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Please answer this without regard to any personal feelings on Tebow the person. Not sure about how similar this offense is to what he ran at Florida. From what I have seen in video breakdowns and such this seems more like the Texas offense from the Vince Young days. However, it brings up an intriguing question that many of us have argued over in recent years. Can an option-based offense work in the NFL? Several questions to answer: 1. Can a QB withstand the physical abuse that a RB typically takes? QBs have to stay relatively healthier than other positions because they need to direct the offense, throw the ball, etc. They can least afford to have health issues to try to mask. 2. Will defenses be able to adjust and shut down an option attack with the quicker defenses in the NFL? It took a few months, but they adjusted to the wildcat to where it can only really be run as a pure change-up now. Will the same thing happen to the Broncos? Always the biggest critique of the option in the NFL is that with the bigger, faster, stronger athletes that once DCs figured out a scheme of assignments, the option would die. 3. Can an option QB throw it enough to keep the defense honest? This plays into question #2 and is very important. If a QB can figure out when to throw the ball and how often to do it, those defensive assignments might get skewed. 4. With particular interest to the Broncos (since they are trying it first), if Tebow gets injured for a series or a game, then what is their backup plan? Orton and Quinn are ill-equipped to run the style of offense that they are dedicating themselves to. So, if Tebow gets hurt, EVERYTHING changes. That seems like a recipe for disaster right now. Any way about it, I am interested in seeing how it plays out and with as bad as the Broncos are, just having generic interest in them this year should be considered a success. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/721523...d-option-attackQuote:
NFL teams aren't used to preparing to stop an option-style offense. But that's just what the Kansas City Chiefs are faced with for Sunday's matchup against Tim Tebow's Denver Broncos.
Running an offense similar to one in which he excelled at Florida, Tebow generally has three options after taking the snap: throw it downfield, pitch it to Willis McGahee or one of the other running backs, or simply keep the ball himself and scamper downfield.
“ You got a quarterback running the option and that makes it a triple threat. ”
-- Chiefs coach Todd Haley
It didn't work very well two weeks ago in a 45-10 loss to Detroit, when the Broncos were still trying to figure out what they were doing. But it worked much better last week.
Befuddling a stingy Raiders defense, Tebow managed to pass for 124 yards and two touchdowns while also running for 118 yards. The attention that Oakland paid him created holes for McGahee, who ran for 163 yards and two scores in the 38-24 victory.
When asked if Tebow's read-option offense can be sustainable in the NFL, Broncos coach John Fox said Monday that he regularly faced something similar when he first was the Carolina Panthers' coach.
"I've spent a lot of time in the NFC South, and we competed against the Atlanta Falcons when they had Michael Vick. Call it what you like, it was that quarterback having the ability to run that creates havoc on defenses because they don't count that guy as a runner," Fox said.
Still, Fox admitted that this type of offensive attack hasn't been tried in the NFL "to the exact level where we're kind of at right now."
By putting the ball in McGahee's belly, then deciding whether to hand it off or keep it and run it himself, Tebow looked as if he were running the Gators' offense again.
"It's not an option offense. It's still a pro-style offense," McGahee insisted Wednesday, but then added: "Whatever it takes to win. If that's what we got to do, then we're going to do it."
Chiefs coach Todd Haley said Wednesday that the Broncos' offense is similar to the wildcat formation that is in vogue, with one significant difference: Tebow can throw the ball, too, despite what his critics say.
"You got a quarterback running the option," Haley said, "and that makes it a triple threat."
Fox said Monday that Denver is trying to put Tebow into a position where he can succeed.
"We're asking a lot, not just of Tim, but our entire offense -- the coaching staff, everybody involved," Fox said. "We've kind of grown it as we've grown with Tim. There is no question that we are looking for balance in the run and the pass. We're probably leaning a little bit more on the run right now. We have to improve in the pass game because in this league, you have to be two-dimensional, not one-dimensional, and it's something that I'm sure he'll grow, we'll grow, in time."
Chiefs veteran linebacker Derrick Johnson said Wednesday he hasn't faced an option-style offense since his college days at Texas.
