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Just clicking
Anyone can say whatever they want to,, But with Tebow in, they are 5-1.. Love him, hate him, think he's a star, think he's a bust..Whatever,, They are winning.. and he's at least part of the reason for that.
His teammates seem to love him.. his coach was interviewed today on CBS before the Browns game and even he seems to love the kid. Wouldn't go as far as saying he's the future, but Fox said he wishes he never had made derogatory comments he made a few weeks back..
All in all, A win is A win. I'd take it and not even think to look back for one second.
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and the Browns are 10-0 when I scratch my left nut at least twice during the game  hey, you said we can say whatever we want my point though? correlation-causation brainfart
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Peen, you're a good egg, and I don't want this coming off as me rubbing your face in anything because that's not the case.
No worries mate. We've been board buddies for 5-6 years now. It's going to take way more then you being wrong about this subject to change that. 
I guess my point on "gimmick" is it is my feeling any O can be called a gimmick. This is just the new kid on the block, so to speak.
I will say this: I agree, Tebow will have to pass better. If over time he doesn't, it will die on the vine.
Sooner or later one would think some other team is going to do what it takes to score 30 points.
But along those lines, the option is a ball control, kill the clock type O. If you can limit the other guys touches, in theory you will limit their points.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Tebow will have to pass better. If over time he doesn't, it will die on the vine.
Pink-Boy keeps running 22 times a game and HE'LL crash before the Offense does...
Go Browns!!!
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and the Browns are 10-0 when I scratch my left nut at least twice during the game hey, you said we can say whatever we want
my point though? correlation-causation brainfart
Which part don't you agree with...
the part where they are 5-1 with him in there or the part that he had at least something to do with it?
As for what happens when you scratch either nut,, I'm afraid, I just don't wanna know... 
#GMSTRONG
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j/c
I get a kick out of the resident - and non resident - "gurus". When Tebow became a starter, they attacked his throwing motion, the length of time it took to throw, his mechanics, etc, and said something along the lines of "now he'll be shown for what he is".
Then after a couple of wins, it became "well, teams will scheme for him now - he's done".
After a couple of more wins, it was back to "his mechanics are terrible. If the Broncos are trusting this guy with the team, they'll be screwed".
And? He won again.
Here's a clue: The Broncos are 5-1 with Tebow - as "terrible" as he is. Apparently he only does 1 thing right: Win games. But, this IS the nfl, after all. It's not enough to just win games, you have to look pretty doing it, right?
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First of all, Tebow isn't winning these games.
I actually like the guy, and I kind of root for him, because I like those who defy conventional wisdom, and I'm a sucker for underdog stories.
But he isn't winning these games.
He's certainly a part of it, and he deserves credit where credit is due. But McGahee is running at a five yard clip, and the defense has been dominant. The defense is the key factor, really.
The offense Denver is running simply cannot comeback from a large deficit. We saw that against Detroit. If it gets down by more than say, ten or fourteen points, the game is effectively over, and it is likely to become a blowout.
The team will go as far as the defense can take them. If the defense falters, the offense is really limited in what it can do.
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agreed on the defense bit. During the last 6 games for Denver that D has held the other team to around 16 points or so (even with the oakland game that was higher scoring). That D is getting it done. Offense is doing just enough to win. I like Tebow, but like most conversations in football the QB is getting too much air time on why the Broncos are winning.
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Listening to Willis McGahee after the win against SD may be a inkling towards the locker room attitude...
If you're Willis, Von Miller, Dumerville, or anyone else... And you go out there and play a great game, and all ANYONE is constantly asking you about, is Tim Tebow...
Eventually you'll have a reaction like McGahee did...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Another win today for the Broncos.
How many wins is it going to take to at least get people to say it can work??
I said it could work. I think it can long term as well and I think we'll see other teams use this approach.
I said it could work well before Tebow began running it this year.
Do I get a prize? Do I get to say nanny-nanny-boo-boo?
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Hel, in all seriousness, why do you think it can work now and why hasn't it worked in the past?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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First of all, Tebow isn't winning these games.
Agreed.
And he's not losing them, either.
The TEAM (ya know, the 11 guys on o, the 11 guys on d, the special teams), THEY are winning the games.
