DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A change of perspective...

I was going to post this in the "Official Fire Shurmer" thread, but it's on lockdown. I mainly wanted to do it just to show how similar fans are all over the league. I'm certain that as you read through it, you'll find several-er, interesting (read "familiar-sounding") fan comments interspersed throughout the article.

Gave me a chuckle... and a different vantage point from which to study our Browns.... and our Browns fans.

enjoy.

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Coach Mike McCarthy has had to win in face of heavy criticism from Green Bay Packers fans

By Gary Shelton, Times Sports Columnist
In Print: Tuesday, February 1, 2011


[Associated Press]

Mike McCarthy has faced criticism from Packers fans who were dissatisfied with his play-calling and his demeanor.



IRVING, Texas — In this light, darned if the guy doesn't look a little bit like Vince Lombardi. Especially around the chin.

Mike McCarthy stood at the lectern, the spotlight of the Super Bowl all over him, and furrowed his brow. He was talking about the task at hand, about winning a Super Bowl for the Green Bay Packers. He stared into the cameras without blinking, and there was something as familiar about his glare as an old photograph.

In this setting, you might even suggest the guy sounded a bit like Mike Holmgren. Especially around the second chin.

Behind him, there was a backdrop with trophies and Packer emblems. He was talking about the task at hand and attention to details, and his voice neither rose nor fell. He sounded a bit like your fifth-grade science teacher, to tell the truth.

These days, McCarthy looks a lot like a success. There is nothing like success to add wisdom to your eyes or toughness to your walk. These days, it is easy to compare him to Lombardi or Holmgren or Curly Lambeau or the other Packer coaches who have walked before him. These days, he is a visionary.

A few months ago, he was the resident idiot of a village called Green Bay.

Nothing like a Super Bowl to smarten a guy up, is there?

• • •

"MM is awful. He's always been awful. He would have to bounce back from really awful to be awful."

— Jenningslongcatch

"He is the coach, it is his responsibility to have his team focused, disciplined and ready to play each week. I see none of these things happening, even when we do play great, it will only be for a quarter or two. It is also his job to light a fire under their butts and get them emotionally fired up, and again this is not happening."

— Cryptic

"I don't have any faith in MM any more. Things are not changing quickly enough and the same mistakes are being repeated over and over again."

— ForgetFavre

• • •

It was October, and McCarthy was a moron. At least, that seemed to be the consensus of the visitors to the forum at packerforum.com. The question was not whether McCarthy should be fired; it was how soon.

He lost too many close games. He was 0-5 in overtimes, and he was 3-14 in games decided by five points or fewer. The fans hated the way he called plays, and they hated that he was still calling them. His team was 3-2, and if anyone wanted to compare him to an old Packers coach, there were going to be a lot more Lindy Infante votes than Lombardi.

Such is the lesson for our times. Sometimes, you have to ride out the turbulence. If nothing else, give McCarthy credit for that much.

The guy can coach, too. He has transformed Aaron Rodgers into a star. He has led a team that suffered 14 season-ending injuries to the Super Bowl. He has won as an underdog, and on the road, to get here.

When it comes to coaching, do you know of a better IQ test?

• • •

"If you're going to go for it on 4th down at the one, you'd better believe you can hammer it in with your FB or sneak it over. Otherwise, kick the … field goal moron!"

— Triple Guy

"I was an assistant coach for a high school team that had three straight undefeated seasons and I can tell you that, yes, it is the coach's fault. No, it's not easy making adjustments as a head coach it is your job to do so."

— Spanish Rose

"MM — Learn how to run your own offense. I said it once before, I want MM out if his trendy predictable play calling continues. I want GRUDEN!"

— Armand34

• • •

This is the sound of passion, of course. But this is also the sound of Green Bay, where the town owns the team and, at times, wants to coach it, too.

There for a while, a lot of people in Titletown seemed to think they could do it a sight better than McCarthy.

He was too bland, they said. He threw too much. He blew too many leads. He didn't adjust. Not only that, but he didn't fight hard enough for Brett Favre.

If McCarthy is nothing else, however, he is tough. Maybe that's the Pittsburgh in him. Maybe it's from being the son of a man who was a cop and a firefighter and a bar owner. So the son grew up with some thickness to his skin.

