DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part III

digging yourself deeper = making yourself look foolish. Weeden isn't a top 2 round QB. Just because he's a great college QB doesn't mean he'll be a great NFL QB. Look at Couch, Dorsey, Graham Harrell, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinhart, Vince Young, JaMarcus Russell, John Beck, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, Troy Smith, I could continue. Just like before your logic is flawed. You're not making accurrate statements backed up by solid logic, which is why you're "digging deeper". You're reminding me why I used to skip everyone of your posts.

46. Levy Adcock - RT - Oklahoma St


I'd like to think about this for our 2nd round pick..

So basically: go Jags and Skins!

I would give my left arm for Matt Barkley.

If he's there when we pick and we don't take him, I might go Joe88 on you guys

If we stand pat with our first two picks, We must grab a stud QB/WR/RB/CB with the high top 10 and I would hope a solid DE/LB with the second first rounder. While RT needs fixing I am starting to feel our LB corps is in dire need of upgrading even more... We are giving up tons of yards to any running back who decides to play us.

and 2nd round is usually a good slot to grab a solid LB.

the good thing about us drafting LB (either with our 1B, 2, or 3 pick) is that we can truly take the BPA LB if we decide to take one.

if we draft SOLB or WOLB, then we have either Fujita for depth (or he retires). If we draft MLB, then DQ slides over to WOLB and Gocong to SOLB (no, I don't like him, but he's going to be here next year).

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we have so many needs that I can see us going a million different directions in this draft. while that doesn't speak well for the team as a whole, it does hopefully allow us to draft BPA (and I hope we properly target the BPA guys)

Week 14 Rewind: Weeden, Boykin, Keenum leave questions

By Rob Rang | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com



Each week, we rewind the game film to highlight the star-worthy performances that could impact the 2012 draft rankings:

• Just as the nation seemed to be coming to grips with the idea of an LSU-Alabama rematch in the BCS Championship game, an overwhelming effort by No. 3 Oklahoma State -- destroying rival Oklahoma Saturday night -- again embroiled the bowl selection process in controversy.

What won't be controversial is the NFL draft stock of Oklahoma State quarterback Brandon Weeden -- at least not in the eyes of scouts. Considering his gaudy statistics and winning ways, Weeden's draft ranking could be met with some surprise from fans.

With 217 yards against the Sooners, Weeden broke his own school record for most passing yards in a season, throwing for 4,328 yards through the air in 2011, beating the mark he set last year (4,277). For the first time in 24 games, Weeden did not throw a touchdown pass.

In rushing for a season-high 278 yards and four touchdowns, Oklahoma State didn't need him to attack the Sooners through the air. That isn't to say Weeden wasn't able to demonstrate the traits that endear him to scouts.
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Yet, the concerns scouts have about the Cowboys' quarterback were just as clear.

At 6-4, 218 pounds, Weeden has the size scouts like at the position. He also boasts a strong and generally accurate arm, the recognition to pick apart defenses and the presence to step into an NFL locker room and earn respect quickly.

The Cowboys thoroughly dominated the Sooners at the line of scrimmage in this 106th running of the Bedlam rivalry. OSU averaged 8.4 yards per carry and didn't surrender a sack. In fact, the only time Weeden needed to move his feet was on designed deception plays like screens or designed rollouts. This greatly exaggerates Weeden's accuracy and likelihood of success in the NFL.

As with most quarterbacks at this high level, if allowed to become comfortable in the pocket, Weeden can slice apart a defense with surgical precision. Due to the spread attack Oklahoma State employs, Weeden is rarely pressured. When he's not taking snaps out of the shotgun, he's typically in the Pistol. He's been sacked just 11 times in 12 games this season.

That, of course, won't continue in the NFL. As with most spread quarterbacks, Weeden has obvious issues in a muddled pocket. He doesn't reset his feet well and lacks the athleticism to buy time inside or out of the pocket. When asked to roll out -- a staple of most pro-style systems -- Weeden loses accuracy, sailing passes in the direction he's running. This was the case when he overthrew receiver Tracy Moore on the right sideline to end the Cowboys' first drive of the second quarter.

Perhaps most importantly, having spent years in the New York Yankees' farm system as a pitcher, Weeden is significantly older than virtually all NFL prospects at 28 years old, which while less of a factor at the quarterback position than perhaps any other position, is important, nonetheless. Teams are leery of using high draft picks on players who physically may be at or beyond their peak, especially those who are going to be asked to demonstrate more athleticism in the NFL.

