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TOKYO--Sony plans to lower the production cost of its PlayStation 3 game consoles by using less expensive chips, aiming to turn the operations profitable between September and next March, the Nikkei business daily reported Friday. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-6165811.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=zdnn------------------------------ Looks like Sony will cut the price on the PS3 with cheaper parts...
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2nd String
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Don't think they will cut price...sounded more like they were just cutting their costs. Unless I missed where they said they planned to pass some of that on to the consumer.
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Sony already said no price cut on the PS3 until at least 2008.  I read the article on Nexgenwars.com, if I can find it later I will post it.
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Legend
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the big question... WHY is that chip cheaper?
What will the newer PS3's not have that the others have now? Will it be a larger manufacturing process that results in more heat dissipation?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
the big question... WHY is that chip cheaper?
What will the newer PS3's not have that the others have now? Will it be a larger manufacturing process that results in more heat dissipation?
The chip they are changing is the emotion chip which help the system be backwards compatable. Sony claims they can make up for it in software programming. Well see though. But as the price cut goes, Sony is losing around $280 per unit. The cost savings is going to be ~$50, Sony is going to probably hold onto that savings for as long as they can to make the loss on the unit $230 instead of $280.
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I never understood why a company would choose to sell a product at a net loss..Just setting your company up for failure IMO.
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I don't know, I have yet to see any backward compatability problems with my own system. Anyway, I thought it was about 5 games or so out of a couple thousand that didn't work?maybe I'm wrong.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Quote:
I never understood why a company would choose to sell a product at a net loss..Just setting your company up for failure IMO.
the money is in the games.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
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I never understood why a company would choose to sell a product at a net loss..Just setting your company up for failure IMO.
the money is in the games.
Games and all the accessories you can purchase.
An XBOX 360 controller for $49.99 + tax??? It probably cost $5 to make it.
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Dawg Talker
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Microsoft really changed that if I remember right. They really undercut themselves at first with the original X-box in order to get market share. I remember all the PS people making fun of their stradegy. Now the PS3 joined in on the fun...
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I never understood why a company would choose to sell a product at a net loss..Just setting your company up for failure IMO.
imo they are trying to win the hd format war.....they had plenty of market share already...
i think they were hoping to sell as many units as the ps2 and then all the movie studios would jump to the blue-ray format cause there are so many out there in ps3's....
since its sony's format they would make boatloads of cash...
the main reason the ps3 is unprofitable is because of the blueray dvd player....thats my take....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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HD-DVD will probably win the war... it cheaper.
#gmstrong
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From what I read, it looks as though there are more movie companies that are producing Blu-Ray movies than HD-DVD. Or am I wrong? If I remember correctly, the list for Blu-Ray seemed to be doubled. The capacity for Blu-Ray is bigger as well. But money is always an issue with consumers.
It's just like DVD players. My ex bought me a DVD player for close to $400 around the time they came out. It wasn't the most expensive one at the time, either. Now you can pretty much get a good quality DVD player for under a hundred, and even less for cheaper ones. Over time the prices will come down. And if they're relatively close in prices, Blu-Ray should come out on top. But we'll see how the price war goes.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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that very well could be, but i still think that was sonys plan...
if they had market share with blue-ray, then its entirely possible that the movie industry would have went with them...
i don't think the market was ready for that type of move and now sony is losing their ass on the ps3
there are still so many people without hdtv...not to mention very few channels...
they want that format to win....
it would be interesting to find out why betamax lost to vhs...was it because vhs was cheaper? or because it got market share faster? heck maybe both...
