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Quote:
Come on ....
Bradford's been hurt ...... Amendola's hurt ..... Clayton's hurt ...... Their TE is hurt ..... Steven Jackson has been hurt .....
Basically, their offense has been a MASH unit, and their defense, which carried them last year, has been a sieve. They were 12th in scoring defense last year, allowing 20.5 PPG. This year they are 30th in scoring defense, allowing 28.2 PPG.
And Cleveland has no decent receivers, not a good left side of the O line, needs serious help on defense, ...................but you want to sell the farm to get Luck.
Dude, you make no sense. You excuse the rams and bradford due to the situation, but you're ready to sell everything to get a quarterback. That may or may NOT pan out in the nfl.
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We do have decent receivers.
Somehow our receivers got so much better when worn out old Jake Delhomme player last year.
Look at Massaquoi. He had 36 catches for 483 yards last year. 18 for 277 were in the 5 games in which Delhomme played. So he had 18 catches for 206 yards when any QB not named Jake Delhomme played.
Robiske had 13 of his 29 catches in the 5 games in which Delhomme played.
It's hard for a WR to put up numbers if the QB refuses to throw him the ball. I have seen at least 3 different local reporters, plus the national broadcasters say that receivers are open downfield. That leads me to believe that they are open downfield.
Stuckey was rather consistent no matter which guy was at QB,so that tells me that they all felt comfortable throwing short to the slot guys.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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And........?
Oh. You totally missed the point that not taking care of our problems will only result in yet another qb sucking.
Like I have said before - half of me wants the Browns to get Luck. This surefire, guaranteed, best prospect since Jesus................and put him on this team, or next years team.
Give him 8 games, and people will be calling for his head. Meanwhile, giving up the farm means we didn't address the O line, the receivers, OR the defense.
But at least we'd have a sure fire, can't miss all star at qb, right?
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Legend
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And ..... the QB is more important to the passing game than the receivers are.
If we had drafted Mike Wallace instead of the Steelers, we'd hear "This guy is so fast, why can't he get open?"instead of him getting over 18 yards/catch so far this year for the Steelers.
Receivers cannot catch a ball that is not thrown to them.
You can't have crap at the receiver positions, and I'm not suggesting that ..... but when guys get open for one QB but are "not getting open" for another ..... maybe it's not the receivers.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Come on ....
Bradford's been hurt ...... Amendola's hurt ..... Clayton's hurt ...... Their TE is hurt ..... Steven Jackson has been hurt .....
Uh huh. Sound like excuses to me.
Quote:
Basically, their offense has been a MASH unit, and their defense, which carried them last year, has been a sieve. They were 12th in scoring defense last year, allowing 20.5 PPG. This year they are 30th in scoring defense, allowing 28.2 PPG.
And Steinbach is out, Hillis was out. Cribbs is injured. Massaquoi has been injured. They've all been banged up.
What you're claiming is that it explains an 0-4 start by the Rams and but I'm not buying it.
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Legend
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Quote:
Come on ....
Bradford's been hurt ...... Amendola's hurt ..... Clayton's hurt ...... Their TE is hurt ..... Steven Jackson has been hurt .....
Basically, their offense has been a MASH unit, and their defense, which carried them last year, has been a sieve. They were 12th in scoring defense last year, allowing 20.5 PPG. This year they are 30th in scoring defense, allowing 28.2 PPG.
I thought that Bradford was OK last year .... but again .... that inability to create big plays would have been a worry to me if I were the Rams. (and it probably was a concern, because they changed offensive systems entirely)
In an indirect way, that states that Bradford isn't anything without all the talent surrounding him. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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As a rookie on a crappy team last year (with no receivers) Bradford threw for 3,512 yards, 18 TD's, 15 INT's, and a 60% completion percentage. The Rams finished 7-9.
This year Bradford, despite having a bye this past week, has been sacked more than any other QB in the league.