NFL teams operating out of a primarily shotgun attack -- the Saints, Patriots, Packers and Colts chief among them -- value Weeden's quick delivery and strong, accurate right arm. For teams that ask their quarterbacks to do more than simply collect shotgun snaps and fire away, however, Weeden may generate just middle or even late-round interest.

• The Stanford Cardinal may have given the country a game plan in how to beat Virginia Tech in last year's Orange Bowl. It is much easier said than done, of course, but the Hokies proved to be susceptible to a power running attack which, as their defense is drawn to the line, further softens coverage from their safeties. A team can attack over the top, especially if it has a seam-splitting receiver in the slot or at tight end.

This is the game plan Clemson used to record a second victory over Virginia Tech this season. Though he only caught two passes, Tigers' tight end Dwayne Allen could have earned MVP honors for this game due to his all-around performance that resulted in two scores of his own and some key blocks from multiple positions.

Allen, a 6-4, 255-pound junior, scored Clemson's first touchdown, taking a short pass up the left sideline around and through the Virginia Tech defense, showing an impressive combination of agility, acceleration and power. His second touchdown came from just 8 yards out, but demonstrated different skills -- the burst to get a clean release off the line, sell the quick post to get Hokie safety Detrick Bonner turned away and the soft hands and body control to make the diving reception to his right. The second score gave Clemson a 17-10 lead on its first drive of the second half.

Quite frankly, Allen's two touchdowns were as easy as any he's caught all season. It was the versatility he showed throughout the rest of the game that will catch the attention of scouts.

Allen has the size and strength to hold up nicely as an in-line blocker. While he's not a dominator, Allen showed good initial quickness to get upfield, turn and seal the Hokies' defensive end off from the play, creating outside running lanes for Clemson's speedy Andre Ellington to get to the flanks. Serving as a testament to Allen's athleticism and reliability, he was moved to H-back on occasion to confuse the Virginia Tech defense and even to fullback when Clemson changed to a jumbo, three-tight end package.

Teams looking for a difference-making tight end capable of stretching defenses deep may want to look elsewhere because Allen does not boast elite athleticism. In terms of blocking and being a security blanket underneath, however, Allen staked a claim as the best all-around tight end in the country.

• While Oklahoma State was doing its best to convince voters it deserved a shot at the BCS championship game, No. 1 LSU just kept steamrolling opponents, including Georgia's multi-talented senior cornerback and return man Brandon Boykin during Saturday's SEC championship game.

Having returned four kickoffs for touchdowns in his career, the Tigers certainly were aware of Boykin's reputation as a game-breaker. Despite this reputation, a sterling effort from the LSU special teams bottled up the 5-10, 183-pound senior. Boykin returned three kicks for a just 49 yards and was held without a gained yard after fielding four punts. Even worse, twice Boykin bobbled returns.

While his special teams' prowess was managed by LSU, Boykin, at times, flashed the closing speed and tenacity in coverage to pique the interest of pro scouts. Twice Boykin closed in front of LSU receivers to bat away passes, knocking away a deep ball intended for Rueben Randle on the second play from scrimmage and slipping past Odell Beckham to knock away another well-thrown pass just a drive later.

As impressive as Boykin's coverage skills were Saturday, his unwillingness to take on ball carriers proved to be one of the key reasons LSU rattled off 42 unanswered points to blow out Georgia. Boykin, who infamously gave little effort to slow down South Carolina defensive end Melvin Ingram on his way to a stunning 68-yard fake punt for a touchdown on Sept. 10, again demonstrated his fickle competitiveness against the Tigers.

As LSU was pulling away, Georgia needed its seniors to step up and make a play. Instead, the senior cornerback twice backed down from physical confrontations against bigger ball carriers. LSU tailback Kenny Hilliard blew past Boykin for a rushing score in the second quarter. Boykin's unwillingness to sacrifice his body for the good of the team was even more obvious later in the game when he was unable to slow down Hilliard after the freshman running back caught a quick swing pass in the right flat.

Hilliard had just Boykin between himself and the end zone and made short work of the diminutive corner, scoring his third touchdown of the game and leaving a bad taste in the mouth of any scout considering Boykin as a potential top-75 prospect in next April's draft.

• Upon Further Review highlights a player whose performance over the weekend significantly altered my earlier assessment.

Houston quarterback Case Keenum entered the weekend a growing Heisman candidate and the leader of a Cougars' team hoping to land a BCS bowl game. Due to his hype, some believed he was gaining traction as a middle-round NFL prospect.

