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I disagree for the following reason:
High-price positions are not high price because of some arbitrary rule that means LT's must be paid twice as much as LBs. It's because the majority of teams feel that a great LT contributes more to a football team than a great LB. That will remain true, even if all the salaries for drafted players are cut in half.
What it does do (dramatically I think), is change the trade value chart (especially for the top 5 picks). These very high picks used to have very little value in trades (although the listed numbers were still high), because when you took a player that high, you had to pay them a crazy amount of money. Just by trading down from 5 to say, 15, you opened up another $30 million or so to sign a high-power free agent. So I think the top 5 picks are much better now, than they have been in the past.
I also think you will see more trades up to those top 5 picks (like Atlanta last year), because teams that want to win now will couple a low first round pick and their first round pick next year (they are in win now mode) in order to get that guy who can help them immediately. I expect many more of that type of trade this year.
Maybe the Browns can take another one?
(Sorry refs: my post seem to disappear into the void when the thread got moved, so I've copied it over by hand)
~Lyuokdea
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Original Spot Actual spot Pick
1. IND 5. WAS Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2. STL 2. STL Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
3. MIN 6. MIA Matt Barkley, QB, Southern California
4. CLE 14. SEA Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
5. WAS 1. IND Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
6. MIA 3. MIN Matt Kalil, OT, Southern California
7. CAR 7. CAR Devon Still, DT, Penn State
8. JAC 8. JAC Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
9. TB 9. TB Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
10. KC 10. KC Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
11. PHI 11. PHI Luke Kuechly, ILB, Boston College
12. BUF 19. CHI Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
13. ARI 13. ARI Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
14. SEA 4. CLE Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina
15. SD 15. SD David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
16. DAL 16. DAL Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska
17. TEN 17. TEN Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
18. CIN 18. CIN Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia
19. CHI 12. BUF Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama
20. CIN 20. CIN Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
21. NYJ 21. NYJ Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
22. NYG 22. NYG Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Fla.)
23. DEN 23. DEN Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
24. DET 24. DET Brandon Lindsey, OLB, Pittsburgh
25. HOU 25. HOU Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford
26. CLE 26. CLE Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
27. PIT 27. PIT Kelechi Osemele, OG, Iowa State
28. NE 28. NE Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
29. BAL 29. BAL Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois
30. SF 30. SF Nick Perry, DE, Southern California
31. NE 31. NE Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
32. GB 32. GB Billy Winn, DE, Boise State
I thought I would try a mock draft and see how it came out. I know there will ne some major dicrepencies as I am no into the technical aspect of the game to and have not studied all the players. I.E. OLB's who may or may not be suited for a particular defense etc.
It would not surprise me to see Daniel Snyder give up alot to jump up for Luck and I could see the Colts doing that type of deal.
I guess now it is purely speculation anyway as I see some of the mocks have had us at four different spots in the draft from 11 to 4 and taking Richardson at each instance, even bypassing Barkley, RGIII and Blackmon.
Also I have tried numerous times to make this post more readable but no matter how I try to space the columns it still looks like a jumbled mess. Sorry.
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Legend
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Legend
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va's mock Code:
1. IND 5. WAS Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2. STL 2. STL Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
3. MIN 6. MIA Matt Barkley, QB, Southern California
4. CLE 14. SEA Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
5. WAS 1. IND Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
6. MIA 3. MIN Matt Kalil, OT, Southern California
7. CAR 7. CAR Devon Still, DT, Penn State
8. JAC 8. JAC Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
9. TB 9. TB Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
10. KC 10. KC Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
11. PHI 11. PHI Luke Kuechly, ILB, Boston College
12. BUF 19. CHI Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
13. ARI 13. ARI Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
14. SEA 4. CLE Alshon Jeffery, WR, South Carolina
15. SD 15. SD David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
16. DAL 16. DAL Alfonzo Dennard, CB, Nebraska
17. TEN 17. TEN Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
18. CIN 18. CIN Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia
19. CHI 12. BUF Courtney Upshaw, OLB, Alabama
20. CIN 20. CIN Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
21. NYJ 21. NYJ Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
22. NYG 22. NYG Lamar Miller, RB, Miami (Fla.)
23. DEN 23. DEN Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
24. DET 24. DET Brandon Lindsey, OLB, Pittsburgh
25. HOU 25. HOU Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford
26. CLE 26. CLE Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
27. PIT 27. PIT Kelechi Osemele, OG, Iowa State
28. NE 28. NE Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
29. BAL 29. BAL Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois
30. SF 30. SF Nick Perry, DE, Southern California
31. NE 31. NE Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
32. GB 32. GB Billy Winn, DE, Boise State
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I put up my Top 50 in a different thread (I think) just a little while ago...it hasn't changed much since then but it fits here since you guys are discussing that.
