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I'm not saying any one guy will bust. I'm saying don't pour multiple 1s into a single guy.
I agree don't trade multiple 1s for any guy. But please for the love of God feel free to pour multiple 1s into THE guy.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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A number one is also relative. IF we win 8 games next year ... theoretically of course ... then we would be looking at about the #16 overall.
Would you trade the #4, #27 (or whatever atlanta's is) and the #16 next year to get the number 1 and take luck? I do if I am sure I want to pin my career on him whether that be as a GM, a Coach, or a President.
The question is, how much do you trust your own evaluations?
What if we get hot next year and wind up winning 9 or 10 games and getting to the playoffs? the #4, and two picks in the mid 20's wouldn't be a bad deal in itself, let alone for the guy who could take us to the playoffs and win the division every year for a decade.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Wait, THAT'S your argument? Why, exactly, should we settle for mediocre QB talent?
We have sub-par coaching talent. We have sub-par WR talent. Our starting LBs are pathetic.
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Oh, and the San Francisco argument is weak at best. The reason they went 13-3 is Frank Gore and the best defense in the NFL. And the NFC West is friggin terrible.
The same tools were there last year and SF didn't win that 'terrible' NFC West then. And if they're so terrible, why were there two other teams with better records than the Browns? Sorry to tell you this, but the Browns didn't win a single division game!
If you think that all has to do with a QB, what's St. Louis' excuse for 2 wins? Minnesota (1st round Ponder)? Tampa Bay's 4 wins (1st round Freeman)? How about Jax and their 5 wins (1st round Gabbert)? Carolina's 6 wins (overall #1 Newton)? Oakland's 8 wins (1st rounder Carson Palmer)? San Diego (1st rounder Philip Rivers)? Denver (1st rounder Tim Tebow)? Jets (First rounder Sanchez), Eagles (overall #1 Vick), Cowboys (Romo the choke artist)?
All these very good QBs and only one of them is in the playoffs (Tebow).
Yeah, it all starts with the QB! Whatever. How many have coaches or front office personnel looking for jobs now or expected to lose their jobs? How many have rookie coaches?
Advocates for trading everything to get Luck or even those just advocating sitting and trying to get RG3 keep claiming that it's a passing league and that you need a top-flight QB for that purpose. They simply ignore the other aspect of the passing game, namely the receivers. They also ignore the running game, or lack thereof, for assisting in the passing attack. Then, connecting all those dots, you have poor coaching decisions, including the play selection and having the right personnel on the field.
I put this horrific season squarely on the offensive coaching staff and the front office. In respects to how the defense played, good and bad, I put that onto Jauron and his assistants.
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You are in favor of drafting RGIII, one of the riskiest players in the draft, but you are not in favor of trading for Luck, who is one of the safest players in the draft AND one of the best QB prospects of all time?
That makes sense.
that's the thing.. no QB is a safe pick... NOT ONE!!! stop saying that.
Wasn't Sam Bradford one of the safest picks and one of the best QB prospects of all time? It's working out so well for St. Louis so far.
That's not to say that Bradford can't be a very good QB (and eventually even win a SB), but without any receiving threats and bad coaching, they'll be set in the same rut that we are in with the Browns.
Truth be told, we've had horrible coaching since the return in 1999.
1999-2000: Chris Palmer
2001-2004: Butch Davis (1 playoff appearance - done in by a QB controversy)
2004: Terry Robiskie (interim)
2005-2008: Romeo Crennel
2009-2010: Eric Mangini
2011-TBD: Pat Shurmur
I know that faced with opposing coaches such as these, I'd quiver in my boots!
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I think that there are 2 elite level QBs in this draft.
We pick 4th.
We have an extra 1st rounder if needed to move up.
We should, and I would say must come out of this draft with either Luck or RG3. If not we will go through another year of futility, and last minute "miraculous" drives to add a score to a long lost game.
If we get to 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 .... we won't pick this high again. We have an opportunity to pick a potentially elite guy right now. It's time to make that move and hopefully settle the most important position on the field for the next decade or so.
Or at least until the draft two years out?
So, if we draft Andrew Luck, we're going to win the Super Bowl next year? Make the playoffs next year? Go from 4-12 to 6-10?