Instead, a swarming Southern Miss defense proved that Keenum, while a wonderful story, is significantly flawed as a pro prospect.

Keenum's lofty statistics (he's the all-time FBS passing leader with 18,865 passing yards) belie the fact that he's rarely asked to make NFL throws in Houston's spread offense. He's also been the beneficiary of weak competition. Keenum only faced one defense all season ranked among the country's top 50 in pass defense. Southern Miss, which held Keenum to "just" 373 yards and two touchdowns along with two interceptions, was ranked 55th heading into the Conference USA championship.

Against Southern Miss, Houston attempted to attack the field just as it had all year with a never-ending barrage of the quick screens and crossing routes popular in the spread attack. Keenum racked up his yardage on a season-high 67 attempts, rarely completing passes traveling more than 10 yards downfield. In fairness, Keenum did throw some beautiful passes in the loss.

A deep ball that Patrick Edwards dropped in the first quarter couldn't have been thrown with better accuracy. When he feels comfortable in the pocket, Keenum can throw the ball with nice touch.

The problem is, even when Keenum is throwing the ball accurately, his passes lack the sizzle to get through an NFL secondary unimpeded.

Southern Miss physically challenged Houston's receivers, often forcing them outside. Because he possesses only average arm strength, Keenum struggled to drive passes to the sidelines, effectively limiting where Houston could successfully attack the field.

Keenum ascension as the most successful quarterback in FBS history is a heart-warming story. Scouts with whom I've spoken throughout the season agree that Keenum is short on the NFL traits needed to give him a draftable grade.

web page

Boykin = Eric Wright.

In a deep CB class I wouldn't even consider wasting a selection on Boykin.

I remeber reading something about QB success from college. It involves career completion %, wonderlic score and how many starts they had.

It was that a first round QB getting at least a 26 on his Wonderlic, starting 27 games, and completing 60% of his passes is successful in the NFL.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/john_lopez/07/08/qb.rule/index.html

McCoy got a 25 on his Wonderlic, for those who wondered. (which is close)

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and as for Weeden: he's a good QB I don't care how old he is, he'll be able to play through his rookie contract without needing a walker

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Dude...

I GUARANTEE u that Heckert will not even look at this cat...

Get over the Weeden BS...

Go for the others at our slots...You're making yourself look beyond silly...

Did you miss his mock where he had weeden as a first round pick for us?

His mock draft was perfect except for that pick.

It's not that I talk about taking a 5th round guy in round 2...Weeden will be drafted in the 2nd/early 3rd latest and EVERY scout conceeds that he has round 1 tape...he's a legit talent at the most important positon...I'm not talking up some scrub

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EVERY scout conceeds that he has round 1 tape

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Man I've stuck up for you a # of times, but ?

Bunting for example said he has better tape than Landry Jones and in his podcast with Reuter (nfldraftscout) they both say how much they like him, but rating him as 2nd round spec because of age only...if it was only about tape he'd be in the top 10 mix easily

I mean, dude guns it all over the field and stil has the best comp% of all QB specs, ~73% is impressive

He reminds me an awful lot of Roethlisberger...and yes, that's biased and best case

Article on RG3

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Two-future-NFL-draft-picks-pace-Baylors-offense.html


Griffin doesn’t play in what I would call a complex offense, but he does show that he has to read more than half the field. He can easily go from his primary to a secondary receiver. He has a good feel for pass rushers and with his speed and quickness he can extend plays. The one thing I noticed on tape is that his offensive line is awful. There are many times when pass rushers are on him untouched and he has to use his rare athleticism to make a play or just stay alive!

Without question, I would take Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley before I would take Griffin. Still he probably goes in the top 5-7 picks of the draft.

Django - I agree with you that Weeden has 1st round talent. But his age does put him 4-5 years behind in his development. How far that drops him on an individual team's rankings will be different based on the team and where they are at in their development. But for the sake of advancing the draft discussion, would you accept that this is an argument that you can not win until Weeden gets drafted in the 2nd round and temper your enthusiasm for him? We all know you are high on him but every time you bring him up for some reason people feel compelled to criticize you then the arguments start and then threads get ruined. And I am asking you because it is possible that you might see my point and resolve the issue by not pushing Weeden whereas asking everyone else to try to accept your statements re: him would be folly with no chance of success.

thanks for that one Candyman. The more I see Griffin play (5+ games) the better I think he is.

