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I agree DinD...I'd offer the three first rounders and see what happens.
I'd offer our entire 2012 draft, all of our 2013 draft...AND a ham sandwich if that's what it takes. He's that good.
No, he isn't.
I actually believe Luck has become overrated, and I really like him. He's definitely my top prospect, but no draft prospect in history was that good.
Uh, Vickers? 
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Yep. Maybe McCoy can become a great QB. However, if he doesn't show a lot of improvement by the end of the year, the Browns better be looking at Plan B even if they stick with him for another season. People act like having 2 QBs is a bad thing ...... but it's not. It wasn't bad for the Chargers. It wasn't bad for the 49'ers when they had Montana and Young. Having 2 QBs is only bad when both suck. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Really? even if Colt Lights it up?
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What happens if Luck sucks
Unless he loses an arm between now and next season..simply put he won't. Period. This is akin to asking "what if I win the lottery tomorrow and then in the excitement accidentally leave the gas on the stove on and my house blows up?" Sure it's technically POSSIBLE but umm..yeah not gonna happen.
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or what if we don't get him guys to throw to? Now we got a great QB that has no targets AND we still have the holes.
Pure fallacy. Great QB's (no not "ok" QBs or even "good" QBs but GREAT QBs) make every player on offense that much better. Luck will make MoMass, Cribbs and Little look like the 2nd coming of Jennings, Driver and Nelson. It's simply why QB is so much more important than any other position on the football field in today's game with today's rules. Upgrading the QB position to Luck is equivalent to upgrading 8 other offensive positions through the draft with 1 pick.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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No reason to trade up for Luck when Barkley, Jones, and even Griffin would also be good cheaper options.
Putting Griffin in the same sentence as Luck is equivalent to saying Spergon Wynn is about the same as Joe Montana. One is going to be a 1st ballot HoF, the other will hope to make it in the NFL through his rookie contract.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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No reason to trade up for Luck when Barkley, Jones, and even Griffin would also be good cheaper options.
Putting Griffin in the same sentence as Luck is equivalent to saying Spergon Wynn is about the same as Joe Montana. One is going to be a 1st ballot HoF, the other will hope to make it in the NFL through his rookie contract.
It's unbelievable how much you are jumping the gun. Luck is not God. In fact, I don't think he's a ton better than Barkley and I would rather have Sam Bradford.
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Whole lot of hype for a guy that looks like he has about the same arm as Colt. lol I think half these people paying homage to Luck have never seen him play. I still say Tannehill will end up the best QB out of this class 
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I've only watched a couple Stanford games, but I've never turned off the game thinking "boy, Luck doesn't have a very good arm." I think he can make all the throws, from what I've seen.
That being said, the problem is that people are going to set these ridiculous expectations for him. If he doesn't lead his team to the Super Bowl in his first season, is he a bust? He threw 10 interceptions his first season, is he a bust? That kind of thing.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Luck doesn't have a rocket, but his arm is a lot better than Colt's. And I don't agree at all on Tannehill. I have him as my 5th quarterback and a 2nd or 3rd rounder.
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I don't wanna sound like a jerk, but Kellen Moore isn't even draftable. He's basically Graham Harrell.
Okay. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
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Sorry but he doesn't. I see pretty much identical arm strength. He is somewhere between Dalton and Bradford.
All these reports say he has tremendous arm strenght but I have never seen it displayed. It may be in practice but I just havent seen it in any games.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 10/08/11 09:43 PM.
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Sorry but he doesn't. I see pretty much identical arm strength. He is somewhere between Dalton and Bradford.
Even if that was accurate.
Dalton and Bradford both have supreme arm strength to McCoy...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Here's a question for you Daman... I'm sure you try to be an objective poser. So what do you think Colt does badly?
POSER? Was that a typo or an insult? 
I don't like how he scrambles when there isn't a need. He doesn't do it often, but he does do it. Maybe I'm being too picky on that. Not sure.
For a guy who lives and breaths on accuracy, he misses too often for me.
But what confuses me is that I can't tell if he's putting it where the receiver is supposed to be, but isn't.. I don't suppose that's something I could know if I don't know what's coming.
I don't like that he doesn't throw it more to Robo. I'd like to know the real reason for that. Is there some distrust of Robo, is it not in the game plan to throw to him, or is Robo just not getting open. Again, from watching on TV, they focus on where the ball went, not where it could have gone. So I can't tell. Cracks me up that others seem to think they can given that they can't see where the ball didn't go either  ..
