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The way Bradford has been getting pounded, I see Kalil to the Rams
Yeah that.
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According to this here...
NFL tie-breaking procedures
"If ties exist in any grouping except (2) above, such ties shall be broken by strength-of-schedule. If any ties cannot be broken by strength-of-schedule, the divisional or conference tie-breakers, if applicable, shall be applied. Any ties that still exist shall be broken by a coin flip."
Based on that, Carolina and Miami are tied with record and SoS but Carolina gets the nod based on their division winning %.
As for KC and Seattle, they have the same record, same SoS and same Division winning %, but Kansas City has a conference winning % of .3333 while Seattle has a winning % of .5000.
So....unless those rules laid out are false, I'm not sure what I'm missing.
I've read multiple places now that KC/Sea will come down to a coin flip too. Very odd.
Editted to say - I see my error now. It says division OR conf winning pct, as opposed to division AND conf winning pct. That seems really dumb.
So in that case, Miami and Carolina are still fine, but you're absolutely correct that KC and Seattle will come down to a coin flip for 11 and 12. Thanks for the heads up 
Maybe the 'if applicable' disclaimer means that it only applies to those teams in the same division//conference but I'm not sure about it either way.
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I see lots of discussion about teams trading for Luck, and the discussion is all over the board with numerous teams being mentioned.
From my view, Luck is ours if Indy decides to trade and we decide to make the move. Bank it.
First, Indy has to decide to trade, and that's a big IF. They are either going to draft Luck, or trade the pick. No way they simply draft another player and allow St. Louis to gain the bounty of trading away the pick, so we don't even need to consider that as a possibility.
If Indy decides they are going to draft Luck, I hope they do the rest of the league a favor and simply say so. It serves no real purpose to field offers if in your heart you know you aren't trading for any amount. It's just wasting time, both yours and their's.
As I see it, we hold the best package for Indy.
Unless St. Louis or Minnesota become players for Luck, which at this point hasn't been considered a realistic possibility, a trade with us drops the Colts 3 positions in the draft. Better than any other team can offer.
We also hold 2 first round picks THIS YEAR....and that is big. While the thought of future picks sound good, there is nothing better than having immediate payout.
If this does get down to future picks, we can offer just as much as anybody else. Future picks are future picks. They are all the same. You can't bank the value until that future season plays out. It's like a stock option. You know when you will be able to cash it, you just don't know exactly what it will be worth.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Totally agree, Peen.
2 first rounders this year would be huge, for a team that decides to keep Peyton. Instant help for him, which you could add a pretty high piece with our pick as well as a decent later round pick with ours from ATL.
I would be for trading to get Luck, but I still have doubts that this organization wants to go down that road. People can argue whether or not that is the right thing to do, but there is no right answer, there is only what happens.
Still think Indy could have their cake and eat it too though, if they decide to trade away that pick, and could load up for this year, and either use a first this year or next year to trade out of that pick and push it back to use on a QB in another draft.
I still think Indy keeps the pick and keeps Manning, and puts up with the circus all year, along with the giant hit on their wallets.
I just can't imagine them letting Manning go. That guy has done more for that organization than maybe any player in the history of the league has done for any single team.
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
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Hard to explain how depressed I am after the rotten Colts lost. Thinking back to the Rams game when the ball hits the foot of a player and Dawson's chip shot field is missed. If we make that field goal The Rams have the first pick and the Browns have an excellent chance to secure Andrew Luck.
But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I repeat myself; I like Colt McCoy. I believe he can be a good player playing for a warm weather or dome team with good players around him.
I just don't see him as a player to win games in the North in December or January when you need the QB to win a game in the fourth quarter down by 7 or 10 points. It is not just about winning the Super Bowl it's about getting there.
The Browns are in a very tough division with strong QB play. You have to able to score points against good defenses late in the season.
We have to get a quarterback who is going to give you a chance to win championships for ten to fifteen years. Not just win some games here and there.
