DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) 2012 Draft

I have been a member of this forum now for roughly about 6 months and have been awfully impressed with many of your opinions/ideas on how to make this a better team. I really enjoy reading what other Browns fans have to say about this team. I don’t know if it is too early to starting posting about the 2012 Draft or if you have a separate section regarding this topic, but I thought I would post something as I have thought about what we should do this upcoming off-season for a while now and want to know what your opinions are regarding the draft (if there is a thread about this out there and I have missed it, I do apologize). I posted this on PSD, but this forum has a heck of a lot more active posters, which I think could lead to a good discussion. I haven’t posted any of my thoughts to this forum due to the fact that I have not been certain on the direction I would like the Browns to go this upcoming off -season. Now that we are in the final quarter of the season, the draft is something that us Browns fans start looking into more and offering ideas and suggestions, I thought it was time for me to throw my two cents into the mix.

First off, I do not understand why everyone seems to jump on the bandwagon of drafting a QB with our first pick. We have not supplied Colt with ANY offensive weapons in his two years of being on this football team. We have supplied him with two different coaches, two different offensive philosophies, two different playbooks and a lockout to not be able to prepare for a season in which he was most likely going to be our starter. I hope that I am wrong in this, but I think Hillis may be a one year wonder (plus we may lose him in free agency next year). Trust me, I hope he resigns (with a contract that is heavy on incentives) and rushes for 1,000 yards the next 5 years, but I just don’t see that happening. Little, I think could be a good #2 WR, but is still learning the game and hopefully learns how to catch the ball. We all know that the right side of our OL needs help.

H&H has gone big time defense with the last two drafts and I think, along with many other people on this forum, that our defense could be real nasty in the near future. You must remember that we are very young and do not have a lot of players with a ton of game experience. To give up on Colt without giving him a chance to succeed is something that I do not want to see happen, next year at least.

Before I can even go into my draft strategy, I have to discuss free agency. As much as it hurts me to say this, I do not believe that a high name WR or a Mario Williams type of player will come to Cleveland. Even if we throw out a huge contract, which I do not think H&H will do, they are not going to want to come to Cleveland. With that being said, what other areas do we need help with that might be able to be taken care of in free agency. I think we could be players in some of the top free agents on the OL, LB, and DL (in that order). If we can land one, if not two OL improvements (which should be too hard considering the right side of our line), then we will not be forced to spend a high draft choice on an OLmen. Not saying that walterfootball.com knows everything, but they do have 8-10 OL being drafted in the 3rd round, two of which are from Wisconsin. Now, I don’t know anything about either Badger player, however, I do know that Wisconsin produces good OLmen. Also remember, we should be back Steinbach next year and Pinckston is getting great playing experience this year.

With that being said, I’m all about taking Trent Richardson with our first pick. He has had a killer year going up against SEC defenses that produce quality NFL players. Even if Hillis comes back, that will provide us with a great 1-2 punch at RB. Now, for those of you who think that Floyd will drop to Atlanta’s pick, keep on dreaming. There is no way he drops past 20 and I think Atlanta will make the playoffs (even though I do like rooting against them as my roommate is from Atlanta). One name that I see moving up and up on draft boards is the WR out of Baylor in Kendall Wright. He might be worth grabbing with Atlanta’s pick if they make the playoffs as I think he will be a late first round type of player when he runs a sub 4.45 at the combine, which is something our WR’s do not possess.

The key to this draft is hitting with our 2nd round pick no matter what position it is. If we can nab 3 starters with our first three picks and then fill in depth with SPEED, yes SPEED with our picks rounds 3 and on, I think we could be headed in the right direction. I’m talking like Oakland Raiders type of draft strategy where they take the fastest guy on the board. We have one of the slowest teams in the NFL and if H&H believe in their coaches, then we need to take the best/fastest athlete available and turn them into a football player.

