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Maybe I'm seeing the wrong clips, but RG3's deep balls won't work in the NFL outside of the every now and again.
If we take him, I'll be upset ... he may work out, and I'm probably the last opinion to listen to on this ... but I'm not seeing it right now.
Griffin has the best deep ball in the draft. He doesn't have a rocket arm, but his deep ball is fantastic.
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Barkley has the best deep ball accuracy of all the QBs. Just seems to drop that ball in with no effort. Last year it was the worst.
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Geep accuracy is not necessarily the same thing as a good deep ball. Barkley floats his deep passes a bit, while RG3's are thrown on a line.
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I've seen more of Griffin than Barkley, but I've seen the deep ball as a strength for both. Griffin's is automatic, though. It's ridiculous. If we draft Griffin, we must draft wright or sign Jackson or draft someone else with crazy speed or we lose out on a key advantage griffin brings.
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I've seen people compare Hilton to Randall Cobb. He is not built like him and he is less of a short route WR. However he is a more dynamic in-space guy. He is also a better returner. He also has similar potential impact though.
Curry looked very stiff. He had high pad level to me. He could be a great SDE in 4-3 though. He needs to more to his frame. He is definately a 2nd round guy.
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If we draft RG3 I might literally throw up in my mouth.
Me too...Barf...
Let Washington experiment with this kid...I'm pretty confident Holmgren sees a QB who's hit or miss with Griffin...And u do not go that route at 4 or 5 in ANY draft...This is what u call a HYPE Machine...
All I can say is we best not play over our heads the next 2 weeks and win one of these meaningless games to take us out of the QB sweepstakes...This isn't a Locker/Gabbert/Ponder year...NONE of those 3 shoulda even been 1st rounders last year...It's the PREMIUM put on QB's in the NFL that drove those 3 up the order...
This year there are 2 bonafide QB's that u take and run with...Luck & Barkley...
The more this sinks in the more Luck looks unattainable...Unless we are so hot on the guy that we offer whoever at 1 a serious package...And they can't pass on it with the plan of getting Barkley instead and some major extra picks...If we go that route SUPERB...
If not...We can still get Barkley easily...Both the Rams and Minny need WR and LT help...Just so happens there's a top tier WR and LT available in Blackmon and Kalil...It's not Calculus to figure out that the team that drops to 4 is gonna have one or the other sitting there...
I'd bet either Minny or the Rams would take our 2 firsts and one other pick (Our Atlanta 4th????) to move down a couple spots and we get our QB...This is almost a MUST DO for this team because we will go NOWHERE until we secure a QB who will immediately become the Kosar type face of this franchise...
Go Browns!!!
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I think that is the route we take as well.
We are making a move up.
First we offer the Colts and see if that is even possible.
That would take this years firsts, next years first, and another high pick this year....maybe the 3rd rounder. Then the Colts would at least listen.
Then we make a play for the 2nd pick.
I am not sure what that will cost since there might be some demand to get in to that position.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Question marks about his accuracy?
Everything I have seen on him, and everything I have read about him tout his accuracy as a strength. He hits his receivers at all levels. He can throw up the field, and to the outside with accurate throws.
He seems to see the field well, even under pressure. He makes throws with touch to all levels of the field. He has mobility to get away from pressure, and the ability to maintain his concentration down the field. He is an immensely intelligent kid, and has already started his Masters work in his redshirt junior year, after graduating with a double degree.
I like everything about this kid except for his height. I hope that he's our newest member of the Browns come next April.
Wait! You like the accuracy that you see from RG3 but you complain that McCoy isn't accurate? Based on college production, McCoy is more accurate and ran the system that we supposedly call our offense.
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When I saw RG3 play, passes were in the hands of his receivers, not just "in the neighborhood". It wasn't college accuracy, but more focused on hitting the guy in stride, in his hands, and allowing him to make a play with the ball.
This is exactly and precisely the biggest problem McCoy has. He may get the ball to a receiver, but he rarely gives the receiver an opportunity to make a play after the catch. His deep ball is horrible. He gets it in the area ....... but his receivers usually have to stop, come back, wait, and battle the defender for the ball.
I will say that he did throw 1 or 2 nice back shoulder passes earlier this year. That's not enough though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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For what its worth, I was watching Mike and Mike in the morning and they were discussing the 1st overall pick. Consensus was that if the Colts get the #1 pick they take Luck but if the Rams manage to "earn" the 1st pick that they would trade it.
Adam Schefter chimes in and suggests that if that was the case the approximate value to trade up for that pick would be three 1st rounders AND two 2nd rounders. Perhaps four 1st rounders.
I think this takes it to another level from our prior discussions of three 1st rounders.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown.
Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Adam Schefter chimes in and suggests that if that was the case the approximate value to trade up for that pick would be three 1st rounders AND two 2nd rounders. Perhaps four 1st rounders.
Different 1st rounders have different values though. For instance, us at hopefully number 4. I'd think that our two 1st round picks plus next year's 1st round has to be enough to get him if we really want him. Number 4 would give the Colts/Rams a choice of one of the top 5 guys in the draft.
