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Despite all the debate, it seems that almost everybody saw the same thing:
McCoy and Wallace looked pretty comparable on the field.
Some argue that Wallace > Colt, some argue Colt > Wallace - but in either case the differences weren't huge.
That leads to one of two conclusions:
1.) McCoy = Wallace = Bad - The offense didn't click for either one. We know Wallace is a long time back up, which means McCoy is also backup quality, and we need to look for a new QB.
2.) There are problems not involving the QB on this roster. Both QB's have failed, and so we need to look at other problems (OL/Playcalling/WR play)
That was my point.., however, I didn't make the point as well as you did 
I was only trying to point out that what we saw on Sunday was by no means anything to show us what we need to draw a conclusion.
We still don't know (some on here say they do) what the root of the problem is.
Is itMQB? Maybe, but two seperate QB's came in and the same problems surfaced..
Is it the Coaching? Could be, two QB's, same playmakers, same result
Is it the Playcalling? Could be,, two different QB's, one is supposed to know the offense better than the other (wallace), Same playmakers, Same playcalling, same result
Is it the lack of play makers? Could be,, Same coaches, 2 QB's, same playcalling, same result.
I don't pretend to know what it is, but it's one of those things for sure. Or a combination.
That's all I was trying to point out.
Here is what I think... Holmgren knows, Heckert Knows also., I believe in these two guys.. I think they will figure it out.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think Colt's Dad threw the Browns under the bus, not Colt. In hindsight, he probably should have kept his mouth shut, because I think he hurt his son's standing with the FO.
I know his dad is the one who first piped up, but since then I haven't heard Colt say much to defend the browns position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I think Colt's Dad threw the Browns under the bus, not Colt. In hindsight, he probably should have kept his mouth shut, because I think he hurt his son's standing with the FO.
I know his dad is the one who first piped up, but since then I haven't heard Colt say much to defend the browns position.
Other than right after the Pittsburgh game, has colt even spoken to the media at all?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Quote:
I think Colt's Dad threw the Browns under the bus, not Colt. In hindsight, he probably should have kept his mouth shut, because I think he hurt his son's standing with the FO.
I know his dad is the one who first piped up, but since then I haven't heard Colt say much to defend the browns position.
On the other hand, we haven't heard him say anything negative about the Browns either. At least I haven't. Aside from his post game press conf - I haven't heard him say anything.
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I think Colt needs to speak up in defense of Shurmur sending him back in, in order to salvage the relationship. His father needs to understand that his boy is all growed up now.
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I would think given the situation and the fact that the proverbial crap had hit the fan, his best move possible was to step to the background and let the organization handle the PR and damage control.
The LAST thing you want is a player with a bruised brain attempting to talk to the media and spin things.... that's a recipe for a PR nightmare.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Other than right after the Pittsburgh game, has colt even spoken to the media at all?
I don't think so, and in that may be my point.
While he had to march of Homie to defend the team and the process, would it be too much for Colt to say to the media it isn't quite like that and stop the witch hunt?
That's my only point.
Whe you go back and read or listen to some of the press conference clips, I sensed a bit of frustration with Colt.
It's almost like there are two stories out there.
Anyway, that is all sidebar stuff at this point. The fact Shurmer is walking on shells here tells me something isn't 100% with the relationship, be it his fault, Colt's fault, or some combination of the two.
The comments and attitude seem to be similar to what was happening during the height of the Hillis fiasco.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Hall of Famer
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I really hope the front office isn't petty enough to change it's tune on it's starting QB because his dad said something mean.
I doubt that's the case, we'll know for sure on Saturday.
~Lyuokdea
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I really hope the front office isn't petty enough to change it's tune on it's starting QB because his dad said something mean.
I doubt that's the case, we'll know for sure on Saturday.
omg, if they are then every damned last one of them needs to be ran outta town ASAP.
This isn't the 3rd grade.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Its not just that McCoy's Dad said something mean ... he attacked the credibility of the organization and put them into full salvage mode. Thats why Holmgren was so testy during his press conference. Colt McCoy needs to speak up and say words to the effect of "I love my father, but in this case he's mistaken. Coach put me back in because I told him I was fine and ready to go.". It doesn't even matter if its true, it puts the whole thing to bed, organizationally.