Alright then! We should, without a doubt, mortgage the future of the franchise for him and let him languish in Cleveland, supported by poor talent and horrible coaching!
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To me it just comes down to whether Indy will deal AT ALL or not.
Or what the cost will be. If the cost is two #1s this year and next years #1 (which is already too much) and others are saying to add additional picks, at what point do you say that the cost it too great?
I wouldn't give up both of this year's two first round picks. To me, that's too much. I'd consider the 1st and 2nd this year and that's about it. I wouldn't give up two firsts (especially when one of them is #4 overall) for any single player. I don't care who they are.
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A number one is also relative. IF we win 8 games next year ... theoretically of course ... then we would be looking at about the #16 overall.
If... If... If... 
If we mortgage the farm to get Luck, we'll be picking in the top 10 in 2012 (if not the top 5). Hopefully, we will have filled a big hole in the long run, but there will be too many holes left elsewhere to compete next year. Maybe 2013, but 2012 will be another rough one. Given the current state of our roster, you can just about bank on that.
I'm actually OK with that if the FO REALLY feels Luck is eventually going to be as good as advertised, but there will be a whole lot of whining on this board when we only have 4-6 wins again next year. ::shrug::
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Guarantee we visit this with Indy...Prolly to no avail...BUT...
The STARTING POINT will be our 2 First Rounders and our 2013 #1...U can bout BANK that...
If that's the price they ask, then you give them a 'Pffft!' in their faces and walk away giving them a one-fingered salute.
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And Luck is ONE guy. Could he help our team... probably.. but how much is the big question I have.
Add a healthy Peyton Manning to the 2011 Browns as they are currently assembled and we win 9 games. Maybe 10. We probably beat out Cinci for the final wild card spot.
So...yeah. That ONE guy matters a LOT when he's an elite QB.
So, Andrew Luck is now Peyton Manning? 
Let's give the kid 13 years in the NFL first. Coincidentally, Manning won 3 games his rookie season. Troy Aikman won a single game - and he had Michael Irving on that team!
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j/c Blackmon official . . .Not that anyone is surprised . . . MAN, I want that guy in Cleveland. BROWNMON??? 
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MAN, I want that guy in Cleveland. BROWNMON???
No kidding! His attitude is exactly hat this team needs.
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*In Baker we trust*
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Legend
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Our starting LBs are pathetic.
If the Pro Bowl wasn't a popularity contest Jackson would be in it. And Gocong also played pretty well down the stretch. I don't see where you get pathetic out of our linebacking core.
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Wasn't Sam Bradford one of the safest picks and one of the best QB prospects of all time? It's working out so well for St. Louis so far.
Bradford had one of the best rookie seasons every last year. And this year he had no receivers and no blocking and ended up injured.
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Legend
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If the Pro Bowl wasn't a popularity contest Jackson would be in it. And Gocong also played pretty well down the stretch. I don't see where you get pathetic out of our linebacking core.
I agree. We are one OLB away from having a solid LB corps.. Not really confident w/ Gocong against the pass.. but ur LB's will never be good at doing both. I'd prefer he be a better run defender than pass anyday.
Unless it's in the Super Bowl against the Packers.. lol.
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Legend
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I think that there are 2 elite level QBs in this draft.
We pick 4th.
We have an extra 1st rounder if needed to move up.
We should, and I would say must come out of this draft with either Luck or RG3. If not we will go through another year of futility, and last minute "miraculous" drives to add a score to a long lost game.
If we get to 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 .... we won't pick this high again. We have an opportunity to pick a potentially elite uy right now. It's time to make that move and hopefully settle the most important position on the field for the next decade or so.
Or at least until the draft two years out?
So, if we draft Andrew Luck, we're going to win the Super Bowl next year? Make the playoffs next year? Go from 4-12 to 6-10?
Alright then! We should, without a doubt, mortgage the future of the franchise for him and let him languish in Cleveland, supported by poor talent and horrible coaching!
So, if we draft 2 other players in the first round we're going to win the Super Bowl next year? Make the playoffs? Go from 46 to 6-10?
That's an asinine argument.
