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Nice little plan but I disagree on your lofty virtual signings...I just wouldn't add McKenzie, he will be 33yo next season....not worth the price. He'll be looking for retirement pay and a monumental decrease of level of play is to be expected....why and what should he fight for with a building team? Not a good fit....we'll fix RT only through the draft....
To be honest, I would leave the OL alone in FA (FA OL have NEVER been worth it) and just draft a RT to replace Pashos...we're very young on OL, getting better and get Steiny back....if the OL continues to play like they did againt STL, they really are no problem at all going forward, just draft a RT...Thomas-Steiny-Mack and Pinky/Lauvao for RG is more than enough talent and investment in this unit
same with Dockett btw...he'll be 31yo, also looking for his last big payday and his play has leveled off quite a bit this year...dude has 0.5 sack this season...hardly the missing pass rush element we lack at DE...maybe a 2 down SDE against the run but I doubt it...in a 43 he's and was a DT, not a DE....not worth it for what would end up being a rotational player for our DL
I also suspect you underestimate the price tag on both Grubbs and Manningham...both well above AVG players at their positions which means that if they should hit FA they'll be looking and getting a major contract....Grubbs would be worth it but only if we decide to let Steiny go...if he comes back we simply don't need Grubbs....I would not throw big bucks to Manningham....a low profile guy like Meachem is more like it but I suspect in this pass happy NFL days he'll be getting way more than he's worth too, so I'd pass too there
I agree with going the FA route for FS as the draft does not have much talent there yet again
As much as I would liek as to spend big money this offseason, I just don't see the fir for it yet...I would do a little more than last offseason, sure....but my big spender offseason would come 2013....when our franchise QB has passed his 1st season
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Quote:
he will be 33yo next season
Who, Weeden? 
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Quote:
Quote:
he will be 33yo next season....not worth the price. He'll be looking for retirement pay and a monumental decrease of level of play is to be expected....why and what should he fight for with a building team? Not a good fit
Who, Weeden?
added the full thought and 
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It's 1 thing if you sign a 33yo RT who has thrown his body in this league for 10 years for BIG money, or risk a low 1st/high 2nd for comparably LOW position money compensation on a 29yo body that is as fresh as the other rookies...the former is a dumb investment that makes little sense short or long term, the latter is a risk worth it based on game tape as you get at least as good/comparable value as Jones/Barkley later in the draft
Look, I wouldn't even look to draft Weeden in the 1st 5 rounds if he has played football for 6 years in College but he didn't, he's as EXPERIENCED (even less, since less continuity) as other top tier QBs and has better tape than some of them. You guys will eat a ton of crap (not that this would be something new) come draft day regarding Weeden...can't wait to see him against LSU
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Weeden is actually going to turn 41 in the offseason.
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Weeden is actually going to turn 41 in the offseason.
did he get his birth certificate from the same guy as Pujols?
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We've already tried grabbing a RT in FA (pashos) and taking a risk. I'd like us to try getting a long term player there in the draft. I do think if Steinbach comes back and we can get a really good RT in the draft that our OL will look much improved. Yes it feels 3/5's incomplete right now but I feel a good RT will improve the play of Lauvao or whoever ends up at the guard spot right of center. But we sell the farm for one player and we wouldn't be able to confidently upgrade our right tackle spot.
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I think that you absolutely try to grab a RT in Free Agency, but you do NOT go out hell bent on getting one. If you can get one that is young and can play, great! If not, walk away from the market and draft one. I absolutely do not see it as an either-or scenario... you have to build your team using every tool at your disposal, you just have to be intelligent about how you use them. You don't sign someone for the sake of signing someone UNLESS you have absolutely NOBODY at the position (e.g. if Pashos retired and all other RT's on the team are hurt or questionable... then you sign the first, best player you can AND you draft someone).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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So I'm already giving this MNF game to GB. Updated draft order after Week 10:
Just think, we're a 6-3 suck fest victory over Seattle from owning the #2 pick!
So who's going to be upset if we beat Jacksonville this week? 