Now, he is here, in the Super Bowl, coaching against the team he cheered for as a boy.

• • •

So, how many MORE years do we need to give TT and MM the benefit of the doubt? I am just curious because this came up last year too. I personally think we have collected more than enough data on these 2 to make an informed decision.

— Munny

After the season, I want McCarthy fired.

— Jordan

He hasn't done it in the 5 years or what ever he has been here. What makes you think he will start now?

— Longtimefan

• • •

The thing is, beneath all the criticism, the guy is a pretty cool story.

Consider this: With this as the 45th Super Bowl game, there have been a lot of coaches over the years. Some came from the offensive side of the ball, some from the defensive side.

Never before, however, has one come from the toll booth.

When he was younger, McCarthy spent a summer watching the cars pass in the middle of the night. He was a young, unpaid assistant at Pitt trying to crack into the business, and to keep a little bit of money in his pocket, he worked from midnight to 8 a.m. at Exit No. 5 (Allegheny Valley) on the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

"It didn't pay much," McCarthy said Monday evening. "It was something I felt I needed to do after graduating from Fort Hays State. You get your master's degree, and you go and collect tolls. That doesn't quite add up.

"Really, it was a good experience. I did my job and I studied (the playbook) while I was there when there were no cars coming."

Eventually, he left a lucrative career in coin-taking to get into coaching. At times, that seemed to take a toll, too.

Now, he is here, and the rest of the world is applauding. The Super Bowl does that to a coach.

Who knows? If McCarthy wins Sunday, maybe the critics will even invite him back next year.

• • •

"I like Mike as a coach. Always have."

— Longtimefan

"Even if MM looks like a terrible playcaller during regular season, he transforms into Bill Walsh in the playoffs."

— PackerRS

"As soon as I see great clock management, I will be sold."

— Ivo610

Grumpy in Green Bay

funny read and thanks for posting it. We do see alot of that here and I am guilty of doing much of what was said so perhaps in 5 years Ill be saying while the Browns are on the eve of the superbowl. So and so is a great coach.

Pat Shurmur is the best coach we have had since Marty. Colt has played lousy in all but 1 or 2 drives a game and even those drives rarely produced points. Hillis for the first time all year gets healthy in week 14. Hardesty injured pretty much all season. Jackson was lost before the first game. Steinbach was lost before the first game. Mo and Moore went down with concussions early and just now getting it back. Cribbs has battled Hammy and groin injuries all year. Ben watson is on IR from his 3rd concussion. Pashos missed the first 4 weeks. Robiskie was so bad we cut him. Norwood begins to emerge then he is on IR. Little lost confidence and had the dropsies for most of the year.

All of that was just on offense. Defense had its on issues. 2 rookies starting on the DL. Ward was banged up early then gone for the year. Fujita didnt play well and then he was gone for the year. RDE could have been replaced by a garden gnome and made more plays. Free safety play has been the worst I have ever seen from the Browns ever.

Despite all negatives, we were in all games except for the Titans and Texans games. Just about every game was in doubt going into the final 5 minutes. I worry about a lot of things with this team but coaching isnt one of them.

LOL That gave me a chuckle.. Dude just coached a super bowl winning team and was undefeated this season until last week and the boo birds are coming out

If that doesn't prove that fans don't know anything, I'm not sure what will

People on here seem to take it for granted how some of the youngsters developed under him...sure, Colt regressed and if Rubin had regressed too and rooks like Sheard, Taylor and Little would have shown little, THEN I would be on the HC too...but the development of those players shows that the coaching is fine and that maybe, just maybe our QB has reached his peak or can't get much better...

Dqwell hasn't played for essentially 2 years and has been a solid player all year, the rooks aren't just rooks they ALREADY are core players in their 1st season....Little is leading receiver and Sheard is leading the team in sacks and FF....you guys think that's a given? Is it all on the players and Heckert only? Our Defense HAS IMPROVED....DESPITE a scheme switch...that's a given for you?

So if you blame Shurmur for Colt's and the Offense regression, you should at least give him props for all those other players that improved during the season....looking over the roster....name me 1 other player that has regressed as much as Colt has...maybe, just maybe the talent just isn't there "to get better"

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That article was from February 1, 2011.

The Super Bowl was played February 6, 2011

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And?