"That's definitely a college game plan when you do so much option," he said. "However you can get a win. It may not be the traditional way, standing in the pocket, delivering, you know, certain routes and all that stuff. As long as you win, it doesn't really matter."
Figuring out how to stop it is another matter entirely.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
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I think it's like the Wildcat. Right now teams don't know how to prepare for it, but when they figure it out it will not work at all.
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There's a reason teams don't run the option or the wing-T in the NFL. It's been proven that at best they're each a gimmick offense that can work in spots, but not as an entire offense. NFL defenses are able to defend them very well.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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I personally think they can do it.. NFL teams won't be ready for it either.
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Quote:
Can an option-based offense work in the NFL?
Yes
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Several questions to answer:
1. Can a QB withstand the physical abuse that a RB typically takes? QBs have to stay relatively healthier than other positions because they need to direct the offense, throw the ball, etc. They can least afford to have health issues to try to mask.
I think this is probably the biggest issue but if you have athletes like Tebow running it I don't think it's a huge issue. The way to counter it is to have three maybe even four QBs that ran this offense in college successfully on the roster and commit to running this offense full-time no matter the QB.
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2. Will defenses be able to adjust and shut down an option attack with the quicker defenses in the NFL? It took a few months, but they adjusted to the wildcat to where it can only really be run as a pure change-up now. Will the same thing happen to the Broncos? Always the biggest critique of the option in the NFL is that with the bigger, faster, stronger athletes that once DCs figured out a scheme of assignments, the option would die.
No I don't think so. There are actually more possibilities per play in this offense than your typical pro set. Defenses almost have to commit to stopping the run (either QB or RB) and you're going to see a lot of man on the outside without a great deal of over the top help. You may have to actually draft WRs high and get guys who win one on one matchups. Big, physical freaks that will pressure having man coverage on the outside.
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3. Can an option QB throw it enough to keep the defense honest? This plays into question #2 and is very important. If a QB can figure out when to throw the ball and how often to do it, those defensive assignments might get skewed.
You can't have a guy like Cribbs run this offense because he truely cannot throw the football. You have to have a guy like Terrell Pryor, Vince Young or many others that can do it at least at an OK level.
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4. With particular interest to the Broncos (since they are trying it first), if Tebow gets injured for a series or a game, then what is their backup plan? Orton and Quinn are ill-equipped to run the style of offense that they are dedicating themselves to. So, if Tebow gets hurt, EVERYTHING changes. That seems like a recipe for disaster right now.
Agreed. Not sure why they haven't picked up or traded for a guy who could run it in a pinch. It's probably because they're not sure this is going to work themselves.
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Any way about it, I am interested in seeing how it plays out and with as bad as the Broncos are, just having generic interest in them this year should be considered a success.
I am too. I have been watching every Broncos offensive possession this year with Tebow under center. I don't count myself as a Tebowmaniac per se but I do think this offense will work in the NFL. I'm more interested in it from a chess perspective.
I said two years ago that we'd see a half dozen teams running this offense five years from now and I think we're still headed that way.
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The way to counter it is to have three maybe even four QBs that ran this offense in college successfully on the roster and commit to running this offense full-time no matter the QB.
That's about the only way. If you watch a team like Air Force, the only way to defend that offense is to hit the qb on every play. It will take a beast of a qb to get hit by NFL linemen that often. And you better have another qb or two to spot him.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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NOPE! Can't work! Will Never Work! The Only thing that will work, is run it up the middle to your fourth string RB on every first down.
Take a 7 step drop from the shotgun for a sack on 2nd down.
On third down throw an almost intercepted incomplete pass to the sideline at the first down marker.
And Never look to the left side!  ... The stuff above is sarcasm, jest, a joke as to how the Browns don't try new things... Some Browns official before the start of the regular season ruled out running the wildcat formation this year. I think anything that works, Option, shovel passes, mis-direction, screens, wide pitches, sweeps, (run and shoot), 5 wide receivers, I fomation, ... Anything! An offense in the NFL should be able to do just about everything, every formation, it is the NFL. 