Last edited by Dave; 12/20/11 12:03 PM.
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I disagree completely.
You tell him to keep his trap shut. The FO has said their peace and now you just let the issue die and fade away.
And you do NOT ask a player to throw their Dad under the bus!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Its not fading away, though.
Cleveland Browns "more than likely" to start Seneca Wallace again in Baltimore
Tuesday, December 20, 2011, 12:11 PM
By Tony Grossi, The Plain Dealer
BEREA -- Colt McCoy still is not over his concussion, will not practice today and will miss his second game in a row.
That leaves Seneca Wallace to make his second straight start Saturday in Baltimore.
"At this point, more than likely he'll be the starter, for sure," said coach Pat Shurmur.
Shurmur said that McCoy is "making progress," but hasn't been cleared by team doctors to return to full work.
"He was here today, had treatment, went to meetings. After meetings, he'll be going home," Shurmur said.
Shurmur said he didn't know if McCoy had seen a specialist and wouldn't elaborate on what symptoms are keeping him out.
"I talked to him a long time. His spirits are good. Like anybody who wants to play, he's anxious to get out there. But he understands there's a process he has to go through before he can play again," he said.
The coach was not ready to rule out McCoy for the season finale against Pittsburgh on Jan. 1.
"We'll have to see," he said.
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If Colt is ready by Thursday.. you start Colt..
if you are Shurmur you want to see what he has against the BEST. There is no point in starting Wallace if Colt can play. We know what Wallace can do. These two final games would give us a better story for colt.. although it is in the ending chapters.
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What's not going away... the concussion? Having a player with a bruised brain speak isn't going to fix anything.
It certainly won't fix or change the fact that Grossi is a dolt that does nothing but stir the pot whenever he can because he can't write without controversy.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The concussion is now the story....not the Browns treatment of it. There's no way you start talking about what happened on the sidelines again. The media has moved past it and will only come back if the NFLPA presses the issue or if the Browns are penalized by the league in some fashion.
Getting Colt up there right now would be a PR nightmare as he would be basically recanting on things he talked to his father about and the whole issue would be re-analyzed.
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Exactly. To think that every reporter present wouldn't pour over every last word looking and digging for any possible hint of inconsistencies is naive, at best. It wouldn't do anything except reignite the fire.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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And once again, Dawgtalkers correctly determine the fate of the franchise.
One of these days Lerner will read the board and provide us all with jobs.
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Quote:
Quote:
Other than right after the Pittsburgh game, has colt even spoken to the media at all?
I don't think so, and in that may be my point.
While he had to march of Homie to defend the team and the process, would it be too much for Colt to say to the media it isn't quite like that and stop the witch hunt?
That's my only point.
Whe you go back and read or listen to some of the press conference clips, I sensed a bit of frustration with Colt.
It's almost like there are two stories out there.
Anyway, that is all sidebar stuff at this point. The fact Shurmer is walking on shells here tells me something isn't 100% with the relationship, be it his fault, Colt's fault, or some combination of the two.
The comments and attitude seem to be similar to what was happening during the height of the Hillis fiasco.
LOL Maybe,, Just Maybe, this regime is smarter than the one that allowed Couch to speak after a concussion?
Another view of this could be that Colt is out and instead of speaking up about anything now, he's doing the "right" thing and taking the back seat, which if you look back, is exactly what Wallace did all season.
I don't know, but it seems to me that's just as likely as any other scenario..
I think you are reading way to much into it. But we'll see. The next time Colt speaks to the media, let's see what he says then.
I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting however.. Colt could be out the remainder of the season.. and if that happens, I don't expect to hear from him for quite a while.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think everyone is missing the obvious...
Colts dad was pissed because he felt his son shouldn't have been back in the game with a concussion.
Its already been said that the reason he was back in the game was because he seemed fine, and only complained of a hand injury.
Then after the fact the concussion symptoms became apparent.
