DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cribbs "fed up" with losing

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Two games in a row now Little has displayed gator-arms on 3rd down receptions over the middle. Both were catchable balls and would have been 1st downs. Our WR corps is a mess.

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Here is a list of players we have chased out of town with pitchforks in hand since I was born in '87. I'm sure I am missing a few:

Albert Bell
Jim Thome
Manny Ramirez
Derek Anderson
Braylon Edwards
Eric Wright
Drew Gooden
Lebron James

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Ran out of town with pitchforks? What kind of revisionist history is that? Those Indians players you mentioned left for the last dollar, nobody ran them out of town. Lebron James? This town practically begged him to stay, to the point of being humiliating. Derek Anderson, Braylon Edwards, and Eric Wright played their way out of town ... all were embraced as great additions to the community when they had success on the field. They were not criticized until their play warranted criticism.

Nobody is running Josh Cribbs out of town. They are just saying he should stop setting himself apart from the team, as if he is the only one who cares deeply. He's a Captain on the team and he needs to start representing his team-mates better than that.

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Two games in a row now Little has displayed gator-arms on 3rd down receptions over the middle. Both were catchable balls and would have been 1st downs. Our WR corps is a mess.

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Ak-Joe,
Those last two messages sum up the last 12 years of Brown's football to a tee!! Although I think that this problem like that last 12 years starts with the GM. We have had NO ONE who could remotely pick talent. Everyone states how you build a team via the draft, but when you are picking duds and letting talent go bye, you cannot even remotely build a team.
And again, if you and I can sit and see these same things, why can't the suckers that call themselves Cleveland media ask those same questions and make those same observations??? You have been a fan since 1964, me around the 69-70 season and I cannot remember it being this bad!! And I mean this is worse that Nick Scorich/Mike Phipps bad!!!
But as you said, Heckert and Shurmur fed the fans and media pipe dreams that anyone watching football could see was wrong. Heckerts draft and non free agency moves were the first problem. Second was Shurmur THINKING he could scheme MoMass/Robiske/Little open... NOT!! Hell Shurmur has one of the fastest RBs in the draft sitting on the practice squad! Can't seem to figure out how to use him!
So now, instead of going forward this year, we actually took two steps back!!!

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Since 1999 can you even remember the string of bad QBs, sieve Olines, rb palookas, bad wrs, sloppy defenders? Yet the curious behavior of our front office continues this preseason as we let a sieve oline, dumped a solid FB wsting a pick on a hole we created, leting a DB walk while leaving in an aging slow cb, standing pat on the worst set of wrs in the NFL, not getting Hillis RB help and depending on the oft injured hardesty. standing pat on slow LBers.
we are RUINING this QB by giving him no help.
and we have a coach who seems not to see what unfolds in front of his eyes as he lets the most reliable wrs sit, pitches few calls to the reliable TEs, played head games with hillis from week one, does not leave in extra protection to help his qb get any time from his bad pass blocking right side. his obvous mind numbing insistance to run 99% on first down to the same hole, and his curious knack for not repeating plays that obviously work...
we are in a groundhog day of Football HELL.

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So, Cribbs got hurt tonight, eh?

Yeah, this full-time move of his to WR is really paying dividends.

This'll be the third regime to fail the team in this regard.

I wonder when they'll wise-up and keep him doing the things he does best...

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I thought I chased you away from this thread.

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Yet another instance where it's a good thing that nobody pays you to think.

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Josh had 2 passes thrown his way last night, and he caught both of them for 38 yards total. This was in a little more than a quarter's worth of time.

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On his first catch, he ran straight up the field and turned around. The only person in the league who couldn't have made that catch is Chicken Little.

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You really want me to post the numbers of our other receivers who played the whole game? The numbers don't lie

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And how many catches did Cribbs make the previous week against the Rats?

Zero.

And how many catches did Cribbs make the week before that against the Bengals?

one.

If, as you say, the numbers don't lie...

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Answer this question: Was the offense more effective before or after Cribbs got hurt last night?

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So now Cribbs is a central hub to making our offense go. Got it.

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Nope, you'd rather have him not play offense so he can return one extra kick-off with 2 minutes left when the game is already over and cover a bunch a punts that never got returned.

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Wrong, and wrong.

He ran a reverse that was a good play, which is one way I've always wanted him use, so you're wrong, as I've never said I didn't want him to play offense.

FURTHERMORE, I also want him doing his thing on special teams that involves MORE than returning kicks. I never said I just wanted him returning kicks. So again, you're wrong.