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well i'll answer my own question  "The whole product" model also provided a convincing explanation of why VHS had thrashed Betamax. VHS offered a bigger choice of hardware at lower cost, the tapes were cheaper and more easily available, there were a lot more movies to rent, and so on. All of this matched my own experience. I remember perambulating Hammersmith (doing the Maplin run) and finding VHS recorders more readily available to rent, while the video shop had three walls of VHS movies and only one for Betamax. Indeed, the main thing that didn't fit was the idea was that Betamax was "technically superior". Standing in a shop at the time, there was absolutely no visible difference in picture quality, and some reviews had found that VHS's quality was superior. I "knew" Betamax was superior -- that was the received wisdom, even at the time - and maybe it was, in a lab. But I wasn't buying a lab test rig. In terms of "the whole product", VHS was clearly superior, so that's the way I went. Along with everybody else. Later I found out that Betamax had owned the market, but lost it because Sony got one simple decision wrong. It chose to make smaller, neater tapes that lasted for an hour, whereas the VHS manufacturers used basically the same technology with a bulkier tape that lasted two hours. Instead of poring over the sound and picture quality, reviewers could simply have taken the systems home. Their spouses/children/grandparents and everybody else would quickly have told them the truth. "We're going out tonight and I want to record a movie. That Betamax tape is useless: it isn't long enough. Get rid of it." Betamax was the first successful consumer video format, and at one time it had close to 100% of the market. All of the video machines in use and all of the pre-recorded movies were Betamax. It had a de facto monopoly, and an element of lock-in (because of tape incompatibilities). It lost because, at the time, it could not do what consumers wanted: record a whole movie unattended. And although Betamax playing times were extended, they never caught up with VHS. Other elements of the oft-repeated Betamax story are also wrong. For example, while Sony was certainly slow to bring in other manufacturers, it had tried to license it to rivals such as JVC before VHS was even launched. Betamax was not generally more expensive: Sony had to slash its original high prices but generally it was competitive. Indeed, after it had lost the market, Betamax machines were often cheaper than VHS ones. And at the beginning, there was no comparative shortage of Betamax movies to rent: actually, they were all Betamax. (Stan Liebowitz, Professor and Associate Dean of the School of Management, University of Texas at Dallas, has done most research on this, but see urbanlegends.com for a quick guide.) Even if Betamax had been "technically superior", it wouldn't have mattered. VHS users have long had the chance to upgrade to the compatible SuperVHS format with superior picture quality. But rather than demanding better pictures for today's TV sets, consumers have shown more interest in LP (Long Play) modes that reduce the picture quality to provide longer recording times. VHS won because "the whole product" did what people wanted at a price they were willing to pay. And when people use the VHS v Beta analogy, they are not indicating a market failure but their own ignorance. web pagein terms of this article blue-ray should have the edge cause the disks hold more...thats a crap load space on either... right now i think blue-ray has the edge on movies...there are more out there, but evidently the same was true with betamax.... its interesting about the 1 hour tapes...they probably listened to some movie big wig and went with smaller tapes to prevent people from recording movies... so in reality this war will come down to one thing...since the other two are irrelevant in this situation, which is hardware cost.... from whats out there now the hd-dvd players are cheaper, but we don't know how the ps3 sales will affect the overall picture... personally i wish they would just go with divx...then we could just keep our dvd players that we have now....
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An XBOX 360 controller for $49.99 + tax??? It probably cost $5 to make it.
Which is why it's so ridiculous.  So sick of things being made in China by people who get payed 10 - 20 cents an hour, and then turn around and sell it for $50, just to save a few bucks and make a even bigger profit.
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Legend
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Quote:
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An XBOX 360 controller for $49.99 + tax??? It probably cost $5 to make it.
Which is why it's so ridiculous. So sick of things being made in China by people who get payed 10 - 20 cents an hour, and then turn around and sell it for $50, just to save a few bucks and make a even bigger profit.
that's business...
Meh.
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Microsoft really changed that if I remember right. They really undercut themselves at first with the original X-box in order to get market share. I remember all the PS people making fun of their stradegy. Now the PS3 joined in on the fun...
??? that was a totaly inacurate statement. Sony lost money on the PS1 and the PS2 as did Nintendo with the N64 and Sega with the Dreamcast. Well before there was an Xbox. Wii ended the trend, Nintendo actually makes a profit on the Wii.
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I don't know, I have yet to see any backward compatability problems with my own system. Anyway, I thought it was about 5 games or so out of a couple thousand that didn't work?maybe I'm wrong.