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Do I think you can line up and run option left, option right, every play the way some college teams do? No, I don't think that will work very long. I do think that some elements of the option could be included and it could work, more than a gimmick like the wildcat, if you have the people to run it. One of the big problems with the wildcat was that it required replacing the QB with either a mobile QB or a RB which immediately tipped off the defense to look for something different. In the end, in the NFL, you have to keep defenses off balance to have continued success so if they can work it into an overall scheme that still has enough diversity in the play calling to keep defenses off balance, then I suppose it could work.
yebat' Putin
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Can it work? - Yes
Any offense, properly run can work. However this is the NFL and this lends itself to a more important question:
WOULD IT LAST? Nope. This is the NFL where the best of the best play and get paid for it. Unless you have an unending stream of talented players like a college program does, the option will doom you to failure. For example. Tebow gets injured. Now who runs the option? Orton? Quinn? Now say one of them gets hurt?..Now, you truly have a debacle on your hands. You want to open up Moreno and whomever your other running backs are to blindsided hits to someone like Polamalu, Willis or Suggs? Yeah, they wont last too long. The talent on your roster would be so diluted by seasons end, that it would be embarrassing.
An NFL team that knows you are running the option would beat the crap out of your backfield and you'd be paying a lot of money for players who wont be on the field..
As an occasional gimmick? Sure! As the bread and butter for an NFL offense. Sorry! You'd be in for a long long season.
"Behold! The only thing greater than yourself!"
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j/c
Heldawg hit on the most interesting debate in all of this discussion (to me at least)
can the OC for the Broncos keep developing enough wrinkles and changes to the plays to keep the defense off-balance.
Heldawg thinks yes, that there will be more options per play (my counter argument would be that the plays themselves need to vary more than they have so far or the defenses will still be able to cut things off).
now, if you start running your counter-treys, off tackles, scissor-runs, etc. all that have an additonal QB-option off of them, then it could really open things up (but also open up your QB to get hit on every play as defenders would have the argument that they never know if he has the ball).
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Can it work?
I don't know but I certainly hope not. If I want to watch option football I'll go watch a highschool game. Or Airforce vs Navy. Neither of which hold any appeal to me. I watch pro football to watch vertical passing games (hard to do as a Browns fan).
I despise the option, the spread option, the triple option etc... It's three card Monty, with a football. I find it extremely boring to watch.
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Quote:
Can it work?
I despise the option, the spread option, the triple option etc... It's three card Monty, with a football. I find it extremely boring to watch.
Ouch.
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It can work and is already showing it can.
It's going to work even better when Tebow settles in and starts throwing better and not aiming.....he passed pretty good at Florida. Once he feels the coach is 100% behind him, the throws will improve. Like any young QB, they have to get over being afraid of making a mistake.
As for the pounding.....sure, it will take a qb who can deal with that, like Tebow....the guy is as big as any power back or TE. Put him in a option situation where he can pick and choose, he isn't having to break through the line like a Hillis...he can toss it or take off if DBs and backers turn to cover.
Right now Fox is learning what he needs to do since he has Tebow. Once he does, the Broncos will be a team to deal with.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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How else is he ganna win a SB MVP? 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
How else is he ganna win a SB MVP?
Exactly! 
Look...the guy isn't pretty but I don't care who you are, you can't tell me having a QB who can rush for 100 yards and throw for a couple of TD's isn't a player you can work with.
If Colt McCoy did that this week this place would erupt and call him the greatest ever.
Tell me I am wrong.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You're wrong. 1. That's surprisingly easy 2. It feels good to boot!
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Quote:
Look...the guy isn't pretty but I don't care who you are, you can't tell me having a QB who can rush for 100 yards and throw for a couple of TD's isn't a player you can work with.
I tend to agree with you.
But Vick is a prime example.
If You become to reliant on the run Teams with speed can spy you.
Just speed, doesnt even take much talent.
The way our D used to shadow Vick under Crennel.