You have a nasty habit of putting words in my mouth, then taking parts of my quotes that fit your agenda, whilst leaving out the REST of the quote which changes the meaning of said words.

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People get hurt in football. It's part of the game. In fact, your more likely to get hurt covering and returning kick-offs and punts than you are on regular plays. Are you saying this is a failure because Cribbs got hurt playing WR?

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I'm saying trying to convert a player into a conventional receiver which won't net us 40 catches in a season is a failure when we lose an all-pro caliber special teamer to injury in exchange for 3 catches in 3 weeks.

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Here I thought you didn't want Cribbs playing WR because he wasn't effective, not because he's more likely to get hurt. At least that's what you've always said.

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Again, it's a good thing you aren't paid to think, because people would be wanting a refund.

The really trippy thing here is that you spent God only knows how long diggin' up my posts on Cribbs from last year in order to try and prove me a liar, only to take those words and clip out the parts that didn't say what you wanted them to say so you could twist them around. As if THAT wasn't crazy enough, after I went ahead and corrected you by showing the rest of what I'd said in the one singular post you dug up, here you are just a day later, having completely forgotten what I actually said.

Or ignoring them.

So, again, here's what I said, taken from the EXACT post you used to try and indict me:

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Now if Cribbs can contribute 40 catches where he's actually catching passes more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, then it'll have been worth it. Using up his energy doing something he isn't good at takes away from the team as a whole.

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Good job changing your story though. More back-pedaling...

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You're not adept at spin. I wouldn't recommend it.


Now since you're quite intent on chasing my tail, I'll state again...for what's probably the 100th time in the past several years...how I feel about Cribbs:

He's a very poor route-runner who is wasting his energies and capabilities as a conventional receiver. We aren't getting enough production from him as such to justify taking him away from the things he does very well, which are gadget plays, simple stuff, and special teams. Spending time throwing him the ball takes away from guys who have real upside as receivers whilst simultaneously hurting other aspects of the team. Cribbs will be 29 next year, and as much punishment as he's taken, it's hard to imagine him having any real upside as a receiver.

So now, here we are...Cribbs has 3 catches in three weeks and went out of the game hurt, meaning we'd also lost him as a special teams contributor. *shrug* Many people have questioned why Cribbs looks slower returning kicks this year. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together.

It's very unfortunate for everyone involved that Cribbs went out hurt, especially those that would argue his contributions as a receiver are worth losing him on special teams.

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Browns team report: McCoy, and who should be our receivers next year... December 9th, Steve Doershuk, Sporting News

PITTSBURGH-- Colt McCoy took a ringing shot from James Harrison late in the game that is sure to draw a fine. The Cleveland quarterback was trying to steer the Browns to a go-ahead touchdown when the oft-fined Harrison delivered a helmet-to-helmet blow point blank in McCoy’s face.

McCoy missed a play but returned to the game, long enough to throw a crucial interception. He had played with grit, although plagued by the season-long bugaboo of failing to convert drives into points.

Afterward, when McCoy went into an interview room, media relations man Neal Gulkis asked TV people to turn down their lights. Sensitivity to light is one symptom of a concussion.

Steelers' air attack burns defense. The Browns No. 1 ranking in pass defense was perceived as bogus, based on several opponents throwing shaky quarterbacks out there, while other foes ran at will and didn’t not need the air game. Thursday was proving grounds, given that Pittsburgh is stocked with an elite quarterback and two of the top four receiving-yards producers in the AFC North, notably No. 1 wide receiver Mike Wallace. Cleveland allowed 416 total yards.

In theory, the Browns should be developing a solid nucleus for the future of their defense. Their first two picks of the 2010 draft, cornerback Joe Haden and safety T.J. Ward, were coming off strong rookie years. Haden was stellar in the first half of his sophomore season, playing at a Pro Bowl level. He got a come-uppance, though, in a recent game against the Bengals, in which rookie sensation A.J. Green made two game-changing plays against him.

Ward has been out for a month with a foot injury. Before that, he had not made the kind of jump the team had hoped for. He is a thumper in run defense, though needing to acquire more discipline, but was below-average in coverage. The Browns avoided putting Ward on injured reserve and hope he can work on his shortcomings in the last few games.

The first two picks of the 2011 draft were defensive linemen, tackle Phil Taylor and end Jabaal Sheard. The lower pick, Sheard, has been the better player, but the brass is banking on both of them to be good core players moving forward.