 I will...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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i'm not going to complain about a win.
hopefully, we can usher an end to the Del Rio regime and they will switch to a 3-4 defense (one less team to compete for 4-3 D guys in the draft and FA)
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I'm never a guy to HOPE my team loses to get a better draft pick...
And if we come out guns a'blazin somehow and it LEADS to something? That's awesome..
Part of me thinks the messed up FG was asign from above that we're supposed to do something really awesome this next April...
And we've got Jacksonville and Arizona dead in our sights to screw that up...
Unless we're actually progressing, I'd RATHER look good and lose, getting the better pick, then look blah and somehow win but not really progess...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I never root for my team to lose, outside of the 2002-2003 Cavs, but if the Browns don't win the rest of the way? Probably a good idea.
I'd at least like to see some progress with this offense, win or lose.
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Quote:
We've already tried grabbing a RT in FA (pashos) and taking a risk. I'd like us to try getting a long term player there in the draft. I do think if Steinbach comes back and we can get a really good RT in the draft that our OL will look much improved. Yes it feels 3/5's incomplete right now but I feel a good RT will improve the play of Lauvao or whoever ends up at the guard spot right of center. But we sell the farm for one player and we wouldn't be able to confidently upgrade our right tackle spot.
Actually that's what I'm saying...it wasn't me advocating going the FA route for RT, just to make that clear
As for having no good picks left if going for Luck: wrong....we'd still have at least a high 3rd and 2 4ths left or a high 2nd and a couple of middle rounders...more than enough to get a decent RT, who go from low 1st (only those with LT upside though) to 4th....in fact, pure RTs with no hope to play LT can be found from round 3 to 5..
Lots of teams have so-so RT protection...and still it's not a highly valued position, that's where QB pocket awareness comes into play but I won't go there now.....OT with no athleticism to play LT drop out of the Top30 in the draft... only failed LT prospects and your mid to late round maulers play RT in the NFL....a guy like Womack needed years to look decent at RT and he was a prospect like Lauvao or Pinky when he was drafted a RT/G tweener
Just draft another 3rd to 5th round OL every year and you'll have a fine OL and depth after some years....building OLs takes longer than anything else and this crew is very young, signed FOR YEARS and hasn't played much together...heck people want to give McCoy more time after 16 or 17 starts...those guys don't even have 9 starts together.
They'll be fine and unlike Colt, they've shown AMPLE improvement if you actually cared to re-watch and focus on their play....against STL they were our BEST unit on both sides of the field and I could bet that by the end of the year they will look solid
I really don't get this OL whining around here, it's actually the least of our problems on O along with TE....QB, WR and now RB are much bigger problems
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Yea my post was me agreeing with you; not misreading  To Prp if a young talented RT is in FA then shoot lets get him! I just find it more likely that we'll have guys in FA that people were willing to let go, you usually don't let go young talented players unless he's a cap casualty or been a huge injury risk (Pashos) To Django I understand we can find some developmental guys late and work on them, but RT is one of many positions that we really would like to have a replacement for next year; thats why I put it higher than round 4. And like you I dont even consider RT to be our #1 target to improve on, or even #2... but sadly with how many needed upgrades on this team it still is something we need to upgrade as soon as we can.
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What is that premium worth to get a player that is coming off his first 4 year contract and has proven he can play at this level, compared to a draft pick coming out of college who hasn't proven anything yet?
I always look at these free agents and think, "Ok, if he had played his last 4 years here and played like he did somewhere else, I would be willing to give him $XX to stay." Then you take XX and add some percentage on to it since you are competing with other teams and set that value for the player.. and if he is willing to sign in that range then you go for it. Free agency is like buying a car, set what you are willing to spend going in and if the player wants more, walk away.
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Absolutely; and I don't see Heckert being the kind of guy who's going to sell us out to try and sneak in some wins and blow the cap up. I'm just saying for the most part the best you can get out of FA is a guy who can contribute. You're not gonna see elite guys on the open market unless they really want to get a ring... which leaves us out for a while 
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As for overpaying for FA....I think that is exactly what we will have to do.
I don't like it because it can hinder you in the future, but right now we have the cash, so we better start spending it.
Okay, what FA players would you go after?