We may slip some with a rookie QB. Who knows? That's not the point. The point is to get a guy with elite abilities who can become that eÍite QB.
Let me ask you a question. Do you see McCoy becoming an elite QB, under any circumstances? Do you see him becoming that guy who can take spare parts WRs and 2nd hand OL and still leading his team to victories, and the playoffs? Do you ever see him becoming a guy who can load his team on his back and carry them, if necessary?
I don't. I don't see a guy who can win the AFCN. I don't see a guy who can go over .500 in the AFCN if the team is built around him and his passing ability.
If we draft a guy with elite potential, then we might well have a guy who can do these things. The guy who can make the huge play under immense pressure. We might have the guy who can lead the team with his superior play on the field. We might have the guy who makes every other player better.
To me that's a chance worth taking. I don't see us going anywhere with McCoy at the helm.
I look back over this year and we produced the 2nd fewest points of any Browns team since 1978. That includes the expansion team. We also scored 3 or 4 last minute TDs in games where were were down 2 or more scores, where McCoy had been ineffective the entire game, and managed a last minute drive when the defense was more concerned with killing clock than stopping the browns offense. I saw this QB put up ridiculously horrible numbers until the defense started playing prevent, and leaving the underneath stuff open. I watched this QB throw a 5 yard pass in a game with seconds left, and us down by 7 or less. In short, I watched a lot of really poor QB play. I mean A LOT. People whine about drops, but if it wasn't for defenses trading time for points at the end of games, McCoy's stats would be about 3/4 what they wound up. Even if you give him his average play and credit him with a completion in place of every drop, he still played poorly. McCoy was saved the "opportunity" to play in the wind in the final game. I look back to last year, when McCoy showed some promise, and check out his final 2 games, in December and January, against Pittsburgh and Baltimore. They were abysmal.
McCoy, in fact, has been terrible against Pittsburgh and Baltimore overall.
The Baltimore game last year was "blustery" ...... but not horrible conditions. There weren't 40-40 MPH winds. McCoy has yet to play in the really fun winter wonderland that can take place on the lakefront. I do not think that he will get better when throwing into a 40MPH wind.
Anyway ..... I think that yes, a great QB will improve this team more than 2 other equally great players at different position would. I think that it is worth the risk to try and get one of the 2 potentially great QBs I see in this draft. I think that one of those 2 potentially great QBs could turn into a QB that could rival the Roethlisbergers and Bradys of the league. I would take a chance on that any time. I believe that it is that important to try and find that kind of QB.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I personally don't think Colt McCoy will.. but I mean u never know. He was very successful in college, won a lot of games, and it could at some point "click" and he become a star.
A lot of people who are not Browns fans tell me all the time that Colt would be a star if he weren't in this division. THey could be right.. could be wrong.. Guess we'll see..
There are some things he definitely needs to work on.. Pocket presence, throwing outside the numbers, and running while keeping his eyes up and scanning the field. If he can do that.. he will have no problems in this league..
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Slip another struggling rookie at QB and he just becomes Version number whatever
of the "Get this SOB out of town" Cleveland fan battle cry! Dont let anybody develop and all the while screaming about lack of continuity! I dont know if colt has it or not but to toss a touted prospect out the window without seeing what he does with actual NFL talent is insane! What I do know is...
Nobody makes this fanbase happy!
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Legend
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MAN, I want that guy in Cleveland. BROWNMON???
No kidding! His attitude is exactly what this team needs.
Imagine him on one side, Little on the other. We'd be bloodying some noses with those two.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Imagine him on one side, Little on the other. We'd be bloodying some noses with those two.
It would be a sight to see.. They are both pretty intimidating on the field. Little needs a little more work though. He's not quite the player Blackmon is, which is obvious though.
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1st String
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What was the name of that other QB everyone wanted like 2 weeks ago? Oh wait, it was Matt Barkley. I am pretty sure he will be in the draft next year. So why don't we use our picks this year to build the team, give Colt (or other placeholder) a year to see what clicks or doesn't, and if we still suck move up (or just take) and get Barkley? People here are acting as though we have to take a gamble with RGIII as if no other QB will ever be in the draft again.
1) We are not getting Luck
2) Fill other needs this year and look forward to Barkley in 2013 if Colt can't figure the WCO out in year 2.