Receiver questions: Rookie Greg Little gets open and has a big body, but he drops too many passes to bank on him as a No. 1 wideout. A No. 1 wideout will be probably added in the offseason, but in the meantime, the team still needs to explore whether Mohamed Massaquoi can become a force.

Massaquoi led the Browns with 624 yards as a rookie in 2009, but his statistics have regressed. Part of that is because of nagging injuries. Some of it is probably owed to a vicious shot he took from Pittsburgh’s James Harrison early in the 2010 season.

Massaquoi is big and he is fast enough, plus he is smart and can develop into a precise route runner. The team should be looking at a big three of Little, Massaquoi and whomever is added in the offseason.

Notes: Colt McCoy put together his most impressive first-quarter drive of the season, at least until it fizzled on third and goal from a few inches in front of the goal line.

The Browns lost two key players during the game in addition to McCoy. Joshua Cribbs, who was a factor in the passing game early, left before halftime with a groin injury. He was replaced both at wideout and on returns by Jordan Norwood, a ready but not dynamic performer.

Tight end Ben Watson left with a concussion and was replaced by fellow veteran Alex Smith.

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Nope, you'd rather have him not play offense so he can return one extra kick-off with 2 minutes left when the game is already over and cover a bunch a punts that never got returned.

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Wrong, and wrong.

He ran a reverse that was a good play, which is one way I've always wanted him use, so you're wrong, as I've never said I didn't want him to play offense.

FURTHERMORE, I also want him doing his thing on special teams that involves MORE than returning kicks. I never said I just wanted him returning kicks. So again, you're wrong.

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Read this again. Then, re-read the bold words.I never said that you only wanted him returning kicks. In fact, I specifically mentioned covering punts. I was merely stating that if Cribbs had stayed healthy the whole game and just did special teams, you would have had 1 more kick-off return from him, and he would have covered a bunch of punts that never got returned. Would you rather have had him get more touches on offense, and possibly get hurt, or get that kind of amazing ST production?

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He ran a reverse that was a good play, which is one way I've always wanted him use

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Yes, that reverse for all of THREE yards was a great play that really helped our offense move the ball. The only thing remarkable about that play is that it didn't go for -5 yards because there were 2 Steelers waiting for Cribbs on the outside as soon as he got the ball. If you only bring Cribbs in to use him on gadget plays, it's never going to work, because as soon as he comes in, the defense will suspect something is up. That's what was so remarkable about Cribbs in the Wildcat: everyone and their mom knew Cribbs was going to run, but somehow he still picked-up 5-6 yards a pop. That's why I feel Cribbs should be used more a as a regular part of the offense. Only using him on gimicks is not going to be effective.

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The really trippy thing here is that you spent God only knows how long diggin' up my posts on Cribbs from last year in order to try and prove me a liar, only to take those words and clip out the parts that didn't say what you wanted them to say so you could twist them around.

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Not as long as you think. 1. Click on username "Overtoad." 2. Click "Search all user's posts." 3. Look for any post written in a thread that had "Cribbs" in the topic.Took all of 5 minutes.

You say the same fricken thing in every post about Cribbs. What was remarkable (and perhaps lucky) was that I found a post were you contradicted yourself so well (or maybe not, since it happens frequently).

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Now if Cribbs can contribute 40 catches where he's actually catching passes more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, then it'll have been worth it. Using up his energy doing something he isn't good at takes away from the team as a whole.

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If you ask me or any other sane, English speaking person what point the author is trying to make with this statement, it would be something like this: "If Cribbs can catch 40 passes that aren't just all screens and trick plays, his switch to WR would be worth it. If he can't do that it, he is wasting his energy and hurting the team." To say otherwise either means you are in some form of denial, or you are absolutely horrible at conveying your thoughts in the written word, so maybe posting on a message board isn't the best thing for you to be doing.

If that is truly the point you were trying to make, you should have said something like:

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Even if Cribbs catches 40 passes that aren't mostly screens and trick plays, it WON'T be worth it because he is hurting his performance at what he is truly good at and, in turn, hurting the team.

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See how much easier that would be to understand, if that's what you really meant. Too bad that wasn't what you meant when you said that, and now that I caught you with your pants down, you have to make up a new meaning.

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You're not adept at spin. I wouldn't recommend it.

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You're right. The thing is though, I don't get as much practice as you because I don't make dumb comments that come back to bight me in the ***, and if I do, I admit as much and move on. You should really be a politician.

Even though I'm only registered in 2008, I've visited this forum since I was kid, back when it was the forum of the official Browns website, and so I've been reading your posts a long time. Just one time I'd like you hear you say "I was wrong" instead of "what I really meant was."

