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That and Bradford was rookie of the year. So it's not like he went out there and put on a Blane Gabbert-like crapfest. He looked pretty decent for a rookie qb on a horrible team.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Well, it is a possibility, no matter how remote. I just don't see it happening.
The key will be, if the Rams do have the no. 1 pick, the asking price for a trade for Luck will go down, IMO. They might say they want a king's ransom, but in the end, they're likely going to take someone offering them a 1 this year and maybe a 2 this year and a 2 next year, or something like that. Compare that with what Indy can ask for (knowing they hold the cards).
I think the Rams would love to have Blackmon, but I'd be surprised if they take him no. 1 overall, especially considering the offers they'd be getting for that spot.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
Cowherd is a knucklehead who doesn't think things through. He just like to throw things out there to get people talking and get ratings.
Their are only a couple things I think I'd enjoy doing more than giving Cowherd a MacGruber style throat rip. I quite honestly can't stand the man's voice, the way he looks, the way he acts. I occasionaly listen to about 2 minutes of his radio show because their's nothing else to listen to and want to jam a stick in my ear. I used to watch SportsNation every day because I think Michelle Beadle is one of the finest women ever created - I haven't watched in a couple months now because Cowherd became too unbearable. So not only does he anger me - he's taken away my ability to watch a fine looking woman talk sports.
I award him no points, may God have mercy on his soul.
/rant.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college"
GO ROCKETS
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I could sure see this scenario
The Colts lose out and take Luck #1 and he's signed before draft day
The Rams are up next and somebody trades up and takes barclay, because they think he is the best player available and they need a quarterback.
Seattle, Tennessee, even Pittsburgh, even New England, even Dallas, Oakland, alot of possibilities.
If their are 3 qbs who people believe can be top 10 in the league, they go 1, 2, 3 bottom line.
If their are 4 they go 1-4, if their are 5 they could go 1-5, good teams just don't pass up a chance to get a QB.
Minnessota, Buffalo, The Miami Dolphins, even Tampa Bay, definatly the Jaguars, and Detroit.
There's no team that won't take a quarterback, except maybe 4 or 5 teams any year. If a quarterback is great, and they beleive in him they get him.
Well except the Browns. ( Holmgren on trading up for a qb in 2010, "Not this year")
But the Browns template for success is 4-12 seasons, not winning a division game in 8 tries and 28 of 30 losses to pittsburgh.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I wasn't quite sure I followed your post (outside of complaining about the Browns).
If I read it correctly, are you saying the following teams would trade up to the top 5 to pick Barkley?
Seattle (I agree, a possibility)
Tennessee (Jake Locker last year)
Pittsburgh (????)
New England (????)
Dallas (ok, maybe, though I think that's a long shot)
Oakland (maybe, but they're pretty invested in Palmer)
Minnesota (giving up on Ponder already?)
Buffalo (Fitzpatrick's deal means nothing?)
Dolphins (possible)
Tampa Bay (giving up on Freeman already?)
Jaguars (perhaps, but I think they stick with Gabbert and try to get him some playmakers, like I think the Rams will do)
Detroit (Stafford over the hill?????)
In other words, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
I heard that.
If Indy happens to win another game, and St. Louis loses out and St. Louis gets the #1 pick, then I think it's possible they take Luck.
However, I don't think at #2 they take a QB not named Andrew Luck.
If they are at #2, they'll take Blackmon, IMO.
I think it's possible that they take Barkley with the #2 pick if they actually have become disillusioned with Bradford and Luck has been taken by Indy. But, I actually think that Indy would be seeking to trade out if they do have the #1 spot and will take the best offer for that spot.
Can you imagine what Snider might give for that #1 pick? They'd move up wherever they end up and give up those 3 number ones (for three consecutive years) and probably a couple of #2s also.
That can get you a lot of top-notch pieces, especially if Washington would continue to pick high (and Indy could trade it out for even more picks).
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Seriously, they'd be idiots to have become disillusioned with him... just as much as Cowerd is an idiot for suggesting it. The kid is one season removed from a great rookie campaign and their whole team got blasted by injuries this year which is hurting them more than anything.
I see EXTREMELY little chance at all of them going QB. In fact, the only way I see it happening is if their entire front office got a lobotomy on the morning of draft day.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I see EXTREMELY little chance at all of them going QB. In fact, the only way I see it happening is if their entire front office got a lobotomy on the morning of draft day.
Or maybe they bring in Butch Davis as GM.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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In other words, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Based on some of the teams he thinks would trade up for a QB, it's apparent that he doesn't either! 
