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Then again, giving him an 'incomplete' after 2 of his better games
Cinci and Balt were 2 of his better games?
#gmstrong
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I don't have the time to go back through 19 drafts but if we're going to use arbitrary years and qualifiers to prove our point I have a couple as well:
Here is a list of current above average starting quarterbacks drafted outside of round 1 since 2005:
(Yeah I don't like those odds, either.)
And really, are there any franchise quarterbacks drafted outside of rounds 1 and 2 since Tom Brady? Maybe Schaub. Maybe Romo?
You would have to include Kurt Warner, Hasselback, Gannon to name a few. Just count up Super Bowl Wins..Warner and Brady alone outnumber the #1's I would guess.
Those guys were drafted (or in Warner's case, undrafted) before Brady. My point is that we haven't seen that type of draft day steal in over 10 years.. possible exceptions being Schaub and Romo and maybe I'm forgetting someone.. but if that is what we are banking on then we are probably going to be waiting a long time considering there are 31 other NFL teams also trying to find diamonds in the rough.
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Then again, giving him an 'incomplete' after 2 of his better games
Cinci and Balt were 2 of his better games?
Fair point, you're right, though I'm not really sure that we can really call any of them 'good.'
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Then again, giving him an 'incomplete' after 2 of his better games
Cinci and Balt were 2 of his better games?
Fair point, you're right, though I'm not really sure that we can really call any of them 'good.'
outside of the NE game last year referenced in the article, sadly none have been stellar.
however, he really seemed to be making progress as the year went along this year (until the Cinci and Balt games) except a complete inability in the redzone (or really 30yds in)
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoCo00/gamelog/2011/
SF, Hou, StL, and JAX the YPA was finally going up and the completion% went up with it (which is a very good sign)
yes, there are mitigating circumstances that mean we need to temper any enthusiasm here (even if he didn't crash the last 2 weeks), but he was showing progress at that time.
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Us fans like to talk about what it takes to win in the AFC north...... in cold weather, against tough, physical defenses. If there is improvement I want to see it manifest itself in these types of games. He has a few more chances.....
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I'm not saying it can't happen but when a QB is really good people tend to notice.
Just a thought but yeah, they notice, but it doesn't mean they'll succeed in the NFL..
Matt Lienert
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Dave Klingler
Ryan Leaf
Jeff George
Andre Ware
Dan McQuire
Todd Marinovich
Tommy Maddox
Rick Mirer
Heath Shuler
Trent Dilfer (at least he's got a ring)
Jim Drukenmiller
David Carr (I don't remember him as a complete bust)
Kyle Boller
JP Losman
Alex Smith (looked like a bust until they put him with the right coach and team surrounding him, now he's looking decent)
Vince Young
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn
That's the bust 1st round QBs since 1990 to 2008. Not in order by year of course,, 21 busts in 18 years.
I didn't check the number of successful 1st round picks for that same period of time, but I'm guessing it's less than 21.
If nothing else, this exercise shows that taking a first round QB doesn't guarantee anything.
I don't have the time to go back through 19 drafts but if we're going to use arbitrary years and qualifiers to prove our point I have a couple as well:
Here is a list of current above average starting quarterbacks drafted outside of round 1 since 2005:
(Yeah I don't like those odds, either.)
And really, are there any franchise quarterbacks drafted outside of rounds 1 and 2 since Tom Brady? Maybe Schaub. Maybe Romo?
LOL,, well you missed the obvious one,, Brett Favre was a second rounder of Atlanta and I'd say he's a franchise guy.. (yeah, I know, he was drafted before 2005)
The only point I was trying for here is that drafting a QB in the first round (or really any position) isn't going to guarantee of anything.
As has been said a million or so times, the draft is a crapshoot.
As for the years, I really didn't have an agenda there, but I bet that had I looked further back, the same results would hold true.
I did stop at 2008 for two reasons,, I got lazy and QB's drafted in 2009 to present may not have proven out one way or the other. Generally, I think it's premature to label them a bust.
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Damanshot
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By no means am I saying that drafting a quarterback in round 1 is a guarantee of anything. Never made any statement like that whatsoever.
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To simplify things, let's say that all of the good starting quarterbacks are drafted in round 1. (I'm not quite saying that because some of it does come early in round 2, and there are recent exceptions like Romo and Schaub as well. If you want to go back farther you can get into Brady, Warner, Montana etc. but those types of steals seem to be happening less and less recently.)