1. Andrew Luck - QB - Stanford
2. Matt Kalil - LT - USC
3. Matt Barkley - QB - USC
4. Trent Richardson - RB - Alabama
5. Quinton Coples - DE43 - North Carolina
6. Morris Claiborne - CB - LSU
7. Justin Blackmon - WR - Oklahoma St
8. Riley Reiff - LT - Iowa
9. Dre Kirkpatrick - CB - Alabama
10. Luke Kuechly - MLB - Boston College
11. Robert Griffin - QB - Baylor
12. Michael Floyd - WR - Notre Dame
13. David DeCastro - OG - Stanford
14. Johnathan Martin - LT - Stanford
15. Devon Still - DT43 - Penn St
16. Alfonzo Dennard - CB - Nebraska
17. Landry Jones - QB - Oklahoma
18. Courtney Upshaw - OLB34 - Alabama
19. Brandon Thompson - DT43 - Clemson
20. Alshon Jeffery - WR - South Carolina
21. Zach Brown - OLB43 - North Carolina
22. Lamar Miller - RB - Miami
23. Vontaze Burfict - MLB - Arizona St
24. Jared Crick - DE34 - Nebraska
25. Whitney Mercilus - DE43 - Illinois
26. Kendall Wright - WR - Baylor
27. Juron Criner - WR - Arizona
28. Mark Barron - SS - Alabama
29. Don'ta Hightower - MLB - Alabama
30. Mike Adams - RT - Ohio St
31. Dwayne Allen - TE - Clemson
32. Cordy Glenn - OG - Georgia
33. Janoris Jenkins - CB - North Alabama
34. Melvin Ingram - DE43 - South Carolina
35. Ryan Tannehill - QB - Texas A&M
36. Nick Perry - OLB34 - USC
37. TJ McDonald - FS - USC
38. Jarvis Jones - OLB43 - Georgia
39. Brandon Jenkins - OLB34 - Florida St
40. Chase Minnifield - CB - Virginia
41. Mohamed Sanu - WR - Rutgers
42. Jerel Worthy - DT43 - Michigan St
43. Levy Adcock - RT - Oklahoma St
44. Ronnell Lewis - OLB43 - Oklahoma
45. Johnthan Banks - CB - Mississippi St
46. Zebrie Sanders - LT - Florida St
47. Peter Konz - OC - Wisconsin
48. LaMichael James - RB - Oregon
49. Bruce Irvin - OLB34 - West Virginia
50. Stephon Gilmore - CB - South Carolina
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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1st String
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Here's what I don't see though. If Indy decides to keep Manning/trade Luck, then there is no way I see them walking away from a beast like Richardson. Manning will want another weapon and they will be in total win now mode by making that trade.
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Thanks for straightening that mess out for me. As for INdy you are probably right. I thought about Richardson there and he would be a great addition.
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If that's the top 50, we should get 3 of those guys should we not deal any picks? I hope that is a deep group. It seems pretty good but it doesn't seem loaded like you get maybe 2 or 3 times every decade.
Still though, the sound of it is nice.
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All Pro
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Who should we shoot for (be realistic) with our first three picks? If you advocate trading up to get Luck, include what you would give up.
Me: Blackmon, Coples, Mike Adams.
Also, I'd trade the two No. 1s to move up, but not next year's. If Indy wants to go with Manning, they'd well to get the No. 4 and a later No. 1.
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Legend
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welcome to the board. just so you know, draft threads go in the tailgate forum and we have a few going now.
#gmstrong
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All Pro
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Thanks for your patience. This board is fantastic.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Who should we shoot for (be realistic) with our first three picks? If you advocate trading up to get Luck, include what you would give up.
Me: Blackmon, Coples, Mike Adams.
