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Flynn is as good or better then any Qb coming out of this draft.
Did I miss the spiked egg-nog giveaway around here while traveling to Ohio yesterday, because I've seen some outlandish comments tonight in various threads.
Flynn is as good or better than Luck
Couch was as highly touted as Luck
Barkley elected to stay in school at least in part because there was an outside chance the Browns would take him
The Christmas cheer is definitely flowing!
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The kid has a CANNON for an arm
Dude, Flynn has McCoy's arm. I cannot imagine that if you've actually watched him play you'd be making this statement.
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infact..I think if Flynn would get extended playing time he could take rogers job...
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You folks may think im talking up Flynn..
Nah...what would give us that idea?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Back to McCoy ....... Just to give the other side ..... Cleveland Browns' Colt McCoy has potential, says analyst/former player Rich Gannon | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_ha_1.htmlFormer Super Bowl quarterback and CBS analyst Rich Gannon, who will call his fourth Browns game Saturday in Baltimore, still thinks Browns quarterback Colt McCoy can be the guy. Problem is, he suspects McCoy might not get the chance to prove it. "I know people are saying, 'Is this guy a player?' but there's a lot of things to like about him," said Gannon, who has studied most of McCoy's games this season. "I mean, there's something about him that makes me think he's got a chance. I like him." Gannon should know. His 18-year career got off to a remarkably slow start, but he went on to make four straight Pro Bowls with the Raiders, earn NFL MVP honors and lead his team to a Super Bowl. He excelled in the West Coast offense under then-Raiders coach Jon Gruden, who learned the scheme from Browns President Mike Holmgren. "People don't understand that you've got develop the quarterback position," Gannon said. "We're making a huge mistake in the NFL with these young guys. These coaches come in and say, 'He's not my guy, I want to get rid of him,' and then they bring another guy in. Then it takes a couple of years to develop that guy. Meanwhile, they fire that head coach, and the next guy comes in. It's a terrible cycle." Gannon cited 49ers quarterback Alex Smith, who is flourishing under Jim Harbaugh after struggling his first six seasons. Smith has led the 49ers to an 11-3 mark this season and has a 91.1 passer rating. "When you have a talented kid like Colt who can do some things, you put your arm around him like [coach] Jim Harbaugh did with Alex Smith and show him some love," Gannon said. "You tell him you believe in him and that you trust him, and that you're going to win this thing together. Now you're seeing a different guy in Alex Smith. He has five interceptions this year. He's not throwing 40 touchdowns [Smith has thrown for 16], but he's playing winning football." Gannon can see the same thing happening with McCoy -- either here or elsewhere. McCoy will sit out Saturday's game with the concussion he suffered in Pittsburgh on Dec. 8, and might be done for the season. "I think Colt McCoy can be that guy," Gannon said. "He might not be the Aaron Rodgers or the Tom Brady that throws 38 or 39 touchdown passes every year, but he's not in that system and he's not asked to do those things just yet. He might be a guy that can throw 25 touchdowns and seven or eight interceptions, and play winning football and help win the division championship -- but I don't know if he's going to get that opportunity." Gannon attributes McCoy's 4-9 record this season in large part to the lack of a running game and playmaking receivers. "In my opinion, they missed the boat in the off-season in terms of not bringing in more help at wide receiver," he said. "Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi were two young guys, and Massaquoi's been hurt. They drafted Greg Little, but they knew that was going to take a little bit of time. "I thought maybe they could've signed a guy like James Jones [496 yards, five TDs for the Packers this season], the kid from Green Bay who was on the market. He's a good player, he knows their system inside and out and he has a good work ethic. I just don't know that they got better enough in that area to help Colt." And then, he said, the whole Peyton Hillis saga was hard to overcome. "For most of the season, Colt didn't have Peyton Hillis or Montario Hardesty," Gannon said. "They weren't going to be any good on offense if they couldn't run the football. You saw last week what an impact a healthy Hillis can have. To sit here and say that the Browns are 4-10 because of the inconsistent play of the quarterback, I don't think that's fair." Gannon likened McCoy's situation to that of 2010 No. 1 pick Sam Bradford of the Rams. Bradford went 1-9 this season in St. Louis in the new offensive system under Josh McDaniels. Overall, he's 8-18 with a 74.2 rating. McCoy is 6-15 with a 74.5 rating after switching from the Patriots' style last year to the West Coast this year. "It's an almost identical situation," Gannon said. "Pat Shurmur coached Sam Bradford, and now McDaniels has him, and the kid's taken a major step back with the new system in year two. Colt was brought up in Brian Daboll's offense. I mean, it's traumatic." McCoy also had not much of an off-season to learn the new scheme. "They said: 'Here's the playbook, take a look at it. When you come back, here's what we're going to do,' " Gannon said. "That's no way to learn a system." Gannon said it's also significant that this is Shurmur's first year as a head coach. "He's only been calling plays for three years to begin with, and it's a lot different calling plays as the head coach as opposed to the coordinator," Gannon said. "As the head coach, he's dealing with substitutions, injuries, the kicking game and all of that. So when you look at all of that and you start evaluating Colt McCoy, I think it gets a little tricky." Gannon said many are raving about Bengals rookie quarterback Andy Dalton this season, but that he has a much better supporting cast. "Is Andy Dalton still Andy Dalton without A.J. Green this season?" Gannon said. "A.J. Green already got 1,000 yards receiving and seven touchdowns, and the guy goes up and makes all of these plays when he's covered. Who's that guy for the Browns? They don't have that guy yet. Then he's got Ced Benson and a good