I'm not sure I'd trade up to get Matt Barkley though......... But if he's there when we pick, i'd have trouble not picking him. He sounds like a good fit to me. Def don't want RG3. In many ways, I wouldn't mind staying where we are (assuming we're 4) and choosing between Barkley, Richardson, and Blackmon. My number 1 would be Barkley, 2 would be Richardson, 3 would be Blackmon. But I need to watch more on Blackmon before that decision is made.
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We could probably get away with offering a slightly less package, right? 2 first rounders this year gives you immediate impact.
My guess is, if Indy did want to trade this pick, they aren't looking toward the future, they have Peyton Manning who has a few good years left, and they are gunning for another SB.
I still think the odds of them dealing the pick aren't good, but if they do have any interest, we have to be one of the top teams they would be looking at.
Three 1's and two 2's might be asking too much, but I guess if the guy pans out nobody will complain.
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Three 1's and two 2's might be asking too much, but I guess if the guy pans out nobody will complain.
I dunno, that's asking a lot if you ask me, no matter who it is............
I'd consider 3 1st rounders, but we'd have to be absolutely sure on the guy. But the 2's. That's a lot. May be 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders even. But that's as far as I'd go for pretty much anyone.
I mean, Andrew Luck could get a flag thrown in his eye by some idiot referee for all we know.
I'm thinking Matt Barkely or Trent Richardson and our 2nd 1st round pick on a RT
Another interesting option at WR IMO is this guy Mohamed Sanu out of Rutgers Univ. I've seen him for the past couple years and he's pretty good. And Rutgers doesn't run a high powered offense with these top notch Big12 QBs or anything. I dunno where he'll be picked, but I definitely am interested in him. May be 2nd or 3rd round? I don't really know where people have him pegged, but I have seen him a bit and he's always been good. I remember when he was a freshman, he was very highly regarded
-Edit: Not looking so good on this Sanu guy, just typed his name into Google and it says that he is probably going to stay for his senior season at Rutgers. Not good for UConn either...........
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 12/21/11 10:06 AM.
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Colts are already preparing fans for life after Manning. Sending out these little rumors that they might be releasing him is all part of the public perception game. Peyton is preparing for life after Colts as he is now no longer working out with the team.
The good thing is that with Peyton out in the market it will take a quarterback needy team off the table. Miami seems like the type of team for Peyton Manning. Pretty good OL with Jake Long at LT, Reggie Bush and Brandon Marshall as weapons.
Right now I would say
Luck = Colts
Manning=Phins
Barkley=Browns
RG3= Redskins
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What if the Browns end up with the 2nd pick in the draft, as far fetched as it may seem?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I try to trade down and snag some extra picks!!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Matt Barkley=Mark Sanchez
RG3=Warren Moon
Lock the thread.
Seriously, with 3 picks in the top 40, man, my pants are gettin' tighter. But the bigger factor this year as opposed to last year in terms of what Heck might do revolves around his comments about free agency.
Unlike last season where we had no intention of spending big dollars, he's flat-out said he's going to dive into the free agent market this off-season. How he views that as a fix will have a great impact on where we go in the draft.
It's just too soon to even remotely predict which way he'll go. In terms of contracts and skill going into 2012, we need help at LITERALLY every single position on both sides of the ball.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Seriously, with 3 picks in the top 40, man, my pants are gettin' tighter.
I don't see why having 3 picks in the top 40 makes you gain weight?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I don't think there is a huge difference between Luck and Barkley. Hell right now I would say Barkley is the better QB but Luck has the prototypical QB size. At 2 we would still take Barkley.
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Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, with 3 picks in the top 40, man, my pants are gettin' tighter.
I don't see why having 3 picks in the top 40 makes you gain weight?
I've always had a great appreciation for your sense of humor. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't think there is a huge difference between Luck and Barkley. Hell right now I would say Barkley is the better QB but Luck has the prototypical QB size. At 2 we would still take Barkley.
Whats the heighth and weight difference? I'd like a big old hod!!!
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Luck will go 6-4 probably 235-240
Barkley 6-2 220
RG3 6-2 220 looks smaller
Tannehill 6-4 225
Jones 6-4 230
EJ manuel 6-4 245
Nick Foles 6-5 240
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Quote:
Luck will go 6-4 probably 235-240
Barkley 6-2 220
RG3 6-2 220 looks smaller
Tannehill 6-4 225
Jones 6-4 230
EJ manuel 6-4 245
Nick Foles 6-5 240
if we're posting heights and weights, don't forget Brock. He's disappointed after some good early season showings, but the dude is huge (and athletic).
6'8" 240lbs
i'm hoping he goes back to school and figures stuff out though.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Luck will go 6-4 probably 235-240
Barkley 6-2 220
RG3 6-2 220 looks smaller
Tannehill 6-4 225
Jones 6-4 230
EJ manuel 6-4 245
Nick Foles 6-5 240
Granted, we're talking percentage's of inches here, but I don't believe either Barkely or RG3 are gonna get to 6'2. That also represents one of the reasons why I'm pro-RG3 when choosing between the two. I don't want a short pocket-passer. If the guy is short, I want him mobile.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Theres' a few big boys in that mix! Thnx Mourg!