At times he seems indecisive. Or maybe it's just that he doesn't make his decision quick enough. again, not sure which.
To a degree, with all new systems, I'd expect that at some point, we would see him being more decisive as he and the receivers get more and more on the same page. Another reason that time is what's needed.
I don't think that McCoy is perfect., NEVER THOUGHT HE WAS....
He's got work to do. Not sure if he's the guy yet, I just don't think anyone else as fans know that he isn't.
Around here, if a QB doesn't come out from day one and take the opponent apart, he must be a slug.. If that were the case, Elway would have been out of the league in about a year. Montana didn't knock it out of the park from day one.. Young was a Disaster in Tampa.
Bottom line for me is that I don't believe he's had enough time in this system.
One thing for sure, if the FO decides he's not progressing fast enough, you can count on them drafting a QB or getting one from another team somehow (ala favre)
How's that for being a POSER? 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm not saying he'll never be a competant NFL QB, hell noone ever thought Fitzpatrick would be...
And a big part of the WCO is KNOWING what you're going to do, not without thinking about it. So just having time in the system, he should improve..
...Right?
Pretty much if we are in a position to draft a QB high in the first round next year, it means that McCoy hasn't improved over what we have seen so far this first 1/4..
But I'm pretty sure he'll bump up his stuff play towards the end of the season. And regaurdless if we draft a QB next season, will be given a chance to put everyones opinion of him to the test...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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first ballot hall of famer??
Luck? The kid hasnt played a down yet. That is the one of the biggest early jumps to a conclusion ive seen in a while.
Good chance hes going to be a very good starter, but whoa, lets back off that a little.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I havent seen a QB pimped this hard on the board since Brady Quinn.  Way to many variables for me to trade our entire draft for any one player. You would be one injury away from throwing your entire draft down the tubes. No Thanks. When is the last time a QB made the entire season in Cleveland. Now if we only had to move up a couple of spots or were in position to take him at our spot then thats a whole nother scenario. Id prefer to take our lumps with Colt and see what happens next season. When we should be able to add a minimum of 3 quality starters to the roster with our 2 1sts and a 2nd.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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first ballot hall of famer??
Luck? The kid hasnt played a down yet. That is the one of the biggest early jumps to a conclusion ive seen in a while.
Good chance hes going to be a very good starter, but whoa, lets back off that a little.
I THINK he was refering to the Joe Montana/Spergeon Wynn section when he was talking about the HOF...
...I hope...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If McCoy played on another team, half of you guys would be praising McCoy and would be starting threads asking why can't we get a QB like McCoy. Guy is playing poor and on pace to throw for 4000 yards 24 tds and 12 ints.
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If he was on another team I wouldn't be watching his every play... And the one that I keep coming back to is him rolling to the right (vs. Ten) and throwing it to noone... That's not something I'd be begging for 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I assure you that it was nothing more than a typo.
Okay, you listed quite a few negatives there. Now tell me what you like about Colt.
Mourg - I can assure you that I wouldn't be all over Colt. What with his 23rd ranked completion percentage, 29th ranked yards per attempt and 24th ranked passer rating. Not to mention his lack of physical tools. I would have absolutely zero interest in him.
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I agree DinD...I'd offer the three first rounders and see what happens.
I'd offer our entire 2012 draft, all of our 2013 draft...AND a ham sandwich if that's what it takes. He's that good.
No, he isn't.
I actually believe Luck has become overrated, and I really like him. He's definitely my top prospect, but no draft prospect in history was that good.
Jezuz H. Chripes you're right. 
The ham sandwich might be a little too much. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If McCoy played on another team, half of you guys would be praising McCoy and would be starting threads asking why can't we get a QB like McCoy. Guy is playing poor and on pace to throw for 4000 yards 24 tds and 12 ints.
Then again....half of us wouldn't.
The reason we know better than to praise McCoy for pacing 4k yards and a 2:1 TD/INT ratio is because unlike those other half we actually watch the games. We know those are THE most inflated numbers for any QB here, as he hasn't even remotely played up to the image those numbers paint.
We could be in the position to draft a 1st round QB this year. If Colt limps along like this I'd be surprised if we let one of those guys get past us, assuming we're in a spot to get one.