veteran group up front and [tight end Jermaine Gresham]. They also have a [top-six] defense. They're much more talented across the board." Gannon said he can understand why some will prefer quarterback Seneca Wallace after these few starts. "When your starter is struggling, people always love the backup," he said. "Welcome to my world. I've been the guy that's come in as the backup and treated like the savior and the guy that's watched the backup come in and get treated like that. Happens all the time." Gannon said McCoy has all the intangibles and can make all the throws. "He's a tough kid and [has] some of the same qualities as a Tim Tebow," Gannon said. "He's tough, he's got great leadership ability, work ethic, he sets a good example and he makes everyone around him better. Those are things you like about him." He said the fact McCoy was a third-round pick and not a first-round pick "makes it a little easier to push him aside. I don't know how it's all going to shake out." He cited players such as Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning who have had consistency throughout their careers. He pointed to other players such as Drew Brees who needed a fresh start to get his career on track. Brees went 2-9 with the Chargers in 2003 with 11 TDs and 15 INTs before becoming a Super Bowl MVP with the Saints. "If you're not in the right situation, it can hurt your career," Gannon said. "But Mike Holmgren and Pat Shurmur understand the need to develop young quarterbacks. Hopefully they'll do that with Colt. Whether it's in Cleveland or somewhere else, I can see him going on to have a terrific career."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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YT...a very good article to support the position that it might be "too soon" to give up on McCoy...thanks for posting it.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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If we are really set on getting another Qb it should NOT be through the draft...not this time...
We should use a draft pick and make the trade to Green Bay for Matt Flynn
Flynn is as good or better then any Qb coming out of this draft. He has sat behind Rogers and Farve for 3 + years, and he already knows our WCO system. The kid has a CANNON for an arm and is nearly pinpoint accurate...if Rogers got hurt, Flynn could start and win games for them...infact..I think if Flynn would get extended playing time he could take rogers job...Flynn has just not gotten the chance...he is a very good QB...and i do believe he will be availabel this offseason....
You folks may think im talking up Flynn..but im telling you...if Rogers got hurt and couldn't play for an extended period..Flynn would take his job...he would play well enough that the Packers could unload rogers and his salary..im tellin ya Flynn is the leagues best kept secret...
Flynn will most likely be able to be had in 2012...he can make all throws, knows the system, and we can actually compete right way from day one with a young Qb instead of waiting 2-3 years for a guy to learn the system..na dwe can focus on WR, OL, LB, and DL is the draft and FA....if we doin't want to go with McCoy then we should look at Flynn....he will be a good Qb in this league...we couldn't go wrong taking a flier on him..
Flynn has a cannon compared to Colt, but he does not have a cannon by any means.
One QB to watch for in the draft...Ryan Tannehill. Could be the Browns' second first round pick.
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Other FA QB options: Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team QB Kyle Boller UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent QB Drew Brees UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent QB Jason Campbell UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent QB Dennis Dixon UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent QB Trent Edwards UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent QB A.J. Feeley UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent QB Matt Flynn UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent QB Rex Grossman UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent QB Shaun Hill UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent QB Josh X. Johnson UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers Free Agent QB Josh McCown UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent QB Luke McCown UFA Jacksonville Jaguars Free Agent QB Brady Quinn UFA Denver Broncos Free Agent QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent QB Alex Smith UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent QB Drew Stanton UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent QB Vince Young UFA Philadelphia Eagles Free Agent http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=QB&y=2012#ixzz1hSXifxzz I would consider Jason Campbell, Matt Flynn, and of course, Drew Brees. I also liked what I saw of Lions' QBs in our pre-season game vs them - Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton, although probably not as starters. I liked Stanton a lot coming out of college. Vince Young is kind of intriquing too, because he seems to have so much talent. If we are intent on drafting a QB, I would only be interested in Luck in the 1st round, and only if we didn't have to mortgage two years of our draft (1st rd). I wouldn't mind a 2nd round flyer on Landry Jones, even though spread QBs from the Big 12 don't seem to translate to the NFL. I do like Jones' size, arm, and accuracy, although my knowledge is based largely upon a 7 minute youtube highlight reel.
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If we are really set on getting another Qb it should NOT be through the draft...not this time...
We should use a draft pick and make the trade to Green Bay for Matt Flynn
Flynn is as good or better then any Qb coming out of this draft. He has sat behind Rogers and Farve for 3 + years, and he already knows our WCO system. The kid has a CANNON for an arm and is nearly pinpoint accurate...if Rogers got hurt, Flynn could start and win games for them...infact..I think if Flynn would get extended playing time he could take rogers job...Flynn has just not gotten the chance...he is a very good QB...and i do believe he will be availabel this offseason....
You folks may think im talking up Flynn..but im telling you...if Rogers got hurt and couldn't play for an extended period..Flynn would take his job...he would play well enough that the Packers could unload rogers and his salary..im tellin ya Flynn is the leagues best kept secret...
