I'm not talking about 40-times. I don't care about them whatsoever. Blackmon doesn't play with great speed. He isn't explosive in and out of his breaks and doesn't have that high of upside. He's another receiver who doesn't have the speed to run deep and make big plays. This is, of course, all just my opinion.
Torrey Smith is a guy I wanted last year, and he is exactly what the Browns need on offense.
Yeah, but the issue being the Browns don't run a vertical scheme. The WCO is all intermediate routes, 7-15 yards downfield.
I suppose you could work in some deeper routes if you drafted a speed guy like Smith but he doesn't really fit in to the offensive scheme the Browns are running.
The bigger, more physical receivers tend to be what you look for on the outside. Guys with good hands who can go over the middle are much more valuable when everything is 3 step and on occasion 5. The ball comes out so quickly in the WCO that a vertical threat can just get lost in the wash.
I think a lot of people are buying into the stereotypical WCO too much. The Packers run a WCO but primarily utilize a down-field passing attack. The Eagles also run a WCO, but their two best receivers are speedy, vertical players.
Once the Browns add vertical threats, they will go deep more often. Right now the talent isn't there for that.
And that's kind of my point.....Green Bay doesn't have a deep threat ala Smith. They have a bunch of big, physical receivers.
Jennings is more of a technician, in terms of his route running ability and hands. He has pretty average speed for a #1 WR (in the 4.5 range). Nelson is a Blackmon type. A big, physical receiver who can make catches in traffic / up in the air. Finley is a big, physical freak of a TE. James Jones is another bigger body who lacks top end speed but has a strong frame and the ability to go over the middle. Driver is simply a possession receiver at this point in his career.
Jackson is an anomaly among WCO teams but that has more to do with Vick's arm IMO than it has to do with wether or not you need those kind of guys in a true WCO system. Jackson is pretty average in short yardage situations because he's so small. That and McCoy doesn't have the arm of Vick (or Rodgers), so that certainly mitigates some of the effect of a deep threat in the Browns system.
I'm not saying the Browns couldn't use a fast WR but passing on someone like Blackmon in hopes of finding a DeSean Jackson type seems a little silly IMO. Blackmon looks like the prototypical outside receiver in a WCO. Great hands, physical, great over the middle, great in short yardage and the ability to make things happen in the red zone.
I don't think he's a perfect prospect but IMO he would make a huge impact on this offense. It's probably all moot though. The Browns are likely to win another game or two which will probably slot them too far down to have a chance at him.
Comparing Nelson to Blackmon is an insult to Nelson's speed.
I still think people are buying into the WCO stereotype way too much. It's not all about having YAC wideouts. The key is to have balance between vertical and underneath weapons.
And I am not suggesting the Browns should pass on Blackmon in hopes of finding a speedster. I am suggesting they pass on him because he isn't good enough to be a top ten pick, IMO. If he had better speed and explosiveness, I would be all over him.
Kendall Wright has something unique about him. He is the only WR that I have seen that can read a secondary and attack the holes. He does it all of the damn time, it's just hard to notice.
I don't think he's a perfect prospect but IMO he would make a huge impact on this offense. It's probably all moot though. The Browns are likely to win another game or two which will probably slot them too far down to have a chance at him.
This is my thought too. (A moot point as was green this past Draft)
I find it funny that some are questioning Blackmon's speed and yet I've seen him out run many a defender(s) for long gainers and scores ... He's a play maker!
Quote: Comparing Nelson to Blackmon is an insult to Nelson's speed.
So you think Blackmon is slower than the 4.62 Nelson clocked in his pro day?
His best time at the combine was 4.51.
I think you're severely underestimating Blackmon's speed.
He's not a burner but neither is Nelson.
I agree. Just because you're a long strider doesn't mean your not fast. Blackmon is PLENTY fast. He's going to be a star in the NFL. He's a better version of Dez Bryant. Very similar to him but better in every regard.
if we keep Hillis.. which I think we should.. and then get a guy like Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) in the mid/later rounds, we could actually use one of our firsts for a top flight WR like Blackmon.
Quote: Sorry. Kendall Wright plays for Baylor, Jarius Wright plays for Arkansas, Juron Criner plays for Arizona and Brian Quick plays for Appalachian State.
Thanks, saves me a lot of time as I try to research these guys. I have seen Wright and admit I am a little intrigued by him.
Arkansas has 2 good Wr's and I can never seem to keep them straight. Kind of like the Boise receivers last year.
I think you have mentioned Criner before. His name is familiar but I can't say that I have seen him play.
I live near App St country but can't say that I know anything about Quick.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: Comparing Nelson to Blackmon is an insult to Nelson's speed.
So you think Blackmon is slower than the 4.62 Nelson clocked in his pro day?
His best time at the combine was 4.51.
I think you're severely underestimating Blackmon's speed.
He's not a burner but neither is Nelson.
I agree. Just because you're a long strider doesn't mean your not fast. Blackmon is PLENTY fast. He's going to be a star in the NFL. He's a better version of Dez Bryant. Very similar to him but better in every regard.
It'd be hard to be a better physically gifted prospect than Bryant, but it'd be equally as hard to be as emotionally bat-chit-crazy as Bryant as well.
Note to self: Don't draft any WR's who have the last name "Bryant" because they are all freakin' Nutz!
Blackmon may not have quite the physical tools of Bryant, but he's not the headcase either.
And........OH!........I didn't know there was a draft thread here in the tailgate!