There is NO WAY that this team is going to rush colt back...its not like the playoffs are on the line, and its not the right thing to do either with an injured player. Especially one that just was in the national spotlight over an injury.
We'll get seneca against the rats...
What happened, happened....if anything i expect the browns to be overly cautious with colt.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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1st String
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Good point. It is true that the last thing the Browns can have happen is for Colt to be "rushed" (in the eyes of the media) back and get another concussion. If Colt is good to go for the Steelers game though and still doesn't play, that likely would be an indication that he isn't in the plans for next year though.
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*keeping fingers crossed for RG3*
Colts days seem to be numbered here. Un-Suremer seems to be slowly washing his hands of him, and I think we are going to be looking for a QB in either FA or the Draft......if we dont go RG3 in the draft, we should offer a boat load of money for Brees!
#brownsgoodkarma
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*keeping fingers crossed for RG3*
Colts days seem to be numbered here. Un-Suremer seems to be slowly washing his hands of him, and I think we are going to be looking for a QB in either FA or the Draft......if we dont go RG3 in the draft, we should offer a boat load of money for Brees!
I get it that you have a hate on for McCoy but seriously man- we are more than just a QB away from being contenders. If we had all the pieces, then absolutely Brees would make sense. Right now, it would be a bad move of epic proportions. PLUS the fact that there is no way Brees would come here with the current weapons we have on the team.
If we go QB in the draft, I hope we take Barkley. I haven't seen alot of RG3 but what I have seen is not all that special. Alot of quick passes that his receivers get good YAC on. Almost entirely from the shotgun. Its clear the kid is an athlete and has a great arm and a quick release but, from what I've seen, I don;t see much. I would really love it if someone could post some film of him looking great as everything i have found has been unspectacular.
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"LOL Maybe,, Just Maybe, this regime is smarter than the one that allowed Couch to speak after a concussion?"
Mccoy concussed during Pitt game.Mccoy press conference after Pitt.game.
I wouldn't laugh too loud if I were you.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
If Colt is ready by Thursday.. you start Colt..
if you are Shurmur you want to see what he has against the BEST. There is no point in starting Wallace if Colt can play. We know what Wallace can do. These two final games would give us a better story for colt.. although it is in the ending chapters.
Why do you want to see what he is like against the best??
We have seen what he is like against crap teams.
The experiment is over. Done.
Time to move on.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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"LOL Maybe,, Just Maybe, this regime is smarter than the one that allowed Couch to speak after a concussion?"
Mccoy concussed during Pitt game.Mccoy press conference after Pitt.game.
I wouldn't laugh too loud if I were you.
LOL I'm gonna keep laughing.. For 1, they knew immediatly that Couch had a concussion. they didn't realize colt had one for sure until the next day..
I suspect you wanted a gotcha moment,, but you missed 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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LOL.....sure
I hope they are smart enough to never play him again this season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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LOL.....sure
I hope they are smart enough to never play him again this season.
I don't know if it's about being smart or not. But for sure, the rules say if he isn't recovered from the concussion, they can't let him play..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I hope they are smart enough to never play him again this season.
At the moment, I'm of the opinion that we'll stick with him another season.
He's not the guy, and it's obvious, but you'll still have folks trot out the blind optimism until the ride is over.
I just see too many holes on this team to be taking a QB with our first pick. If the pick is Luck, that's another story, but that's highly unlikely, and none of the others have really wowed me (granted ... I haven't watched enough to have a bona fide opinion there, but what I have seen didn't make me think 'this guy can overcome chaos around him and lead the team'.)
I'm a firm believer in facing the facts of lost seasons ... we did it this year, and we'll probably do it next year as well (though I hope for a competitive 5-11/6-10/7-9 record).
At this juncture, I'd rather build the team and then go get the QB. I know everyone has debates about how it should be done ... in this scenario, I don't see an investment worth making outside of Luck. I haven't watched Barkley much ... to those who have -- does he look like a QB who can weather a two-season storm of a bad supporting cast? Can he come away from it better and not damaged or shell shocked?
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McCoy?..PART TWO...
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