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Legend
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MAN, I want that guy in Cleveland. BROWNMON???
No kidding! His attitude is exactly what this team needs.
Imagine him on one side, Little on the other. We'd be bloodying some noses with those two.
It would be, though we would have to wait until we found a QB who could hit them in stride and not throw high over the middle leading them in to concussions.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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What was the name of that other QB everyone wanted like 2 weeks ago? Oh wait, it was Matt Barkley. I am pretty sure he will be in the draft next year. So why don't we use our picks this year to build the team, give Colt (or other placeholder) a year to see what clicks or doesn't, and if we still suck move up (or just take) and get Barkley? People here are acting as though we have to take a gamble with RGIII as if no other QB will ever be in the draft again.
1) We are not getting Luck
2) Fill other needs this year and look forward to Barkley in 2013 if Colt can't figure the WCO out in year 2.
HTF do you think we "move up or just take" Barkley next year? His asking price is going to be out of this world, we aren't going to have 2 first round picks to deal, and heaven help us we aren't going to have the first pick in the draft.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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1st String
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1st String
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HTF do you think we "move up or just take" Barkley next year? His asking price is going to be out of this world, we aren't going to have 2 first round picks to deal, and heaven help us we aren't going to have the first pick in the draft.
The same way everyone thinks we should move up to get Luck or RGIII (a gamble at best) this year.
If Colt is really that bad, then we will be drafting top 5-7 again next year and can package up a few future picks to get Barkley if we need to. No reason to gamble with RGIII this year when we have so many other needs.
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First thing I do when FA opens is sign Matt Flynn!!! Then if we don't re-sign Hillis for less than he turned down (3 yrs for $13 mil) we sign Snelling or Tolbert. And maybe a Joe Staley to play RT. Would love to add John Abraham for 2 yr deal.
Draft
1A Justin Blackmon
1B Kendall Wright or Alshon Jeffrey prefer Wright
2 Chase Minnifield
3 LaMichael James
Then with the rest of our picks we pick all D. H & H said they wanted playmakers here is a few to help turn this around.
1 Blackmon
2 Little
Slot Wright
4 Cribbs
5 Norwood
6 MoMass
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Legend
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What was the name of that other QB everyone wanted like 2 weeks ago? Oh wait, it was Matt Barkley. I am pretty sure he will be in the draft next year. So why don't we use our picks this year to build the team, give Colt (or other placeholder) a year to see what clicks or doesn't, and if we still suck move up (or just take) and get Barkley? People here are acting as though we have to take a gamble with RGIII as if no other QB will ever be in the draft again.
1) We are not getting Luck
2) Fill other needs this year and look forward to Barkley in 2013 if Colt can't figure the WCO out in year 2.
HTF do you think we "move up or just take" Barkley next year? His asking price is going to be out of this world, we aren't going to have 2 first round picks to deal, and heaven help us we aren't going to have the first pick in the draft.
We do what I said a couple months ago, trade the Falcons pick with somebody for their first next year and a 2nd or 3rd this year (I do not know what exactly is fair compensation for that spot but it would have to include their first next year)... that way we can add a first round WR this year, a second round RT and hopefully some FAs this year and see how we do.. if we are still a 4-6 win team, we have a top 10 pick next year plus the first rounder we get in trade for the Falcons pick this year, (we are basically in the same position we are in now) we package them and move up to take a QB... it's hedging our bets and deferring the QB decision until next year... if we are going to stick with Colt, then I would definitely try to work it that way.
yebat' Putin
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If the Pro Bowl wasn't a popularity contest Jackson would be in it.Quote:
I don't mind D'Qwell, but I wasn't talking specifically about him. I'm referring to Fujita & Gocong. Slower than molasses in January.
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And Gocong also played pretty well down the stretch. I don't see where you get pathetic out of our linebacking core.
Gocong had a couple of good plays down the stretch. Where was he the rest of the season?
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Bradford had one of the best rookie seasons every last year. And this year he had no receivers and no blocking and ended up injured.