Also, I'd trade the two No. 1s to move up, but not next year's. If Indy wants to go with Manning, they'd well to get the No. 4 and a later No. 1.
First 3 picks....sure I will play along in order RG3, Michael Floyd, and Chase Minnifield, then the best RT left on the board.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Welcome to the board man. Our first 3 picks are all dictated by where we go with our 1st selection so here are my scenarios.
Assuming no trades.
Option 1:
1A - Justin Blackmon - WR Oklahoma St
1B - Whitney Mercilus - DE Illinois
2 - Chase Minnifield - CB Virginia
Option 2:
1A - Matt Barkley - QB USC
1B - Kendall Wright - WR Baylor
2 - Chase Minnifield - CB Virginia
Assuming we don't trade up for Luck and Blackmon and Barkley are both gone I trade down to hopefully 8-12 range and pick up an extra 2nd this year and a 2nd or 3rd next year.
Option 3:
1A - Michael Floyd - WR Notre Dame
1B - Whitney Mercilus - DE Illinois
2A - Chase Minnifield - CB Virginia
2B - Levy Adcock - RT Oklahoma St
Assuming we trade up for Luck (I give up both 1st's and a 3rd this year, plus a 3rd next year...doubt that gets it done but it's where I'd at least start)
Option 4:
1 - Andrew Luck - QB Stanford
2 - Mohamed Sanu - WR Rutgers
4 - Andre Branch - DE Clemson
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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All Pro
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Can Skrine be a starter next year? He had the fastest 40 time and most bench reps of any CB in last year's draft, has a good attitude and seems to have played fairly well. And is there any way that Pinkston is a suitable RT?
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I like Buster, but see him more as a CB3.......I think Minnifield and Haden as our starters sounds pretty darn good to me, with Buster playing behind both of them.....Im ready to move on from the Sheldon Brown experiment
#brownsgoodkarma
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Legend
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I know absolutely nothing about Minnifield. But how much of the love for him is due to him being a Minnifield?
Similar to people wanting us to draft Casey Matthews this year, and he hasn't been lighting it up as people played him up to do.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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The kid is pretty solid CB....you can youtube him for highlights but cant really get a good idea just from watching the good plays.
and as far as Casey Matthews I still think we should of drafted him, he could of helped us out. And for what its worth the spot he got taken at I think we should of grabbed him.
Minnifield is pretty good corner tho to answer your question.
#brownsgoodkarma
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Legend
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Hey may very well be a great CB. Like I said, I haven't watched him at all (I'm no draft guru in the least). I just worry sometimes that people see a guy's name and automatically play him up.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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As of right now:
Trade back ( Seattle?) and get:
1A. WR Michael Floyd or Alshon Jeffery
1B. OT Mike Adams
2. DE Whitney Mercilus
It all hinges on Heckert and Holmgrens opinion of McCoy and what happens between now and draft day with Hillis.
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All Pro
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Casey Matthews would be playing a lot this year, if not starting. I watched him last weekend, and he was all over the place, just like his big brother. Well, maybe not just like Clay, but ....
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I like Skrine as well but he's still young and unproven. I wouldn't want to go into next year with him penciled in as a starter yet. Let him earn it with his play as a backup until then.
CB1 - Joe Haden
CB2 - Chase Minnifield
CB3 - Dmitri Patterson
CB4 - Buster Skrine
CB5 - Mike Adams
As for Minnifield, I'd be lying if I didn't say sentiment for his dad didn't play SOME part in wanting him. But the kid is a flat out player just like his dad. He's an early 2nd round pick for any team (and could even slide into late 1st round if his combine/pro days go well). It just so happens that we have an early 2nd round pick, CB is a priority position for high round picks and we have a need for a starting corner opposite Haden.
He is the main reason why I'd pass on Morris Claiborne with our 1st pick.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I know absolutely nothing about Minnifield. But how much of the love for him is due to him being a Minnifield?
Absolutely zero, quite obviously!
Sure, Graff mentioned Minnifield in the first three scenario's, but he did leave him off the fourth. 