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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The great rookie season when he threw for 5.95 YPA and was 25th in the league in passer rating? He threw for 18TDs and 15INTs. It's not a bad rookie season, but I wouldn't call it great. Also, you'd expect him to get better from there, not worse. He's now 30th in passer rating completing 53.5% of his passes, ahead of only Blaine Gabbert.
It's not out of the question.
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Quote:
Seriously, they'd be idiots to have become disillusioned with him... just as much as Cowerd is an idiot for suggesting it. The kid is one season removed from a great rookie campaign and their whole team got blasted by injuries this year which is hurting them more than anything.
I see EXTREMELY little chance at all of them going QB. In fact, the only way I see it happening is if their entire front office got a lobotomy on the morning of draft day.
I'm not saying that I agree with it but I can see (if their fans are as fickle as Browns fans) that there are calls for Bradford's replacement. I would agree that it's moronic and idiotic to look to get rid of him. There are questions about his frailty, but he's still better than most anything else in the draft this year and with some experiences to add to it.
You might say that Bradford's experiences have been bad and he might be regressing because of it, but I think in a good system, he would be a very nice QB to have.
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I also want to point out that the browns supposedly called up the rams to trade up for Bradford unless it was just a smokescreen ...
Oh and I don't think we would trade for Bradford unless we had a guy on our staff who worked with him every day in his rookie season and knew basically everything about him .... oh wait ...
I think it would be something where St. Louis can pick up a first (maybe 2?) for Bradford to still get Blackmon or a top flight Tackle ... and then still have something else? We would get a franchise QB who could run Shurmur's offense and not have to mortgage the ENTIRE farm for him ... definitely interesting to say the least.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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why pay a QB "franchise QB" money when the team that has him now is trying to dump him off on you? and, he has looked worse than Colt this season (hence the possibility of dumping)
Bradford's contract and play this season makes him virtually untradeable (never know what a Snyder led team might do)
#gmstrong
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I'm not advocating it ... I'm just saying we would be the top destination for it.
He did "well" without any real help in 2010 with Shurmur as his Coordinator / Qb Coach. Shurmur knows him and is here now.
The Rams wouldn't be "dumping" him any more than the colts would be "dumping" manning by taking Luck and then getting what should be a top flight QB. Besides ... if they can look decent with Danny Amendola as their top receiver ... maybe Bradford could be an improvement in our offense.
Not saying we will or that we could ... but you can bet if that's the scenario the Browns would be the top assumed destination for Sam Bradford. I also think it could be a good deal if we only had to trade let's say one first and then a second?
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Quote:
why pay a QB "franchise QB" money when the team that has him now is trying to dump him off on you? and, he has looked worse than Colt this season (hence the possibility of dumping)
Bradford's contract and play this season makes him virtually untradeable (never know what a Snyder led team might do)
I think there was a legitimate medical reason he's been a little off this season.
Didn't Bradford suffer the dreaded "high ankle sprain" to his plant leg?
The Rams coaches were quoted as saying "the injury has compromised his mechanics and put more stress on his arm."
It would be unprecedented for a team to take a QB #1 overall and then ANOTHER QB #1 overall 2 years later. Bradford is a year removed from offensive rookie of the year. Unless he has irreparable damage to that ankle, it makes no sense to trade him after 1 injury riddled season.
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I don't think there's a way the Rams take Luck. I don't think they're going to give up on Bradford after 2 years, especially considering the mess that surrounds him.
Damned straight they aren't going to give up on Bradford. They've begged to find weapons for him, and they can't even put a line in front of him. He's been hobbling around on a bad wheel much of the year, and there's no hope for his supporting cast right now.
They are the NFC version of us. They lack talent and need a BIG infusion of it. If I were them, I'd do what Heck did this past draft and drop down to get more help.
They aren't quitting on Bradford. I'll put money on that one with anyone who cares to gamble. 
I like Cowherd, but he's paid to stir the pot. Don't take it as gospel.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
he's paid to stir the pot.
of course he is. His job is NOT to pass around credible thoughts and musings. His job is to keep people tuning in and to garner ratings; period.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I now know that I don't ever have to take one of your posts seriously. Ever.
What a joke.