Im tired of batted down passes this year. I dont want some fat, gourd head like Jamarcus Russel but I want the guy to be able to take a shot when it happens.
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A good QB finds lanes to throw through.
How many passes did Wallace have batted down against a pretty good Arizona pass rush? (and he's really short .... like my height short)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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When I saw RG3 play, passes were in the hands of his receivers, not just "in the neighborhood". It wasn't college accuracy, but more focused on hitting the guy in stride, in his hands, and allowing him to make a play with the ball.
Maybe we should draft RG3's receivers and see what happens.
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Maybe we should draft RG3's receivers and see what happens.
Somebody is going to do that - at least with Kendall Wright
~Lyuokdea
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Maybe we should draft RG3's receivers and see what happens.
I thought Terrance Williams was impressive in the games I saw. Griffin had really good skill position players around him, but with an awful O-Line. They had 4 receivers with TD catches over 60 yards.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/239/baylor-bears
Ganaway is a tough RB as well... I'm interested to see how he does in the pros. Real big guy (6' 240#). Can't put my finger on who he reminds me of. Maybe it's the offense but he kind of reminds me of a bigger Jeremiah Johnson. He's got really good speed and power. Doesn't make a whole lot of moves. Very sturdy frame. Maybe a lesser Steven Jackson? Anybody know what round he might go?
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Quote:
Maybe I'm seeing the wrong clips, but RG3's deep balls won't work in the NFL outside of the every now and again.
If we take him, I'll be upset ... he may work out, and I'm probably the last opinion to listen to on this ... but I'm not seeing it right now.
Griffin has the best deep ball in the draft. He doesn't have a rocket arm, but his deep ball is fantastic.
You would probably know better than me, but from the clips I watched, most of his deep passes looked like floaters.
Maybe I should watch more.
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I've seen him rainbow it many times, but he does it with such accuracy at such distance that it's indefensible. Even if a guy is covered the defender can't get to the ball. that's how you end up with 4 receivers with TDs over 60 yards, and how they led the nation in TD drives under 2 minutes.
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I'd like to see an updated Draft chart from GraffZ06 pls...
I like looking at that comprehensive chart. It helps me to see things in black and white.
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I usually like to wait until all the games for the week are done before I update so I wasn't going to post anything until after the MNF game this week. But...it's Christmas so here you go  . I'll update again on Monday night. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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If the Browns lose on Sunday, they will pick 3rd or 4th. A Minnesota victory over the Bears gives us the 3rd pick and all but guarantees Robert Griffin, Justin Blackmon and everyone other than Andrew Luck and Matt Kalil will be available.
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Thank you so much. This is helpful to me. In addition to this.. on the other draft thread there is a post citing ESPN Stats & Information letting us know that if we lose to the squealers and the Vikes beat Chicago.. we are on the # 3 spot.
I assume that means if we lose AND the Vikes lose we are # 4
Hmm.. I never want to lose to the damn squealers.
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If we can get to 3, it really increases the odds of a trade up for 1. According to the trusty value chart
#1 = 3000pts
#3 = 2200
#24= 740
Throw in our 4th worth a 100 pts and wo hoo. Teams tend to stay fairly close to the chart.
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Quote:
If the Browns lose on Sunday, they will pick 3rd or 4th. A Minnesota victory over the Bears gives us the 3rd pick and all but guarantees Robert Griffin, Justin Blackmon and everyone other than Andrew Luck and Matt Kalil will be available.
That's not true, we would still be five if Indy wins?
~Lyuokdea
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Yeah if Indy beats Jax we will still be behind the Jags.
So our scenarios are:
1) Browns lose + Minny wins + Jax wins = we pick 3rd
2) Browns lose + Minny wins + Jax loses = we pick 4th (behind Jax but ahead of Minny)
3) Browns lose + Minny loses + Jax loses = we pick 5th just like now
4) Browns lose + Minny loses + Jax wins = we pick 4th (behind Minny but ahead of Jax)
5) Browns win....hah yeah right, nevermind!
Oh and the poster who mentioned that teams with the same record flip flop their spots every other round was correct.
So for instance right now Jax, us and Tampa are all 4-11 and would pick 4/5/6 in the first round based on SoS. Then in the 2nd round Tampa would get pick 36, we would get 37 and Jax would get 38. Then in Round 3 it flips back to Rd 1 order etc etc (not counting end of round compensation picks of course).
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Unless one of the teams in question finishes up on Monday, by Sunday afternoon we will at lest know our draft position.
At lest then we will be able to speculate knowing the top of the draft draft order.
Where our Falcon's pick finally settles will take a few more weeks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If we can get to 3, it really increases the odds of a trade up for 1. According to the trusty value chart
#1 = 3000pts
#3 = 2200
#24= 740
Throw in our 4th worth a 100 pts and wo hoo. Teams tend to stay fairly close to the chart.
Route for Minny to Win...And Indy...
We get 4 and deal with the Rams...
Jax and Minny Win and we get 3 and deal with Indy...
Go Browns!!!
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part IV
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