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Excuses excuses excuses  Seriously, I get what you are saying, but no matter what, there are some folks that don't care about any of that. He didn't win games this year and it's all his fault... period..
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Damanshot
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Excuses excuses excuses
Seriously, I get what you are saying, but no matter what, there are some folks that don't care about any of that. He didn't win games this year and it's all his fault... period..
Yup - all we hear is "colt regressed, and he sucks". We don't hear about the "no running game".......we don't hear about the "best receiver was a college qb turned special teams ace turned wanna be receiver" (and that's not knocking Cribbs at all), we don't hear about the brand new system with no off season - we don't hear about the 9 year vet of that system that couldn't do anything in his 3 starts, we don't hear about other starting players out due to concussion (wait - we DO hear about them - but only because the concussions were all Colt's fault), we don't hear about suspect play calling.
Nope - it's all the 3rd round qb's fault. And all we need to do is sell the next 2 drafts down the river to get a proven perennial all pro qb - a can't miss qb - and everything will be fine. Unless that qb ends up like all the other first round busts at qb in the nfl.
Well, that and - there is little consensus (I should say was) on who's number one. Luck or Barkely......oh, Barkley is out, so it's Luck or RG - sell the farm to get them, then everything will be fine.
Hey....................what if we used our picks this year to get better as a team? Maybe even get a free agent qb? Things don't work out, we draft Barkely next year? Or whoever else the cream of the qb class is next year. Imagine that.
Every single year there is a "golden child" at qb. And some want to throw 2 drafts away to get a "might be"?
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"what if we used our picks this year to get better as a team"
I'm all for that as well.. Unfortunately it ain't worked out so well has it ? We been using picks everywhere else but a High QB spot for how long ?
If you think the QB sitting at your spot is a FRANCHISE QB and you don't have one... you TAKE him. Period. If you miss, you take another shot when you get a chance. Our top 4-7 pick selections may soon run out and the premier prospects won't be reachable.
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"what if we used our picks this year to get better as a team"
I'm all for that as well.. Unfortunately it ain't worked out so well has it ? We been using picks everywhere else but a High QB spot for how long ?
If you think the QB sitting at your spot is a FRANCHISE QB and you don't have one... you TAKE him. Period. If you miss, you take another shot when you get a chance. Our top 4-7 pick selections may soon run out and the premier prospects won't be reachable.
And I've said many times, if Luck or RG is sitting there when we draft, pick them. I really have said that. I really believe that.
I would absolutely hate, though, to trade 3 first round picks, plus our second round pick - to get ANYONE. This team has too many needs.
Take a look at what Ytown has been saying. He's touting carolina's "turnaround" as all because of newton. Wow, they went from 2-14 to 6-10. When confronted with that fact (and I don't give a rip how many points they scored - it matters not. Winning is what matters), he changes tune and says "well, look at all the injuries Carolina had..."
Big whoop. Cleveland had injuries as well. We finished 4-12. We still have 2 draft picks in the first round this year, plus next years first rounder.
They say "trade everything" for Luck...........why? So we can win another 2 or 3 games next year?
Stupid thinking as far as I'm concerned.
Let's face it - next year at this time there will be another 2 or 3 "can't miss" qb's in the draft. Why sell out 2 years of drafts for a "might be"? I wouldn't do it this year, I wouldn't do it next year, or in 10 years.
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the real question in this thread though is do you risk RGIII being there at #4, do you trade up for him, or do you go out and get Flynn so you don't have to worry about RGIII in the draft?
of the options, I prefer the Flynn route even though it increases the odds that RGIII drops to us (1 less team talking to StL/Minn, which decreases the odds they trade out of their slot)
#gmstrong
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the real question in this thread though is do you risk RGIII being there at #4, do you trade up for him, or do you go out and get Flynn so you don't have to worry about RGIII in the draft?
of the options, I prefer the Flynn route even though it increases the odds that RGIII drops to us (1 less team talking to StL/Minn, which decreases the odds they trade out of their slot)
I don't know.
I do know, as long as it doesn't involve trading 2 first round picks this year, a second round this year, and next years first - as long as it doesn't involve that - I don't care. (well, as long as it doesn't involve 3 first round picks, period. Not even 2 first round picks)
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And I've said many times, if Luck or RG is sitting there when we draft, pick them. I really have said that. I really believe that.