Flynn will most likely be able to be had in 2012...he can make all throws, knows the system, and we can actually compete right way from day one with a young Qb instead of waiting 2-3 years for a guy to learn the system..na dwe can focus on WR, OL, LB, and DL is the draft and FA....if we doin't want to go with McCoy then we should look at Flynn....he will be a good Qb in this league...we couldn't go wrong taking a flier on him..
I'm all for picking up Flynn. It makes too much sense. He's been groomed in the WCO under the hottest QB going right now.
We do not need to trade for him, simply out-bid everyone else. Yeah, he'll cost some money, probably more then drafting a QB number one with this new CBA,
Don't get carried away with his arm strength though, i think its better then Colt's, but its not a cannon, make no mistake about that one.
But i agree, he is the best kept secret, the pack have done a good job of not hyping this guy. But privately, they are very high on him. He might just be the second best QB in the NFC north- yeah- i put him above Cutler and pretty much on par with Stafford.
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YT...a very good article to support the position that it might be "too soon" to give up on McCoy...thanks for posting it.
It actually supports any and every person who says that any and every yuoung QB deserves more time .....
And I happen to disagree.
I posted the article because it was there. I also still see too many "structural" problems with McCoy, and am absolutely not certain that he can overcome any of them ..... let alone all of them.
A former QB/current analyst thinks that he can. That's one person out of a rather large field. We'll see what happens.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Other FA QB options:
Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team
QB Kyle Boller UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Drew Brees UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
QB Jason Campbell UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Dennis Dixon UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
QB Trent Edwards UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB A.J. Feeley UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
QB Matt Flynn UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent
QB Rex Grossman UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
QB Shaun Hill UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Josh X. Johnson UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers Free Agent
QB Josh McCown UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
QB Luke McCown UFA Jacksonville Jaguars Free Agent
QB Brady Quinn UFA Denver Broncos Free Agent
QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
QB Alex Smith UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent
QB Drew Stanton UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent
QB Vince Young UFA Philadelphia Eagles Free Agent
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=QB&y=2012#ixzz1hSXifxzz
I would consider Jason Campbell, Matt Flynn, and of course, Drew Brees. I also liked what I saw of Lions' QBs in our pre-season game vs them - Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton, although probably not as starters. I liked Stanton a lot coming out of college. Vince Young is kind of intriquing too, because he seems to have so much talent.
If we are intent on drafting a QB, I would only be interested in Luck in the 1st round, and only if we didn't have to mortgage two years of our draft (1st rd). I wouldn't mind a 2nd round flyer on Landry Jones, even though spread QBs from the Big 12 don't seem to translate to the NFL. I do like Jones' size, arm, and accuracy, although my knowledge is based largely upon a 7 minute youtube highlight reel.
I see nothing about Flynn that tells me he could be a great QB. The only thing that he has going for him is that he has spent time in GB. I am far a Colt supporter but I would rather give Colt another year at the helm than sign Flynn. With Flynn, the amount of money we would commit to him would almost prohibit us from drafting a 1st round QB next year. Whereas going with Colt either develops a guy we have or puts us in position to get a top QB next year in a draft that I think will be deeper and more talented at QB than this years.
Presuming Brees resigns with NO the top guy in my opinion would be Campbell if he has recovered fully from his injury. He is significantly better than anyone we have. He can provide the veteran leadership we need on offense. I believe that if a healthy Campbell was our Qb this year that we would be 8-8 including a win over Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago. Add our draft picks and another FA or two and maybe we would look like a decent NFL team.
If we were going to take a flyer on somebody I might go after Dennis Dixon. I don't know what he could do being the guy who gets all the practice reps but I think he could be electric to an offense. Of course this would be a flyer because he is just as likely, if not more so to stink it up.
Is buttcheeks one word?
Or should I spread them apart?
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If we bring in Flynn or Campbell, I think it should be to compete with McCoy. Campbell probably prevails in that contest, but I have no idea about Flynn as compared to McCoy. Of available FA, only Brees could come in as the obvious starter, imo, and thats not happening anyway.
Dixon is the same guy as Seneca Wallace, imo.
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Former Super Bowl quarterback and CBS analyst Rich Gannon, who will call his fourth Browns game Saturday in Baltimore, still thinks Browns quarterback Colt McCoy can be the guy.
Problem is, he suspects McCoy might not get the chance to prove it.
"I know people are saying, 'Is this guy a player?' but there's a lot of things to like about him," said Gannon, who has studied most of McCoy's games this season. "I mean, there's something about him that makes me think he's got a chance. I like him."
And yet just now in the game, when Gannon was asked flat-out by his play-by-play guy if McCoy had done enough to be the answer, he said he didn't think so.
It's always a mess listening to these talking heads...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Former Super Bowl quarterback and CBS analyst Rich Gannon, who will call his fourth Browns game Saturday in Baltimore, still thinks Browns quarterback Colt McCoy can be the guy.
Problem is, he suspects McCoy might not get the chance to prove it.
"I know people are saying, 'Is this guy a player?' but there's a lot of things to like about him," said Gannon, who has studied most of McCoy's games this season. "I mean, there's something about him that makes me think he's got a chance. I like him."