I'll say this again: the only reason we aren't getting as much production from Cribbs as Toad would like is becasue he is not utilized enough in our offense (even though he was on pace to beat Taod's goal before he got hurt). For a team that has the 3rd most passing attempts in the league, for your biggest playmaker (most TDs, most 20+ yard plays) to average less than 4 targets a game is laughable. Shurmur has shown he doesn't know how to utilize even the little talent he has been given to work with. Hardesty over Hillis?

Meanwhile, Greg Little has 100 targets, even though he barely played the first couple of games. That's more than Greg Jennings and only slightly below Steve Smith and Larry Fitzgerald. I remember earlier this off-season when Heckert was asked about our WR corps, and he said "whoever can score TDs, we will get him the ball." Obviously Shurmur doesn't agree with that statement.

I can't see Massaquoi ever doing anything of substance with the Browns. He's a couple concussions from being out of the NFL. He's deathly afraid of going across the middle (maybe with good reason with Colt hanging him out to dry a couple times), and he's absolutely horrible at adjusting to the ball and fighting the DB for positioning.

Once again, Cribbs' KO return numbers aren't really down (you said it yourself in this thread), and even if they were, it should be expected with since we are a young team with a bunch of new ST players and we lost one of the best ST coaches this offseason. Not only because he is playing more on offense.

TLDR version: Toad's wrong, but won't admit it. Cribbs should be getting more opportunities in the offense.

P.S. Here's a another Steve Doerschuk article for you since you are a cynic and think Cribbs only cares about money and not the fans. I bet you don't read it though. Article

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This will be my last post in this thread because I know it's futile to argue with someone who will never admit they are wrong and I'm sure everyone is getting tired of reading it.

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So, Cribbs got hurt tonight, eh?

Yeah, this full-time move of his to WR is really paying dividends.

This'll be the third regime to fail the team in this regard.

I wonder when they'll wise-up and keep him doing the things he does best...

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I thought I chased you away from this thread.

Josh had 2 passes thrown his way last night, and he caught both of them for 38 yards total. This was in a little more than a quarter's worth of time. You really want me to post the numbers of our other receivers who played the whole game? The numbers don't lie; Cribbs has been our most effective WR this whole year.

You praised Mass in the postgame thread, saying "he'd be a really good receiver in this offense." He had 3 catches for 44 yards. That's 6 more yards on 5 more targets and another half of play. Yet, Cribbs is "fool's gold." You are a piece of work.

Answer this question: Was the offense more effective before or after Cribbs got hurt last night?

Nope, you'd rather have him not play offense so he can return one extra kick-off with 2 minutes left when the game is already over and cover a bunch a punts that never got returned.

People get hurt in football. It's part of the game. In fact, your more likely to get hurt covering and returning kick-offs and punts than you are on regular plays. Are you saying this is a failure because Cribbs got hurt playing WR? Here I thought you didn't want Cribbs playing WR because he wasn't effective, not because he's more likely to get hurt. At least that's what you've always said.

Good job changing your story though. More back-pedaling...

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And Oh McCoy can't call audibles either.

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This will be my last post in this thread because I know it's futile to argue with someone who will never admit they are wrong and I'm sure everyone is getting tired of reading it. You can have the last word Toad, I don't really care...

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Nope, you'd rather have him not play offense so he can return one extra kick-off with 2 minutes left when the game is already over and cover a bunch a punts that never got returned.

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Wrong, and wrong.

He ran a reverse that was a good play, which is one way I've always wanted him use, so you're wrong, as I've never said I didn't want him to play offense.

FURTHERMORE, I also want him doing his thing on special teams that involves MORE than returning kicks. I never said I just wanted him returning kicks. So again, you're wrong.

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Read this again. Then, re-read the bold words.I never said that you only wanted him returning kicks. In fact, I specifically mentioned covering punts. I was merely stating that if Cribbs had stayed healthy the whole game and just did special teams, you would have had 1 more kick-off return from him, and he would have covered a bunch of punts that never got returned. Would you rather have had him get more touches on offense, and possibly get hurt, or get that kind of amazing ST production?