I am unsure about RG III. He may be the Big Kahuna or the whole enchilada. Heckert needs to put him under the microscope. If sold on him then do what it takes to get him.
My last straw of hope is the Colts like Griffin over Luck. Or, the Colts would take a major deal for Luck ( which I would not do if them).
I would offer the whole draft 1- through 7 and keep the xtra first and fourth for Luck. I would throw in McCoy to sweeten it. If I had to I would give up Cribbs.
The players with the best chance to succeed in the NFL come in rounds 1,2, and 3. Rounds 4 through 7 you hope they make the team and develop. Some do. Most do not.
The rule changes protect the QB and now receivers. The league is a passing league. They want scoring. The importance of the quarterback in today's game can not be understated.
Of course I would like to keep the all the draft picks we have and hope to make the right choices to improve the team. However, until we solve the quarterback position nothing will happen.
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
THREE first round picks for a guy that MIGHT be successful?? 
Just doesn't make sense.
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If we can get Luck using only draft picks from this year, I'd be all for it. But I don't think Indy will accept that. I don't want to dip into future drafts, even if it means getting our franchise QB. I don't want to get our franchise QB, then not be able to put pieces around him.
Now, if we pick up a quality #1 WR in FA (like a Dwayne Bowe), or a quality RT, or a quality LB, then that makes it a little easier.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
THREE first round picks for a guy that MIGHT be successful??
Just doesn't make sense.
Luck is one of the very best pro QB prospects to come out of college in the past decade. he has everything a franchise QB needs to be extremely successful. He can play in any offense.
We aren't going anywhere until and unless we get a QB. If we get the right one, cost doesn't matter.
Do you think that the Steelers would give up 3 first round picks, or Roethlisberger? How about the Packers .... 3 #1 picks, or Rodgers? Great QBs are worth their weight in gold. They are worth their weight in draft picks too, A great QB improves every single player around him, and we aren't going anywhere until we can find one for our team. We have to play Roethlisberger (a great QB) Flacco (and average to plus QB) and Dalton (a very promising young QB) twice a year each. We better get a guy who can match uo with these QBs or we better get used to the basement .... paint ... put up pictures ..... and maybe even get some nice mood lighting ..... because if we don't get a QB we'll be in the basement for a long time to come.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
I tend to agree, but we need a QB.
Flynn might be the answer. Get him signed, then use the picks for Blackmon, Richardson, whoever we deem right, then use pick 1b for another O-lineman.
Might be the ticket to getting some points scored.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
Yeah, but you've got a man-crush on Andrew Luck and I think you would like to give up every player on the team and put him alone against the opposing defense and you believe that Luck would succeed in such a scenario.
Some of you have some illogical romantic view of Andrew Luck and/or RG3.
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Yeah, but you've got a man-crush on Andrew Luck and I think you would like to give up every player on the team and put him alone against the opposing defense and you believe that Luck would succeed in such a scenario.
Some of you have some illogical romantic view of Andrew Luck and/or RG3.
What gives you that impression? 
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I wouldn't trade all those picks for 1 guy.. its just not worth it.
To bring up Rodgers and Roth in HINDSIGHT is easy to do. I understand Luck is a great prospect, but for one.. The Colts aren't going to give him up. No if's, ands, or buts about it..
RG3 will be there at 4, and is just as good as Luck. Add him, and you still have other picks available to build your team.
You really can't expect to throw Luck into the fire with little talent around him and think he will succeed. O wait.. you are going to give him a few years to adjust/learn the game b/c we invested so much right? smh. Don't do it.
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Legend
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Name me one WR that turned around a team.
How about a RB in this decade that turned a team into a championship team?
Maybe an OL that took a team from also ran to consistent division champions?
A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
I am sick to death of coming in last. We need to finally get the most important position on the field right, then we can fill holes. Doing it the opposite way is like worrying about bailing water out of a boat with no bottom. It might work for a while ... but in the end it gets you nowhere except sunk.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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I wouldn't trade all those picks for 1 guy.. its just not worth it.
It's worth it if he pans out.