And yet just now in the game, when Gannon was asked flat-out by his play-by-play guy if McCoy had done enough to be the answer, he said he didn't think so.
It's always a mess listening to these talking heads...
One of us misunderstood that comment. I thought he was asked it the team had seen enough of McCoy to be able to make a decision. I understood him to say they hadn't. Then went on to say it was because he has a poor surrounding cast so he needed more evaluating.
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He shouldn't be considered a rookie because he has gone through a training camp the previous year.
I recognize that he's not a Rookie.. You don't need to explain that to me.
But to be considered a rookie is easy when you consider all factors... Which you haven't.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He shouldn't be considered a rookie because he has gone through a training camp the previous year.
I recognize that he's not a Rookie.. You don't need to explain that to me.
But to be considered a rookie is easy when you consider all factors... Which you haven't.
In no way shape or form should be be 'considered' a rookie. Dealing with significant changes? Yes. But not a rook
Wise words spoken by sages
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Brees, pulleeze. McCoy has gotten a shot, it wasn't fair, and the lack of talent has helped put him out. Life isn't5 fair; if we draft well or snag a better player immediately, we spend less time suffering through development. How much do we want get better, how do we get better, and how long do we want to get better. I think we need to re-visit some of the gaping absences in this offensive philosophy and decide how we attack. The sideline as is seems a liability too often IMO. At least a true OC. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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LOL , I caught that too.
These guys just love to create controversy.
But I think that his gut feelings are that we will give up on Colt even though he thinks it might not be prudent to do so.
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Practice Squad
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He shouldn't be considered a rookie because he has gone through a training camp the previous year.
I recognize that he's not a Rookie.. You don't need to explain that to me.
But to be considered a rookie is easy when you consider all factors... Which you haven't.
Apparently someone does need to explain it to you since you still want to consider him a rookie. I know the factors but don't use them as excuses.
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McCoy's not a rookie, but he's also something less than a true second-year man. He's started about a full season's worth of games, and actually has decent TD-pick numbers. He's only had one legit training camp and has had two different coaches. He probably deserves next season, and hopefully we can have Tannehill carrying the clipboard.
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Since I posted an article on one side of the McCoy debate, I guess I am allowed to do one on the other side.  Cleveland Browns' Colt McCoy might be good QB somewhere, but not in AFC North Division, executive says: Terry Pluto's Talkin' | cleveland.com http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_browns_colt_mccoy_mi.htmlABOUT THE BROWNS . . . I talked to an AFC executive whose team plays the Browns in some seasons. "What's their problem?" I asked. He said: "They have put together a decent defense. I really like the kid from Pitt [Jabaal Sheard]. He can be a big-time player. [Phil] Taylor and [Ahtyba] Rubin are good tackles, but they desperately need another defensive end. Get a guy who is pretty good over there, and Sheard can really make an impact. [Joe] Haden, [T.J.] Ward, and [D'Qwell] Jackson are very good. Our coaches really love Jackson." "So it's not defense?" I asked. "They can always get better, especially at linebacker," he said. "But what division do the Browns play in?" "The AFC North," I said. "Who are the quarterbacks?" he asked. "Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and . . ." "And your guy," he said. "Does Colt [McCoy] even come close to comparing with them? Here's the problem -- you play six games against those teams, often in bad weather. I think you need a quarterback who is physically big with a strong arm." "So you don't like McCoy," I said. "Not in that division," he said. "I'm not saying it's easy to find one. Think of all the quarterbacks that Baltimore went through before Flacco -- [Kyle] Boller, [Trent] Dilfer, [Tony] Banks, [Steve] McNair, [Elvis] Grbac . . . I'm sure I'm forgetting some guys. Ben put Pittsburgh on the map for the Super Bowl. Dalton can play. Our coaches think Seneca [Wallace] is tougher to defend [than McCoy] because he's more mobile, but he's a backup. For years, the Browns have had a terrible offense and a quarterback problem. They usually go together." "The Browns do have two first-round picks," I said. "That can help them get a quarterback," he said. "But you have to be right. If they aren't sure [on a quarterback], then take two players who can really make an impact. Look at what [wide receiver A.J.] Green has done for the Bengals. When you play the Browns, you set your defense to stop [Peyton] Hillis. You can have a safety follow him, because no one in the passing game [quarterback or receivers] worries you." "So if you were the Browns, you'd be looking for a quarterback," I said. "In that division, they have no other choice," he said. "But don't force it. That is a team that needs impact players at a lot of positions."
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Betcha its Kevin Byrne, Modell's old PR flak, now holding a similar position with the Ravens. (The Ravens do play us "some" seasons, after all.) Even if it isn't, I still think its touching the level of concern rival execs have for the Browns' future needs, and their willingness to help us figure it out. Much like when lifelong democrats advise republicans (or vice-versa) on who their best candidate would be in an upcoming election ...
In other words, I don't buy it, and thats whether McCoy ends up being the guy or not. Time will tell.
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that last statement is what leads me to believe Colt should get another year. We have too many holes in too many places to be plugging the QB hole. We have a small hole there, but huge holes in other places. Fill the big ones before you plug the little ones.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I disagree.