Something that I'm beginning to consider, which I should have considered before, is that Colt doesn't represent this 1st round investment, a guy that a team just has to give a ton of time to. It'd be far easier to cut-bait with him than a 1st round guy.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I agree DinD...I'd offer the three first rounders and see what happens.
I'd offer our entire 2012 draft, all of our 2013 draft...AND a ham sandwich if that's what it takes. He's that good.
I understand hyperboles are kind of your thing but come on.
I really like Landry Jones. He has a very good arm and has nice deep ball accuracy.
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Unless he loses an arm between now and next season..simply put he won't. Period. This is akin to asking "what if I win the lottery tomorrow and then in the excitement accidentally leave the gas on the stove on and my house blows up?" Sure it's technically POSSIBLE but umm..yeah not gonna happen.
Most definitely...Whoever gets this kid is on their way...
Entire draft???...NO...Won't take that simply because we will be high enuff that it won't take the entire draft...We are now hitting an extremely tough part of the schedule...Here on out...And I just don't see this new offense doing anything consistently enuff to win more than 2 or 3 games the rest of the way...An injury or 2 on D and we're tattoed...We've been LUCKY so far...(Pun intended  )
Landry Jones bothers me...Doesn't have enuff of a quick release for me...And I HATE the Oklahoma style of offense...
Barkley...I just don't like the USC pretty boys...He looked HORRID against Arizona State...And that's the only decent defense he's faced this year...
LUCK...I remember Manning at Tennessee back in the day...KNEW he was gonna be the #1 pick in the draft...HATED his happy feet/Pat the ball syndrome...This cat has majorly benefited from having the SAME OC the 1st 10 years in this league...From what I SEE of Luck...He's even BETTER...
Watched the Colorado game last night...This kid is the REAL DEAL...And he is NFL ready NOW...One play he rolled a bit to his left...Under pressure...SQUARED UP and threw a perfect toss 20 yards downfield ACROSS his body...That ain't easy to do and it was SPOT ON...
The entire reason I say we SHOULD go after this kid regardless of what McCoy does here on out is this...Right now...TODAY...He has 3 things going for him that McCoy NEVER will have...Or at least will never have 2 of these 3 things...
1) 6' 4" frame
2) MUCH better arm (Yes he does Deep/Mour)
3) Superior Mechanics
Luck can and WILL suceed in ANY style of offense...WCO...NCO...ECO...SCO...Vertical...
IMO...The team that lucks into this kid will within 2 years be a PERENIAL PLAYOFF TEAM much like Indy and NE...And we've got the ammunition to go get em'...And it won't hurt in the least bit giving up 3 #1's for what will be your TRUE FRANCHISE QB...For 10-15 years ala Manning...
We can still continue to add pieces via both the draft and FA...I have NO DOUBT that Heckert's plan is to go via draft right now and then POUNCE on quality FA's in the next year or 2...None of these Asomugha types but quality FA YOUTH...
Luck with ONE top WR and a quality RT takes this offense to another level...
3 or 4 quality defensive pick-ups and this defense goes beyond respectable...And with LUCK that's all we need...And it CAN be done even without the 3 first rounders the next 2 years...
IF Holmgren knows ANYTHING about a QB...He too is salivating over the thought of Luck in Cleveland...
Go Browns!!!
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Landry Jones bothers me...Doesn't have enuff of a quick release for me...And I HATE the Oklahoma style of offense...
1. He has one of the fastest releases in football.
2. Oklahomas offense forces QBs to make tough throws. It helped Sam Bradford a lot.
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I'm not saying he'll never be a competant NFL QB, hell noone ever thought Fitzpatrick would be...
And a big part of the WCO is KNOWING what you're going to do, not without thinking about it. So just having time in the system, he should improve..
...Right?
Pretty much if we are in a position to draft a QB high in the first round next year, it means that McCoy hasn't improved over what we have seen so far this first 1/4..
But I'm pretty sure he'll bump up his stuff play towards the end of the season. And regaurdless if we draft a QB next season, will be given a chance to put everyones opinion of him to the test...
Bottom line, I think McCoy is too new to rate. so yeah we seem to agree that it's going to take more time. Lots of QB's started out on fire and waned, lots of QB's start out like duds and go on to a fine career. Some are lucky enough to be on good teams and win it all.
The problem I see is that we put too much emphasis on the QB and we don't place enough value on the rest of the team.