And he's done squat. McCoy has receivers, right side blocking and was healthy all season long? McCoy was also a third round pick that was supposed to be tutored while Delhomme started and Wallace served as the backup. He was thrust into the starting role due to high ankle sprains to both. He did well enough to earn the starting job and putting together off-season 'Camp Colt' sessions during the labor dispute.
I'd still look to bring in Flynn if the contract demands were reasonable because he actually was tutored by THE BEST QB in the league for a while and showed ability against a team (Detroit) with something to play for.
Yeah, within reason, I'd try to sign Flynn.
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So, if we draft 2 other players in the first round we're going to win the Super Bowl next year? Make the playoffs? Go from 46 to 6-10?
I'm not saying that, but I'm more certain that if we went that route, we'd be a better team (next year) and would be much better in the long run.
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That's an asinine argument.
That is an imbecilic argument.
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We may slip some with a rookie QB. Who knows? That's not the point. The point is to get a guy with elite abilities who can become that elite QB.
Or we can get two (or more) players with at other positions that can become elite NFL players at those positions.
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Let me ask you a question. Do you see McCoy becoming an elite QB, under any circumstances?
No, but I don't necessarily see Andrew Luck being that elite QB under any circumstance while on the Cleveland Browns.
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Do you see him becoming that guy who can take spare parts WRs and 2nd hand OL and still leading his team to victories, and the playoffs?
See above.
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Do you ever see him becoming a guy who can load his team on his back and carry them, if necessary?
I've seen him do that this season. He did it against Miami. He did it against Jacksonville. Two of our 4 victories this year.
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I don't. I don't see a guy who can win the AFCN.
And you see Luck doing that with the current team? I don't either.
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I don't see a guy who can go over .500 in the AFCN if the team is built around him and his passing ability.
Okay. I don't agree, but if the playcalling remained the same as this year, no QB would be succeeding in that scheme with the talent on this team.
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If we draft a guy with elite potential, then we might well have a guy who can do these things. The guy who can make the huge play under immense pressure. We might have the guy who can lead the team with his superior play on the field. We might have the guy who makes every other player better.
So, you're talking about elite 'potential' all of a sudden. We might very well do that by providing an elite weapon on offense not at the QB position. We might bring in a FA with elite capabilities. We might land on the moon next week.
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To me that's a chance worth taking. I don't see us going anywhere with McCoy at the helm.
I don't see the Browns going anywhere if they mortgage the future for a single player, at any position.
Frankly, I'm done with the QB conversation about giving up the farm for Andrew Luck. Might as well believe Merlin the Magician can fly unicorns into Cleveland.
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All Pro
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You and I are on the same page bro. I was thinking right along the same lines. That's the type of draft that people will remember. I'm hoping the front office thinks the same.
The only thing I may do differant in the draft is to use our second pick on defense as well. Not a fan of picking two players at the same positions in the first.
Last edited by MyDawgsBite; 01/03/12 03:05 PM.
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Wasn't Sam Bradford one of the safest picks and one of the best QB prospects of all time? It's working out so well for St. Louis so far.
No. He was the de-facto #1 pick because there wasn't another elite QB talent in that draft. Plenty of people had a lot of question marks with Bradford, starting with his durability and that he was a spread QB with inflated stats from Oklahoma (not too unlike Colt at Texas). I, for one, never liked him....and still don't. It's why I hoped to God StL didn't get the #1 pick and take Luck and try to dump Bradford off on us. Thankfully that didn't happen.
Luck >>> Bradford.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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So, if we draft Andrew Luck, we're going to win the Super Bowl next year?
No.
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Make the playoffs next year?
Probably not but you never know we could sneak in as a wildcard.
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Go from 4-12 to 6-10?
Even without knowing FA or our other draft picks my guess would be anywhere from 6-9 wins depending on schedule, injuries and a little "luck"  .
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Alright then! We should, without a doubt, mortgage the future of the franchise for him and let him languish in Cleveland, supported by poor talent and horrible coaching!
Nobody wants to mortgage anything. We're saying it's going to be expensive to go get him, but if he's half as good as he can be...in the long run it will be worth it to have a top 5-10 "elite" level NFL QB running our WCO regardless of the talent around him. Plus, we will STILL have draft picks this year and next year AND free agency both years. It's not as if we trade up for Luck and bam....no more moves for us for the next 3 years. C'mon.....we can still get him some pieces.