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
I wouldn't mind seeing DeCastro in a Browns uni. He's the guy I'm sort of hanging my hat on. Every time I watch Stanford he stands out, something hard to do when playing on the oline. Some people at the Browns bar today were discussing getting Kalil and the DeCastro with our two picks. Thoughts on Kalil moving to RT?
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
I was watching a Stanford game, I don't remember which one, and the announcer said that DeCastro was the best guard he'd ever seen in college football.
I'd say that's worth a first round pick, but just not for us.
Quote: I'm really not a big Blackmon fan. I don't think he's explosive enough or fast enough to be a stud in the NFL. I think he can be an Anquan Boldin type guy, but not elite.
And there's no way I'm drafting Boldin in the top ten.
Blackmon is absolutely the #1 receiver in the 2012 NFL draft. I'd compare him to Larry Fitzgerald. He's going to be a keeper and clearly a #1 receiving threat on any team he goes to and he'll be able to go deep too!
That being said, he probably won't be available and I'm not convinced that either Alshon Jeffry or Michael Floyd will be the next Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson. Maybe others will think so, but I'm not one of them.
I'd like to see us get OL help, DeCastro might be the best guard to come out since Iupati and a can't miss selection. It'll be fun trying to figure out where he'd go in the draft and seeing if we could nab him and maybe Oklahoma State's Adcock in the third, although 2 years ago, SF got both Mike Iupati (17th pick) & Antony Davis (11th pick) in the first round. We see the success that they're having, two years in.
Quote: I wouldn't mind seeing DeCastro in a Browns uni. He's the guy I'm sort of hanging my hat on. Every time I watch Stanford he stands out, something hard to do when playing on the oline. Some people at the Browns bar today were discussing getting Kalil and the DeCastro with our two picks. Thoughts on Kalil moving to RT?
I've watched him several times this year. He looks like your typical great USC tackle, hehe. If we were running a power running system I probably wouldn't like him as much as a RT, but if we plan on running a purer version of the WCO, then I'd be fine with him. He doesn't look as powerful as I'd want out of my RT. I think he's more of a pure LT. I don't think I'd want to spend our very first pick on a RT, not when there are so many other impact guys out there as early as we'll be picking.
As for DeCastro, yeah, he would look great in Brown and Orange, wouldn't he.
If McCoy keeps getting better, and a team decides they just gotta have Barkley, I'd be happy moving down and acquiring more picks. If that were to happen, then I might not mind spending a couple of 1st rounders on offensive linemen, just so long as we can get a real playmaker with our first 1st rounder.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: I was watching a Stanford game, I don't remember which one, and the announcer said that DeCastro was the best guard he'd ever seen in college football.
I'd say that's worth a first round pick, but just not for us.
DeCastro is a beast - second best lineman I've ever watched in College (after Joe Thomas). I'd absolutely take him in the first round (he's probably not top 10 because of position, but easily in the 10-15 range).
Quote: and a team decides they just gotta have Barkley, I'd be happy moving down and acquiring more picks.
Seems like Barkley will be gone before our pick.
Quite possibly, but remember what the back end of our schedule looks like. If the Fish keep on doing what they are doing, there's a very strong chance they'll pass us by.
This is WAY too early to predict accurately, but assuming the Colts take Luck, many of the teams in front of us (as of right now) already have QB's.
Vikings: Ponder Panthers: Newton Jags: Gabbert (yeah, I know, but still..) Rams: Bradford Cards: Kolb (yeah, I know, again, but still..)
That kinda leaves the Redskins.
So there's a chance it could play out that way. I'm not suggesting it will, just that it's a scenario where I'd be very interested in dropping down so that we could get a RT and maybe even an elite guard as well as another playmaker.
It's all kinda academic at this point.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Yeah it is...And if we keep getting these MEANINGLESS wins we won't see any QB or Blackmon or Tackle...AGAIN we're finding ways to screw up the future of this team via the draft...
DEEP...You're absolutely right on this WCO thang...We don't have the weapons to be throwing downfield right now...And QB is one of em'...
I'm getting a sinking feeling we're gonna be stuck with McCoy again next year...He'll put one great game together here on out and we'll win one more because we catch a team that can't get out of their way that given Sunday...6-10 won't get us anywhere near within QB striking distance...
Blackmon will go to one of Carolina or the Rams...
Might as well just go Claiborne and Burfict and beef the D up...Cause we ain't outscoring anyone anytime soon...We're doing our best imitation of "Screwin' the Pooch" as far as a REAL QB is concerned...
Round 2 guys???
Jenkins DE (Mitchell will never cut it)
What do u guys know about these 2 Safeties???...Need one of those too...
Quote: if we keep Hillis.. which I think we should.. and then get a guy like Isaiah Pead (Cincinnati) in the mid/later rounds, we could actually use one of our firsts for a top flight WR like Blackmon.
IMO if Hillis leaves it's because he gets a better offer and decides to take it. We aren't simply going to tell Hillis he can walk. We'll tag him. Whether it is a 1st round tender or a 2rd round tender is up for debate.
I suppose if we tag him with the 2nd it is more or less telling him we wouldn't mind the pick. I think there is a good chance a few teams might be willing to do that. I doubt anybody would give up a 1st.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
And beefing up the D is a quicker way to staying in games since the D is pretty close to being pretty darn good.
I wouldn't mind trading down if someone wanted to make a move as long as it isn't a giant drop like last year....say 4-7 slots to pick up a 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder.
If we do that we are looking at corners/safties, backers, O-line, and 2nd tier receivers and backs.
I'd actually be pretty good with that. Getting foundation type players isn't a bad thing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
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Thanks.
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