There isn't a problem with it, they want to change the Chip that allows it to do the Backwards compatability, they say they don't need it because they can make up for it with software. The new chip and software programming "allegedly" will do the same thing as the emotion chip at a cheaper cost.
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To reply to the article about VHS vs Betamax
Different time period, that was the only two available formats if you wanted to watch movies in your house. The porn industry backed VHS because they were snubbed by Sony on Betamax. That helped win the war for VHS.
This time even though the Porn industry is backing HD-DVD there is still other formats available....DVD and internet. This will play less of a role this time around. Now, the space is the key. Will movies need all that space??? No, but think about the software side. People will be able to back-up thier entire hard drive on a single disc. Sony has already made a 250GB BD. That's amazing, and IMO the software side will help win this war like the porn industry help win the last format war.
One last thing.....the entire Star Wars Dual Trilogies (1 - 6) on 1 disc!!!!!!!!!!!
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the entire Star Wars Dual Trilogies (1 - 6) on 1 disc!!
That is pretty sick.
Eat it Phil...
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Quote:
I never understood why a company would choose to sell a product at a net loss..Just setting your company up for failure IMO.
Loss Leader.....remember that from business classes....
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Legend
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Quote:
I never understood why a company would choose to sell a product at a net loss..Just setting your company up for failure IMO.
Same concept as stores having giveaways, radio stations passing out free t-shirts & hats, free samples at the confectionery.
At $500+ they probably would not sell many units except to the extreme gamer. The average mom or dad is not buying that as a gift, except possible at Christmas. Their real profits some from gaming royalties, accessories, and their online services.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
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the entire Star Wars Dual Trilogies (1 - 6) on 1 disc!!
That is pretty sick.
Holy crap are you serious?
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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All Pro
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Ok, if their cutting cost to make it, how about cutting cost for me to buy it? While we're at it, let me add in a few things I'd like:
1. Backwords compatible. I know it's got enough memory to store every game I play from now until eternity, but most of my games and controllers are PS2 and I still want to play/use them, and I need to be able to use my memory cards or have someway I can save them and not have to go drop any more money on an adapter for just the memory cards.
2. The blueray is a gamble. I want a game system and something that could play DVD's or C.D's. Make the blueray optional. I'm not intersted in having something that 1. Might never work out or 2. I may never use.
3. Some new games that are worth the money. Sorry but I'm not going to go drop 50 - 70 for a game for a system when I already own it. (I.E. Madden) I don't care how many bells and whistles you add, I already know what the game is, how to play it and how to beat it.
4. Some online free network features would be nice. That's part of what got my friends to get X Box 360's that they get to try things out and decide if they want them, not pay for them and then decide you don't want it.
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1st String
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Quote:
2. The blueray is a gamble. I want a game system and something that could play DVD's or C.D's. Make the blueray optional. I'm not intersted in having something that 1. Might never work out or 2. I may never use.
Sony remembers all too well losing out in the VHS/Betamax wars.
PS3 is an integral part of their strategy for Blu-Ray. Through the PS3, they are positioning Blu-Ray in a couple of million homes by the end of 2007. It is the only current mainstream avenue for high-def DVD (until M$'s HD-DVD add-on is released).
The funny thing about this strategy though, is that they are actually risking having two products fail by tying them together like this.
PS3 sales are pitiful. All Microsoft has to do is offer an inexpenive add-on HD-DVD drive and then Blu-Rays competition ramps up dramatically. Being that XBox360 is already in almost 11 million homes, the vast majority of their expense is already out of the way.... all they need now is the expense of the add-on HD-DVD player and they can crush the only technological reason for getting a PS3.
The next 6-8 months could make or break PS3 and BluRay... but I see them as definitely joined at the hip.
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If what I heard today is correct... the Wii is almost outselling the PS3 and XBOX 360 combined in the last 2 months. There are still more PS2 game systems being sold than PS3.
According to sales figures published by the NPD group, the Nintendo Wii dominated console sales in February and almost outsold the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 combined.