My last point I want to make is that a few people on this board have mentioned about trading down. I would be all about trading down our top pick if we could still land someone like Richardson in the teen’s. I think one post I saw was to trade our top pick for Cincy’s two first rounders….I would do that in a HEARTBEAT!!! The more depth and quality of players we can land on this football team, the better they will become in the future. When Holmgren started a few years ago, I thought it was going to take 3-5 years to turn this football team around. Well, we will be working on the start of season 3 here in a few weeks with hopefully an idea of what direction we want to go in for year 3. If Colt is not successful while putting pieces around him, then yes, I definitely say go QB with the first round in 2013. I’m just not ready to give up on the kid just quite yet.

Good post...welcome.

Hope the refs don't delete this....but this should have been posted in the tailgate section of the board.

I know one thing, I keep hearing a lot of people pimping Blackmon. But I hear the same thing about him as the receivers we have....good size, good hands and NO SPEED....screw that.


We have got to draft fast players on both sides of the ball.

Blackmon is not some slow possesion reciever. He's like Greg Jennings, not a burner but definately fast enough to be a #1

If Blackmon is there when the Browns are on the clock, you turn the card in and thank whatever diety you believe in that he was still there.

He's every bit the prospect AJ Green was. Natural pass catcher, very good speed. My favorite part about his game is how he gets on top of the DB on deep routes. It seems like he has a knack for getting a step on a DB, then cutting in front of them, shielding them from getting to the ball with his big frame. If he doesn't catch the ball (which isn't likely if it's a good pass), the DB usually gets a PI call on them for running into him.

Make no mistake, he has #1 WR top-end speed. I think his acceleration is even better for a guy his size. I will be amazed if he doesn't get picked in the top 5, and I think he will be a great WR in the pros. He can play a possession WR game, and he can be a deep-threat, he'll be good in the red-zone, whatever that team that drafts him needs him to do.

Sports Science - Justin Blackmon

Very cool video. For all you guys who watch Okie St., anybody ever see Blackmon drop a pass? I haven't seen many of their games but the little I have seen I haven't seen a drop.

The other guy we need to consider is Alshon Jeffries SC. He is bigger than Blackmon and has amazing hands. He has been hampered by poor Qb play and there are questions as to his in-line speed. Anybody see enough of him to formulate an educated opinion on him?

I've seen some drops but they are rare.

He's the best WR prospect I've seen since Calvin Johnson. And Megatron was more projection as he didn't catch nearly as many passes as Blackmon in GT's offense. It seemed all he did was catch 40 yarders over 2 defenders...but he was pretty good at that.

I would love to have him on the Browns.

Greg Jennings is a good comparison...only he's a little better than Jennings in all respects except route running. And he's pretty good at that.

The way I see it is our "needs" are the following:

Offense - WR, RT, QB, RB, LG
Defense - OLB, CB, RDE, FS, MLB

I'm assuming Luck and Barkley will both be gone by the time we pick so I'm not going QB there. I'd want to address one of our more pressing needs so WR, RT, OLB, CB or DE. Of those positions the following players should be on our short list for our first pick:

Quinton Coples - DE - North Carolina
Justin Blackmon - WR - Oklahoma St
Morris Claiborne - CB - LSU
Dre Kirkpatrick - CB - Alabama
Alshon Jeffery - WR - South Carolina
Zach Brown - OLB - North Carolina
Matt Kalil (but probably gone and a LT) - USC
Johnathan Martin - a legit LT he would make our OLine stacked if slid to RT - Stanford
Riley Reiff - same as Martin - Iowa

Nice Post JE..

you will find a wide variety of opinions on Colt McCoy ranging from him not being elite all the way to him being good enough. I don't think anyone on here is jumping for joy over him at this point. And with good reason.

But your point of him not being surrounded by talent falls on some deaf ears. You will hear that if you add a better QB, everyone else will elevate thier game. I'm sure that a better QB would be help, but I doubt the result would be a significantly better team.

Heck, a FG here and a caught pass there and we probably have increased our win totals for the year..