The Rams are horrible, Bradford is not the problem. If they got the #1 pick they will trade it and help improve their crappy team.
Also, how does it look to the fans when you say, "Remember that guy we drafted #1 overall, paid $50 million in guaranteed money, and told you he was a franchise quarterback. Well he's not. Sorry."
You miss on that pick everyone is fired.
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Quote:
As a rookie on a crappy team last year (with no receivers) Bradford threw for 3,512 yards, 18 TD's, 15 INT's, and a 60% completion percentage.
In Colt McCoy's first 16 starts, he's on pace for 3,413 yards, 16 TD's, 16INT's and a 59.6% completion percentage.
And I'd argue we're as bad, if not worse around Colt that the Rams were around Bradford last year.
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i really hope we don't trade for Luck...im not willing to give up the future for a guy who may or may not work out...your talking give up like atleast 2 years worth of 1st and 2nd rd picks...maybe even 3rds....thats way too high of a price to pay....
The Ravens and Steelers didn't move up to get Ben or Flacco...they stayed pat and drafted them....
Heckert needs to continue what he is doing and just go BPA at our two first rders next year....stand pat and take whos there...don't reach...if we get a sweetheart deal to trade down then do it...otherwise stand pat, don't reach, and take BPA
we need talent at multiple positions on this team....we don't have the luxary to taking a QB and giving up that much....if we took Luck and he don't work out, you have set this franchise back 4-5 years....im not willing to take that gamble....
Thankfully i don't see Holmgren giving up the farm for Luck...no way...the asking price was too high for Bradford, and it will be too high for Luck...holmgren will not give up two years worth of picks for one guy...no way he does that...he is smarter then that.
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I also think the asking price for moving up in the top 10, even worse the #1 is going to go up now with a rookie CBA deal, as trading to get rid of the high cost contract of the #1, is not a factor anymore.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Quote:
As a rookie on a crappy team last year (with no receivers) Bradford threw for 3,512 yards, 18 TD's, 15 INT's, and a 60% completion percentage.
In Colt McCoy's first 16 starts, he's on pace for 3,413 yards, 16 TD's, 16INT's and a 59.6% completion percentage.
And I'd argue we're as bad, if not worse around Colt that the Rams were around Bradford last year.
You also have to throw in that Colt plays in a division with the Steelers, Ravens, and Bengals while Bradford gets to play the Cardinals, 49'ers and Seahawks twice a year. The division looks improved, but it's still nowhere near the caliber of the AFC North, which does not have a team below .500 right now, and is the only division that can boast that.
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Quote:
Quote:
Come on ....
Bradford's been hurt ...... Amendola's hurt ..... Clayton's hurt ...... Their TE is hurt ..... Steven Jackson has been hurt .....
Basically, their offense has been a MASH unit, and their defense, which carried them last year, has been a sieve. They were 12th in scoring defense last year, allowing 20.5 PPG. This year they are 30th in scoring defense, allowing 28.2 PPG.
I thought that Bradford was OK last year .... but again .... that inability to create big plays would have been a worry to me if I were the Rams. (and it probably was a concern, because they changed offensive systems entirely)
In an indirect way, that states that Bradford isn't anything without all the talent surrounding him.
Can't be,, everyone knows that a 1st round, Must have QB like Bradford can carry the entire team on his back,.., even if he's injured 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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OP
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i really hope we don't trade for Luck...im not willing to give up the future for a guy who may or may not work out...your talking give up like atleast 2 years worth of 1st and 2nd rd picks...maybe even 3rds....thats way too high of a price to pay....
Who says anything about "Future"???
What you're talking about there is moving to #1 from below the 10 spot...
This football team STINKS right now...We will be WAY under the 10 spot come draft day...The cost to go to 1 won't be anywhere near what u r insinuating...And this give up the ENTIRE draft thing is crazy "Y"...Won't be that much cause we won't be beyond 10...I'm lookin' at FIVE...Or BELOW...We suck THAT damn bad...