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He ran a reverse that was a good play, which is one way I've always wanted him use

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Yes, that reverse for all of THREE yards was a great play that really helped our offense move the ball. The only thing remarkable about that play is that it didn't go for -5 yards because there were 2 Steelers waiting for Cribbs on the outside as soon as he got the ball. If you only bring Cribbs in to use him on gadget plays, it's never going to work, because as soon as he comes in, the defense will suspect something is up. That's what was so remarkable about Cribbs in the Wildcat: everyone and their mom knew Cribbs was going to run, but somehow he still picked-up 5-6 yards a pop. That's why I feel Cribbs should be used more a as a regular part of the offense. Only using him on gimicks is not going to be effective.

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The really trippy thing here is that you spent God only knows how long diggin' up my posts on Cribbs from last year in order to try and prove me a liar, only to take those words and clip out the parts that didn't say what you wanted them to say so you could twist them around.

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Not as long as you think. 1. Click on username "Overtoad." 2. Click "Search all user's posts." 3. Look for any post written in a thread that had "Cribbs" in the topic.Took all of 5 minutes.

You say the same fricken thing in every post about Cribbs. What was remarkable (and perhaps lucky) was that I found a post were you contradicted yourself so well (or maybe not, since it happens frequently).

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Now if Cribbs can contribute 40 catches where he's actually catching passes more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, then it'll have been worth it. Using up his energy doing something he isn't good at takes away from the team as a whole.

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If you ask me or any other sane, English speaking person what point the author is trying to make with this statement, it would be something like this: "If Cribbs can catch 40 passes that aren't just all screens and trick plays, his switch to WR would be worth it. If he can't do that it, he is wasting his energy and hurting the team." To say otherwise either means you are in some form of denial, or you are absolutely horrible at conveying your thoughts in the written word, so maybe posting on a message board isn't the best thing for you to be doing.

If that is truly the point you were trying to make, you should have said something like:

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Even if Cribbs catches 40 passes that aren't mostly screens and trick plays, it WON'T be worth it because he is hurting his performance at what he is truly good at and, in turn, hurting the team.

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See how much easier that would be to understand, if that's what you really meant. Too bad that wasn't what you meant when you said that, and now that I caught you with your pants down, you have to make up a new meaning.

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You're not adept at spin. I wouldn't recommend it.

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You're right. The thing is though, I don't get as much practice as you because I don't make dumb comments that come back to bight me in the ***, and if I do, I admit as much and move on. You should really be a politician.

Even though I'm only registered in 2008, I've visited this forum since I was kid, back when it was the forum of the official Browns website, and so I've been reading your posts a long time. Just one time I'd like you hear you say "I was wrong" instead of "what I really meant was."

I'll say this again: the only reason we aren't getting as much production from Cribbs as Toad would like is becasue he is not utilized enough in our offense (even though he was on pace to beat Taod's goal before he got hurt). For a team that has the 3rd most passing attempts in the league, for your biggest playmaker (most TDs, most 20+ yard plays) to average less than 4 targets a game is laughable. Shurmur has shown he doesn't know how to utilize even the little talent he has been given to work with. Hardesty over Hillis?

Meanwhile, Greg Little has 100 targets, even though he barely played the first couple of games. That's more than Greg Jennings and only slightly below Steve Smith and Larry Fitzgerald. I remember earlier this off-season when Heckert was asked about our WR corps, and he said "whoever can score TDs, we will get him the ball." Obviously Shurmur doesn't agree with that statement.

I can't see Massaquoi ever doing anything of substance with the Browns. He's a couple concussions from being out of the NFL. He's deathly afraid of going across the middle (maybe with good reason with Colt hanging him out to dry a couple times), and he's absolutely horrible at adjusting to the ball and fighting the DB for positioning.

Once again, Cribbs' KO return numbers aren't really down (you said it yourself in this thread), and even if they were, it should be expected with since we are a young team with a bunch of new ST players and we lost one of the best ST coaches this offseason. Not only because he is playing more on offense.

TLDR version: Toad's wrong, but won't admit it. Cribbs should be getting more opportunities in the offense.

P.S. Here's a another Steve Doerschuk article for you since you are a cynic and think Cribbs only cares about money and not the fans. I bet you don't read it though. Article

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Toad seems to think it is Cribbs fault when his number is not called. Glad he is not paid to think. i think throwing to gator arms who gets plenty of opportunity for frops is the answer hey Toad?

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And Oh McCoy can't call audibles either.

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BS...you keep repeating this and it is crap. He clearly called audibles in the Steeler game, even the announcers mentioned it. Your anti Schurmur agenda is tired and clouding your opinion with crap.

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You came back several days later to reply to CribbsHero...again...after replying to the same post. That's borderline insane. CH and I clearly don't agree on this, but even he and I knew when to let it go.

I told you, Joe...take the meds.

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