Anyway, again, oversimplifying it and saying all the best quarterbacks are drafted in the first round. This is ***MUCH*** different than saying that all quarterbacks drafted in the first round are going to be good.
Do you see the difference?
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Yes I see the difference if you are right.. I'm not going to go back in time and look up who was drafted when and compare careers.. But, assuming that you are correct about where the good ones were drafted, then yah,, I get the difference..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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The good thing with Mayock is that he is announcing our game tonight and if McCoy does anything boneheaded Mayock will let us know about it.
The more likely outcome will be Mayock commenting on our lack of playmakers on offense.
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I am gonna call BS here. Of the top ten by rating right now, only half were first rounders. Of the top 20, its only 11 out of 20. More importantly, taking a QB in the top 10 had success rate of 9 out of 17 since we came back in 1999 (I stopped after the 2009 draft because it is too early to tell on those since then, but I counted both Stafford and Sanchez in the success group). Overall through 2009, I get the success rate at about for the whole first round at 17 out of 31, which isn't too exciting. Essentially, for every Matt Ryan, there is a Joey Harrington and since we have so many holes on both O and D, it is too much of a gamble to go for that QB unless Luck falls in our lap.
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What is the success rate for 2nd rounders?3rd rounders?4th rounders?
There is an old adage,if you want a franchise QB you have to draft one early.
Success rates have no bearing on that.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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What is the success rate for 2nd rounders?3rd rounders?4th rounders?
There is an old adage,if you want a franchise QB you have to draft one early.
Success rates have no bearing on that.
Well, looking at the list I posted earlier, I'd say if you want a Bust QB, you have an equal opportunity to draft one Early....
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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especially if you want to draft Gabbert or Landry Jones in the first.
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That wasn't my point, of course the success rates are much lower (of course very few of those drafted in the lower rounds ever really get a chance anyways). My point was, with those kind of crappy success rates combined with all of our holes, we would be better off filling those other holes first than gambling on a qb pick. I would also argue (very strongly) that the success rate of those 1st round QB's is related to the talent (on both sides of the ball) around them when they begin to play.
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one flaw in this logic. we need to look at the success rate of other 1st round picks as well.
let's say there is a 50% top10 QB bust rate (it's somewhere around there). well, what is the top10 DE bust rate? WR? etc.
then, you have to factor in importance and value to shift to which 'riskier' picks are still worth it. i'm guessing QB bust rate is not far off from most positions anyway.
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The bad pieces of this team all add up. Bad blocking and you cant run or pass protect, bad running you cant pass, dropped passes and you dont move the ball and frustrate the QB and then a whole different set of bad things occur (bad passes). Colt has much learning IF he is too improve, but there's plenty of things
snowballing down the hill that affects play.
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Steve Young once told me something that always stuck in my mind. We were talking about John Elway, who Young thought was going to be a great one, and the fact he really didn't want to play for any team that was in a position to draft him with the first pick. Young felt strongly at the time that they failure rate of young quarterbacks in the NFL had something to do with the supporting cast. It made sense to me at the time.
So I guess I'm all about drafting some more talent next year and taking our lumps with McCoy again unless the BPA is clearly a QB. It's not like I'm in love with the guy or anything but he just has to be better than what we've seen so far or Lerner deserves a refund.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Steve Young failed w/ the TB Bucs. Steve Young made the HOF w/ the SF 49ers. True story.
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+1
I think Couch could have been a decent QB if he had a supporting cast. The poor kid was doomed to failure. He spent his career running for his life.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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If the Browns and Steelers were to trade QBs before the game tonight, who would win? I think the Browns would win. That tells me we probably need an upgrade at QB.
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I don't have the time to go back through 19 drafts but if we're going to use arbitrary years and qualifiers to prove our point I have a couple as well:
Here is a list of current above average starting quarterbacks drafted outside of round 1 since 2005:
(Yeah I don't like those odds, either.)
And really, are there any franchise quarterbacks drafted outside of rounds 1 and 2 since Tom Brady? Maybe Schaub. Maybe Romo?
You would have to include Kurt Warner, Hasselback, Gannon to name a few. Just count up Super Bowl Wins..Warner and Brady alone outnumber the #1's I would guess.
Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers disagree with you.
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And are Kurt Warner and Rich freaking Gannon really Franchise QBs?
Gannon had one transendant season in Oakland and ran into his old coach and one of the greatest Ds ever...
