|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
Quote:
Luck's arm is stronger than Griffin's.
I haven't watched Luck as much as I've watched Griffin, but I've definitely seen much more velocity on passes from RGIII than from Luck. He doesn't throw full bore all the time, but when he needs to he really slings it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,459 Likes: 59
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,459 Likes: 59 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
lol
Good response.
Do you think, "Ryan Leaf would go ahead of Andrew Luck" deserves an actual response?
Yes - I'm not sure you remember how close the Leaf/Manning debate was in 1998 - many many well renowned experts had Leaf rated higher. Kiper last week came out with an article listing Leaf as the 5th best QB prospect of the last 30+ years (note he does rank Luck higher at 2 overall, though I think that's a bit optimistic). http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7329933/the-top-10-quarterbacks-mel-kiper-ever-evaluated
The fact that one was awesome and one sucked seems to have clouded your memory.
I think if you put up Luck against another prospect on that list, the higher ceiling on most of the other prospects would have pushed them above Luck (who has an extremely high floor, but a lower ceiling).
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 12/23/11 02:44 PM.
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Nope. My memory is just fine.
I know how close that was.
And I know how good of a prospect Leaf was.
I also know that Leaf has all the physical tools of Leaf and isn't a mental midget.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Vick and Manning are the only guys who might be picked ahead of Luck. No one else is close.
Top - Griffin's arm isn't great, but it is above average with the potential to become a rocket. Once his footwork improves and he uses his lower body more, he will be able to gun the ball.
His accuracy is fantastic, and he is incredibly intelligent. He is raw, but the upside is there to become a franchise quarterback.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,459 Likes: 59
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,459 Likes: 59 |
Quote:
I also know that Leaf has all the physical tools of Leaf and isn't a mental midget.
I assume you mean Luck - and in that case he doesn't even have close to the arm strength of Leaf.
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Manning wouldn't go ahead of Luck.
Manning's pro success is the only reason people say he might.
At the time he came out, he wasn't the prospect Luck is.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Manning was a ridiculous prospect back in the day. Like Luck, he would have been the No. 1 pick if he had left a year earlier. It's hard to say who would have done first, but Manning would have had a shot.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,459 Likes: 59
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,459 Likes: 59 |
Quote:
Manning was a ridiculous prospect back in the day. Like Luck, he would have been the No. 1 pick if he had left a year earlier. It's hard to say who would have done first, but Manning would have had a shot.
And as close as Leaf was to Manning in that year, it would be hard to say that Leaf didn't have a shot as well.
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,426 Likes: 15
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,426 Likes: 15 |
I think RG3 plays on the 29th.... Would be interesting have knock down discussion after the game.. .I'm on record as a big fan..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
If the Colts lose they get the #1 pick.
If they win (which is a possibility against Gabbert and the Jaguars) and the Rams and Vikings lose then those teams would have a coin flip to determine who would get the #1 pick (talk about an epic coin flip).
The Vikings took Ponder last year in the first round so they might not take Luck, although I would if I were them. The Rams would probably look to trade the pick because it would be hard to move Bradford's giant contract.
The best situation would be the Colts beat the Jaguars, the Vikings win one of their final two games (at Washington, vs Chicago), and the Rams lose out and gain the #1 pick.
One thing that worries me is that the Rams are probably going to clean house after the season, meaning the new regime would have no ties to Bradford.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
One thing that worries me is that the Rams are probably going to clean house after the season, meaning the new regime would have no ties to Bradford.
But why would they want to get rid of Bradford? If you are going to win the superbowl, you must have a top draft pick QB, they already have one.. why would they want a different one?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Maybe the new staff will determine that Bradford isn't the guy. Like I said it is unlikely they would draft a QB due to Bradford's giant contract, but I think the chances they take a QB are greater than 0%.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
He was a #1 pick two years ago, how can he not be the guy? ****Obviously I'm being sarcastic... maybe we can be in this position.. we can draft RG3 and in two years when we are firing Shurmur, we can be deciding if we want to take Sammy Watkins with our top 5 pick to help out the QB or trade up and take our REAL franchise QB in Teddy Bridgewater from Louisville. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 183
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 183 |
Let's not forget that when Manning came into the League he already had Marvin Harrison AND Marshal Faulk (and that Marshal caught 87 balls for over 1000 yards in Peyton's rookie year. Giving up our draft to get Luck would be stupid at this point, as we don't have the same playmakers Manning had and thus player development would be far different.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 Likes: 234
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 Likes: 234 |
Somewhere here, on one of these threads, there was a post of the cap ramifications for St Louis if they cut or trade Bradford. I think it said they were prohibitive. Maybe someone who understands the cap can expand on the effects of dumping a 50M guaranteed contract. Conversely, I heard the Colts' owner (Irsay) on the radio saying that they would be able to handle the cap aspects if they kept Manning and drafted Luck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 776 Likes: 28
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 776 Likes: 28 |
If Manning is going to stay in Indy and play next year, and given that he has a lot of influence there, I really don't think they'll pick Luck. Manning is going to say, "I'm the QB and we need receivers, linemen, defenders, etc., not someone to carry a clipboard for four years." I see them trading down, if they in fact get the top pick.