Go Browns!!!
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It's not just about where your moving FROM...
If you're Carolina or St Louis, ad you know you're not going to take Luck, it doesn't matter if someone is moving up from #2... they are still going to be "selling the farm" based on what they are aquiring...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I also think the asking price for moving up in the top 10, even worse the #1 is going to go up now with a rookie CBA deal, as trading to get rid of the high cost contract of the #1, is not a factor anymore.
Again...U guys r looking at us having to move up to 1 from beyond the 10 spot...
We ain't that good...
And I believe u guys thinking we will be 6-10 or 8-8 are dreaming beyond dreams right now...Our schedule here on out is AUTROCIOUS,,,I will be shocked if we are better than 4-12...Which is nowhere near a 10 pick...
Hell the way Atlanta stinks up the joint we may just have the 4 and 10 picks..."LUCKY" Ammunition... 
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
It's not just about where your moving FROM...
If you're Carolina or St Louis, ad you know you're not going to take Luck, it doesn't matter if someone is moving up from #2... they are still going to be "selling the farm" based on what they are aquiring...
Carolina and St'. Louis are the DREAM to have the #1 pick...
No QB need...And don't think for a minute that they won't cream themselves with an offer of a Top 7 pick and a Top 25 pick (Atlanta ends up 9-7ish)...AND a Top 15 next year...
Go Browns!!!
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with the way Carolina is playing, I doubt they keep losing all their games. they are going to win some of these close games as Cam understands more when to go for broke and when to play it safe (no, it's not all on him, but he's the main reason they have been in these games)
either way though, i think we should cool it on trading up for Luck. i don't think holmgren/heckert is going to outbid some of these other teams.
#gmstrong
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If we decide Colt isn't the guy, and go Quarterback in Round 1, I'd rather stay where we are and take Matt Barkley, who I think is going to be just as good, if not better than Luck.
If we go QB ...
1a - Matt Barkley
1b - Justin Blackmon or Michael Floyd
If we DON'T go QB ...
1a - Dre Kirkpatrick
1b - Blackmon or Floyd
Obviously this all depends on where we're picking, but this is the route I'd like to go (realistically).
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If we decide Colt isn't the guy, and go Quarterback in Round 1, I'd rather stay where we are and take Matt Barkley, who I think is going to be just as good, if not better than Luck.
This thinking just boggles my mind. Have you WATCHED Luck play??? Let's put it this way...for shiz and giggles, if Luck were magically transported and plopped onto an average NFL team, here is where I'd rank him against current NFL starting QBs right NOW:
1) Peyton Manning
2) Tom Brady
3) Aaron Rodgers
4) Drew Brees
5) Andrew Luck
6) Philip Rivers
7) Ben Roethlisberger
8) Matt Stafford
9) Matt Ryan
10) Matt Schaub
Give him 2-3 years in the league and I think he COULD be top 2 on that list.
We've been trying scrubs, castoffs, also-rans, and late round fliers at QB for long enough now. We've had 8 QBs start at least 10 games since our return in 99. Eight! Ranked by starts:
1) Tim Couch - 59 starts - Round 1 pick (best QB we've had here since the return)
2) Derek Anderson - 34 starts - Round 6 pick (2nd best QB we've had)
3) Charlie Frye - 19 starts - Round 3 pick (A feel good story for a late round flier)
4) Colt McCoy - 12 starts - Round 3 pick (A feel good story for a late round flier)
4) Kelly Holcomb - 12 starts - UDFA
4) Brady Quinn - 12 starts - Round 1 pick (Shouldn't have been drafted that high)
7) Trent Dilfer - 11 starts
8) Jeff Garcia - 10 starts
It's time to end the litany of garbage and go get a REAL, bonafide, Top 10 in the NFL type QB. Barkley and Jones are good but they aren't in the same zip code as Luck. If they are our options then I'd rather just stick with McCoy because if we draft one of them, they will fail. They'll fail because we don't have enough talent around them yet, and to succeed those guys will need more talent/help around them. Then we'll get to hear everyone talk about how that's "proof" that you don't build around a QB. On the flip side if we draft Luck, he instantly makes everyone on our offense competent all by himself.