Here is my concern with RGIII. In the Texas Tech game he got knocked out of the game for a little bit. Nick Florence came in and was 9 of 12 for 151 yds and 2 tds. Makes me ask the question: Is it RGIII or the system? See Brian Brohm. When he got injured at Louisville Hunter Cantwell cane in and played great. The next year with a new coach Cantwell did nothing while Brohm was in the NFL beginning his floundering career. Clearly Brohm's success was system related. I think it is a small concern but still something that should be looked at and evaluated.

You're right...I have my Pavlov's dog moments too

Thanks for the heads up, I'll cut it down...promised

I disagree completly, he has an NFL arm

What Griffin Has Proven at Baylor

- Run the football. He has blazing speed and acceleration. Has very good scrambling ability. Keeps his eyes downfield while scrambling.

- Run the Zone Read. Can read the DE and command the give/take from the QB position based off of a simple read of a D-Lineman.

- Throw WR Screens (Quick, Bubble). This QB has thrown more Quick Screens than I may have ever seen any QB throw in my life (Matt Barkley does too). He can execute the Quick from the Gun or from Under Center. Will also give a good play action fake to TB out of gun and keep a smooth delivery.

- Can throw the Hitch (5 yard) and Comeback (12 to 10). Simple pass plays that are opened up purely by Baylor's ability to stretch the field.

- Is able to execute Simple Read Pass Plays. Post/Wheel, Go/Bubble. Curl/Sideline, Fade/Slant.

A fact is a fact whether you agree or disagree.

From the three full games and parts of others it is clear to me that RG3 is incapable of throwing intermediate NFL routes. Can he throw bubble screens all day? Sure. So can any QB at any level.

Does he have the ability to throw an out route from the far hash? No.

Ok well yes maybe, but only if you include pick 6s.

Seriously I don't get it. It's like the guy has all these shiny sequins on his dress and everyone is mesmerized by them. Look how fast! Look how elusive! Did you know he's got world class speed?!?

But just watching him throw the football. EGAD! He makes Terrell Pryor look NFL worthy.

We all do

"A fact is a fact."

Not in your case, you are describing what you personally see, which is an opinnon. No matter how you try to spin it. So don't try to pass your opinon off as a fact. I loved that hyperbole of comparing him to Pryor. I guess Andrew Luck has a noodle arm then.

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RG3 will not go in the top half of the first round. There's a slim, very slim chance he goes in the first round at all.

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I disagree. I still have him as a 2nd round grade but there are personnel people that are drooling over this kid and chances are someone is going to take him top 10. I think Mike Shanahan and the redskins are the most likely team that goes gaga for Griffin.

You and I see eye to eye more often than not.

I don't know if you saw the Texas Tech game where he took a cheap forearm to the chin and was knocked out. But it looked pretty scary.

Seeing Michael Vick get injured every few games would turn me off of Michael Vick type QBs. And I would hope no one puts their arms in anywhere close the same league.

If I was a GM I sure wouldn't sign up for that. I'll be shocked if he's taken in the first 15 picks.

If you read above you'll see I have RG3 rated at #25 which is obviously a 1st round grade. He's definitely a 1st round talent. QBs with 1st round grades tend to get over-drafted and picked up early just because of the position.

Now I don't think he's worth of a top 5-7 pick (yet anyway) but I wouldn't be shocked at all to see him come off the board in the top 10-12 picks for sure.

Especially after he wins the Heisman (he will IMO) and he'll grade out excellent at the combine as well.

Part of me wishes there was a mph graphic like there is in baseball to measure passing velocity.

It confuses me why people can't determine how strong a QB's arm is.

It'd be like saying that Jaime Moyer can bring the heat. And then looking at the graphic and it saying 85.

Wouldn't you look at that person a little askance?

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Here is my concern with RGIII. In the Texas Tech game he got knocked out of the game for a little bit. Nick Florence came in and was 9 of 12 for 151 yds and 2 tds. Makes me ask the question: Is it RGIII or the system? See Brian Brohm.

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Hey Jester, not sure if you watched that game, but when he got knocked out of the game with two very hard hits to the head on the same drive, there was a clear difference between the two QBs. Yes, Florence had good numbers, but the difference in accuracy was huge, especially on deep balls. RGIII's pocket presence (yes, I know most of his snaps are in the shotgun) is really terrific. He's great at avoiding the rush while keeping his eyes downfield. He knows when to move up in the pocket and when to roll out. Brohm has a noodle arm compared to Griffin.