We have an enormous, gaping wound of a hole at QB. It is an abyss into which all associated positions are pulled. Receivers can do nothing without a QB. Running Backs can be effective, but are more effective when the defense has a passing game to also worry about. The OL looks better, or worse, depending on the pocket awareness of the QB, and the speed at which he reads the defense and makes his decisions/throws.
When you do not have a QB you have problems everywhere. Small problems at other positions are amplified and exaggerated. Average problems become big problems. Big problems appear to be insurmountable.
The QB is the most important position on the field, and everything that happens, for good or bad, flows through him. If he does his job well, then every other position has a chance to shine. If he does not, then no position will ever be as good as they otherwise could be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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One other thing about AFC North QB's - none of the other 3 should be mentioned in the same breath as Roethlisberger. Flacco is a tall QB with a good arm, but that is where the comparisons with Ben end. Dalton is maybe an inch taller than McCoy and weighs less. Neither Dalton nor McCoy have what you'd call a cannon. Dalton, however, does have Green, Simpson, and Gresham to throw to, not to mention a strong running back that has stayed healthy all year.
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Dalton, however, does have Green, Simpson, and Gresham to throw to,
And Green is a ROTY candidate, to be sure ....... but Simpson and Gresham were nothing special in years past.
Simpson has 45 catches for 671 yards and 4 TDs this year. His best year prior to this year was last year ... with 20 catches for 277 yards. He is now in his 4th year. He gave the Bengals very little for his 1st 3 years.
Gresham is in his 2nd year. He has not yet passed 1000 yards receiving for his career. He had 471 yards and 4 TDs last year as a rookie, and has 524 this year with 6 TDs. He's decent, but hardly a force.
The Bengals also have UDFA Andrew Hawkins with 20 catches, and 4th year Andre Caldwell with 37 catches.
The Bengals have a great, great receiver in Green ..... and a bunch of very ordinary, very pedestrian receivers everywhere else. The QB makes the difference on that team ..... not a bunch of receivers who have been anything but special thus far in their careers. (except, obviously, Green)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Gresham has missed 5 or so games both years.
Simpson and Caldwell have come around in short bursts...but Green makes them all look better.
I maintain that having a good WR makes a QB look better. Look at Dalton, Skelton, and so on. Having a go to guy in the pass game is bigger than having a good QB i think.
Every good QB has a go to guy.
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Sure, a great receiver can make a QB look better. It is a symbiotic relationship.
However, the greatest WR in the world is not going to make a lousy QB anything but a lousy QB. How did Fitzgerald do as far as improving Anderson, or Leinart? They did nothing to improve either QB. His presence did not turn DA into a solid QB. His presence did not make Leinart into an average QB.
Fitzgerald gets his somehow .... even with a crap QB. He gets more with a good to great QB ..... but he gets "average" great receiver numbers when he is forced to play with a bad QB. He goes and gets passes he has no right getting. I guess in that regard he might help a crappy QB ...... but in the end, that crappy QB is still crappy whenever he throws anywhere else .... and there is a limit to just how much even the greatest WR can rescue a bad QB. If the argument is that we need receivers who can go get any pass, no matter how inaccurate or badly thrown/placed ..... then I still want nothing to do with that. 1 great WR is not going to turn an average to below average QB into an above average starter. 1 great QB can turn below average WRs into average players, and average players into excellent receivers. That is the path of least resistance. I do not understand why so many people resist it nonetheless.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i dont disagree with you there...
but I look at this offense, and if we had an outlet (a guy like LFitz) this offense would look wayyyyy better. I think if Colt had that one guy he could trust to throw the ball in his direction, and that could draw coverage away from Little and Norwood and Moore and company...this offense would move way up the charts.
I think it would do more for this offense than adding Andrew Luck to this offense. Because it becomes just another live arm to throw the ball at covered wideouts.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Again, I am going to disagree.
Arizona has had Fitzgerald for many years. However, they have gone from top of the league in offense to near the bottom, simply because of the QB
The Cardinals were 26th in points, and 27th in yards on offense the year before Warner arrived in the desert. They had Fitzgerald, and they had some guy named Boldin at WR. They had this guy named Emmit Smith at RB.
They stunk.
Then they went and got a great QB named Kurt Warner.
In 2005 they jumped to 17th in points and 8th in yards.
In 2006 Warner gets hurt and they have to rely upon Matt Leinart. 19th in points and 17th in yards.
2007 saw a return of Warner. 7th in points and 12th in yards, followed by 3rd and 4th in 2008, and 11th and 14th in 2009.
2010 saw a guy names Derek Anderson take over at QB. 26th in yards, 31st in points.
You can have all of the great skill position you want, but if you don't have a great QB it's like putting solid gold trim on a 1982 Yugo. It may pretty things up a little ....... and maybe even look impressive ....... but in the end, you still have an old Yugo.