He will have to master the pocket work also. I dont think you can win a SB with just the option.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Quote:
Quote:
Can it work?
I despise the option, the spread option, the triple option etc... It's three card Monty, with a football. I find it extremely boring to watch.
Ouch.
Nothing personal. ;-)
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I personally love watching Georgia Tech in the ACC. It's fun because it's different from everyone else and it gives DC's in the conference something else to plan towards.
I have always felt that one of the best offenses that could be run in college is if you get 2 H-Backs along with a QB who are all spread-option-QBs and you can run sweeps, reverses, screens, etc. all that have the option of a pass downfield. The play could start with the zone-read w/ the main QB and RB and then the 2 HBacks could be in motion or block.
It would be alot of fun to watch for sure (to me at least).
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3 close wins
1 ugly blowout loss
I'm going to make a point to watch the Jets game this Thursday. Should be interesting.
It's a shame that the Broncos lost both their main RBs (like us) because it looked like the timing on those read options was really getting clean.
But I still think they'll continue to do what they do and I'll be watching.
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Thursday night is interesting because with a short week to prepare it makes it even tougher on the defense. There's a chance that McGahee is able to play in that game, so we shall see.
Great that it's a national Thursday night game though. I'm interested to see how creative the offense is (or if they are just doing the same basics over and over again, which I think DCs would catch onto).
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I think they could be very successful (although not this year yet). They would be the only team in the NFL running it, which alone would make it hard to prepare for. It marginalizes some of the D's players (ie cover corners and a DE). It is much more physical than anything being run in the NFL today. On the flip side, if they get behind big early, in most cases they are done.
To run it right though you would need to get better run blocking linemen (cheaper than the great pass blocking tackles), a couple more read-option QB's (again cheap, I am thinking you could get Thomas from Oregon in the 3rd round), and more RB's (a big bruiser ball carrying FB type and if they could get LeMichael James). You would never need to take a high pick on a WR. QB, or LT since you wouldn't run a typical offense. On top of that, you would likely be able to get your QB and RB's cheaper since no one else would want your system guys. This would theoretically leave you able to go all in on D through the draft/Free Agency.
I think this could actually work, but ONLY if you are the one team running it. As soon as two teams start competing for your guys and running the option it fails.
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It is interesting to see no matter what. Now what can make it work is the fact noone else in the NFL is doing it, so teams arent going to spend a lot of time getting ready for a defense they will only see once a year.
If it works and they want to really invest in it. Go out and pick up a vince young next year. Add a Pat White. If you are gonna be a 90% run team, better load up with guys that can run it and I think you will need 2 or 3 of these running signal callers. You will also need to really load up on RBs as well.
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I just don't think so long term. The league is set up to be a passing game and the teams are building to do just that. With the pass interference rules the way they are, teams are stupid not to take advantage of it. The heavy running teams won't be able to score enough points to keep up. And.. I don't care who's running around back there, it's just a matter of time before the QB is on the bench hurt.
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Quote:
I personally love watching Georgia Tech in the ACC. It's fun because it's different from everyone else and it gives DC's in the conference something else to plan towards.
i can't stand watching Georgia Tech and their gimmick offense.. it pisses me off to the umpth degree.. lol.
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Quote:
Quote:
I personally love watching Georgia Tech in the ACC. It's fun because it's different from everyone else and it gives DC's in the conference something else to plan towards.
i can't stand watching Georgia Tech and their gimmick offense.. it pisses me off to the umpth degree.. lol.
a Georgia fan having clean, old-fashioned hate towards Georgia Tech? why, I never.
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a Georgia fan having clean, old-fashioned hate towards Georgia Tech? why, I never.
I'm fairly confident Georgia can beat Kentucky, and whoever comes out of the SEC West, whether it be Alabama, LSU, or Arkansas..
but I'm never confident going up against Tech.. not with that crap they run on offense. If you can stop it early.. you win the game.. If you can't stop it.. the defense will be on the field all day long. Todd Grantham better have my boys ready.