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Updated after Week 15. We picked an excellent week to play one of our best games of the season but still lose...we gained 5 draft spots. That's HUGE. As a reminder, the SoS numbers I'm using are based on each teams schedule for the entire season as opposed to who they have played to date.  I am seeing two "worst case" scenarios emerging: 1) The draft goes 1. Indy - Luck 2. Minny - Kalil 3. Rams - Blackmon 4. Washington trades up - Barkley 5. Cleveland - ???. I want 1 of Luck, Blackmon or Barkley...if they're ALL off the board in the first 4 picks we're screwed. I guess I'd trade back at this point?? Guys that would be deserving of that spot would be Trent Richardson (no way I take a RB at 5), Riley Reiff (I'm not drafting a RT at 5), Morris Claiborne (he'd make a great pair with Haden but man CB isn't our #1 priority and there are plenty of good starting corners we can grab in the 2nd round rather than burning our top pick on one) and Quinton Coples. 2) Indy beats Jacksonville and St Louis ends up with the #1 pick. They decide to draft Luck and trade Bradford. What team has a need for a QB, has an extra 1st round pick they could trade and has a coach with an extensive knowledge of Bradford? Yeah. I can see this move a mile away...and if it happens I may never watch the Browns again. Sam freaking Bradford. I didn't like him all that much when he came out and I like him even less now. Let's put it this way. He's probably an upgrade over McCoy but not enough to warrant spending a 1st rounder plus the $$ we'd owe him. Also, I'm not sure he's much of an upgrade over Seneca. Blegh. Let's all pray neither of those scenarios actually play out!
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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What would happen if we lose out, Minnesota and St. Louis win out, and Jax and TB each win 1 game?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I'm just guessing but I think the Browns would draft 2nd
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Depending on the FO's position with Hillis is. If it's negative I'm looking at Richardson this spot or the very best DE on the board.The CB out of LSU is a possibility also.
Not sure if I'd be willing to go the Baylor QB here.
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RB is a luxury on this team right now .... a 1st round RB anyway.
I would not expect a 1st round DE ... especially a high 1st round DE, as Heckert is on record saying that you can find those guys in rounds 2-5 because of the sheer volume of players in college coming out of the 4-3. Same thing with 4-3 LB.
On a team with so many holes, I would expect us to look at QB, WR, OL, or CB with our top pick. I think that these are the areas that Heckert feels most "deserve" a 1st round grade.
It would not surprise me at all to see us go QB/WR with our 1st 2 picks. Then we might look DE, OL, LB and CB with rounds 2-4.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
RB is a luxury on this team right now .... a 1st round RB anyway.
Agreed. It's why I have no interest in Richardson no matter how good he is. A dominant RB means little in today;s NFL. Ask Minnesota, Jacksonville, Philadelphia etc.
Quote:
It would not surprise me at all to see us go QB/WR with our 1st 2 picks. Then we might look DE, OL, LB and CB with rounds 2-4.
Not only would it not surprise me either but it's what I WANT us to do. The problem is if Luck and Barkley are already off the board....we're left with one of RG3 or Landry Jones. Pass and pass. As for WR if Blackmon is off the board then we're looking at one of Floyd, Alshon Jeffery or Kendall Wright. I'd prefer Floyd or Wright but not at #5. I want one of those guys with Atlanta's pick.
As much as I WANT to go QB/WR or WR/QB there may not be a QB or WR worthy of a top 5 pick available there. That's the problem.
It's bad enough that I might even consider trading UP...even from #5, to either get ahead of StL or at least up to #4 so Washington can't jump us....then we are guaranteed one of Blackmon or Barkley.
Let's just hope Jacksonville beats Indy. That solves A LOT of our possible problems. St Louis won't get the #1 pick and we won't have to worry about them trading us Bradford. Also with the Jax win (assuming we lose out) we'd be slotted up to the #4 pick without having to do any trading...again guaranteeing us one of Blackmon or Barkley. That game is huge to us.
Last edited by GraffZ06; 12/20/11 04:13 PM.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I'm gonna cry if Minny takes MB.
Cmon Christine Ponder is awesome!
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I don't see why they would. I think it's pretty widely accepted that they want to go Matt Kalil there.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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And you can bet Gabbert will do everything he can to beat Indy. Much the same as grossman and moore are trying to make it too expensive to replace them, Gabbert doesn't want to be holding a clipboard next year, either. I bet he plays his best two games the next 2 weeks.
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Quote:
I'm gonna cry if Minny takes MB.
Cmon Christine Ponder is awesome!
Christine Ponder might be awesome...Christian, not so much. 
Just bustin your chops!
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm gonna cry if Minny takes MB.
Cmon Christine Ponder is awesome!
Christine Ponder might be awesome...Christian, not so much.
Just bustin your chops!
That first game he played against GB he looked really good, but he has really regressed. Now he's not even getting all the snaps. He throws a really nice ball but his decision making is pretty bad right now.