But to be perfectly fair, those that say Colt isn't the guy,,, may well end up being right. Myself, I just don't think we know the real Colt McCoy given the lack of supporting cast and let's not downplay that Shurmur is a new HC and he's learning also..

I don't believe we need a MLB. However I agree with everything else

Blackmon or Die.

they did one of those on Haden and his was sick.

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And I heavily lean toward BURFICT at Atlanta's pick and move Jackson outside where he belongs...We need a HAMMER in the middle of this defense...And Burfict is much like Lewis was at Miami long ago.

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I hope you mean Atlanta's pick in the 4th because no one is gonna touch this guy in the first 3 rounds. Honestly, I think 5th-7th is more likely. The guy is putting up like 20 tackles every 3 games.

Another linebacker that is dropping like a rock is Zach Brown. Nose dive out of the first round with his general lack of enthusiasm towards tackling.

At MLB, what do you guys think about Courtney Upshaw with the Atlanta pick or Donte Hightower with our round 2 pick? Upgrade MLB and move D'Quell (if he resigns) to OLB.

here is my list of needs


RT – not to be solved before the 2nd round at the earliest (because of value), but it’s ugly and has been since Tucker was a reliable RT (yeah, short duration there).

LB – not to be solved before our 1B pick (value again), but we need a LB desperately. Take the best one there or in the 2nd, but let’s get one. DQ can play WOLB if we find a good MLB. Fujita has been disappointing and can be replaced if we find a good SOLB. Gocong can move to SOLB if we find a good WOLB. So, let’s take a LB early in the draft.

QB – McCoy could get another year. I don’t have a huge issue with it as long as we bring in someone to challenge him (Flynn, a draft pick, etc.). If we have a choice of Luck(doubtful), Barkely(again, doubtful), or later on Griffin(I don’t want him top10, but late 1st or early 2nd I’d be onboard with), then I would jump and still let Colt start the year.

WR – very good draft for WRs and we need a WR. Let us take advantage.

DE – we need a RDE badly. But, not sure any will be worth our top picks. Taking the best DE when he’s not close to being the BPA is not a good value proposition. Might need to scour for a bandaid in FA (if Heckert will do it).

FS – our safety play has been terrible. terrible angles, terrible tackling, terrible coverage. terrible, terrible, terrible.

LB – again, wouldn’t mind keeping DQ as a starter and replacing Fujita and Gocong. not sure we plan on replacing Gocong though.

WR – WRs tend to get hurt, we need a deeper stable. Heck, we need to build the stable to house them in.

RB – possibly. I still think alot of the Hillis stuff is
stumping for a contract and his injuries this year derailed him (see NBAPA vs. Owners to see how a resolution makes bad feelings go away). If we do re-sign Hillis, then we can take a RB late or UDFA or free agency.

OG – I think Steiny will be back and Pinkston will slide over. But, just in case, it’d be good to have another option on hand with a later middle round pick.

CB – always need another young corner with a late pick. oftentimes good for STs here too (especially early on).

LS – as an UDFA.

It's not a good year needing a 43 OLB, relatively weak class for 43 LBs.....the best value is in the 3rd to 5th with guys like B.Irvin, L.David, T.Lewis, Spence, Trevathan

For OLB I'd rather look for a fringe starter/backup caliber in FA for little money than overdraft someone with a top 50 pick....we can't fill every need with this draft and considering the lack of talent here I'd punt this position to next draft or as I said FA

OLB and FS are 2 need positions this draft isn't very valuable at....value and need positions of this draft seem to be DE and CB....both shaping up to be fairly deep classes, esp. CB, but they are in high demand and thus go faster anyway

je159...first...WELCOME to the board...

second...a very well thought out post, thanks for posting.

What the Browns do in the draft is going to depend on how we finish the season..if we win more games it will drive us down the draft board and alter the draft strategy.

Looking at the Browns schedule, it is very possible that the Browns end this season with 4 wins. The Browns could be in a position to draft top talent at any position they need.