As far as "throwing to covered wideouts", I don't buy that for a second. Have you ever wondered why some QBs seem to turn around a receiver just by being on the same team with them. Ever wonder why some receivers look great with a great QB .... even look like a franchise type guy ... only to flop elsewhere? It's because a great QB can throw a receiver open. The worst receiver in the world ... the slowest guy on planet Earth, is open against single coverage. Always. He is open either short or deep, either inside or out, underneath or over the top. A great QB will put the ball where his guy can get it ... because he always sees the receiver as open. A poor QB will look at that same receiver, in that same situation, and give up if it's not perfect. Great QBs make receivers great ... not the other way around. On almost every down, there is someone who is single covered. A great QB finds single coverage, and attacks it. A lesser QB gives up, hangs on to the ball, is confused, and might complete a pass, but by the time he throws the ball, the defense has collapsed on the receivers, and it's too late. He looks for the maximum target, and doesn't see a window when it appears. He wants to throw to the body of his receiver, at his "biggest point", rather than where the receiver is open. By throwing to the receiver's "biggest point", he not only needs a much bigger window, he also can actually force the receiver to stop to make the catch, doing part of the defender's job for him. A great QB will throw to the receiver's hands. out in front, underneath, inside or outside ...... allowing the receiver to make a move, get the ball, and maybe even make a play with it after the catch. If a QB won't throw until he can throw to the front midsection of his receiver, he waits, and allows the coverage to catch up .... and then throws where his receiver will be almost immediately tackled.
We have seen example after example after example of this on this team ...... from Frye, to Quinn, to McCoy. The only guy who broke the mold was Anderson .... and his lack of accuracy was his downfall. He could throw to an open receiver though, and he could throw to a "covered" receiver over the top.
We have decent receivers. Not great ... but decent. Put a great QB on this team and every single receiver we have would improve dramatically. They would get the ball against single coverage. They would get the ball in position to make a play against single coverage. They would get the ball in stride. This is not happening now. A great QB makes those things happen.
We need a QB more than we need anything else on this team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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i agree with your sentiment...
but a lot of it is having confidence if your guys too...Look at how Ochocinco looks like garbage this year...Brady has no confidence in him. Therefore he looks awful. With as little a time weve had in the system, we havent had time to build the chemistry and confidence...
As for the Cardinals reference...i agree that a QB has an effect. But...I also kinda look to when a WR looks bad somewhere else...and then looks bad again somewhere else.
Name 1 WR that has left Cleveland and become something elsewhere...I cant. Winslow is the only pass catcher thats left our offense and been decent. I dont see any of our current wideouts leaving and becoming productive anywhere save for Norwood and Little...maybe Cribbs too if used correctly...
I think in our case...the issue is a chicken and the egg thing...
A QB could make our wideouts better...but there isnt a wideout on this team that could make an impact on another offense...Little would make about the same progress as hes made this year. Norwood may have never gotten on the field as hes been a PS player for us.
I dont see MoMass doing anything, Robo wont...Ben Watson didnt really...
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It has to start somehow
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What better time than now?"
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This is like "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kinda thing
You can have a great QB and no receiver worth a plug nickel and you get nowhere or you can have a Fitzgerald and No QB and you get nowhere.
you need them both.
McCoy hasn't shown much but then again, for most of the year, receivers dropped the ball and runners didn't/couldn't run. Marino couldn't make that work.
For me, the right answer is to find that receiver and get the running game going. If you do that and your QB still isn't getting it done, then go find one that will..
#GMSTRONG
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I also think if we go the other way around...it could ruin the new QB and the fans view of him.
I mean, colt has precious little time to get good throws off (Seneca too) and our WRs drop the ball alot, but its STILL Colt's fault (not to absolve our QBs they havent been great).
If we bring in a new QB and he makes similar mistakes...then he too will be a pariah amongst fans.
unfortunately for Colt...he should be the sacfrifical lamb...stay, and get parts around you and when/if you still suck...you can get ALL the blame, and then we move on.
Get the parts and if you turn out to do something like Eli Manning did and turn it around and become a good QB, all the better.
I think our situation would be better served to get the parts around, let the QB get his 25-30 starts that most good football minds say a QB deserves to be fully evaluated and to see where he'll go in his career, add some parts for him and if he still cant succeed. Then we have a guy like Wallace who can play the position, and then we go get Matt Barkley, or whoever else shows his game to be worthwhile in the college ranks.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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Quote:
Other FA QB options:
Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team
QB Kyle Boller UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Drew Brees UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
QB Jason Campbell UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Dennis Dixon UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
QB Trent Edwards UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB A.J. Feeley UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
QB Matt Flynn UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent
QB Rex Grossman UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
QB Shaun Hill UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Josh X. Johnson UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers Free Agent
QB Josh McCown UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
QB Luke McCown UFA Jacksonville Jaguars Free Agent
QB Brady Quinn UFA Denver Broncos Free Agent
QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
QB Alex Smith UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent
QB Drew Stanton UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent
QB Vince Young UFA Philadelphia Eagles Free Agent
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=QB&y=2012#ixzz1hSXifxzz
I would consider Jason Campbell, Matt Flynn, and of course, Drew Brees. I also liked what I saw of Lions' QBs in our pre-season game vs them - Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton, although probably not as starters. I liked Stanton a lot coming out of college. Vince Young is kind of intriquing too, because he seems to have so much talent.