The Wii sold 335,000 consoles while the 360 sold 228,000 and the Sony PlayStation 3 sold 127,000 units. One interesting figure from NPD is that the PlayStation 2 console is still going strong and sold 295,000 units.
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Sony PlayStation 3 sold 127,000 units
Actually that figure is ALOT less. NPD reports Sony's sales records which Sony considers it sales when they ship from the plant. Every PS3 you see sitting on store shelves is figured into Sony's sales figures. According to NexGen (which has the most acurate numbers) it was really around 77,000 for February actually sold to consumers. Which really shouldn't suprise anyone since PS3 doesn't have many good games, and none released in February. PS3 won't make a push until next year. I know a lot of people playing Socom and personally that won't buy the system until games like Metal Gear Solid 4, the next Socom 4/5, Final Fantasy 13 comes out on the PS3. They have no reason to actually buy one atm.
But with that all said the Wii will win the war. Period. Nintendo is very smart. They made a cheap inexpensive machine that has good graphics and excellent game play. Now they aren't ZOMG graphics but they are certainly good enough for the casual gamer and young kids. Parents aren't going to buy a system for $400 - $600 dollars when they can get a Wii. The hard core gamers are going to stick to either PS3 and the 360 or both and a lot of people are predicting the PC to make another push like it did in the late 90's and early 2000's.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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Quote:
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Sony PlayStation 3 sold 127,000 units
Actually that figure is ALOT less. NPD reports Sony's sales records which Sony considers it sales when they ship from the plant. Every PS3 you see sitting on store shelves is figured into Sony's sales figures. According to NexGen (which has the most acurate numbers) it was really around 77,000 for February actually sold to consumers. Which really shouldn't suprise anyone since PS3 doesn't have many good games, and none released in February. PS3 won't make a push until next year. I know a lot of people playing Socom and personally that won't buy the system until games like Metal Gear Solid 4, the next Socom 4/5, Final Fantasy 13 comes out on the PS3. They have no reason to actually buy one atm.
But with that all said the Wii will win the war. Period. Nintendo is very smart. They made a cheap inexpensive machine that has good graphics and excellent game play. Now they aren't ZOMG graphics but they are certainly good enough for the casual gamer and young kids. Parents aren't going to buy a system for $400 - $600 dollars when they can get a Wii. The hard core gamers are going to stick to either PS3 and the 360 or both and a lot of people are predicting the PC to make another push like it did in the late 90's and early 2000's.
And what you have to remember is that the hardcore gamer market is MUCH smaller than people think.
Basically, take GameCube and subtract 5-10 million hardware sales and you have the hardcore gamers.
I consider myself a casual gamer, I buy my yearly Maddens and whatever must have games that come out (not many, usually the Nintendo releases).
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I think I am getting a Wii shortly. Well, maybe not shortly, but as soon as the GameCrazy gets on in stock.
Whats the deal with the controller? you have to buy two seperate parts? Does it come with one full controller?
Eat it Phil...
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Which really shouldn't suprise anyone since PS3 doesn't have many good games, and none released in February. PS3 won't make a push until next year.
and they are going to have a hard time getting out of this problem. A LOT of game programmers hate how the coding structure is set up for the PS3, and some are even staying away from it all together.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Which really shouldn't suprise anyone since PS3 doesn't have many good games, and none released in February. PS3 won't make a push until next year.
and they are going to have a hard time getting out of this problem. A LOT of game programmers hate how the coding structure is set up for the PS3, and some are even staying away from it all together.
Actually that's an internet Rumor most likley started by Sony haters. There is numerous developers on record that are not Sony exclusives that have said the Sony Dev kit is very easy to use and make games with. The real reason is Sony got thier dev kit out late and there was only a certain amount of dev kits at first. That delayed some of the smaller companies from getting a kit until late last summer. There is numorous games that are coming out later this year and early next.
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The money I spent on my PS3 has been well worth it. I've been somewhat biased since I've liked the PSX since it's been around over the Box, but I never really sat down and gave the 360 a good look. I went over my friend's house who has been borrowing his bro's 360 and wanted me to check it out since he knows I like my PS3.