QB is the only position you consider doing it, so I wouldn't say we shouldn't do it.
Bottom line is we need a QB, but sure, I'd rather keep the picks and find on somewhere else.
I'd rather not even draft a QB...use the picks on safer positions.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
How was Carolina turned around this year exactly? AJ Green Made Dalton look good.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Legend
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A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
How was Carolina turned around this year exactly? AJ Green Made Dalton look good.
offensively the Panthers have turned around.. the difference comes with wins and losses. They are definitely a more exciting team to watch w/ Cam under center.
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How was Carolina turned around?  From 1st overall pick in the draft and scoring 196 points last year, to 6-10 and scoring 406 points this year. Yeah, they more than doubled their scoring from last year. That's freakin' amazing. They went from 32nd in both offensive points and yards, to 5th in points and 7th in yards. If that's not a turnaround, I don't know what is. They still need some defensive help, They gave up 400+ points for the 2nd year in a row ..... but their offense made a 180 and went from junk to top 10 in one year. That's absolutely incredible. The Bengals went from last place to playoffs. They went from 20 to 18 in scoring, and from 322 to 344 points scored. Not a huge difference, but improvement from former Pro Bowl and 1st overall player in the 2003 draft Carson Palmer last year. Considering that Dalton is a rookie 2nd round pick, and as everyone reminds me when talking about another player, had no off-season at all, that's pretty damn impressive. He also had to face, as we have heard repeatedly, 3 top 10 defenses in the AFCN. If you can't see what those 2 young men did and be impressed, then I don't know what game you are watching.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
How was Carolina turned around this year exactly? AJ Green Made Dalton look good.
offensively the Panthers have turned around.. the difference comes with wins and losses. They are definitely a more exciting team to watch w/ Cam under center.
That's fine but Ytown said a great QB turns Teams around. Which simply is not the case with either.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Legend
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A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
How was Carolina turned around this year exactly? AJ Green Made Dalton look good.
offensively the Panthers have turned around.. the difference comes with wins and losses. They are definitely a more exciting team to watch w/ Cam under center.
That's fine but Ytown said a great QB turns Teams around. Which simply is not the case with either.
It's the first year for both guys. 
Wow.
No one expects a last place team to become a Super Bowl contender in 1 year.
Well .. maybe you do .... but rational people don't.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
How was Carolina turned around this year exactly? AJ Green Made Dalton look good.
offensively the Panthers have turned around.. the difference comes with wins and losses. They are definitely a more exciting team to watch w/ Cam under center.
That's fine but Ytown said a great QB turns Teams around. Which simply is not the case with either.
It's the first year for both guys.
Wow.
No one expects a last place team to become a Super Bowl contender in 1 year.
Well .. maybe you do .... but rational people don't.
Yet You expected Colt to succeed and the Browns to be good?  Pot meet Kettle 
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Legend
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No, I expected McCoy, in his 2nd year, to show progress from last year.
I expected him to show improvement over last year.
I expected him to lead the offense to improvement.
He didn't, at least not in any appreciable way. In the WCO the QB is directly involved in a larger percentage of plays than say Daboll's offense, which was adjusted to protect the QB. The QB has to carry the load. If he can't, then the offense collapses.
Our offense collapsed his year. We scored 87 points in McCoy's final 8 games. That is horrifically bad.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
I think that's a little steep just to move up 3 spots. However, if the price for Andrew Luck is our two 1sts and either a 2nd or 3rd (All from this year), I would definitely do that trade. Sure, he may be a bust, but every indicator is that he won't be. However, giving up 3 1st round picks (or more) to me does not do us much good since we'll have a hard time surrounding the guy with quality talent over the next few years unless we go out and just go free agent crazy ala Redskins.
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
I'd be willing to trade within the division, giving Cincy the #4 overall this year for their two first rounders this year and their first rounder next year!
That'd give 3 first rounders this year and 2 next year! I think I could get some quality players out of those selections. The first selection would come at 17 and the other two would range from 21 to 32 depending.