Daman thought the article was from THIS season. I was just pointing out the error of his ways.

But I agree with him on his central point. Fans are stupid.

To expand it to the Offense...I don't take it for granted that a 5th round rookie gets thrown into the LG job and has done an admirable job, improving to pretty decent level during the season

Our Offense was hit by injuries a lot more than the D...Watson, Cribbs, Thomas, Pashos and Mack (after 5 or so games) were the same guys they were last season or the season before (not saying they are all good, just talking development/regression)...considering the change in scheme that's acceptable...Colt was the only player that has considerably regressed by both eye and stat test on Offense....sure, Hillis wasn't the same but he wasn't healthy either...the last 2 weeks a healthy Hillis looked like the Hillis we knew again, didn't he?

On defense, while Jauron gets most of the props, the HC is still the HC....he watches tape of the opposing Offense too for gameday preparation and I'm sure he talks with Jauron about how best to stop or slow down the opposing Offense and the HC has to "ok" every plan that goes into gameday...so, if Shurmur gets blame for bad Offense performance, I think it's just fair he should get props for good defense performance/development...this isn't a team with 2 Coordinators, that have nothing to do with each other...Shurmur IS the HC and there's nothing planed that hasn't gone to his desk

As Mourg has already stated...for a team that has done a 180 on Offense and defense scheme, for an org that HAD TO do a 180 on roster age (due to stop gapping/win now/save face mode by previous regimes), being in in all but 2 games till the end is a big fat compliment...not sure many 4 win teams can say that and I'm 100% sure no1st year team of our previous HCs can say that

Colt's regressed?

Year Team G QBRat Comp Att Pct Yds Y/G Y/A TD Int Rush Yds Y/G Avg TD Sack YdsL Fum FumL
2010 Cleveland 8 74.5 135 222 60.8 1576 197.0 7.1 6 9 28 136 17.0 4.9 1 23 132 1 0
2011 Cleveland 13 74.6 265 463 57.2 2733 210.2 5.9 14 11 61 212 16.3 3.5 0 32 173 11 2




I dont see it...but, okay.

Remember last year...we won 2 games against good teams with very little contribution from him, and he threw 2 INTs against Pitt just like he did 2 weeks ago.

What Colt has done...is played in a new scheme and was asked to do completely different things. That takes a learning curve. And at the beginning of the year he looked like a QB whod never played the WCO system ever before in his life...which he didnt.
Then as the year progressed, he did things better...sure he didnt throw the slants harder, or the edge throws harder...but his decision making and pocket presence and QB play improved. The evidence there is that his WRs numbers went up (in targets anyway) and his YPA number rose (from 5.5 through about 8 games to 5.9 by the time he was done) and Moore, Watson, and our RBs numbers went down in receiving.

Point is...everything that Colt detractors have said Colt cant do...he's done better...Except throwing lasers...and when he sets his feet, he puts good zip on it (which is something he needs to do MUCH better).
The Colt bashing has if you look around gone to a few points...

The eye test
The record
His arm strength
His timing (though this way its related to his arm strength)
His pocket presence/decision making

I ignore the first cuz its just bunk...the eye test is seeing what you want to see, so...its all opinion based. His record is awful yes...but...eh, thats a product of the opponents. Theyre all good in division...and we arent. Weve been in every game though v. division opponents with Colt at the helm...ill take it.
Arm strength...its been a concern for countless players in the NFL that still succeed...Drew Brees, Chad Pennington, Joe Montana, and many other playoff winning QBs have had questions about arm strength...if you can adjust youre fine.
Timing, Pocket presence, and decision making are all things that are improved with time in the system, time with the pass catchers, and time with coaches.


I feel like Colt has had less opportunity to step up in a pocket and make a throw than all but about 5 QBs.
I am not saying that Colt is ready to take us to the SB. Im not saying that Colt is the guy for the next 20 years...What i am saying is that with another year...Colt can reach not his ceiling, but can reach the point where he can show whether he gets it or not...and with as hard as he works...you better believe hes going to make every effort to get there...which is the best state weve had in our QB spot since the return. better than DA, Quinn, Frye, McCown...none of them have ever gotten better. While its not a ringing endorsement for Colt...we shouldnt throw out better because we want best.

a young QB throws 1 TD per game in his first full season of starting...Brady threw 17, Big Ben threw 18...