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I live in Oregon. Unfortunately that means having the Ducks crammed down my throat. I despise the program, the fans, the coach and the high school offense he runs. In my mind he's made the game, though high scoring, boring to watch. It seems almost impossible that those two things could be synonymous. But some how the Ducks with their 'three card monty' offense, and their million uniform fashion show, has done it.
And the fans.... Arg. You'd think the Ducks would have had a lifetime of championships the way these idiots rant on and on about them. Hey LeMichael James I have sisters bigger than you.
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Will someone just fold Tebow's knee backward? Please!
This guy plays like crap all night but still wins. Despite him. Stupid Sanchez gift wraps a pick six otherwise this game is not close.
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Sanchez is sooooooooooooooo bad.
Tebow > Aaron Rodgers
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Quote:
Will someone just fold Tebow's knee backward? Please!
That's a bit extreme...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Say what you will, but the guy took the team 95 yards for the W.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Say what you will, but the guy took the team 95 yards for the W.
I am no fan of Tebow but he wins games. His teammates have bought into him and they all seem to step up in crunch time.If I remember correctly Orton didn't have bad numbers, he just didn't win.
#gmstrong
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Will someone just fold Tebow's knee backward? Please!
This guy plays like crap all night but still wins. Despite him. Stupid Sanchez gift wraps a pick six otherwise this game is not close.
Hate all you want dude.
People talk about having "it"....well, Tim has "it".
Deal with it.
I wish our QB played as crappy.
LOL
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I don't understand the Tebow hate... Here's a young man that seemingly does everything right, and people hope he fails, yet these are the same people saying they're sick of all the thugs and punks in the league.
Tonight I wish he was a Browns quarterback. No matter how crappy he may look, 95 yards in the fourth quarter is still 95 yards.
I want the Cleveland Browns to be my pallbearers so they can let me down for the last time.
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I don't really get the Tebow hate, either. It probably has a lot to do with cynicism and jealousy.
Personally, I don't think he's going to make it as an NFL QB, but I think he'll have plenty to fall back on in life.
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You can watch him and think there's no way this kid can keep this up but he does. He finds a way. Then you listen to him speak it's hard to imagine anyone could not like the kid. He's genuine, his team is behind him, the kids a winner.
I've always thought he'd be a better center fielder, I was wrong, he's better at what he wants to do and I'm convinced he'll be successful at whatever that is.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
I don't really get the Tebow hate, either. It probably has a lot to do with cynicism and jealousy.
Personally, I don't think he's going to make it as an NFL QB, but I think he'll have plenty to fall back on in life.
He may not make it as a QB, only time will tell, but you are 100% correct about things to fall back on....the kids future is bright no matter what he does. He will have a whole world of possibilities thrown at him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,867
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,867 |
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Will someone just fold Tebow's knee backward? Please!
This guy plays like crap all night but still wins. Despite him. Stupid Sanchez gift wraps a pick six otherwise this game is not close.
Hate all you want dude.
People talk about having "it"....well, Tim has "it".
Deal with it.
I wish our QB played as crappy.
LOL
I'm no Guru Peen, but on Tebow, I've been 100% in lockstep with you.
He does have "it" whatever that is,, he has plenty.
They win with him in.. Lots of talk about how Fox had to scrap his Offense in favor of doing things that work well for Tebow. Probably true, but you have to ask, is that a bad thing?
If the objective is to win games, then it's not a bad thing at all because they are winning.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,511 |
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I don't understand the Tebow hate... Here's a young man that seemingly does everything right, and people hope he fails, yet these are the same people saying they're sick of all the thugs and punks in the league.
Tonight I wish he was a Browns quarterback. No matter how crappy he may look, 95 yards in the fourth quarter is still 95 yards.
I agree... I HATE the broncos... but I just feel compelled to cheer for this kid because he's a good kid that everyone just wants to DUMP on because he doesn't look like a typically QB....
I just really hope that he eventually learns how to pass it better... can you imagine how dangerous he could be if he gets his passing game going...
with the game last night though their offense looked horrible for most of that game... Denver's defense I think needs the majority of the credit for the win last night
<><
#gmstrong
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