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2012
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Quote:
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As for overpaying for FA....I think that is exactly what we will have to do.
I don't like it because it can hinder you in the future, but right now we have the cash, so we better start spending it.
Okay, what FA players would you go after?
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?y=2012
I'll take
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Ray Rice
WR: Wes Welker, Robert Meachum
OL D'Brickashaw Ferguson
That would be a nice start. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I can't say for sure until the list is set.....now all of these guys can be resigned.
I was looking at that the other day.....a receiver I would look at is Pierre Garcon....I think he would be a great pick-up.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I'll take
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Ray Rice
WR: Wes Welker, Robert Meachum
OL D'Brickashaw Ferguson
That would be a nice start.
Now, how many of those (for a start) could you actually see signing with the Browns?
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Quote:
I can't say for sure until the list is set.....now all of these guys can be resigned.
Of course, they could re-sign with their respective teams, but even providing that they hadn't, how many could you see actually wanting to come to Cleveland?
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I was looking at that the other day.....a receiver I would look at is Pierre Garcon....I think he would be a great pick-up.
I think that any of the Indy WRs would be a good signing if we could get them in FA, but I'm not convinced that we could land any of them.
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People I'd Be Interested In (And actually have a shot at)
QB
Jason Cambell
Shaun Hill
Kyle Orton
Brady Quinn (just kidding!)
RB
Ryan Grant
Jerious Norwood
WR
Danny Amendola
Dwayne Bowe (I assume KC will resgin him though)
Pierre Garcon
Mario Manningham
DL
Darnell Docket
Robert Mathis
LB
Jon Beason
Barrett Ruud
Mario Williams (I'd trade for him if I had to and move him back to DE)
CB
Leon Hall
Carlos Rogers
Aaron Ross
S
Michael Griffin
Reggie Nelson
This FA period sucks.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Realistic options:
QB. Campbell, Orton, S.Hill, Flynn
depending on what we do with Colt and in the draft all of those could make sense in particular scenarios
RB: Tolbert, Grant, BJGE....Tolbert would be a great fit, if Hillis leaves
WR: Garcon, Manningham, Meachem....in their prime #2 WRs, wouldn't pay them like #1 though
OL: RT K.Barnes, G Grubbs....wouldn't pay Barnes (dont trust this underachiever to produce after signing a big fat contract), but throw a lot of money at Grubbs if we let Steiny walk, I would trade them and their contracts right now...would hurt Baltimore too, but they'd be stupid to let him walk....hope Ray Rice will be so expensive that they have to let Grubbs walk but Ozzie is smart
DL. J.Parker, Mathis, Golston, Okoye....Parker would be a vet stop gap Heckert knows, he's a retirment contract I'd be willing to pay to teach the youngsters along the DL....same with Mathis (just more expensive, since he's better and younger), he was rumored to be available before the trade deadline, so I guess they wont try to retain him very hard...Golston and Okoye look like decent rotational #3 DT we lack to give our big guys some air....Okoye still is only 24yo btw, so who knows maybe the boom light comes on these years
LB: Goff...not much here and I'm probably 1 of the few that is ok with our LBs right now. They're all more or less AVG players, but that isn't a bad thing in this D...the focus is on DL and DBs....AVG but dependable and disciplined LBs is perfectly fine and that they are....I have no problem going another year with Gocong-Dqwell-Fujita...maybe a mid rounder in the draft for additional depth and future but outside of a flyer on Goff, there's not much I'd do here
CB: Grimes, L.Hall, Marshall, Mathis....some vey nice talent here, I guess at least 2 of those get re-signed (would be stupid to let Hall and Grimes go respectively) but Mathis and esp. Marshall coule be available. I'd throw some bucks at both hoping to land 1 and cut S.Brown's 3.7mil ....should be nice complements to Haden, and upgrade over Brown....would safe us a pick in the first 3-4 rounds
FS. Nelson, Griffin....haven't seen much of both but they should be upgrades over Adams/Young, but I guess they'll get some serious bucks and maybe both don't make it even to FA....coverage FS has turned into a scarcity position around the league
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For FS, I think the best option is probably go out and find a really fast, good tackling corner that may not have the greatest of man cover skills and turn him into a FS.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'll take
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Ray Rice
WR: Wes Welker, Robert Meachum
OL D'Brickashaw Ferguson
That would be a nice start.