I have to admit, I was kind of disappointed. And I can say that without my Playstation bias coming in. I played one game that I have a demo for on my PS3 and can say the graphics were crisper on the PS3. I played one game that he said thought looked pretty good, and I thought it was complete garbage. It looked like a last gen game on a next gen console.
I got a chance to see Gears of War. The overall graphics were nice, but flawed. Pixels missing in scenes. The effects used were great- shadows, lightening, etc. That was the best part of the game, but I didn't think the graphic quality was anything better than what I've seen before, they just used some of the effects and shadowing to their advantage.
And the 2 things I hate the most about the Box- the awkward controller with the staggered control sticks and paying to play online. The money you save by buying a 360 over a PS3, you lose by playing online. I'm sure someone will give the usual "you get what you pay for with Playstation online" argument, but I've had zero problems in over 3 months and no lag.
I think the hardcore gamers are buying the 360 and PS3 over the Wii. The Wii looks fun, but gimmicky, and seems like it could wear off on me faster. I think when the PS3 gets more of their software released, it will catch them up. Like I said, it's been well worth the money for me. The 360 is still a good system, but I wasn't as impressed as I thought I should be when I played some of the games.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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2nd String
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J/C
From what I understand, the 360 launch was worse than the PS3. Sure, the 360s flew off the shelf, but you have to remember the technical issues that soon followed.
Sony will make up ground with Sony exclusives like Gran Tourismo, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc...
I do think that Sony needs to bring the cost of the core system down at least another $100 though to make purchasing the system more attractive to the average consumer.
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With me I bought Ps3 because I had a Ps2 and because I wasn't impressed with the 360. I remember the first time I went over to my friends house and played Halo. They all sat there just staring at the scren like it was the greatest game ever or something, I just didn't see it, to me its will and always will be a random FPS.  Some Xbox people still have blinders on. They just want to look like their purchse was worth while, that's what I think. Then it came down to my game selction. I get mostly sports games but maybe a few others. But my favorite game of all time is MGS the original on Psx, so I couldn't miss MGS4. And with that being said, I wanted GTA also, so there you go. I just looked over the major player games that were a must have for me and I picked accordingly. MGS? CHECK, GTA? CHECK, FF? CHECK, MADDEN? CHECK, and so on. It was quite a simple choice for me. And as you addressed Dawgpound, 360's controller IS weird, its too spread out or something, I just can't seem to put my finger on what it is. Maybe its just coming from us SONY guys, but I'm curious abot what non 360 people think of the controller? Is it good or is it crap? BTW, Dawgpound, when you have your [Email]Folding@home[/Email] up how long do you leave your Ps3 on? all the time? do you think its safe? I just don't want something to happen to mine.lol.
Last edited by tastybrownies; 03/27/07 07:03 PM.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
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Yeah, I was worried about the same thing with the Folding. I have left it on long enough to complete an entire molecule without anything going on. The thing that made me mad was, the first time I did the program, I left it on for like 10 hours, came home, and the Stanford server was down, and my completed project wouldn't upload. I thought maybe if I shut it off, it would save and retry the next time. It didn't, and I didn't credit for it. I left it on the next day for about 9 1/2 hours and it worked fine. I started another one today, looks like it will take 7 1/2 hours for this one, but I'll probably pause it to play some games later tonight. I figured if it's for a good cause, I don't mind leaving it on to run it. The cooling system is pretty good, and doesn't seem to get too hot (just make sure it's not in a small closed space so it's vented properly).
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
PS3 Breaks record in Britain PS3's a Record Breaker 165,000 consoles sold in just three days. by Rob Burman, IGN UK UK, March 27, 2007 - As expected, PlayStation 3 has become the fastest selling home console in British history, with 165,000 consoles flying off the shelves since it was launched last Friday. Thanks to plenty of early stock - compared to the Wii and Xbox 360 - most people could walk into a store over the weekend and buy a console without any hassle. In fact, many retailers still have units available and the 165,000 consoles sold only account for a third of the overall UK stock. PS3 comfortably beat the Wii and Xbox 360 launches, which managed to sell 105,000 and 70,000 respectively. However, while PS3 may be the best-selling home console, it still failed to eclipse Sony's PSP, which racked up a staggering 185,000 sales during launch weekend. http://ps3.ign.com/articles/776/776086p1.html
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,483
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,483 |
Let's see what Microsoft's fanboys have ot say about that one.