I can't see the Rams or the Vikings scrapping their QBs and starting over, either. Now, that doesn't mean Luck falls, obviously. But any of those teams that gets the top pick will trade it. They will want a high top pick (Kalil, Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborn), not a mid-first rounder. We're in a great position to offer either both No. 1s this year or 1A this year and No. 1 next year. Not three picks, but just two. That would be sweet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,104 Likes: 1
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,104 Likes: 1 |
An interesting thought:Lets say Jacksonville loses to TEN this weekend and the 2-13 Colts play the 4-11 Jags. Jacksonville currently has the pick before us. If the Colts win then St. Louis is most likely to earn the #1 pick and would be in a better position to trade it for Luck as opposed to the Colts. If Jacksonville wins then in all probablility we move ahead of them to the #4 spot (possibly #3 if the Vikings win out). Do you hope Jacksonville wins to move up a spot, or that the Colts win to open up a trade scenerio for Luck?
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
Adam Vinatieri to start at QB for the Colts next Sunday.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 Likes: 234
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,205 Likes: 234 |
Still better than the stiff they went with in the 2007 finale. Bastages!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 183
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 183 |
The BIG assumption here is that Luck wants to play for us (all we know is that his dad made it clear "they" were going to evaluate their options, in a Manningesque way). Luck may end up deciding he doesn't care where he plays, but if he is going to engineer something, I highly doubt we would be on his short list.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
I'm assuming that's something our front office would decide before trading the farm for him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Quote:
The BIG assumption here is that Luck wants to play for us (all we know is that his dad made it clear "they" were going to evaluate their options, in a Manningesque way).
He should have 2 options.. play in the NFL or don't.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
They have said no such thing. His dad said he was going to stay out of the process completely. Luck will play for whoever has the No. 1 pick.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
I feel like the front office will stick with Colt and sign a DE in free agency.
1. Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
1. Zach Brown, LB, UNC
2. Dwight Jones, WR, UNC
3. Levy Adcock, OT, Oklahoma State
4. Matt Reynolds, OT, BYU
4. Jarius Wright, WR, Arkansas
5. Doug Martin, RB, Boise State
6. Derrick Moye, WR, Penn State
7. Vaughn Meatoga, NT, Hawaii
It's not bad. Not exactly how I'd go with it, but not bad.
While Claiborne would be a nice pick, I think there are more pressing needs. He would certainly help Haden but we need some more weapons on the offense or protection on the line.
I love the Zach Brown pick. If he's there with the second selection in the first round, I think it's a no-brainer.
I'm not sure taking another 2nd round UNC WR is what we should be looking for. I have no doubts that Dwight Jones would be a nice WR on some teams, I'm not sure it would be good for us. Maybe he could help Greg Little learn how to catch the ball.
I love the Levy Adcock pick too! That would be a great selection for the RT spot and would secure that position for many years.
I'm not sure about the Reynold's pick. That's a bit high to draft some OL depth as we have some of that on the team already. You could put him in at the G spot but you could address that with the 2nd round pick and get a higher quality player there.
I like the Jarius Wright pick for the speed component alone. It would give us a home-run threat and open up the field a bit more.
The Doug Martin pick is another great value pick. Boise State demolished Arizona State and he as a big part of it.
A third WR is a bit over the top, I think. We have additional needs. More help on the DL or another safety would be nice here. Even taking the NT from Hawaii wouldn't be bad or Phil Dawson's replacement.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Quote:
Wasn't Tim Couch supposed to be that when the Browns returned to the NFL?
You're comparing Luck to Couch now? Okay.
Not quite. You're the one calling Luck a franchise QB. I only made the comment that Couch was drafted to be the Browns franchise QB in 1999. He was the first pick of the new Cleveland Browns. Unfortunately, he never got the chance to become a successful Browns QB.
His agent should have told him that if he was drafted by the new Browns that he would refuse to sign a contract with them or to ever play a down for them.
And, if you were old enough to remember the 1999 draft, Couch was as equally touted as Andrew Luck is now.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=60960&draftyear=1999&genpos=qb
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
 Couch was no where near as highly rated as Luck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
You should start your own Luck fan site. I just looked and Overhypedprospects.com is available.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
For the record, I was against trading up for Luck until Barkley announced he was returning to USC.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Couch was no where near as highly rated as Luck.
Um... yeah. Whatever you say man. Whatever you say.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Mel Kiper has Andrew Luck as the #2 Quarterback he's EVER scouted. Behind only John Elway.
Couch didn't even make the article.
Someone posted it in this thread.
Continue making stuff up though, it's cool.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
Mel Kiper has Andrew Luck as the #2 Quarterback he's EVER scouted. Behind only John Elway.
Couch didn't even make the article.
Someone posted it in this thread.
Continue making stuff up though, it's cool.
So, Mel Kiper likes Stanford QBs?
The second best QB he's ever scouted. Mel Kiper has been discredited a long time ago as a scouting guru. I'd take Mike Mayock over him. Manning has been more productive than Elway. Tom Brady (that everyone overlooked) has been more productive than Elway. Aaron Rodgers (who I think will go down as the best QB to have ever played the game) is better now than Elway ever was.
Unfortunately for you, I don't hang my opinion on what Mel Kiper has to say.
And, I'm not making things up. I linked to a different 'draft guru' site that had Couch ranked as the #1 selection of the 1999 draft.
Plus, if you can believe Sports Illustrated, Kiper thought that Tim Couch was one of the best NFL prospects, even at the age of 18 and just finishing high school.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1007430/index.htm
So, if you want to go get a hard-on for Andrew Luck, go ahead. I won't help you get there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
You're just wrong. I really don't know what else to say to you.
So, he was the #1 pick in 1999. What's that mean?
It means the other Quarterbacks in that class were Donovan McNabb, Akili Smith, Daunte Culpepper, Cade McNown, Shaun King, Brock Huard, Joe Germaine, Kevin Daft, Michael Bishop, and Chris Griesen.
Couch going #1 in 1999 is completely irrelevant to how he would grade against Luck.
Whether you think Luck will work out or not, that's a different debate we can have. But to say he's not graded any highre than Tim Couch was is flat out wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,276 |
attitude and language are steering towards inappropriate / rude. Less  More 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
So, you think that Barkley didn't consider that he might be drafted by the Browns? I honestly think that it could have played a part in his decision.
 Quote:
Mel Kiper has been discredited a long time ago as a scouting guru.
I know things happen in three's, and you're on a roll, so I'll just wait for the next thing you say instead of retroactively finding another crazy thing.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Some people do seem to think that Oliver isn't going to advise his kid to go to a hopeless situation:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...-all-over-again
That was dated October 19th.
This is dated November 8th.
Quote:
Oliver Luck says he’ll be “not very involved” in Andrew’s draft-related decisions
Posted by Mike Florio on November 8, 2011, 11:43 AM EST
Getty ImagesThe fact that Oliver Luck, the father of Stanford quarterback Andrew Luck. played pro football has created plenty of speculation that Oliver will be intimately involved in Andrew’s decision-making processes when it comes to playing football at the next level.
Not so, Oliver Luck said on Monday night’s Bruce Smith Show with Johnny D in Virginia Beach. Oliver said he’ll be “not very involved” at all, explaining that he has an athletics department to run at West Virginia University.
Oliver Luck said that Andrew will make all decisions on issues such as the selection of an agent, the choice of a marketing representative, and pre-draft planning. ”I’ll give him some advice but I’ll try to take a subdued role in all of it,” Oliver Luck said
So....yeah.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253 Likes: 16
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,253 Likes: 16 |
I have seen RG3 a couple of times and he reminds me of Troy Smith, only a little faster. But how fast will he be after Harrison cheap shots his knees a few times. Which BTW the Browns will NOT in any get even. We have had chances to pick up Smith and nobody was interested. He is not big and strong. He is more the Vick type, fast but often injured. He put up big numbers at Baylor but thats Big12 where most games end 60 to 50 because nobody plays D. Barkley , same deal. To small.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,703 |
Ha, the whole time I've been arguing with you over this, I thought I was responding to arch. I was gonna say "You're better than that." It all makes sense now though. 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) 2012 Draft Continued
|
|