If we are intent on drafting a QB, I would only be interested in Luck in the 1st round, and only if we didn't have to mortgage two years of our draft (1st rd). I wouldn't mind a 2nd round flyer on Landry Jones, even though spread QBs from the Big 12 don't seem to translate to the NFL. I do like Jones' size, arm, and accuracy, although my knowledge is based largely upon a 7 minute youtube highlight reel. [/quote
I too like Hill yet prefer Stanton. though the flock is cuing behind Flynn.
Colt is DONe and we will keep the bonafide mediocrity in Senecacca. More sterling game day management by our buffoon HC in Baltimore!
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Quote:
Other FA QB options:
Pos Player FA Status Previous Team Current Team
QB Kyle Boller UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Drew Brees UFA New Orleans Saints Free Agent
QB Jason Campbell UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB Dennis Dixon UFA Pittsburgh Steelers Free Agent
QB Trent Edwards UFA Oakland Raiders Free Agent
QB A.J. Feeley UFA St. Louis Rams Free Agent
QB Matt Flynn UFA Green Bay Packers Free Agent
QB Rex Grossman UFA Washington Redskins Free Agent
QB Shaun Hill UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Josh X. Johnson UFA Tampa Bay Buccaneers Free Agent
QB Josh McCown UFA Chicago Bears Free Agent
QB Luke McCown UFA Jacksonville Jaguars Free Agent
QB Brady Quinn UFA Denver Broncos Free Agent
QB Chris Redman UFA Atlanta Falcons Free Agent
QB Alex Smith UFA San Francisco 49ers Free Agent
QB Drew Stanton UFA Detroit Lions Free Agent
QB Charlie Whitehurst UFA Seattle Seahawks Free Agent
QB Vince Young UFA Philadelphia Eagles Free Agent
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=QB&y=2012#ixzz1hSXifxzz
I would consider Jason Campbell, Matt Flynn, and of course, Drew Brees. I also liked what I saw of Lions' QBs in our pre-season game vs them - Shaun Hill and Drew Stanton, although probably not as starters. I liked Stanton a lot coming out of college. Vince Young is kind of intriquing too, because he seems to have so much talent.
If we are intent on drafting a QB, I would only be interested in Luck in the 1st round, and only if we didn't have to mortgage two years of our draft (1st rd). I wouldn't mind a 2nd round flyer on Landry Jones, even though spread QBs from the Big 12 don't seem to translate to the NFL. I do like Jones' size, arm, and accuracy, although my knowledge is based largely upon a 7 minute youtube highlight reel.
Quote:
I too like Hill yet prefer Stanton. though the flock is cuing behind Flynn.
Colt is done and we will keep the bonafide mediocrity in Senecacca. More sterling game day management by our buffoon HC in Baltimore!
Just wanted to clean that up.
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Quote:
I also think if we go the other way around...it could ruin the new QB and the fans view of him.
I mean, colt has precious little time to get good throws off (Seneca too) and our WRs drop the ball alot, but its STILL Colt's fault (not to absolve our QBs they havent been great).
If we bring in a new QB and he makes similar mistakes...then he too will be a pariah amongst fans.
unfortunately for Colt...he should be the sacfrifical lamb...stay, and get parts around you and when/if you still suck...you can get ALL the blame, and then we move on.
Get the parts and if you turn out to do something like Eli Manning did and turn it around and become a good QB, all the better.
I think our situation would be better served to get the parts around, let the QB get his 25-30 starts that most good football minds say a QB deserves to be fully evaluated and to see where he'll go in his career, add some parts for him and if he still cant succeed. Then we have a guy like Wallace who can play the position, and then we go get Matt Barkley, or whoever else shows his game to be worthwhile in the college ranks.
Dave...fixing the support cast makes more sense to me than wasting a pick on a rookie QB who is not likely to play any better in his first year than Colt played this year.
Here is what some are forgetting...the supporting cast...that is not just a reference to the offensive side...the Browns need to continue building on the defensive side, too.
If the Browns are going to upgrade the supporting cast on offense and defense, spending one of our 2 first round picks on another young QB is not going to do much to help build that supporting cast on offense...unless the Browns spend both first round picks on the offense...which means the defense goes without a much needed upgrade at one of their positions of need.
Any way we slice this pie, there's not enough draft picks to go around.
And if the new QB does not show well in his rookie season, some will claim, he needs more time because the Browns need to improve his supporting cast.
...kind of sounds where the Browns are at this year, doesn't it?
Many on here would have given up on Eli Manning, if they looked at only his QB stats for his first 23 starts....his pass completion percentage was 50% and a QB rating of 65.
But Eli Manning landed on a team that already had much of the surrounding cast and the team went 11-5 in Manning's second season.
If the Browns had won 3 or 4 more games this season, I doubt many would be asking for the Browns to draft another QB.
But some Browns fans and media talkie heads, need a scapegoat for a 4 win season, and their scapegoat is Colt McCoy.
The Browns need to continue to improve the Oline, WRs and RB position on offense and the Dline, LBs and DBs on defense...in other words, there is not a single position that does not need to be upgraded before we draft another QB....that is how weak the Browns supporting cast remains.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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That makes sense to me..
Seems as if every mistake a QB makes is magnified out of proportion. Yet, dropped passes, bad protection, lack of a running game is, for whatever reason, minimized.
I'm not sure if Colt is the guy or not. But everywhere he's been (except here), he's won. I don't care about reasons, he's won and for the moment, that's all I care about. I'll take it on pure faith that if surrounded by talent, he'll win here as well.
Eventually, we need to find all those other pieces anyway.
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Mac, I'm not saying I disagree with you, but the flip side of building the supporting cast now and getting the QB later is that we may never be this close to a franchise QB again. If we get any better at all, a 7 or 8 win season is possible and then it'll be tough to get at a prize like Luck. As it stands, we should be able to get Griffin without trading any picks. And if Indy or St. Louis are so inclined, we have more to offer than anyone for the pick.
But then, i hate the idea of giving up two No. 1 picks to move up two or three spots; I'm not sold on Griffin and I think we could get a better project-type QB as late as Round 2 (Tannehill or Jones).
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Quote:
Mac, I'm not saying I disagree with you, but the flip side of building the supporting cast now and getting the QB later is that we may never be this close to a franchise QB again. If we get any better at all, a 7 or 8 win season is possible and then it'll be tough to get at a prize like Luck. As it stands, we should be able to get Griffin without trading any picks. And if Indy or St. Louis are so inclined, we have more to offer than anyone for the pick.
But then, i hate the idea of giving up two No. 1 picks to move up two or three spots; I'm not sold on Griffin and I think we could get a better project-type QB as late as Round 2 (Tannehill or Jones).
Thats all pretty true, but take a different view for a second.. If, with a few more pieces in place, we DO go to 7 or 8 wins, doesn't that mean that we may already have our QB and that Pieces and Parts added might be all that's needed.Well, that and more time. Thus eliminating the need to get a Luck or anyone else.
We need a bunch of stuff.. We need Linbackers, we need another DE, we need another CB and another Safety would be nice as well. We also need a WR that scares people (not with his mouth but with his deeds on the field) and let's not forget the right side of the Oline.
Adding a QB like Luck (which, by the way, is comical that anyone would think we are going to even consider trading up for him) won't help much if he's on his back all game or has nobody to throw to that will make the tough AND easy catches.
#GMSTRONG
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j/c http://www.nfldraft101.com/draft/profiles/player/83447/Colt_McCoy.jspColt McCoy Strengths Excellent competitor with a proven record of winning football Clutch performer Accurate passer who has completed over 70 percent of his passes the past two seasons Excellent mobility for a quarterback Good athlete Intelligent and good decision maker Weaknesses Lacks arm strength and struggles with his accuracy on deep throws Rarely attempts deep passes Has played a simple offense focused on basic short passes Does not have experience in a pro style offense Will need time to develop and adapt to the pro game More of a Jeff Garcia type (not that there is anything wrong with that) with limited upside. Not a franchise QB Like several other top quarterback prospects there are questions whether he is really 6'3" Has potential but is not a fit for all schemes. Would fit best in a west coast offense http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/profile/drew_brees.html Drew Brees By: Dave-Te' Thomas #15-DREW BREES Purdue University Boilermakers 5:11.7-221 ANALYSIS Positives... Touch passer with the ability to read and diagnose defensive coverages...Confident leader who knows how to take command in the huddle...Very tough and mobile moving around in the pocket...Has a quick setup and is very effective throwing on the move...Throws across his body with great consistency...Hits receivers in stride and improvises his throws in order to make a completion...Puts good zip behind the short and mid-range passes...Shows good judgement and keen field vision...Has a take-charge attitude and is very cool under pressure...Hits receivers in motion with impressive velocity...Has superb pocket presence and uses all of his offensive weapons in order to move the chains...Has solid body mechanics and quickness moving away from center... Elusive scrambler with the body control to avoid the rush. Negatives... Plays in the spread offense, taking the bulk of his snaps from the shotgun... Tends to side-arm his passes going deep...Lacks accuracy and touch on his long throws... Seems more comfortable in the short/intermediate passing attack...Does not possess the ideal height you look for in a pro passer, though his ability to scan the field helps him compensate in this area...Will improvise and run when the passing lanes are clogged, but tends to run through defenders rather than trying to avoid them to prevent unnecessary punishment. REMIND ME OF... San Francisco's Jeff Garcia.
Meh.
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a QB like Luck (which, by the way, is comical that anyone would think we are going to even consider trading up for him)
It's not that comical, really. Holmgren really wanted to trade up for Bradford, who is a way worse QB than Luck is.
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yea but he thought the price was too steep for him...now its infinitely steeper for Luck...no way
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Well, we don't really know what the asking price was for Bradford. At least, I don't ever recall seeing it anywhere. I'm sure it was plenty high though.
You also have to consider some other factors. For starters, giving up a bunch of picks AND paying an unproven rookie an astronomical salary is more daunting than giving up a bunch of picks and paying him a very reasonable salary. Luck is also projected to be a better player than Bradford, so the fact that he likely would cost more to draft (in terms of acquiring the number one overall draft selection) is offset by the perceived higher value that you get in return. Lastly, the Colts still have a big decision to make in what they're going to do with Manning and the future of their quarterback position.
Then again, like I said, we don't (or I don't, rather) know what the Rams were asking last year.
What I'm really afraid of is the Rams winding up with the number one pick, and Big Mike getting another shot on selling the farm to try and acquire Bradford.
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