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1st String
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How about Jonathan Martin (T Standford). With the new CBA limits on rookie contracts, we could play him at Right and have studs at both tackle positions (and Martin grades out as a + run blocker too). I wouldn't have a problem with that pick, as that big of an upgrade over Pashos would likely have a big immediate impact.
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Quote:
Let's just hope Jacksonville beats Indy. That solves A LOT of our possible problems. St Louis won't get the #1 pick and we won't have to worry about them trading us Bradford. Also with the Jax win (assuming we lose out) we'd be slotted up to the #4 pick without having to do any trading...again guaranteeing us one of Blackmon or Barkley. That game is huge to us.
there is a misconception that if indi wins, the rams get the first pick. This is wrong. A 2-14 Indi is still the odds on favorite for the first pick, with the vikes an outside chance at it. The rams are pretty much stuck at three, the way i understand it anyways.
But yes, i hope the jags beat the colts, that bumps us to 4, as long as we don't do something stupid like win a meaningless game- but i doubt that the ravens or steelers will allow that to happen.
Now, if the vikes ended up with the number one- i do think they would listen to a trade. They still have a veteran core, and extra picks would fix the line and secondary.
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I want us to go get RG3 .... so I would be perfectly fine if another team took Barkley.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ugh.
So you're ok drafting ANOTHER spread QB with major question marks about his accuracy and ability to read defenses? He has a strong arm and throws a good deep ball, I'll give you that...of course we only run 4 yard routes so I don't see how that helps us.
He has more of chance of becoming the next Troy Smith than he does the next Michael Vick IMO. That's not very high praise considering I wouldn't even want the real Michael Vick as our QB.
If we draft RG3 I might literally throw up in my mouth.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Maybe I'm seeing the wrong clips, but RG3's deep balls won't work in the NFL outside of the every now and again.
If we take him, I'll be upset ... he may work out, and I'm probably the last opinion to listen to on this ... but I'm not seeing it right now.
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Question marks about his accuracy?
Everything I have seen on him, and everything I have read about him tout his accuracy as a strength. He hits his receivers at all levels. He can throw up the field, and to the outside with accurate throws.
He seems to see the field well, even under pressure. He makes throws with touch to all levels of the field. He has mobility to get away from pressure, and the ability to maintain his concentration down the field. He is an immensely intelligent kid, and has already started his Masters work in his redshirt junior year, after graduating with a double degree.
I like everything about this kid except for his height. I hope that he's our newest member of the Browns come next April.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Maybe I'm seeing the wrong clips, but RG3's deep balls won't work in the NFL outside of the every now and again.
If we take him, I'll be upset ... he may work out, and I'm probably the last opinion to listen to on this ... but I'm not seeing it right now.
who's deep balls work more than "every now and again".. you act like its easy.
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Thanks for keeping this updated Graff.. hopefully soon enough we won't have to have have threads like this. Just a heads up, New England has the Saints' first round pick from the Mark Ingram trade.
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Quote:
Quote:
Maybe I'm seeing the wrong clips, but RG3's deep balls won't work in the NFL outside of the every now and again.
If we take him, I'll be upset ... he may work out, and I'm probably the last opinion to listen to on this ... but I'm not seeing it right now.
who's deep balls work more than "every now and again".. you act like its easy.
I think it's far easier to do in college than in the pros, yes.
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Every single thing is easier to do in college than in the pros.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Last two Heckert drafts he's attacked a position group
2010: Secondary
2011: D-line
2012: ?
With where we pick and what our needs are, I don't see a double dip this year unless it's with 1B and 2 at LB. secondary (CB/S), or WR. There's a possibility that we could also go WR at 1A and 2 but my guess it's going to be 3 unique position groups.
My assumption is we'll end up at # 4 as we lose out and Jacksonville beats Indy....I'm one of the few that doesn't like Barkley but I could also see a scenario where Miami and/or Washington makes a play to move up to get him with Minn or Rams. Let's say it's the Rams b/c while they need more weapons, I see Minn not wanting to miss on Kalil
1. Indy - Luck
2. Minn - Kalil
3. Miami - Barkely (new coach, new ownership need to make splash and does this guy look like he should play anywhere else then South Beach?)
4. Browns - Blackmon
To be honest, I like Blackmon ALOT but I like him a lot around 8-10 b/c he doesn't have that elite size/speed and that concerns me b/c I think the only time you go top 5 receiver is if it's a Megatron/Andre Johnson type. He reminds me so much of Bolden which would be great, but is that #4 value?
The problem is this draft doesn't have a lot of top end value IMO. If you can't get Luck or Kalil then I think everyone else is a grade 8-15 draft pick
enough rambling...
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part IV
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