"Average" or "good" QBs need a good OLine, good RB, good WR and a good defense to look good and go to the playoffs.
"Great" QBs make average WRs, OLine, RBs and defenses look good and lead their team to the playoffs.
Option 1 requires adding about 10 more pieces to our current roster via the draft.
Option 2 requires trading some draft picks and making ONE pick.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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We have 2 wins right now.
We should have beat the Bengals. We should do so next time we play them.
We play the Jaguars and Rams back to back. They have a combined 1 win between them.
Seattle averages a whopping 18.8 PPG. St Louis checks in at 11.5, and Jacksonville with an astonishing 11.8 PPG. Even Arizona and Pittsburgh are in the bottom 10 in the league in scoring.
We should beat Seattle, The Rams, and Jaguars. We should beat Cincinnati. That gives us 6 wins. I think that we'll beat Pittsburgh at least once. Their offense plays into our defensive strength.... poor pass blocking against a solid pass rush.
Oakland and Houston could go either way. It depends on which of their teams show up. Same with the 49'ers.
That leaves 2 against Baltimore.
I really don't see any way we don't win 5 or 6 games on the season, at the very least.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
"Great" QBs make average WRs, OLine, RBs and defenses look good and lead their team to the playoffs
What is your opinion of Michael Vick
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You didn't ask me ..... but I'll answer anyway. Michael Vick is a victim of his coaching staff and their over-estimation of his abilities. Reid is in love with sending 5 receivers into every pattern, and he expects Vick to miraculously evade every rusher that comes free. Teams are overloading their 5 man blocking scheme, and running delayed blitzes, and it's getting Vick beat half to death. I really loathe and despise the 5 wide look on any team. (especially ours, and absolutely on 3rd/4th and short) I see no value in sending the RB out wide pre-snap over keeping him in the backfield where he is a blocker who is also a threat to swing out as a receiver. I see a lot of teams doing this, and it makes no sense to me. They are getting their QBs killed ... even with the rules that protect the QB at almost all costs.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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What is your opinion of Michael Vick
I think he's an average at-best QB who happens to be a freak physical athlete. Sure sometimes he makes things out of nothing...and the man is MADE for BSPN highlights, but in the end he's just not all that.
QBs can make an OLine look better in many ways
1) Being able to read defenses pre and post snap. Guys like Manning and Brady are GREAT at this.
2) Knowing exactly where and when to go with a ball based on #1. Doing this means they're getting the ball out quicker so the line doesn't have to protect as long and on time and in rhythm so the linemen get a feel for that "mental clock".
3) Having pocket presence. No line is going to protect for 5-6 seconds on EVERY throw. Guys are going to get pressure. The good QBs know how to step up into the pocket, take a side step and shift the pocket etc to avoid the rush while keeping their head up to buy that added second to make the right read and throw.
Granted Philly's OLine isn't good to begin with but I don't think Vick particularly excels at any of those three to help them out either.
I like to think Colt is fine with #1. I think he doesn't trust his WRs enough or his arm enough to make the throws his brain tells him he needs to make to accomplish #2. I think he's pretty bad at #3.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Yes, I've watched Luck.
I've watched Barkley.
I don't see why Luck is considered SO much better.
You're putting Luck in the Top 5 QB's in the NFL, without EVER taking a snap?
I don't understand THAT thinking.
If we're picking #1, yeah we take Luck. But if you give me the option of trading away a boatload of picks for Luck, and taking Barkley plus other key pieces, I'm taking Barkley every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
My question is, have you watched the two QB's play, or are you just listening to the media hype regarding Luck? Because Barkley is every bit the QB Luck is.
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