Kurt Warner has been to 3 SBs, But Beyond those 3 SB years and maybe a few others, he's never really been a stable guy...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If the Browns and Steelers were to trade QBs before the game tonight, who would win? I think the Browns would win. That tells me we probably need an upgrade at QB.
I don't think that's the case at all.. Ben would be on his butt all night facing the Pittsburgh D with our Oline protecting him and almost no running game and receivers that don't catch that damn ball.,.
this is what people who don't want colt mccoy always say.. Thinking that a QB will make all the difference without changing any of the other pieces is just crazy..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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And are Kurt Warner and Rich freaking Gannon really Franchise QBs?
Gannon had one transendant season in Oakland and ran into his old coach and one of the greatest Ds ever...
Kurt Warner has been to 3 SBs, But Beyond those 3 SB years and maybe a few others, he's never really been a stable guy...
Going to the superbowl doesnt make you a great QB....I mean, Trent Dilfer went, and WON!
#brownsgoodkarma
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But Beyond those 3 SB years and maybe a few others, he's never really been a stable guy...
That type of stability I could probably live with.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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I would, quite happily, take Kurt Warner at his peak.
He turned around St Louis, then he turned around Arizona. He went to 2 Super Bowls in his 1st 3 years as a starter, winning one.
That's better than anything we have ever had here.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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j/c
I think that i'm OK with giving McCoy another year, with adding some playmakers on offense.
My question though: is there any decent QB prospects for the 2013 draft if McCoy should not work out?? I would hate to pass on a great QB prospect now- i kind of like Barkley- he takes alot of snaps under center and runs a prostyle offense (or as least as close to one comes in college with all this spread stuff......)
But this offense lacks speed and a threat at wideout. I've said it before and I'll say it again- we are going to be alot better team when Cribbs is not playing WR. He's a playmaker as a gadget guy, but he is not a WR. Its just so hard to evaluate McCoy with the crap we have at WR. The same problem will be there for the next QB as well.
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great OL performance, great D performance
colt sucks.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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yea... i'm officially done w/ this guy.
He cannot make the throws.. he cannot.
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The Colt McCoy experiment needs to end now. If he can't get the job done, he needs to face the music. Unless he looks like Aaron rogers the next couple of games, he'll be a backup or be traded, released, etc. Barkley out of USC 2012!!! 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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great OL performance, great D performance
colt sucks.
Yea except the part where they threw on us like we had little boys covering track stars.
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great OL performance, great D performance
colt sucks.
Yea except the part where they threw on us like we had little boys covering track stars.
*shrug*
they got turnovers, they got stops, they hurt Ben. They were way overmatched and still came out swinging.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Yep.. They "Battled".. This is a process.. A young team.. etc.. So tell me PAT ? What's wrong with Hillis ? Was the ten carries what you scripted. Game out of reach at 7-3 so you need to pass now ?
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We held the Steelers to 14pts, 7 on one long play. We should have put up a lot more given the opportunities we had. This loss is all on McCoy. He had receivers open all night, he had protection and couldn't get the job done. He had more absolutely horrible throws than any starting qb should.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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We held the Steelers to 14pts, 7 on one long play. We should have put up a lot more given the opportunities we had. This loss is all on McCoy. He had receivers open all night, he had protection and couldn't get the job done. He had more absolutely horrible throws than any starting qb should.
Pretty much.
I'm glad I got all my f bombs out of the way in the chat room.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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The Colt McCoy experiment needs to end now. If he can't get the job done, he needs to face the music. Unless he looks like Aaron rogers the next couple of games, he'll be a backup or be traded, released, etc.
Barkley out of USC 2012!!!
Same outcome if you put Rodgers behind this O-line.
I really wish alot of you Colt haters could see past your own noses.
We have no running or passing game because the O-line is HORRIBLE.
Colt is going as fast as he can. If he can't go a little faster the O-line needs to block a bit longer. Open up a hole. Hell cheat. I do not care.
They are not protecting the QB or opening any running lanes at all.
And do not even get me started on the rest of the offenseive playcalling and the supporting cast who forgot they are supposed to be in the production as well.
We have an entire team of understudies.
And you guys aren't happy with the lead role? Colt is the glaring problem?
Well guess what? Colt is the least of the issue IMHO.
If it is a bad script.
You could put Robert De Niro back there And swear you were watching Keanu Reeves.
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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did you even watch that game?
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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Did you see how much time Colt had all night? The pass blocking was great tonight.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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