The weaker the team as a whole, the more you need a Payton Manning or Drew Brees type leader/winner.
I know that those that think that you can't win it all without a franchise QB will not agree, but it is a team sport right? That kinda says you can't win if all you have is a franchise QB.
Trading the farm for Luck or any unknown when you have that many holes to fill, seems, well, dumb.. JMO.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So how long till we trade for Matt Flynn?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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So how long till we trade for Matt Flynn?
LOL if that's what it takes, I hope it happens tomorrow.
Despite what some might say, I'm not married to McCoy.. if hes the guy,, cool, if not, NEXT.. and I'm perfectly ok with that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Holmgren in Green Bay Drafted Brunell Traded fo Favre - Went to the Super Bowl Holmgren in Seattle Drafted Wallace Traded for Hasselback - Went to the Superbowl Holmgren in Cleveland Drafted McCoy ...? I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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So you're saying we need to drag David Greene out of Honest Eddie's Used Cars and Falafel Hut to play QB for the Browns and we'll go to the Super Bowl?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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No... That's not at all what I was saying... David Greene? Wow... Really..? ...REALLY? I wonder (besides Turk) what percentage of the board remembers who Greene is... Edit: PS... He sells Insurance nowadays... Don't sell the guy short...
Last edited by OSGuy; 10/09/11 03:44 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Holmgren in Green Bay
Drafted Brunell
Traded fo Favre - Went to the Super Bowl
Holmgren in Seattle
Drafted Wallace
Traded for Hasselback - Went to the Superbowl
Holmgren in Cleveland
Drafted McCoy
Traded for Wallace...
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Figured that'd be good for a laugh in these bleak times.
I'll tell you who David Greene is.....He was the last QB the Walrus took with the 85th pick in the draft before Colt went 85th last year.
Let's hope the parallels end there........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Holmgren in Green Bay
Drafted Brunell
Traded fo Favre - Went to the Super Bowl
Holmgren in Seattle
Drafted Wallace
Traded for Hasselback - Went to the Superbowl
Holmgren in Cleveland
Drafted McCoy
Traded for Wallace...
..Crap...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah, I'm hoping the next question isn't "so which team will Holmgren be with when he trades for Colt McCoy?"
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I'd be REALLY surprised if we're not his last go round...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Holmgren in Green Bay
Drafted Brunell
Traded fo Favre - Went to the Super Bowl
Holmgren in Seattle
Drafted Wallace
Traded for Hasselback - Went to the Superbowl
Holmgren in Cleveland
Drafted McCoy
...?
I'm not saying anything, I'm just saying..
If it comes to that, and we get to the Superbowl,, I'd be fine with it. NO problem with it at all and I wouldn't care who the player was either.
Oh, you may remember that Holmgren was with the Packers when they drafted Hassleback.. Just thought you'd like to know that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So Holmgren's ganna go somewhere else, trade for McCoy, and they're ganna lose the SB to Pittsburgh..?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Unless he loses an arm between now and next season..simply put he won't. Period. This is akin to asking "what if I win the lottery tomorrow and then in the excitement accidentally leave the gas on the stove on and my house blows up?" Sure it's technically POSSIBLE but umm..yeah not gonna happen.
Most definitely...Whoever gets this kid is on their way...
And they said that about Sam Bradford. What is the Rams record? Sure, we stole their OC to be our HC but Sam Bradford is still there and was the #1 overall selection from a year ago.
I wouldn't exactly say that the Rams are 'on their way' to anywhere but another high draft selection in April 2012.
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Come on ....
Bradford's been hurt ...... Amendola's hurt ..... Clayton's hurt ...... Their TE is hurt ..... Steven Jackson has been hurt .....
Basically, their offense has been a MASH unit, and their defense, which carried them last year, has been a sieve. They were 12th in scoring defense last year, allowing 20.5 PPG. This year they are 30th in scoring defense, allowing 28.2 PPG.
I thought that Bradford was OK last year .... but again .... that inability to create big plays would have been a worry to me if I were the Rams. (and it probably was a concern, because they changed offensive systems entirely)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,521 |
Nobody said that about Bradford. Nobody rational, anyways. He was viewed as a good college QB with a lot of upside but also several concerns, including the effects of system he played in as well as his fairly major injuries.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Why We SHOULD Trade Up for
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