I think the #17 pick over the past 2 years RT Nate Solder (NE) and LG Mike Iupati (SF) haven't been bad picks at all. Even QB Josh Freeman (TB) wasn't a bad pick at that spot.
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Legend
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
I'd be willing to trade within the division, giving Cincy the #4 overall this year for their two first rounders this year and their first rounder next year!
That'd give 3 first rounders this year and 2 next year! I think I could get some quality players out of those selections. The first selection would come at 17 and the other two would range from 21 to 32 depending.
I think the #17 pick over the past 2 years RT Nate Solder (NE) and LG Mike Iupati (SF) haven't been bad picks at all. Even QB Josh Freeman (TB) wasn't a bad pick at that spot.
Why would Cincinnati do that?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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Too many holes on this team to trade up... we can't afford to do that.
You can always afford to trade up for a true franchise QB.
I would give 3 first round picks for him and never even blink.
Yeah, but you've got a man-crush on Andrew Luck and I think you would like to give up every player on the team and put him alone against the opposing defense and you believe that Luck would succeed in such a scenario.
Some of you have some illogical romantic view of Andrew Luck and/or RG3.
And some of us are "Drama Quenns"...
Quit stretching what everyone who wants Luck for 3 #1's and a couple of other picks...Into something we're NOT saying...
It ain't "The Entire Draft"...
It ain't "Every Player on the Team"...
It ain't "Selling the Farm"...
We get it...U want to build first...Cool...
WE want what has a VERY HIGH chance of being a STUD at QB when he's available...And that's available NOW...
Y...Throw this one into the equation...lol...Schefter just said Indy would take RGIII at #2 if they were at 2...And MIGHT consider him at #1...Now read this into that...
Luck will NO WAY IN HELL be a back-up to Manning this year...Indy pays Manning the 28M...Manning may just be an Elway and be part of that FO for YEARS...Don't ... him off...Indy takes RGIII at #1 and here sits Luck at 2 with the Rams...Maybe even take our offer and move to 4...Then do whatever they need to to land RGIII and he SITS behind an Indy LEGEND for a year...And Manning stays a Happy Camper...
Man I hope Griffin just BLOWS EM' AWAY all Spring...
Soak THAT one for a minute...lol...
Go Browns!!!
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Sorry, I meant St. Louis.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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I think we're getting to the point where the Colts will say they're willing to draft anyone in order to get a team to offer up the farm for the #1 spot (even the Rams or Vikings). The Colts would be better served moving down 2-5 spots and picking up a few extra picks and drafting talent to surround Manning for one last hurrah. They could get a developmental QB in round 2 or 3. Or they could just draft Luck and let him sit. But I think that's not the ideal scenario for them.
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I dunno ..... I can't see the Colts passing on Luck unless he loses his right arm between now and the draft. I would be perfectly content to "settle" for Luck.  lol I am really intrigued by RG3 though. I just have this feeling that he is going to be a really special NFL talent. I will be ecstatic if we come out of this draft with Luck or RG3.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Name me one WR that turned around a team.
That's a straw argument. I never said that a WR turned around a team. I never contended that any single player turned around a team.
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How about a RB in this decade that turned a team into a championship team?
I never stated this either. See above.
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Maybe an OL that took a team from also ran to consistent division champions?
Well, let's see. San Fran is 13-3 in the second year after using two first round picks on OL. Alex Smith, after doing next to nothing for 5 years now has the fewest ints of any starting QB. True, he doesn't have 40+ TDs, but he doesn't need them. He had 17 TDs and 5 int.
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A great QB turns teams around. Look at what Dalton and Newton did this year as rookies. (and I wouldn't even call Dalton "great)
Newton's team still isn't playoff bound. It'll take more than him. The Bengals had additional weapons surrounding Dalton.
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I am sick to death of coming in last. We need to finally get the most important position on the field right, then we can fill holes.
So, you're calling for Shurmur's firing too?