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,483
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,483 |
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Review Finding your own path has rarely been this much fun. by Jeremy Dunham March 26, 2007 - As the successor to the most popular role-playing trove in videogame history, the PlayStation 3 was in dire need of a good RPG. Luckily, Sony's system took only four months to get one as The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has finally been completed. Originally planned as a launch title (and already released to a billion awards on PC and 360 last year), Oblivion is one of the most intimidating games you'll ever find. Enormous doesn't even begin to describe its scale as it dwarfs just about every other competitor in the genre. The number of sidequests and customization options is off the charts and the main quest itself is deep and engaging on its own. Regardless of its platform, Oblivion is still incredibly huge.Of course, if you've already played The Elder Scrolls on the other platforms, then its description here is a familiar one. That familiarity makes sense given that the game is practically the same adventure its counterparts were in 2006. Indeed, with few exceptions, the content in Oblivion PS3 is nigh-identical to its brethren in every way. Whether you're playing through the Daedric missions, the Faction quests, the Master Training segments, or the brutal Arena challenges, you're getting what's essentially an unchanged experience. Well okay, it's mostly unchanged... So what's different? For one, the majority of downloadable content available on PC and Xbox 360 didn't make the deadline. That means that Mehrunes' Razor, the Vile Lair, the Wizard's Tower and other post-release goodies are nowhere to be found (and that includes this month's "Shivering Isles" expansion). There isn't a clear answer as to whether or not users will ever be able to download these add-ons either -- so there's a definite possibility that what you see is what you get. Don't be fooled: The Elder Scrolls isn't all "plains and rolling hills."But what you do get is beyond impressive. Bethesda was generous enough to incorporate its best attachment so far in the form of its 10-hour extra, "Knights of the Nine" and unlike previous iterations, you can accept the mission as soon as you escape the first dungeon. But even without this nifty addition, the PS3 version of Oblivion is still a colossal undertaking. There are well over 250 major points of interest in the province of Cyrodiil, and how the story unfolds is completely up to you. It's in this way that The Elder Scrolls is like a true pen-and-paper RPG as it allows you make your own path and tell your own story. Despite its multitude of user-defined jumping-off points, though, Oblivion's plot and storyline are still very good. But what makes these bits interesting isn't because of any one central theme or direction. No, the narrative here is appealing because of how Bethesda has taken multiple unrelated scenarios and put them together. On its own, your character's quest to fulfill the Emperor's final wishes to seek out his last heir and close the gates of Oblivion is all fine and good, but when you combine that with the excellent Guild storylines and the dozens and dozens of supporting tales, you get something far more compelling. It goes a long way towards creating a believable and completely autonomous world. The whole review is at IGN I can't wait to check this one out, never played Elder Scrolls Before though. Can someone tell me what to expect? I'm getting so off topic its not even funny but hey, its better not to creat another thread that will bog down server load times. 
Find what you love and let it kill you.
-Charles Bukowski
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,426
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,426 |
Quote:
Let's see what Microsoft's fanboys have ot say about that one.
I'm no fanboy as I don't have any of the consoles... but ponder this for a second:
Quote:
Thanks to plenty of early stock - compared to the Wii and Xbox 360 - most people could walk into a store over the weekend and buy a console without any hassle. In fact, many retailers still have units available and the 165,000 consoles sold only account for a third of the overall UK stock.
If you think about it for a second, this can be taken as an awfully rosy painting of a poor performance.
LOTS of stock sitting on shelves seems to be the unofficial tagline for the PS3.
Just some food for thought. 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Fantasy & Gaming Sony reportedly to cut PS3 cost
with cheaper chips
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