Now, how many of those (for a start) could you actually see signing with the Browns?
Well you did say "go after" originally. lol
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Hall re-signed with the Bengals.
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When it comes to FA's, money talks......especially for the solid but not superstar type player.
If we make the best offer, people aren't going to boycott.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'll take
QB: Drew Brees
RB: Ray Rice
WR: Wes Welker, Robert Meachum
OL D'Brickashaw Ferguson
That would be a nice start.
Now, how many of those (for a start) could you actually see signing with the Browns?
Well you did say "go after" originally. lol
This is true, but then I asked the follow-up. That's usually the harder question. 
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Probably none of those guys sign, but then it doesn't take a Brick Feurgeson to be a positive replacement for Pashos.
At this point mid-level, solid players would sign the dotted line, and would represent a positive improvement for this team.
Remember, this isn't to take us to the Super Bowl, it's to get us winning 6-7 games next year.
Winning is a process just as building a team is a process.
You don't simply suck for 5-6 years, then win the Super Bowl. You first start winning, then flirt with the playoffs, then make the playoffs, then make your 3-4-5 year playoff run.
Hopefully in that 3-5 year window you have what it takes to get it done.
I will add a good plan then keeps you from falling off the edge of the earth in to oblivion. You might fall back to the 8 win range for a few years while you re-load, then do it again.
Good teams do it all the time. I know the Steelers are a cuss word around here, but they have been doing this the last 30 or so years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c
dang, that's a sad list. anyways:
QB: Flynn (a bunch of others could be backup options)
RB: Benson (if the Bengals steal Hillis), Graham (fits what we do), Norwood (same), Tolbert (doubt SD lets him go)
WR: Doucet (doubt he gets free), Garcon (ditto), Manningham (he could with Cruz's emergence). Steve Smith is a good WCO fit. Meachem has the talent but he always seems hurt.
OT: if that's the list, then we are in trouble and will need to draft RT.
DL: same thing here though there's some depth guys (like Okoye). I do like the suggestion above of trading for Mario Williams (Houston will tag him). Brooks Reed has looked very good for them and Mario's value is at DE. He could be had, but it could be too pricey in draft picks (it would likely start with the ATL pick).
LB (need SOLB and WOLB): Bradie James would be a monster SOLB in the 4-3. Dallas loves him though. Most of the others I doubt get away, but depending on Fujita's health/status I would consider going after a Tulloch or a Ruud if we need to.
DB: lots of options here but i'm guessing the better ones re-sign or get overpaid. go after Nelson sure, but it'd be a tough sell right now.
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Quote:
Quote:
So I'm already giving this MNF game to GB. Updated draft order after Week 10:
Just think, we're a 6-3 suck fest victory over Seattle from owning the #2 pick!
So who's going to be upset if we beat Jacksonville this week?
I will...
Go Detroit...
Miami...
Minny...
Skins...
Seattle...
Zona...
And dare I say JAX!!!!!!!!
And damn Barkley looked good last night...
Go Browns!!!
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As it sits right now here is the order after both Cleveland and Atlanta winning. 1. Indianapolis Colts (0-10) 2. Carolina Panthers (2-8) 3. Minnesota Vikings (2-8) 4. St. Louis Rams (2-8) 5. Washington Redskins (3-7) 6. Arizona Cardinals (3-7) 7. Jacksonville Jaguars (3-7) 8. Miami Dolphins (3-7) 9. Philadelphia Eagles (4-6) 10. Seattle Seahawks (4-6) 11. Cleveland Browns (4-6)12. San Diego Chargers (4-6) 13. Tampa Bay Bucs (4-6) 14. Kansas City Chiefs (4-5) 15. Buffalo Bills (5-5) 16. Tennessee Titans (5-5) 17. New York Jets (5-5) 18. Denver Broncos (5-5) 19. Atlanta Falcons (6-4)(traded to Cleveland)20. Dallas Cowboys (6-4) 21. Cincinnati Bengals (6-4) 22. New York Giants (6-4) 23. Oakland Raiders (6-4)(traded to Cincinnati) 24. New England Patriots (6-3) 25. Chicago Bears (7-3) 26. Detroit Lions (7-3) 37. Baltimore Ravens (7-3) 28. Houston Texans (7-3) 29. New Orleans Saints (7-3)(traded to New England) 30. Pittsburgh Steelers (7-3) 31. San Francisco 49ers (9-1) 32. Green Bay Packers (10-0) web page
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I'd suspect our winning ways are about done and Atlanta is starting to get on a roll.