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,984 Likes: 361 |
I am calling for this team to finally try to properly address the QB position with an elite talent.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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No, I expected McCoy, in his 2nd year, to show progress from last year.
Great. In the first year of a new system? A second year QB in his second system and you expected miracles? Without the same production (it wasn't even close) from the running game as he had last year and with a receiving corps that couldn't hold onto the ball and a receiver that was cut from the team due to ineptness?
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I expected him to show improvement over last year.
I expected that from Shurmur. The Browns were 5-11 last year and the team went 4-12 this year. That's not improvement.
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I expected him to lead the offense to improvement.
With what he had as weapons? You might have well as expected to have won the lottery.
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Our offense collapsed his year. We scored 87 points in McCoy's final 8 games. That is horrifically bad.
The play-calling was atrocious all season long.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I am calling for this team to finally try to properly address the QB position with an elite talent.
And that's why nobody should care what you call for. Elite QB? LOL How many elite QBs are there?
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Why would Cincinnati do that?
Maybe they want Justin Blackmon to throw the ball too along with AJ Green.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,984 Likes: 361 |
Both Dalton and Newton improved their respective teams, as rookies, with no off-season ... and with teams that both had worse records than we did last year.
We had a far, far better defense than newton had. We gave up fewer pints than Cincinnati did defensively.
There are a ton of excuses, but the bottom line is that McCoy declined this year. There are a lot of things that he did poorly that have nothing to do with the coaches or other players. Newton and Dalton led their teams. McCoy played leader, but really did nothing to encourage others to follow.
His final 8 games results in a total of 87 points scored. That is horrific. If he was a rookie, then maybe you might be able to make a case ... but he isn't. He is a 2nd year player who got half a season under his belt last year. Yeah we changed offenses, but guess what .... so did Dalton and Newton. No one is making excuses for them, because they delivered.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Posts: 8,767
Hall of Famer
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Certainly McCoy struggled this year but I believe with a young, touted prospect you really must wait and see if he struggles with good, quality talent around him before you make a harsh decision.
Too early to jettison him this seaon. I'm beginning to see Richardson as a back that's worth an early pick. Get best WR at 25, FA or drafted right tackle
and see if he picks his game up.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
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Certainly McCoy struggled this year but I believe with a young, touted prospect you really must wait and see if he struggles with good, quality talent around him before you make a harsh decision.
Too early to jettison him this seaon. I'm beginning to see Richardson as a back that's worth an early pick. Get best WR at 25, FA or drafted right tackle
and see if he picks his game up.
If we don't trade down then this is probably the route I would go.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839 Likes: 11
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,839 Likes: 11 |
I really want to keep Colt.. but he cannot make all the throws you need to make in the NFL.. especially outside the numbers..
His out route throws are not that good. Not sure if he waits too late, or if he just cant throw the ball on a line to make the pass.. or Maybe we shouldn't be running 2 yard outs in the first place.. lol..
RG3 or keep Colt..
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Hall of Famer
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I am calling for this team to finally try to properly address the QB position with an elite talent.
And that's why nobody should care what you call for. Elite QB? LOL How many elite QBs are there?
WOW...This is gonna be good the next 4 months...
Y...Rephrase that cause the "Drama Quenn's" takin' it to the bank...
Elite chief is as good as QUALITY...
How many???...WOW...
Brady---Perennial Playoffs
Rothburger---Perennial Playoffs
Manning---Perennial Playoffs---Goes down and Indy falls apart...And have had YEARS to "Build"...
Rivers---Why is Turner still there...
Eli---In it every year
Rogers---Whatever
Stafford---Finally have a D worth even lookin' at
Brees---Nah
Ryan---Nah
Let's keep stickin' with the Likes of a Grossman and "Build" around em'...That'll get us 8-8 YTown...I'm happy with that...
U STILL don't and apparently NEVER will get it...This is not about going after ANY QB...If Luck wasn't in this draft it wouldn't even be spoken about...But the huge difference is that there IS ONE available...And when there is U GO FOR IT...
Go Browns!!!
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part V
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