Just bustin' your chops, Graff. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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All Pro
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Graff, those are good scenarios. But are you assuming we don't need a replacement for Hillis? I agree that RBs can be had later, but some gurus are calling Richardson the best prospect since Adrian Peterson. He MIGHT be the exception that you use a high pick on. Personally, I'd rather resign Hillis, build a dominant OL and start converting third and even fourth and shorts with smash-mouth football.
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Quote:
Quote:
Who should we shoot for (be realistic) with our first three picks? If you advocate trading up to get Luck, include what you would give up.
Me: Blackmon, Coples, Mike Adams.
Also, I'd trade the two No. 1s to move up, but not next year's. If Indy wants to go with Manning, they'd well to get the No. 4 and a later No. 1.
First 3 picks....sure I will play along in order RG3, Michael Floyd, and Chase Minnifield, then the best RT left on the board.
I would be quite happy with those 2 first round picks ..... and from what I have heard about Minnifield, I think I'd be pretty happy with that pick too.
Then grab a LB, DE, and T .... and we'd be in pretty decent shape for a turnaround.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No way am I spending a top 5 pick on a RB. Not in today's NFL and especially not in our offense.
I want to re-sign Hillis as long as his contract demands aren't stupid. If they are, then let him walk. I'd be fine grabbing a FA RB or looking at one of :
Bernard Pierce - Temple
Doug Martin - Boise St
Jeff Demps - Florida
Isaiah Pead - Cincinnati
Robert Turbin - Utah St
Whomever drops from that group in Rounds 5 or higher.
Get a QB and a #1 WR so the defense actually fears/respects the pass...and then a good blocking OLine...and Johnny-generic NFL running back will challenge for 1000 yard seasons.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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A lot of mention of DE Whitney Mercilus in the past few threads. We really need a DE opposite Sheard. Definitely a good pas rusher and if stout vs the run great. I don't get a good feeling from Couples. Can somebody breakdown Whitney Mercilus' game? How does that compare to the DE from So Cal (Perry?) or So Carolina Ingram?
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Option 1:
#1 QB Luck (trade for 2x1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th...all this draft, we'd still have 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th)
Option 2:
1a QB Barkley or QB Griffin
1b CB Dennard
2 DE Mercilus
Option 3:
1a QB Barkley or QB Griffin
1b WR K.Wright
2a CB Minnifield or CB Gilmore or DE Mercilus
Overall this is a VERY deep CB class...I would cut Sheldon and draft a CB with 1 of the 3 top 50 picks and then double dip in the 4th/5th...we'd be settled for years
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
No way am I spending a top 5 pick on a RB. Not in today's NFL and especially not in our offense.
I want to re-sign Hillis as long as his contract demands aren't stupid. If they are, then let him walk. I'd be fine grabbing a FA RB or looking at one of :
Bernard Pierce - Temple
Doug Martin - Boise St
Jeff Demps - Florida
Isaiah Pead - Cincinnati
Robert Turbin - Utah St
Whomever drops from that group in Rounds 5 or higher.
Get a QB and a #1 WR so the defense actually fears/respects the pass...and then a good blocking OLine...and Johnny-generic NFL running back will challenge for 1000 yard seasons.
Agreed.....Id rather take a flyer on a Boom Herron in the 4th or 5th round than draft one in the first with us having so many other needs...I mean if we re-sign Hillis, Hardesty is going to be here next year if we like it or not, and we have Brandon Jackson coming back who I think would of been great for us. Not to mention Obi, and Smith on the practice squad we will have plenty of depth. Not to mention we dont know who is or who isnt going to be on the FA wire.
Id much rather go get QB and WR in the first round...takes care of two areas of weakness. I think our depth at RB is pretty decent.
#brownsgoodkarma
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I like Option 3, as long as that QB is Barkley and not RG3.
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Option 3 for me. I feel like Kendall Wright will be a stud.