Horsecrap. Horse. Crap. The only time you've said anything about hoping Andrew Luck falls to us in the draft has been immediately followed with comments about the reason you want it to happen is so you can gloat when he starts out 1-7 or 1-8 or 1-9.
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Take a look at what Ytown has been saying. He's touting carolina's "turnaround" as all because of newton. Wow, they went from 2-14 to 6-10. When confronted with that fact (and I don't give a rip how many points they scored - it matters not. Winning is what matters), he changes tune and says "well, look at all the injuries Carolina had..."
Cam Newton is pretty much solely responsible for Carolina's offensive turnaround. He doesn't play defense, and their defense sucked as badly this year as it did last year.
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while you dont post the meat of his post which is as long as dont trade away this years draft and part of next years hes ok with it and on that I agree. Not sure his stand on who he thinks is the best or bust just agree with I dont want us to trade up and give up the farm to do so from the 4 hole. If one of them falls to us and it could be that both do then great grab the one you like and go forward building the team. I have nothing against either guy but I personally would hate to see us give up anything to move up. Heck if they are both there and I could trade down a few spots and still grab the other I would be all over that. Let some team give up the farm to us and we get the other guy. Right now Minnesota looks like they are in the best position to catch a trade which always stinks. We needed to bluff hard that McCoy is our guy and Shurmur ruined that. He probably didnt want to spend the next 3 months hearing about it though. 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Just clicking
Some food for thought:
In the last 15 years, how many top 10 selections (at QB) have worked out?
If you go back further, you'll hear that the game changed.. so just stick with 15 years..
There were 2 guys that were out of the top 10 but still first rounders that won superbowls (big ben 11th pick and Rogers 24th pick) flacco has done well I guess but he was the 18th pick.
From memory, I'm going with Manning, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Stafford, Palmer,
I don't know yet how to judge Newton or Bradford, but time will tell.
6 QB's taken in the top ten of any draft in the last 15 years have worked out to one degree or the other. And to my knowledge, none of the teams that drafted them gave up a boat load of anything to get them. (with the possible exception of the Ely Manning trade deal) but even that didn't include a boat load players or picks if memory serves me. And Manning forced that one. He was never going to sign with SD..
6 QB's in 15 years picked in the top ten. (granted, I'm pretty sure I missed at least 1 maybe 2 guys) And only two Superbowl wins among them. Vick, stafford, Palmer and Rivers haven't even been to the big dance. Stafford hasn't even gotten into the Playoffs and I'm not sure if Vick has either. Palmer has.
Take it for what it's worth, but it sure sounds as if the risk of trading away several high picks to move up to get a guy just isn't worth the reward..
I mean the numbers just don't add up.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Daman, You have such a calming Analytical approach to things without forcing it down someones throat and telling them they are wrong.  Kudos to you.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Daman, You have such a calming Analytical approach to things without forcing it down someones throat and telling them they are wrong. Kudos to you.
According to some, that's just not a true statment, but I thank you for your kind words.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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In the last 15 years, how many top 10 selections (at QB) have worked out?
I do believe you missed QBs in that list if you want to go back 15 years, but I will make this even simpler.
QBs drafted in the top10 have a much greater chance for success than QBs drafted outside the top10.
QBs drafted in the 1st round have a much greater chance for success than QBs outside round1.
What makes it even more compelling is that last year we broke down QBs in round2/3, etc. and found that the ratio of success in any other round did not follow the expected suit. Basically, once you got past round1, the success rate was all over the place in each round (but always below round1).
#gmstrong
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while you dont post the meat of his post which is as long as dont trade away this years draft and part of next years hes ok with it and on that I agree.
Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm being too critical. Maybe Arch would love for us to have Andrew Luck, as long as we don't have to trade up for him.
Something tells me, though, that comments like "God forbid we draft him" and "I hope some team offers 2 or 3 firsts and he end up being terrible" indicate otherwise.
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Mentally they aren't.
I'd just add to what D'nD said, Flynn has been on that team and in that system since 2008. That's 4 preseasons and 4 seasons within the same scheme and no pressure on him in the least.
Colt has yet to have a preseason and has been in two different offenses with two different coaching staffs.
So yeah, mentally they aren't equal in this offense.
#gmstrong
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Toad...thank you for admitting, I did not say "break the bank"...those were your words, not mine.