No team in the NFL ever has 0 holes. Look at Pittsburgh's OLine and Green Bay's DB's etc. Shoot, look at New England's entire defense. The common denominator in all 3 of those places though is they have that "elite" QB who wins IN SPITE OF the talent around him, not BECAUSE OF the talent around him. They turn average NFL talent into pro-bowlers. We get Luck and upgrade some of the talent positions around him...we'll be more than happy with the results.
FWIW I agree with you on our coaches though.
Last edited by GraffZ06; 01/03/12 04:35 PM.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Wasn't Sam Bradford one of the safest picks and one of the best QB prospects of all time? It's working out so well for St. Louis so far.
No. He was the de-facto #1 pick because there wasn't another elite QB talent in that draft. Plenty of people had a lot of question marks with Bradford, starting with his durability and that he was a spread QB with inflated stats from Oklahoma (not too unlike Colt at Texas). I, for one, never liked him....and still don't. It's why I hoped to God StL didn't get the #1 pick and take Luck and try to dump Bradford off on us. Thankfully that didn't happen.
Luck >>> Bradford.
I disagree wholeheartedly, well except that Luck is better than Bradford.
Bradford was and still is an incredible QB prospect, but that team in St. Louis is literally killing him. The offensive line is probably the worst in the NFL, the coaching staff is going to get cleaned out, and their best weapon was acquired half way through the season.
Bradford will still be a great QB in this league. I don't think he'll ever be the prospect that Luck/Manning were, but he'll be damn close. He can make every throw on the field and can read the field very well. It's too bad that St. Louis hasn't been able to draft very well for him.
you had a good run Hank.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
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It would be, though we would have to wait until we found a QB who could hit them in stride and not throw high over the middle leading them in to concussions.
I never thought of it that way, but boy isn't that the truth. How pissed will we be if we draft Blackmon at #4 and he misses half the year with a concussion thanks to Colt Frye? Yikes.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
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The offensive line is probably the worst in the NFL
to be fair, the Rams did lose both their starting OTs to injury this season and Jason Brown (starting OC) sprained his knee and was benched for awhile after he struggled when he returned (maybe due to injury - hard to say)
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
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If we mortgage the farm to get Luck, we'll be picking in the top 10 in 2012 (if not the top 5).
Completely disagree. We'll be outside the top 10 at least (6 wins) and possibly even late teens to early 20s (8-9 wins).
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Hopefully, we will have filled a big hole in the long run, but there will be too many holes left elsewhere to compete next year. Maybe 2013, but 2012 will be another rough one. Given the current state of our roster, you can just about bank on that.
I guess that depends on your definition of "compete". If you mean for a Super Bowl then yeah. If you mean to go 500 or better, no.
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Mar 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
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Or what the cost will be. If the cost is two #1s this year and next years #1 (which is already too much) and others are saying to add additional picks, at what point do you say that the cost it too great?
I wouldn't give up both of this year's two first round picks. To me, that's too much. I'd consider the 1st and 2nd this year and that's about it. I wouldn't give up two firsts (especially when one of them is #4 overall) for any single player. I don't care who they are.
And I'd say you're crazy. I give up WAY more than that if I'm getting Joe Montana or John Elway or Peyton Manning or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers. If Luck is truly a top 5 talent NFL QB like those guys then he's more than worth it.
And like I stated in another thread I'd offer our 2 1st's this year + a mid rounder (4th ish) to start but that won't get it done. I'd add in our 1st next year (3 1sts total) and another mid rounder next (3rd or 4th). If they wanted a 3rd #1 I'd remove this year's mid-rounder and move next year's mid rounder to later (5th or 6th round). If they wanted a FOURTH #1 pick...that's where I might have to think about drawing the line.
So here's my "max" scenarios:
1) 2012 Rd 1A, 2012 Rd 1B, 2012 Rd 4, 2013 Rd 1, 2013 Rd 3
2) 2012 Rd 1A, 2012 Rd 1B, 2013 Rd 1, 2013 Rd 6, 2014 Rd 1
Both scenarios, while definitely expensive, still give us the ability to add some starting level talent with draft picks in the top 4 rounds in each of the next 3 drafts.