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If we get a steal (Claiborne at 10) you take the CB but I wouldn't target a CB with any of our 1st 3 picks. I think we would be ok with Haden/Peterson/Skrine if we could find a good ballhawking free safety (I don't see any in this draft) and an improved pass rush. I think the same quality player at S or DE would improve our defense more than CB but if CB is clearly the best player available you take him.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Some thoughts:
- I'm off the Coples bandwagon....3 reasons: 1. While having a very high ceiling he's just too much a boom or bust spec, and in the top 10 that's a no go for a 4 win team....2. Inconsistent effort is MAJOR red flag for ANY player in the trenches and esp. for a guy picked in the top 10....3. Sheard's emergence lessens the need to swing for a hgh ceiling guy at DE
- lots of CBs I like...Claiborn is a stud and would be a luxury pick with Haden on the roster...I REALLY like Dennard with the ATL pick, perfect fit for the D and as #2 CB...while Minnifield is ok I think we can get a similar talent in the 3rd in Judie or Boykin or even Fleming...I also like Gilmore over Minnifield
- still not sure about some DEs....taking those JR DEs is always a risk because it's easy to put up impressive stats when nobody is game planning against you. I really like Ingram but Curry and Branch are ok too...there sure aren't many day 1 starters, so we have to get a DE no later than with the 3rd, probably earlier
- late round (mostly big school) sleepers (200+ on most internet boards right now) WR Boykin, DT Harrell, DE Binns, OT James Brown, CB/FS Golden, OLB Kaddu, OLB S.Brown, G B.Brooks, LB J.Harris, S B.Taylor, S W.Guy, TE/FB Smelley, QB Persa, LB Marve, LB A.Cole
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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this does seem like a weak draft for DEs.
maybe a decent RDE prospect drops to us in round2
#gmstrong
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I know you can't get too Buckeye crazy, but Posey could be a steal at WR. Despite his suspension, he is actually a good attitude guy and he might fall. I think Little will take a big step next year, but we still need a field stretching No. 1 wideout.
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Quote:
If we get a steal (Claiborne at 10) you take the CB but I wouldn't target a CB with any of our 1st 3 picks. I think we would be ok with Haden/Peterson/Skrine if we could find a good ballhawking free safety (I don't see any in this draft) and an improved pass rush. I think the same quality player at S or DE would improve our defense more than CB but if CB is clearly the best player available you take him.
I agree with your last point 100%....this D needs a FS and DE more than an upgrade at #2 CB....but I'm not sure Patterson or Skrine will hold up on the outside...I view them more as inside CBs with spot starting ability...so, while I think Patterson can be ok there and Skrine still has a lot of upside to become a #2 CB...I still wouldn't go into the season betting on it...at least not next season
Also, not sure if Patterson is here next season...can't find any contract details...is he a FA?
Heckert wasn't perfect but he FINALLY solidified nickel/dime DB duties with a cheap FA sign and a 5th rounder
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,284 |
 Make it happen
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
cmon now, we can't get all 3 
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
Bernard Pierce - Temple
Doug Martin - Boise St
Jeff Demps - Florida
Isaiah Pead - Cincinnati
Robert Turbin - Utah St
Whomever drops from that group in Rounds 5 or higher.
Of these guys, I like Doug Martin and Bernard Pierce. Although Martin is a better pass catcher than Pierce. Plus I get nervous about Pierce's size.
But I watched him play UConn last year, and I saw NFL written all over him. Came from a very well coached Temple team. Looks like he had a great season this year too.
And I've always heard that Doug Martin was a good RB
But none of these guys are NFL regular starting material. There is one guy who most definitely is though. That's Trent Richardson. He's ridiculously good. Seeing that he can catch the ball and is in the AFC North on an outdoor field, I think he'd be a good fit for us
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763 |
Will they glow and be all shiny like that when they play?
That might not be so good, but at least it'd probably look cool during night games.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
cmon now, we can't get all 3
It looks like we're beaming them in.
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,148 Likes: 208
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,148 Likes: 208 |
I would love to see somebody do an evaluation of Richardson with 1a vs Lamar Smith Mia with pick 1b.
1a QB Barkley or RG3
1b RB Lamar Smith 1b
2 WR Kendall Wright or Fuller (Maybe a little optimistic hoping Wright falls this far but
3 Adcock (Does he last this far? Waltersfootball.com has us taking him with this pick)
Otherwise Massie/Datko/Reynolds here or maybe even with 4a.
Later perhaps Jarius Wright wr Arkansas
Growing pains next year with all these rookies on offense but with this draft and either our OG's progress or we sign a FA or we draft one the following year and this offense is fixed for the next decade. Of course the defense is ignored but we can't fix everything in one season - just too much.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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