Yet everyone rails on Tebow for what he doesn't do.
I was simply pointing out that with him at the helm, the TEAM has gone 5-1. No more - no less.
Although, I do get tired of hearing "Tebow can't do this, he can't do that, he's terrible at the other"........when people talk about the Broncos in the last 6 games.
Here's a fact: They are 5-1 in the last 6 games.
People can argue all they want.
5-1.
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Tebow will have to pass better. If over time he doesn't, it will die on the vine.
Pink-Boy keeps running 22 times a game and HE'LL crash before the Offense does...
Pink boy??/
I don't know what you are talking about??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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When Tebow became a starter, they ... said something along the lines of "now he'll be shown for what he is".
Are you saying he's shown that he's not a strong, mobile QB that's a mediocre passer? I mean, good for him to be having success in the win column, but his passing numbers indicate that he's being shown for exactly what he is. Fortunately for him and for the Broncos, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
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Quote:
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When Tebow became a starter, they ... said something along the lines of "now he'll be shown for what he is".
Are you saying he's shown that he's not a strong, mobile QB that's a mediocre passer? I mean, good for him to be having success in the win column, but his passing numbers indicate that he's being shown for exactly what he is. Fortunately for him and for the Broncos, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm not saying anything about him as a quarterback - OTHER than the Bronco's are 5-1 with him being the qb. Just as I don't put our losses on our qb, I don't put their wins on Tebow.
But, 5-1. How you gonna argue that?
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I'd love to finish up our season 5-1 with a crappy QB, worthless RT and RG, slow LB's, a WR with the dropsies, a prima donna RB that fakes injuries, invisible TE's and an incompetent HC and FO. 
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Hel, in all seriousness, why do you think it can work now and why hasn't it worked in the past?
Before I attempt to answer your question a good read for those interested in offensive and defensive strategy is Blood, Sweat and Chalk. It dives into the history behind modern football strategy and tells stories from the coaches developing those schemes. It discusses offenses from the single wing all the way to today's spread option and about a dozen schemes in between. Holmgren is featured in the section on the West Coast Offense as well. For more information or maybe a gift idea see below:
http://www.amazon.com/Blood-Sweat-Chalk-Ultimate-Football/dp/1603200614
Why It Can Work
Schematically the Spread Option has the highest degree of variability to defend of any offensive system developed to date. The QB obviously has the ability to pass or run and often has the opportunity to pitch the ball in read option situations to one or more players as well. Here's the top four reasons it can/will succeed.
1. Rarity. There's only 1 team running it now. An NFL play on average lasts between 4 and 6 seconds. Because everything happens so quickly defenders have to read their keys quickly and react. Well the keys for players defending the spread option are very different than those running the WCO or other traditional pro sets. Thus preparing for this offense is exceedingly difficult.
2. 11 players active in the running game. Having the QB participate is a huge deal and adds a player for the defense to account.
3. Option reads. The defense HAS TO play strict and effective assignment football. When defenders do not play assignment football and try to make plays based on real or perceived things that they're seeing the QB has the ability to toss on the go to another runner or throw to an open receiver.
4. Defense must gear to stop the run. Because the extra runner puts the offense at an advantage in the running game, the defense has to account or get methodically run over. This offense will take teams out of the Tampa 2 which is the predominant scheme played today. Teams simply cannot leave two safeties deep against the SO. When that happens and teams pull one or both safeties up to the LOS it leaves WRs 1-on-1 and big plays are available. We've seen it with Eric Decker week after week.
Why Hasn't It Worked In The Past
It works today in HS and College. Why have NFL teams been reticent to adopt it? That's a complex question. My reasons...because simply put it does work:
1. In the past no one ran it and therefore there wasn't a player pool of experienced SO QBs ready day 1 to run it.
2. The QB will take many more hits than a QB who is not asked to participate in the running game. QBs cost a lot of money and a lot of time is dedicated to grooming them. They're the most important player on the team and no one wants to see that player on the sideline.
3. Very few coaches innovate. I think that's the bottom line. Professional football is not rocket science but it pays better! Coaches do not want to do anything that may put their job at risk and often do things to harm their chances to win a game in order to deflect future blame. Take punting from opponent territory for example. The math says that you should go for it in most cases on 4th down in opponent territory. Why don't teams? Because it could focus blame on the head coach.
I guess that's it in a nutshell.
For all those that think this is a fad you're in for disappointment.
For those that have watched the games....can you imagine if Tebow had accuracy? Or develops accuracy? Seriously...
Denver could put up 30 regularly. We'll see accurate, effective players running this offense soon. Get used to it.
Tebow is v1.0 (and I love watching Tebow run the football)
But upgrades are coming. Players that are equally effective running and throwing the football.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
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I'm not going to argue it, because I don't care, but if I were to I'd just point at Derek Anderson in '07 and Jerome Harrison in '09...two examples close to home of guys who caught lightning in a bottle in the midst of a perfect storm of circumstances.
You seem to be of the opinion that those detractors of Tebow's who said that he was guy who is more likely to make plays with his legs than with his arm are somehow wrong. That's just how I interpret it. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
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I'm not going to argue it, because I don't care, but if I were to I'd just point at Derek Anderson in '07 and Jerome Harrison in '09...two examples close to home of guys who caught lightning in a bottle in the midst of a perfect storm of circumstances.
You seem to be of the opinion that those detractors of Tebow's who said that he was guy who is more likely to make plays with his legs than with his arm are somehow wrong. That's just how I interpret it. Perhaps I'm mistaken.
I'm not going to say you're wrong, just as I won't say you're right.
What I AM saying is all the Tebow haters have said all along "it ain't gonna work".............and the bottom line is, the Bronc's are 5-1 with him starting.
Now, all the "guru's" on here blame Colt for everything that goes wrong with Cleveland..........yet so many also want to tear down Tebow for anything that goes right for the Broncos.
5-1.
Can it last? Ain't a damn person here that can say. As a decidedly UN fan of the Broncos, and a guy that couldn't care less about Tebow - I find it ironic that people gripe about his release, his accuracy, etc ad nauseum, and try to poo poo away the 5-1 record since he started starting.
It's kind of like "here's an egg. Here's your face"...........and people start in with the "you can't throw that egg in my face cause your accuracy is terrible" "splat" egg hits the face.
And then "he's a terrible q.b......they'll never win with him"..........as they win with him.
And now we have "well, they can't keep winning, people will figure it out"...........as they win again.
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We never had a QB with a weird throwing motion do anything of importance for us.... 
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Hel, if we were sitting in a bar having beers I'd tell you this so don't be offended. But honestly I'm not buying what you're selling. The reasons you cited for why it hasn't worked are still true today. I'm looking for reasons that are outdated. Those aren't and I don't look for those to change any time soon.
And I have no personal interest in it either way. I am neutral on Tebow. Don't really have an opinion either way on him. But let's be clear. Defense in Denver is getting the job done. They are keeping them in games while Tebow throws 5 yards outside of the target zone of his receivers. Maybe they are playing inspired ball because of him but that won't last. The crash that is coming is going to be very hard and cruel to Tebow and he won't deserve it.
I'm still looking for reasons why this offense is going to work long term.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Someone has posted Denvers scoring output multiple times. When Kyle Orton was starting, they scored more points consistantly. But someone, scoring less, they're winning more..
2 reasons.
Turnovers.
Defense.
I will give credit to Tebow for not turning the ball over, BUT that is with a caveat, Fox and his staff are tailoring their offense to protect Tebow as it relates to throwing the ball.
Add to that, the defense playing out of it's mind...
And the fact that the last 6 games have been against crappy teams...
You get 5-1...
What happens when a team goes up 14 points? Ball control offenses can't come back from multiple TDs...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I don't understand all the hate towards Tebow...fact is the guy finds ways to win and gets it done...
Ya know...Tebow and the running game is what is making Denver's D job sooooo much easier...they are well rested and off the field...not taking shots all the time...you have no idea a running game is a D best friend...
McGahee is being helped by Tebow just as much as the reverse is true...teams have to account for Tebow and his legs...to the outside, etc...that opens things up for the RB....
it is completely viable to win the the NFL with 70% run- 30% pass as long as your D just does their job...nothing fancy...just does its job and hold the other team to less then 17 you will win those games most of the time...
If your RB gets 100 yards, your QB(Tebow) adds between 75-95 yards rushing and a rushing TD, and passesfor 85-120 yards....i'll take it....thats a winning formula....
actually NFL defenses are not really drafted of designed to stop an option team...you have to have FAST DL and fast LB to be able to defend that...the NFL drafts more on size and strength at those positions then speed...Speed is most coveted in the D secondary on D in NFL....to stop the option you need speed at DE, DT, and LB...speed like say Derrick Brooks and the Super Bowl bucs team with Johnson...Rice, Brooks, those guys won with speed not strength...theres really no teams out there today with Tampa speed at LB and DL...hence why the option works...guards pull do well in space...strong DL struggle in space tracking down the ball carrier...it works...
if the option becomes popular in the NFL....teams will have to focus more on speed rather then strength at the LB position to stop it...you need LB with speed that can knife between your pulling guards and tackles...right now...most teams don't have that...they have edge setters and there is a difference...edge setters don't work well against the option....you need knifers that can disrupt things.....
also, Tebow has plenty of time and room to grow into a capable NFL passer...this is his first season actually playing...if they win out most of the rest of their games...Denver would be foolish to pull the plug on something that is working...who cares about stats...as long as you get W thats all that should matter...who cares if Tebow and the team get it done ugly...who cares if Tebow only passes for less then a 100 and runs for close to a hundred...as long as they win...don't turn over the ball...who cares
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What I AM saying is all the Tebow haters have said all along "it ain't gonna work".............and the bottom line is, the Bronc's are 5-1 with him starting.
That sounds suspiciously similar to those people who say that a QB is good because he's "a winner" when the reality is that the player is winning because the team around him is good, not because he himself is.
I should know all about that because I've watched a guy just like that here in Austin for 4 years, then for two more on my favorite team in the world.
Yeah, Colt McCoy.
People have said he's a winner, but that transcendental leap of faith hasn't materialized into...you know....wins.
It shouldn't be lost on people that the exact same flawed theory caused the Titans to take Vince Young. He was "just a winner" in spite of his pathetic ability to throw the ball with any degree of accuracy. Now he's the backup in another city, in spite of the fact that the Titans won more games than they lost while he was the starting QB.
It's gonna take a long, sustained spell of success against some real teams before I can even remotely consider that this entire spread option can work.
Hel, plenty of coaches are innovators. The Run N Shoot was innovative, but after a few years in the NFL, defenses wised up and the offense went the way of the Dodo bird.
The Wildcat was innovative, and now people like Josh Cribbs and Pat White are out of those jobs.
Any offense that makes the QB take this many hits isn't long for the NFL.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not offended. No worries. The reason that most paid pundits are tearing their hair out over this is that Tebow is wildly inaccurate and has a long windup. What would happen if you had an accurate passer with a quick release running this offense? What if he was also a skilled runner? What I'm trying to say is this offense is a viable scheme. Would you run it with a guy as talented as Manning, Brees, Rodgers or Brady? No probably not because you wouldn't want that player to be put at risk. But there will be talented players who have played this offense their entire football career that will be successful running it in the NFL. Tebow is the first prolonged attempt at this and there will be more. That's all I'm saying. We can agree to disagree on that point if you like.
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What I AM saying is all the Tebow haters have said all along "it ain't gonna work".............and the bottom line is, the Bronc's are 5-1 with him starting.
That sounds suspiciously similar to those people who say that a QB is good because he's "a winner" when the reality is that the player is winning because the team around him is good, not because he himself is.
Truth be known, Tebow isn't doing anything to lose the game. He's not fumbling or throwing interceptions when they're driving late for the go-ahead score. The offense is maintaining the ball and getting the job done.
Of course, the team is playing much better with him in there. The team that the Browns have on D is pretty good (LBs excepted) There are absolutely huge holes on the offense (WRs, right side of the line, RB issues) where the talent level has been lacking to say the least.
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People have said he's a winner, but that transcendental leap of faith hasn't materialized into...you know....wins.
You know this is the Browns, right? How many winning seasons have we had since the return? Two. A 9-7 playoff run (Butch Davis and the QB controversy) and a 10-6 non-playoff run (Romeo Crennel with ended up saddling us with Derek Anderson longer than we should have).
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It shouldn't be lost on people that the exact same flawed theory caused the Titans to take Vince Young. He was "just a winner" in spite of his pathetic ability to throw the ball with any degree of accuracy. Now he's the backup in another city, in spite of the fact that the Titans won more games than they lost while he was the starting QB.
I never remember hearing that said about Vince Young.
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Any offense that makes the QB take this many hits isn't long for the NFL.
So, is it Colt or the offense?
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Well, that proves it,,,, no QB can win it on his own.... 
#GMSTRONG
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Truth be known, Tebow isn't doing anything to lose the game. He's not fumbling or throwing interceptions when they're driving late for the go-ahead score. The offense is maintaining the ball and getting the job done.
To his credit, so far in the process, no he hasn't. I don't know the answer to the question of whether or not he was a fumbler at Florida, but my recollection is that he wasn't. Again, that's to his credit.
However the flip side is when a player is as wildly inaccurate as Tebow has been, it's ultimately just a matter of time before a team with a real defense stuffs their running game, forcing Tebow to be a thrower. When that time comes, it's hard to imagine he's going to have 30 or 40 attempts without some throws that will negatively turn the tide of the game. Quote:
Of course, the team is playing much better with him in there.
I'm very glad you made that comment. That's the lightning rod of part of this exceedingly complex Tebow/Broncos discussion, and lies at the heart of why I chimed in about a player "being a winner."
The key word is "with." That suggests the entire team is playing better because of Tebow, which is lumping Tebow in with the defensive efforts of the team. To me, that's a flawed overall perception of Tebow. Not only has the defensive effort been supreme, but they've also had the benefit of playing several cupcakes the last several games. In the last 3 weeks, they've played the toothless-trio of the Chargers who were missing 3 starters on the offensive line and several defensive players, the very underwhelming Jets, and the hapless Chiefs. But the prevailing fallback argument is that Tebow is "just winning" and it's just not that simple.
Summarizing this, Anarchy, it all comes back to a disproportionate amount of credit going to Tebow. Willis McGahee and Old Horseface have flat-out said the same thing. Tebow deserves all the credit in the world for what he has done at various moments in these games. I'd never take that away from him. However, the cupcakes they've played combined with the lack of credit going to the offensive line's ability to open holes, McGahee's ability to run, and the defenses ability to shut people down are getting largely ignored.
That's how a QB who isn't special gets labeled by his supporters as being "a winner." Colt McCoy, Vince Young, Trent Dilfer, etc.
Over the course of a season, or going into the playoffs, a team simply isn't viable if they are scoring 19 points per game.
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People have said he's a winner, but that transcendental leap of faith hasn't materialized into...you know....wins.-'Toad
You know this is the Browns, right? How many winning seasons have we had since the return? Two.
EXACTLY! 
The "he's just a winner" argument falls down because the player in question is no longer surrounded with perfect circumstances. When everything levels itself out, the player who gets accolades because "he just wins" suddenly isn't winning and the flawed theory is exposed.
Change McCoy in for Young and change the Browns in for the Titans. The Titans were a good team. Not average. They were good. Yet Young was still exposed, in spite of the fact he won.
The Donks are a good team. But eventually, unless all these flaws Tebow has are overcome, he's going to be exposed.
That's the very heart of those who aren't buying into Tebow.
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I never remember hearing that said about Vince Young.
(in response to me saying Young was highly touted because he was a winner). Oh yeah it was out there. That was THE reason he was drafted so highly, in spite of the fact he was a terrible thrower of the football. Those who supported him flew that flag at every opportunity. The great irony here is that after their win the previous week, the topic came up again if Young would get a starting gig in 2012 because in spite of throwing 3 INT's, he led the team to a comeback "win." And guess what? Some people on ESPN actually said he would get a starting job because he won.  It's comical sometimes.
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Any offense that makes the QB take this many hits isn't long for the NFL.
So, is it Colt or the offense?
Oh no you don't, Anarchy.  That's for another thread, hehe. This is about Tebow, not McCoy. However, the Donks ran the ball 22 times. I believe ESPN said that's the most carries a QB has had in 40 years. It's a great leap of faith to believe a QB can take that much punishment over a 19 or 20 game schedule and win a Super Bowl, and that's why I said what I said about such a scheme not being long for this league. That's one of the great questions this offense and Tebow would have to answer.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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To his credit, so far in the process, no he hasn't.