If I had to guess it will finally end up with us getting pick #8 and pick #26.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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We should win at least one more with the Arizona game (talk about a messy QB situation).
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Well, let's just take it one game at a time. However, I think that Cincy is suspect and is ripe for their 3rd straight loss to an AFC North opponent.
If Shurmur continues to mix up the play calling more, we should be able to get out of Cincy with a win.
BallsNoMore has been skittish this year, despite their 7-3 record, and we've been incredibly consistent on defense. We might be improving a bit on offense and that'll either be proven against Cincy or shown to be lacking and that Jax just couldn't put up any offense behind Gabbert.
I'm alright if we improve and win some additional games. It's funny how a win can improve one's outlook on things and maybe supply us some false hope.
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Quote:
Well, let's just take it one game at a time. However, I think that Cincy is suspect and is ripe for their 3rd straight loss to an AFC North opponent.
If Shurmur continues to mix up the play calling more, we should be able to get out of Cincy with a win.
BallsNoMore has been skittish this year, despite their 7-3 record, and we've been incredibly consistent on defense. We might be improving a bit on offense and that'll either be proven against Cincy or shown to be lacking and that Jax just couldn't put up any offense behind Gabbert.
I'm alright if we improve and win some additional games. It's funny how a win can improve one's outlook on things and maybe supply us some false hope.
I've watched almost every Baltimore game this year, and it's amazing to me how they seem like they are over the Pittsburgh hump (as close as you can get without fully being over it by beating them in the playoffs) yet they come out and have these dog games against bad teams. Reminds me a lot of these Giants teams of the last 3 or 4 years.
I think the Browns can compete with them. I just worry that Ray Rice will get his and that will break everything else down. If they can attack Rice like they did Jones-Drew, I think you have a fighting chance.
I expect them to compete this Sunday too, no reason not too.
The defense has to show up every week though, and you have to get something out of your run game, I think if nothing else, we've learned Colt will struggle like a lot of young QB's without a run game, he doesn't have it in him yet to consistently move the chains on 3rd and long situations. We didn't have a ton of those yesterday.
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Quote:
The defense has to show up every week though, and you have to get something out of your run game, I think if nothing else, we've learned Colt will struggle like a lot of young QB's without a run game, he doesn't have it in him yet to consistently move the chains on 3rd and long situations. We didn't have a ton of those yesterday.
This isn't true at all - in fact the Browns have the 9th best 3rd down conversion rate in the NFL:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct
What we're actually terrible at is getting First downs on 1st and second down, as evidenced by our terrible (27th in the league) "First downs per play" rating:
http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/first-downs-per-play
That's the biggest problem with this offense - we never get a first on the early downs, which forces us to convert 3rd down after 3rd down if we want to keep a drive alive. No team is able to do that consistently.
This is my biggest problem with our playcalling.
~Lyuokdea
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I'd suspect our winning ways are about done and Atlanta is starting to get on a roll.
If I had to guess it will finally end up with us getting pick #8 and pick #26.
Yeah, we've got some brutal games coming up. 8th spot sounds about right for our pick. Maybe even higher.
As for Atlanta, they have a cupcake schedule going forward.
Here's the QB's they are going up against to finish the season:
Ponder
Leinart
Newton
Gabbert
Brees
Freeman
26 might be low.....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Bad news for us is Cutler broke his thumb yesterday.
With Cutler, the wildcards likely would have been Detroit and Chicago. With New Orleans winning the South, that would have improved our draft pick.
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Great. Thanks for the info, Top. You just ruined my bagel.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part II
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