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I ignore the first cuz its just bunk...the eye test is seeing what you want to see, so...its all opinion based.

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True ... if you are peering though orange colored classes and you are not seeing all the factors that you formulated your conclusions from ... Agreed.

The stats support only one side of this debate and correctly so as you have illustrated, but stats can't show you things like leadership, pocket presents and poise or even if the player (QB in this case) can make the throws he has to make at this level of competition.

Exactly...

I see a QB thats made progress, and thats exactly what ive been looking for, so i see it.

If youre looking for him to laser the ball on a consistent basis and step up into the pocket on most every throw...you'll see he's not doing that.

The eyes test is all in what you look for...so the eye test is junk. The only eye test determination we can make on Colt is that he's not where he needs to be. Whether or not he can get there is where the eye test becomes all murky and cataracted

Another thing I constantly see on other message boards... "are we're cursed? I swear to god we're cursed!!", "this (insert mishap) only happens to us!", "the refs hate us, theyre throwing the game, they've always hated us!!!".... Every. Single. Team. Message. Board... regardless of the sport.

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He is better than Rac, who took them to the playoffs in year three

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I must've been in a coma for that season.

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We are Miracle Whip tough.

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Is that good or bad?

Yup.

It's interesting that the team in question was arguably better than our team in every measurable way even at the time the article was written, but the same level of angst and doom&gloom was present on that message board.

Something tells me that even if we see measurable progress next year (and in subsequent years), there will still be:

those who want such-and-such fired
those who want to string up the coaching staff after a tough loss
those who want to purge the team from top to bottom and start fresh
those who think the most recent draft choices were jacked up... and that they (and 3 of their beer-swilling 'couchpotatobuds') could have done a better job
those who [insert negative board cliche here]

until the team wins a Super Bowl.

And if the team falls short the following year, look for the same litany of despair and frustration to begin anew.

why? Because "fan" is short for fanatic... and the last time I checked my Merriam-Webster, no trace of words like "common sense" or "calm demeanor" were found anywhere in the definition...

just sayin'....

And what's the saying about fanaticism (there are so many)... A fanatic is someone consciously overcompensating for a secret doubt? Or fanaticism is about redoubling the effort when you've forgotten your aim. Lol. not sure how they apply here but I'm certain someone can put it together.

Thanks Joe. If you had agreed with me, then I would know I was wrong.

Pat Schurmur is the best coach since Marty?

Marty, won divisions, alot of times.

Marty coached pro-bowls, that means he made the conference championships.

Look at it this way. The NFL made a NEW RULE MID SEASON TO COVER THE IN EPTITUDE OF THE CLEVELAND BROWNS SIDELINE!

A rule that effects all 32 NFL teams, because the Cleveland Browns can't recognize a concussion in the Starting Freaking Quarterback!

When he got Jacked up, Helmut to Chinstrap!!!!!!!!!!

Oh YEAH! Greatest coach, The Sideline has had its stuff together.
If the Coach isn't supposed to be responsible for anything else, he should at least be in control of his sideline.

Good grief! this is the most talented group of Browns DB's since the 1980's and they ain't nowhere near making the playoffs!!!!!

There ain't no way Schurmurs the Best coach since Marty. Not yet anyway.

Not yet anyway!

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Pat Schurmur is the best coach since Marty?

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What part of that statement didn't you understand? Not that I agree with Mour on that, personally, the best coach we had since Marty was probably belichick (pains me to say it)

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Fans cheered the ouster.

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Wasn't Bill B. our coach when the team announced it was moving to Baltimore?

He was. I believe he resigned after the move.

perhaps I remember it incorrectly, then. If so, I stand corrected. did he really resign?

Like I said earlier, I was off into other things at that time, and wasn't following the Browns as closely as I do now....

He coached the Browns through the '95 season (the last before the move) and was an assistant under Parcells in New England in '96. I don't believe Modell fired him.

thanks.

events from that time are pretty hazy, knowhati'msayin'?

You may need to do some research Clem..Belichick wasn't fired as HC of the Browns.. he just wasn't rehired as HC of the Ravens.

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Did I reply fast enough to satisfy everyone?

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Not in this case.

[Clemdawg inserts chuckle here]


You Dawgs are a mess!