That's all we have to go on when compiling our opinions.
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However the flip side is when a player is as wildly inaccurate as Tebow has been, it's ultimately just a matter of time before a team with a real defense stuffs their running game, forcing Tebow to be a thrower. When that time comes, it's hard to imagine he's going to have 30 or 40 attempts without some throws that will negatively turn the tide of the game.
Somehow, I think they'll continue to run it and Tebow will be held to 20 or less passing attempts and that the Broncos will be in the position to win the game late in the fourth quarter.
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I'm very glad you made that comment. That's the lightning rod of part of this exceedingly complex Tebow/Broncos discussion, and lies at the heart of why I chimed in about a player "being a winner."
Well, he seemingly brings out a better game among his teammates. Ask them. They're all overachieving. They only have to do it one year to win it all. Are you going to tell me that Trent Dilfer made the Ravens better when they won the Super Bowl?
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Not only has the defensive effort been supreme, but they've also had the benefit of playing several cupcakes the last several games.
Whatever. We've played 'cupcakes' and lost to them, despite our defense being better than our offense. How many divisional wins do we have? The Broncos have played 5 divisional games and are 3-2 in those games and 3-0 with Tebow as the signal caller. All of those divisional wins by Tebow have been on the road (at OAK, at KC, at SD).
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But the prevailing fallback argument is that Tebow is "just winning" and it's just not that simple.
Well, he is winning and it is that simple. The wins and losses are all they tabulate at the end of the season and they have more wins than losses. They're currently sitting one game out of the playoffs.
That's all I have time for.
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j.c
Tim Tebow 6-1 as a starter....
just sayin.
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Thanks for the read.....good stuff.
The Broncos did it again today. I wonder when Mr. Ed Elway will begin to backtrack??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I'll admit to only catching bits and pieces of the game today but I caught some large chunks.
They won today because Tebow passed the ball effectively against some severely blown coverages. Nevertheless, he did well in the passing game.
Come to think of it I don't remember seeing a single option play in the chunks that I saw.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It wasn't on out on the patio when I arrived at the bar around 2PM, then hit all the Steeler fans about my two tickets for the game Jan. 1st......I have a few hot prospects.
He believes(no pun intended) and now his team does as well.
There is no doubt I am a Gator Homer and a Tebow Homer, but I don't become a player Homer easily.
Tim is like Emmett Smith. He doesn't do a lot of talking, he does a lot of walking.
He may not be pretty. He may not do it in a manner people like, but darn it, he gets it done, and it is still early enough in the game he is going to get better.
You and others have to admit, he is already starting to take over NFL games, pretty or not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You and others have to admit, he is already starting to take over NFL games, pretty or not.
i wouldn't go that far. not at all.
however, the advantages of the spread-option more and more.
1. more time for the defense to rest. broncos D has been playing better (okay, not really today, but overall in this stretch)
2. opens up those 'blown' coverages because the defense is worried about the runs up front.
#gmstrong
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Wait, so the Broncos won today and it was all because of Tim Tebow, and didn't have anything to do with the fact that their defense got an early pick-6 and then got another pick on the Vikings' 20 with a minute left? I guess McGahee going off and Thomas's huge catch-and-run for a touchdown didn't have a whole lot to do with it either.
This is why people are sick of hearing about "Tebow Time": incessant fawning over average QB play against average opponents. Today he's getting credited with "rallying the Broncos for a win" even though his defense all but gift-wrapped the game winning field goal for them.
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Adam, the other shoe will drop eventually.
You know what you see. Others know what they see. Hey, even the Browns had a 10-6 season. But we all kind of felt something was off. Eventually the other shoe dropped there.
I do not dislike Tebow at all. But Denver has caught lightning in a bottle at the moment. Sometimes that surge of momentum is enough to keep things going but it won't be enough to last long term.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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This is why people are sick of hearing about "Tebow Time": incessant fawning over average QB play against average opponents.
Pretty much.
Somehow it's boiled down to you either love Tebow or hate Tebow. That's the exact reason that the guy gets the press he does.
Me? I root for him, because I think he's a great guy and I like underdog stories.
But he's done zero to prove that he's a viable NFL QB. He's made the best out of his current situation, and he deserves credit for that. He's been incredibly smart with the football, and he deserves credit for that.
But when we talk about Tebow, you get guys like Peen who talk about how the option is the way to of the future and how the doubters need to eat their crow, both of which are preposterous ideas. And then you get the guys who will jump at the chance to talk about how he's not an NFL QB, and discount what he can do, which is equally shortsighted.
In my opinion, Tebow can't lead an NFL offense in anything other than the system that's currently being run in Denver, an offense that's been tailored to mask his weaknesses and one that really won't stand up in crunch time. It cannot come back from a two or three TD deficit, which puts most of the pressure on the D. Denver D can't stop the O, or force the crucial turnovers, game over. They'll get stomped like the did in Detroit. If the D can make stops and turnovers in crucial situations, then yes, Tebow can play that game, and play it well.
Currently, Denver is in games as much as their defense allows them to be in games. That's not taking away from Tebow, because he's certainly done well. He's been extremely smart with the ball.
But if there's ever a time when his team needs him to rely on his arm and coverage reads ... he'll struggle.
I used to think the idea of Tebow winning a Super Bowl was crazy. It still kind of is ... but if he can find himself in a situation Trent Dilfer had with a dominant Ravens D ... certainly possible.
But that offense can only go as far as it's defense allows it.
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Gonna add to this, Phil, but only briefly.
I've an appreciation for your viewpoints on most things. To that end, I do agree with your take on Tebow. He's so polarizing that there's hardly any middle ground with the guy.
I've maintained that the team concept is creating the wins, but Tebow is getting most of the credit. The proclamations by his own teammates last week solidified the fact he's getting the press while those around him deserve it more. I've also stated he's in the middle of the perfect storm for this, as all the factors are falling in his favor. I don't want to take away from the things he's done well, because that would be insincere and ultimately false, but each and every week there are things which lead to the wins, yet he's getting the headlines.
I won't go into all those factors because it'd be redundant since I've gone that road before, but I am going to lay out a stat that exemplifies why we say what we say.
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Teams that score defensive TD's win 87% of the time.
Defensive touchdowns lead to wins in most NFL games
AText Size
By Column by RICK GOSSELIN / The Dallas Morning Newsrgosselin@dallasnews.com
Published: 15 December 2010 07:15 AM
Almost 40 minutes remained in the Chicago-New England game Sunday when Patriots linebacker Gary Guyton scooped up a Johnny Knox fumble and raced 35 yards for a touchdown.
For all practical purposes, the battle between the two division leaders was over. It didn't matter if Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer or Bill Belichick himself was taking the snaps for the New England offense the rest of the afternoon. Defensive touchdowns are that devastating.
There have been 59 defensive TDs this season. Teams scoring those touchdowns have won 86.4 percent of those games. The Patriots have scored four defensive touchdowns and are 4-0 in those games.
So when Guyton scored, the Bears were cooked. The Patriots wound up winning, 36-7.
Guyton is one of only three NFL defenders to score touchdowns on an interception and a fumble return this season. Cornerbacks Drayton Florence of Buffalo and DeAngelo Hall of Washington are the others.
Guyton returned an interception of a Carson Palmer pass 59 yards for a touchdown in New England's season-opening 38-24 victory over Cincinnati. RODGER MALLISON / Special to DMN Sean Lee returned a Peyton Manning interception for a touchdown in a game the Cowboys would win over the Colts in overtime. View largerMore photos Photo store
There have been 45 interceptions returned for touchdowns league-wide this season. Teams scoring them have won a staggering 91.1 percent of those games (41-4). There have been 14 fumbles returned for scores this season. Those teams are winning at a 71.4 percent clip (10-4).
As it pertains to today, Ponder had a really good game for a rookie but he threw an idiotic pick-6. Game over.
Perfect storm indeed....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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He's so polarizing that there's hardly any middle ground with the guy.
Hard to argue with that.. But in the end,, what matters? Wins do. And when you boil it all down, the team wins with him in there.. you can chalk it up to anything you like... But they are winning. Isn't that the bottom line?
To tell you the truth, I'd take that here in Cleveland over what we've been seeing.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Can the Broncos offense be
successful running the option?
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