I said, " ...IF the Browns want to upgrade the QB position, opening the vault for Flynn would be a good move."
mac FTW!
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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And I've said many times, if Luck or RG is sitting there when we draft, pick them. I really have said that. I really believe that.
Horsecrap. Horse. Crap. The only time you've said anything about hoping Andrew Luck falls to us in the draft has been immediately followed with comments about the reason you want it to happen is so you can gloat when he starts out 1-7 or 1-8 or 1-9.
Dude, you either have reading comprehension issues, or you want to try to attempt to make me look bad, or you're stupid. I'm not sure which.
What I HAVE said, and categorically stand behind is this: I hope we do NOT trade 3 first round picks for ANYONE. This draft or any other. That is a fact. Look it up.
What I HAVE said is if Luck or RG are available when we draft, or even if we have to trade our first pick and second pick, take them (luck or rg).
I have also stated, numerous times, if it takes 3 first rounders, plus a second - don't do it. Ain't NO player worth that.
Now, go back and re-read. If you can refute what I just said I stated, show me. If you can't refute that, apologize. Otherwise, can it.
Either way, you can apologize to me on here, or in pm. Or, you can ignore this - but don't go putting words in my mouth.
I have unequivocally stated don't trade three first rounders PLUS, for anyone.
I have unequivocally stated if we can make a fair trade, take Luck or RG (fair trade to me being our first plus a second).
I have also unequivocally stated IF we trade 3 first rounders, plus a second - to draft a "might be" we would be stupid.
I'm not sure where you got the "so you can gloat when he goes 1-7, or 1-8, or 1-9" thing.
I don't believe I said that.
Edit to say: Contrary to what some think, I'm a stand up guy. I admit when I'm wrong, and I have no qualms about admitting it. I don't see that as a negative. If you can show me where I said exactly what you said I said (confused yet?) please do.
Last edited by archbolddawg; 01/04/12 08:03 PM.
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while you dont post the meat of his post which is as long as dont trade away this years draft and part of next years hes ok with it and on that I agree.
Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm being too critical. Maybe Arch would love for us to have Andrew Luck, as long as we don't have to trade up for him.
Something tells me, though, that comments like "God forbid we draft him" and "I hope some team offers 2 or 3 firsts and he end up being terrible" indicate otherwise.
Damn right "God forbid we draft him"............IF we have to give up 3 firsts, a second etc. If you can't understand that, it's not my problem.
As for this statement from you, attributed to me: ""I hope some team offers 2 or 3 firsts and he end up being terrible" indicate otherwise.".........................................................................................I'm not sure I ever said that. If I did, can you post it for me? I'm sure I'd be able to explain. Thanks.
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Quote:
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In the last 15 years, how many top 10 selections (at QB) have worked out?
I do believe you missed QBs in that list if you want to go back 15 years, but I will make this even simpler.
QBs drafted in the top10 have a much greater chance for success than QBs drafted outside the top10.
QBs drafted in the 1st round have a much greater chance for success than QBs outside round1.
What makes it even more compelling is that last year we broke down QBs in round2/3, etc. and found that the ratio of success in any other round did not follow the expected suit. Basically, once you got past round1, the success rate was all over the place in each round (but always below round1).
First of all, I think I said that I probably missed a few.. I didn't go back and look at anything, that was strickly from memory..
Secondly, you can say that QB's selected in the top ten have a greater chance of success but that don't make it so.
Thirdly, you can say that QB's selected in the first round have a greater chance of success.. again, that doesn't make it so but then, that's not what i said is it?
You go do the research and show me...there is only a few criteria you need to stick too... 15 year look back, not one year further.... Successful by most anyones standards.. that means a winning record and they must have been drafted in the TOP Ten NOT Top 11 or 12 or anthing more than TOP 10.
But before you get started,, Remember something.. 8 of the last 15 Superbowls were won by a team with a QB not drafted in the Top ten.
Remember something else,, Several of the QB's that played in a Superbowl were drafted in the later rounds.
One other thing,, There were a TON More QB's drafted outside of the TOP ten.. so the odds are automatically in my favor....
Like I said, the numbers don't add up.
But the REAL point of this little unscientific exercise was to point out the foley in trading a bunch of picks to get a guy that you want in the 1, 2 or three draft position.
Odds just aren't in your favor...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Hey, like I said, if you secretly want Andrew Luck, then I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, my bad, I apologize.