The problem is, my gut tells me Indy looks at both of those offers and still says "no" because they know how good Luck is too.
And then we're back to hoping Blackmon falls to us and that Colt doesn't get him killed.... 
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
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So, Andrew Luck is now Peyton Manning?
Let's give the kid 13 years in the NFL first. Coincidentally, Manning won 3 games his rookie season. Troy Aikman won a single game - and he had Michael Irving on that team!
No draft pick is ever 100% obviously. But, in terms of prospects, yes he IS Peyton Manning...if not better.
Here's a fun fact, you don't get to watch a guy play in the NFL for 13 years before you decide if he's worth the risk or not.
If you aren't willing to take the "gamble" with Luck, you never will be. You might as well just forget ever thinking about drafting a 1st round QB b/c they're all too risky. Let's just roll with backups for the rest of eternity and "hope" a Tom Brady falls into our laps some time in the next 50 years. It's worked well for us the last 10 years
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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If you are comparing them as prospects only, he also "is" Ryan Leaf... just as much as Peyton Manning
The cost will be 4+ first round picks, and I hope we don't pay it
~Lyuokdea
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,459 Likes: 32 |
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(we are basically in the same position we are in now) we package them and move up to take a QB... it's hedging our bets and deferring the QB decision until next year... if we are going to stick with Colt, then I would definitely try to work it that way.
I completely agree that we don't need to reach for RG3, but only b/c I seriously doubt he'll be an elite NFL QB.
Why do we need to "hedge our bets and defer the QB decision until next year" though?
For one, if we wait until next year then there is no Luck in next years QB class. He's a once a decade type talent. Barkley was my #2 this year for sure...and he'd be an ok consolation prize next year but he's no Andrew Luck.
Second, we already know what we have in Colt...and it's not good. We don't NEED another year just to "be sure". He has 21 career starts over 2 seasons already for crying out loud. That's more time than A LOT of QBs get in this league.
We may get another year of Colt whether we want it or not though unfortunately...
Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,003 Likes: 370 |
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The offensive line is probably the worst in the NFL
to be fair, the Rams did lose both their starting OTs to injury this season and Jason Brown (starting OC) sprained his knee and was benched for awhile after he struggled when he returned (maybe due to injury - hard to say)
And they lost their #1, #2, and #3 wide receivers to IR. I think that were on their 4th or 5th QB when the season ended.
I think that had like 15 or 16 players on IR.
Jacksonville literally had half a roster on their IR. I think they had something like 24 players on IR. 
We had 11.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,196 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,196 Likes: 136 |
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A number one is also relative. IF we win 8 games next year ... theoretically of course ... then we would be looking at about the #16 overall.
Would you trade the #4, #27 (or whatever atlanta's is) and the #16 next year to get the number 1 and take luck? I do if I am sure I want to pin my career on him whether that be as a GM, a Coach, or a President.
The question is, how much do you trust your own evaluations?
What if we get hot next year and wind up winning 9 or 10 games and getting to the playoffs? the #4, and two picks in the mid 20's wouldn't be a bad deal in itself, let alone for the guy who could take us to the playoffs and win the division every year for a decade.
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The problem with pinning your career on one guy is injuries. All it takes is one good james harrison hit and the lights go out.. So you lose the guy and the picks and maybe your job.
Pinning every hope and dream on one guy seems rather risky to me. actually, it seems WAY too risky to me.
If all you had to do was use the pick you have (say if Luck drops to you at 4)then all you risk is that pick.. that's it. But using a couple of 1's this year and another one next year and probably some others to boot, you could kill your teams chances to improve for years to come.
Haven't we already proven that with the whole brady quinn thing.. Give up picks this year and next years number one, then trade away your 2nd rounder for another guy and your third rounder for yet another guy and 4 years later, none of them are here and weren't good while they were. (exception was rogers,, he played well when he played)
that left us with our first pick being in Rd 4 and we get a guy that's out of the league today,,,,
we are behiind because of those two drafts more than any previous or since..
No, it's not JUST about trusting your evaluations. It's way more than that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Atlanta and Draft Order Part V
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