It is assumed that the Colts will take Andrew Luck..here is the break down of teams with 4 wins or less as today...

...Eagles 4 wins, have Mike Vick
...Dolphins 4 wins, need a QB
...Redskins 4 wins, need a QB
...Panthers 4 wins, drafted Newton in 2011
...Tampa 4 wins, have Josh Freeman
... Jags 3 wins, drafted Gabbert in 2011
...Vikings 3 wins, drafted Ponder in 2011
...Rams 2 wins, drafted Bradford in 2010
...Colts 0 wins, will take Luck

The teams with less wins than the Browns (Jags, Vikings, Rams) look to be set at QB and could be a possible trade partner for any team looking to move ahead of the Browns to draft the second best QB in the draft.

With the possibility of trades to move up, there is also the possibility that Peyton Manning may figure into how the overall draft strategy plays out, concerning QB.

If the Browns are looking to draft the second best QB, they may not be in a better position to do so, than this draft.

Let's see how the rest of the season plays out...

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It's not a good year needing a 43 OLB, relatively weak class for 43 LBs

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Totally agree. I watched an SEC-Express game (kind of like the short-cuts... every play in an hour) of KY v TEN. Trevathon, for being one of the most-talked-about LBs, was pretty mucha non-factor in the game. He made like 5 tackles and every time the announcers would say "and guess who... Danny Trevathon." He was pretty ordinary in that game.

We want Zach Brown

How does LB have more value than RT?

RTs should have Top 15 value for sure - I'm not sure why (in this day and age of game-planning defenses) LTs have "#1 overall value" and RTs are "not first round material"

I'm don't rate RTs all that high but they're more important than 43 OLBs imho

That's my "value ranking" for this days NFL and for our style of D:

Offense:

QB
LT
WR
RB
C
TE
RT
LG
RG
FB


Defense:

DE
DT
CB
FS
SS
OLB
MLB

We must draft Blackmon or I will barf.

I'm with you, not simply Blackmon, but play makers. We MUST get somebody in here that has the ability to change the course of a game without having to rely on a defensive mental lapse. Be it Blackmon, Richardson, whoever.

Play. Makers. please.

Exactly. I look at Green Bay with Rodgers, or even seeing Rivers for San Diego on Monday night (though I admit he struggles other times, Monday night was a good example of my point). When they're on the field, there's just always that chance that the next play could be THE play that changes the game. Or, with 1:00 left in the half/game, they could feasibly lead the team down to a score.

With our offense, we need at least 5:00 to run a quality 2:00 offense (unless the other team is up by so much that they're playing garbage D), and there's never really that "big play" thought.

Give me someone on our offense that we can say "yeah, at any moment, that guy could break one for a TD."

I find it odd that you have MLB as the least important position in the 4-3 defense.

That said, and I'm not going to get into position by position analysis, though I do appreciate those who did.

We need a playmaker or 2 on offense that actually scares somebody and we need to stop the run on defense.. whatever it takes to get that done.... Oh and we may or may not need a new long snapper.

I love Burfict. I have watched many of his games in the Pac-12 living on the west coast. I don't think he is a fit for this team. He is not very fast (faster than Fujita) and what most people complain about Gocong and Fujita is that they are too slow.

I think linebackers are more important than right tackles. Linebackers are the QB of the defense.

Great linebackers can keep your defense at a high level. I think you need great D-linemen to eventually win, but soild linebackers that become a mainstay can keep your defense good year in and year out.

Just like at the Patriots.

I watched the ASU Cal game and it seems to me I recall Burfict getting benched because of 2 or 3 personal fouls in one quarter.. he really hurt his team with that. Just stupid stuff.

I suppose that would be DQ's job maybe?

Instead of Morris Claiborne from LSU at CB, why not Tyrann Mathieu - who was just invited to be at the Heisman Trophy Presentation.

A friend of mine just posted his highlight vid on facebook, and this kid does some serious magical stuff: