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Why not put the current teams in the playoffs based upon their seeds. Houston would be getting the #31 selection, not Putzburgh and there would be several other changes too.
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I don't see them moving Steinbach back into the starting role at 32. (?) There is no future there.
I think that they want to develop this young line into a power in a couple of years ..... if not sooner.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't see them moving Steinbach back into the starting role at 32. (?) There is no future there.
I think that they want to develop this young line into a power in a couple of years ..... if not sooner.
Maybe you're right, but I don't think that Steinbach back at LG hurts us. It would improve the OL if he were in there. Maybe getting the young players some experience would be a good idea, but I still think we need a replacement for Lauvao.
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Why not put the current teams in the playoffs based upon their seeds. Houston would be getting the #31 selection, not Putzburgh and there would be several other changes too.
Because that portion will all shake itself out based on the playoff game results anyway. Seeding really doesn't matter at all at this point.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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I don't see them moving Steinbach back into the starting role at 32. (?) There is no future there.
I think that they want to develop this young line into a power in a couple of years ..... if not sooner.
Maybe you're right, but I don't think that Steinbach back at LG hurts us. It would improve the OL if he were in there. Maybe getting the young players some experience would be a good idea, but I still think we need a replacement for Lauvao.
Lauvoa has gotten somewhat better as the year has gone on. He's not perfect by any stretch, but he is improving. That's what coaches and front offices want to see.
What does reinserting Steinbach for a year do for the line? (if he is even able to come all the way back?) Steinbach had back surgery. That isn't some 100% certain proposition to start with. He's going to be 32 next year. That's getting up there for a football player. He will be very expensive.
I think that he can still help a team, but I question whether or not the front office will have any great desire to blow up the OL to reinsert a 32 year old guy coming off back surgery unless they have to. Further, the only revolving door this year has been at RT. I'm sure that they are looking forward to finding a young RT and having the same OL work together for a couple of years, and grow together for a couple of years. (hopefully)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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No suggestions here just looking for some thoughts from you guys.
Let's presume Steiny comes back healthy. Is there any way he replaces Pashos and we keep the current other 4 either:
1 - as the new RT
2 - returns to LG and Pinkston moves to RT
3 - returns to LG, Pinkston moves to RG, Lauvao moves to RT
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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I opined that Steinbach might fit in at RT for a year, depending on what other moves they make.
I just do not see them making changes on the rest of the line.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I don't see them moving Steinbach back into the starting role at 32. (?) There is no future there.
I think that they want to develop this young line into a power in a couple of years ..... if not sooner.
Hard to say with Steiny.
On the surface, he's very much more suited to the WCO than some of the things we've done in the past, and if he's back from injury, he's probably still viewed as a solid starter.
The flipside is that his cap number is going to be over $7 million, and he is coming back from injury.
The final factor in deciding if he's going to be back may be how far the Browns are willing to go in free agency and the draft. If we cut him, we'll need at least two upgrades, and potentially three. I'm not as enamored with Pinky as some are. He still looks like a backup to me, at least for the near future. It would also be wise to consider that Lerner operates with a budget, so bringing back a 32-year old player coming off of injury and making $6 million may not be worth it.
We could really go either way with him, but If you put a gun to my head and told me to make a prediction, I'd say they'd bring him back to start. There's zero chance he's back as a reserve.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Why not put the current teams in the playoffs based upon their seeds. Houston would be getting the #31 selection, not Putzburgh and there would be several other changes too.
Because that portion will all shake itself out based on the playoff game results anyway. Seeding really doesn't matter at all at this point.
But it's deceptive and as it stands now, if Putzburgh were playing against Denver, I seriously doubt that they'd get out of there with a win.
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You sound like you think 32 is old? OL often play well into their mid-30's, and Steinbach is our second best OL guy. I recall reading when the Browns signed him that not only was he an All-Pro guard, he would immediately become the second best LT on the team. At best, you have a rock solid left side from LT to C. At worst, you're keeping quality depth in case Joe T goes down.
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It really depends on where Steinbach is injury wise (something none of us know)
I can't really see him sticking at $7million/year - I think he would have to take a sizable paycut.
If he isn't willing, I'd much rather cut him, and then pay a guy like a Carl Nicks 5year $50 million - you'd get a better player who could contribute over a longer term.
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Lauvoa has gotten somewhat better as the year has gone on. He's not perfect by any stretch, but he is improving. That's what coaches and front offices want to see.
I'm not convinced of that, but let's say your right and that Lauvao has improved. Replacing him with someone like DeCastro would clear up the problems at G for a long while and Lauvao can be used as depth.
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What does reinserting Steinbach for a year do for the line? (if he is even able to come all the way back?) Steinbach had back surgery. That isn't some 100% certain proposition to start with. He's going to be 32 next year. That's getting up there for a football player. He will be very expensive.
If Steinbach doesn't come back, drafting a G is even more important and Pinkston has been doing a nice job as Steinbach's replacement.
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I think that he can still help a team, but I question whether or not the front office will have any great desire to blow up the OL to reinsert a 32 year old guy coming off back surgery unless they have to.
A 32 year old OL isn't all that old and could well have several years of productive service to remain.
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Further, the only revolving door this year has been at RT. I'm sure that they are looking forward to finding a young RT and having the same OL work together for a couple of years, and grow together for a couple of years. (hopefully)
I don't disagree about the RT being referred to as a revolving door (although that's an insult to revolving doors). I would add a RG to the mix because taken as a pair, they're sliding doors, opening up holes for the defense to run through.
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You sound like you think 32 is old? OL often play well into their mid-30's, and Steinbach is our second best OL guy. I recall reading when the Browns signed him that not only was he an All-Pro guard, he would immediately become the second best LT on the team. At best, you have a rock solid left side from LT to C. At worst, you're keeping quality depth in case Joe T goes down.
However, for whatever reason, the Browns have looked at replacement types for him for a couple of years now in pre-season. He is the one player who has been sat down while others work in his spot.
I think that the Browns like the current, young LT-RG alignment, and want it to grow together, and that may leave Steinbach out. That's my bet ...... if I were a betting man. Steinbach is set to make over $12 million over the next 2 years. I just don't see them bringing him back for that price tag, coming off back surgery, and at his age. Too many factors working against him IMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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My problem is that I'm not on board with Heckerts talent evaluations for THIS team..
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We have so many holes to fill that cutting a guy like Steinbach - even at his salary - would be silly. Yeah...he's 32...and just got a full year to recover. He's still got the feet/skills to pull and we just moved to a scheme that should fit him. I pencil him in at LG for another two years...Lavauo and Pinkston can fight it out for RG - unless we get DeCastro  and/or Pinkston competes with the new RT. Thomas-Steiny-Mack-DeCastro-WSU Willie If we upgrade the short, fat guy at RT, we could be tough.
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We'll see what happens. My gut tells me that Steinbach has played his last for the Browns.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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We'll see what happens. My gut tells me that Steinbach has played his last for the Browns.
Really? I thought I read somewhere that he is already back at the facility working out, recovery has gone better than expected. Would be a huge loss if we don't get him back. Pinkston hasn't been horrible, but Steinbach was considered one of the better as his position.
I understand the youth movement with this team and everything, but it would be a crushing loss.
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Perhaps. I just found this: http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=294Steinbach Works Out Dec 15, 2011 -- 1:00pm By Will Burge Coming into the 2011 season, the Browns’ offensive line was regarded as one of, if not the best in football. Billy Yates retiring hurt the depth of the line but no injury changed the dynamic in the trenches more than Eric Steinbach’s season ending back injury. Some people had speculated that Steinbach may consider retirement after such a major surgery. The operation removed a loose, unattached bone fragment wedge on the spinal cord nerves. As serious as that surgery was, it seems as though Steinbach is trying to work his way back into the fold for the 2012 Cleveland Browns’ season. A source close to the situation told me that at the very same time the Browns were warming up on Heinz Field in Pittsburgh last Thursday, Steinbach was working out with strength and conditioning coaches in the field house in Berea. The source said Steinbach was pulling sleds, doing core training, and some light jogging. This doesn’t seem like the craziest workout known to man but considering Eric had major back surgery less than four months ago, it bodes well for his return to the football field. If Steinbach is healthy in 2012 it would be a huge boost to the Browns’ offensive line. He would most likely assume the starting left guard position which would allow the Browns to move Pinkston to right tackle, where they originally envisioned him playing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I could definitely see Steinbach back with the Browns next year, but he would have to take a pay cut. Nobody is paying him $6million+ next year, for the reasons you mentioned.
That's just how the NFL works.
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Perhaps.
I just found this:
http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=294
Steinbach Works Out
Dec 15, 2011 -- 1:00pm
By Will Burge
Coming into the 2011 season, the Browns’ offensive line was regarded as one of, if not the best in football. Billy Yates retiring hurt the depth of the line but no injury changed the dynamic in the trenches more than Eric Steinbach’s season ending back injury.
Some people had speculated that Steinbach may consider retirement after such a major surgery. The operation removed a loose, unattached bone fragment wedge on the spinal cord nerves.
As serious as that surgery was, it seems as though Steinbach is trying to work his way back into the fold for the 2012 Cleveland Browns’ season.
A source close to the situation told me that at the very same time the Browns were warming up on Heinz Field in Pittsburgh last Thursday, Steinbach was working out with strength and conditioning coaches in the field house in Berea.
The source said Steinbach was pulling sleds, doing core training, and some light jogging.
This doesn’t seem like the craziest workout known to man but considering Eric had major back surgery less than four months ago, it bodes well for his return to the football field.
If Steinbach is healthy in 2012 it would be a huge boost to the Browns’ offensive line. He would most likely assume the starting left guard position which would allow the Browns to move Pinkston to right tackle, where they originally envisioned him playing.
Interesting comment about Pinkston. I think this year's experience will help him next year if the Browns do indeed move him out to the RT spot.
If the Browns can get DeCastro, I would still take him. Lauvao isn't the answer at RG.
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Ryan Lindley is very impressive
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If you're looking to draft someone to be a back-up, it's okay. I like his height/size.
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with an offense as putrid as ours.. and a defense that has quite a few holes.. why would anyone want to invest a first round pick on a Guard? I'm not understanding that.
I can see getting a tackle in the first to put at RT.. still debatable, but I'd do that over getting a guard.
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with an offense as putrid as ours.. and a defense that has quite a few holes.. why would anyone want to invest a first round pick on a Guard? I'm not understanding that.
Because DeCastro is the best OL in this draft (yes, and I include Matt Kalil in that assessment) and we need a quality guard on the right side. We also need a quality RT, but we can't run the ball inside worth a damn.
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I can see getting a tackle in the first to put at RT.. still debatable, but I'd do that over getting a guard.
I would almost never take a RT in the first round unless my QB was a southpaw thrower.
I like Levy Adcock or Nate Potter in the third round.
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If Steinbach is healthy in 2012 it would be a huge boost to the Browns’ offensive line. He would most likely assume the starting left guard position which would allow the Browns to move Pinkston to right tackle, where they originally envisioned him playing.
jc..
I do believe I mentioned the very same scenario, described above...
Some seem to believe that Pinkston does not have the skills to play RT but you don't play 4 years at a major college at LT without having some skills to play the position.
A lot could happen between now and next season, but if Steinie returns, I look for Pinkston to take over at RT. Also, I could see the Browns retaining Pashos, if healthy and using him as depth for OG as well as OT. Lauvao and Pashos could battle for the RG spot.
If Steinie returns healthy, and the Browns Oline continues to improve, the Browns might bypass the Oline in the draft. The Browns might be looking at RBs, WRs, and QBs on offense and LB, CB and Dline on defense.
It becomes a matter of too many positions of need for the Browns to address all in the upcoming draft. Heckert will be forced to prioritize and address some of the areas of need via the draft while addressing other areas via free agency.
...imo..mac
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I would almost never take a RT in the first round unless my QB was a southpaw thrower.
I like Levy Adcock or Nate Potter in the third round.
I agree that DeCastro is awesome - but you would take an OG but not an RT based on value? That seems backwards.
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If Steinbach is healthy in 2012 it would be a huge boost to the Browns’ offensive line. He would most likely assume the starting left guard position which would allow the Browns to move Pinkston to right tackle, where they originally envisioned him playing.
jc..
I do believe I mentioned the very same scenario, described above...
I believe you did.
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Some seem to believe that Pinkston does not have the skills to play RT but you don't play 4 years at a major college at LT without having some skills to play the position.
I think he might do well enough at RT, but I like him as depth in the G and T positions. That's why I suggested taking either Adcock or Potter in the 3rd round. I like them. Even if you move Pinkston to RT, then you have Adcock or Potter as depth. You might take a flyer on a RT later in the draft (5th round like Pinkston) and use him as a back-up G/T and use that 3rd round pick on someone else.
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A lot could happen between now and next season, but if Steinie returns, I look for Pinkston to take over at RT. Also, I could see the Browns retaining Pashos, if healthy and using him as depth for OG as well as OT. Lauvao and Pashos could battle for the RG spot.
This is where we diverge. I prefer to use Pinkston as the depth and if you're intent on keeping Lauvao, you keep him as further depth, then fine but I let Pashos go.
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If Steinie returns healthy, and the Browns Oline continues to improve, the Browns might bypass the Oline in the draft. The Browns might be looking at RBs, WRs, and QBs on offense and LB, CB and Dline on defense.
I hope they're looking at every position, but to bypass the OL in the draft would be suicide. You have to improve it. We've got nothing on the right side. Pashos is junk and my view of Lauvao isn't any better.
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It becomes a matter of too many positions of need for the Browns to address all in the upcoming draft. Heckert will be forced to prioritize and address some of the areas of need via the draft while addressing other areas via free agency.
I'm not sure that they can address very man of them in free agency without overpaying. If they're going to do that, I'd much rather they get some legitimate offensive weapons for McCoy.
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I would almost never take a RT in the first round unless my QB was a southpaw thrower.
I like Levy Adcock or Nate Potter in the third round.
I agree that DeCastro is awesome - but you would take an OG but not an RT based on value? That seems backwards.
Value? We can't run the ball inside at all. Furthermore, I think that DeCastro is the best OL in the draft, no matter whether G or T.
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What I'm saying is that if the best OLman was a tackle, you said that you wouldn't draft him because you'd never take an RT in the draft.
I understand that the best tackles are usually put at LT, but if the OG position is worth a first round pick based on position, then so is the RT position (which is certainly more valuable than OG.)
If we're drafting in the 4-5 range at Matt Kalil is sitting there, you have to take him.
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What I'm saying is that if the best OLman was a tackle, you said that you wouldn't draft him because you'd never take an RT in the draft.
Not quite. I wouldn't take a RT in the first round of the draft unless my QB was a southpaw. I would be taking a LT in the first round and I wouldn't be expecting (like Oakland had) of savaging what I could from such a pick and moving him to the right side.
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I understand that the best tackles are usually put at LT, but if the OG position is worth a first round pick based on position, then so is the RT position (which is certainly more valuable than OG.)
Not in my view. Your interior linemen are more important than the RT when you're trying to run the ball inside and to protect your QB from the inside pass rush. I'll take a guard capable of pulling than a run-of-the-mill RT. I'm not looking to draft an NFL quality LT to play RT. I'm just not doing it.
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If we're drafting in the 4-5 range at Matt Kalil is sitting there, you have to take him.
Why? See above. I'm not drafting an NFL quality LT to play RT. I'd trade down first or make a different selection.
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Not in my view. Your interior linemen are more important than the RT when you're trying to run the ball inside and to protect your QB from the inside pass rush. I'll take a guard capable of pulling than a run-of-the-mill RT. I'm not looking to draft an NFL quality LT to play RT. I'm just not doing it.
so what about when you want to run outside? and what about protecting the outside blitz? I mean your logic isn't making sense to me.
Teams that are pretty good can afford to spend a first round pick on a Guard.. we cannot. Now if he ranks high on your board, and everyone you had above him has been selected.. then sure b/c he's your BPA.. but other than that.. I'm not getting a guard in the 1st..
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Not in my view. Your interior linemen are more important than the RT when you're trying to run the ball inside and to protect your QB from the inside pass rush. I'll take a guard capable of pulling than a run-of-the-mill RT. I'm not looking to draft an NFL quality LT to play RT. I'm just not doing it.
Why is your RT suddenly run of the mill? RTs can also be great.
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Why? See above. I'm not drafting an NFL quality LT to play RT. I'd trade down first or make a different selection.
Then maybe we should play him at OG instead of RT - then he would be worth it? He'd be a much better interior pass blocker than DeCastro
I don't disagree that DeCastro is the most physically dominant, but he is not the most valuable, Kalil is (not just because of position, he has much better feet than DeCastro). Kalil is also more valuable playing RT than DeCastro is playing OG, because RTs are nearly as valuable as LTs in this league, where defenses always shift to attack the weak side.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 12/18/11 04:13 PM.
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so what about when you want to run outside? and what about protecting the outside blitz? I mean your logic isn't making sense to me.
If you want to run outside, a pulling guard can help in that regard.
That's why I'd like to draft a RT in the 3rd round. If the Browns want to move Pinkston to the RT spot, I'm not opposed to it, but drafting depth (and no, I wouldn't bring Pashos back) later in the draft.
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Teams that are pretty good can afford to spend a first round pick on a Guard.. we cannot.
I've already brought up the fact that the SF drafted Mike Iupati (LG) in the first round. They also drafted Anthony Davis (RT) in the same first round. Last that I checked, they've done alright for themselves two years later.
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Now if he ranks high on your board, and everyone you had above him has been selected.. then sure b/c he's your BPA.. but other than that.. I'm not getting a guard in the 1st..
I'm taking the best OL in the first round if he's available and I believe that the need is desperate at that position.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
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Why is your RT suddenly run of the mill? RTs can also be great.
You're right that right tackles can be great. But I'm looking at taking the best OL in the draft and getting him further down in the draft. I'm also trying to obtain additional picks to do it.
Now, with that said, if you had an offensive weapon is there and you want them, I'm not going to complain. We obviously need them. For example, if Blackmon is there or Trent Richardson is there, then I'm okay with it. I don't really like it, but I understand the thinking process. I still think that fixing that OL for years to come is better than getting a high profile receiver (they come out every year) or running back. You can get them later in the draft and they'll need an adequate OL for them to run behind.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
that's funny, Heckert said himself that they drafted Pinkston to play guard.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,003 Likes: 370
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,003 Likes: 370 |
Quote:
that's funny, Heckert said himself that they drafted Pinkston to play guard.
I thought so too.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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If we can get up to the #4 spot behind Indianapolis, St. Louis, Minnesota, we're going to get our Quarterback. Barkley?
I hate to bring up something Colin Cowherd (  ) just said, but has anybody thought of the possibility that St.Louis loses faith in Bradford and takes one of the big 2 QBs?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I heard that.
If Indy happens to win another game, and St. Louis loses out and St. Louis gets the #1 pick, then I think it's possible they take Luck.
However, I don't think at #2 they take a QB not named Andrew Luck.
If they are at #2, they'll take Blackmon, IMO.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
I don't think there's a way the Rams take Luck. I don't think they're going to give up on Bradford after 2 years, especially considering the mess that surrounds him.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,391 |
Not just that but Bradford was also the last one to get a "really big money" #1 draft pick contract. It's not trade friendly and I just can't see STL investing that much money into 1 position or having one of the highest paid people in the NFL be your backup QB.
I just can't fathom anyone taking on Bradford's massive contract in a trade and I can't see STL keeping him on the bench for what they are paying him. The only other option is to release him and that would accelerate his signing bonus to next year's cap number, effectively crushing their ability to sign anyone.
St Louis isn't taking a QB with their pick. Cowherd is a knucklehead who doesn't think things through. He just like to throw things out there to get people talking and get ratings.
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*In Baker we trust*
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part IV
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