That said, you've never, EVER, posted anything any closer to saying you want the Browns to draft him than "If there's a QB there, take him" and "I'd be fine with it". You are correct, you have unequivocally stated ad nauseam that you don't want the Browns to trade up to draft him. You have also suggested that if they do you will be amused to tell everyone "told ya so" as you watch him fail, which you make out to be a foregone conclusion. Its all there in your posting history.
Again, like I said above, if you'd be ecstatic that we draft Andrew Luck without having to give anything up (or, apparently you are okay with giving up 2 picks, but not 3), then I've misunderstood your vitriol towards the kid, and I'm wrong.
Demanding a written apology? Funny. And you can, to use your words, "can it" with the insults, though I'm reminded in my brief perusal of your posting history that you sure are fond of calling other posters stupid.
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As for this statement from you, attributed to me: ""I hope some team offers 2 or 3 firsts and he end up being terrible" indicate otherwise.".........................................................................................I'm not sure I ever said that. If I did, can you post it for me? I'm sure I'd be able to explain. Thanks.
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I'm so sick of this "Luck" thing. I hope he gets drafted, some team (not the Browns) sell out for him - offering 2 or 3 first round picks, a couple of seconds, etc - and he ends up being terrible.
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Remember something.. 8 of the last 15 Superbowls were won by a team with a QB not drafted in the Top ten.
And 4 of those 8 were won with a quarterback drafted between picks 11 and 33.
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Remember something.. 8 of the last 15 Superbowls were won by a team with a QB not drafted in the Top ten.
And 4 of those 8 were won with a quarterback drafted between picks 11 and 33.
I Don't Care,, we weren't talking about trading picks for a guy we could get below 10., we were talking about trading picks to move up to get Luck or RG3..
#GMSTRONG
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j/c....I am more than ok with going after Flynn if we get Blackmon in the draft, and still go after a DeSean Jackson via FA. Resign Hillis, and draft LaMichael James as a change of pace back to spell Hillis.
#brownsgoodkarma
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As for this statement from you, attributed to me: ""I hope some team offers 2 or 3 firsts and he end up being terrible" indicate otherwise.".........................................................................................I'm not sure I ever said that. If I did, can you post it for me? I'm sure I'd be able to explain. Thanks.
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I'm so sick of this "Luck" thing. I hope he gets drafted, some team (not the Browns) sell out for him - offering 2 or 3 first round picks, a couple of seconds, etc - and he ends up being terrible.
Got me. Quoted it all so I can reference it. Gotta go be a dad. Hope to be back on tonight yet. Could you do me a favor and quote my whole post that include that quote? Thanks.......you have it handy as you quoted a part of it.
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I Don't Care,, we weren't talking about trading picks for a guy we could get below 10., we were talking about trading picks to move up to get Luck or RG3..
And I don't really care what you're talking about, either. I'm merely pointing out that 9 of the past 15 Super Bowls, including the last 6, have been won by a QB drafted in the top 33 picks. And considering that 3 of the other 6 were won by the same guy, I'm going to state that a QB drafted in the first round is more likely to lead his team to a Super Bowl victory than one drafted later. That's all...carry on.
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Didn't have it handy, but that search function, she sure is useful. Quote:
j/c
I'm so sick of this "Luck" thing. I hope he gets drafted, some team (not the Browns) sell out for him - offering 2 or 3 first round picks, a couple of seconds, etc - and he ends up being terrible.
Or, from a spite point of view - I hope he comes here! The "saviour" in Brown and orange. Give him 12 starts, and if we aren't 10-2, well, these same people will do one of 2 things: 1 - they'll start clamoring for the next "sure thing", the next "prototypical qb that has everything", OR, they'll say "give him time".
Meanwhile, I'd be using all the picks to shore up our O line, add a linebacker or 2, etc. You know - build a TEAM?
Keep in mind, our leader on the O line is in his 5th year? (drafted in 07 - so he played 07, 08, 09, 10, and now 11 - right?) Our right side of the line is nothing.
Our d needs work.
But somehow having this unproven (as a pro) qb will solve all the problems?
Okay. 
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I Don't Care,, we weren't talking about trading picks for a guy we could get below 10., we were talking about trading picks to move up to get Luck or RG3..
And I don't really care what you're talking about, either. I'm merely pointing out that 9 of the past 15 Super Bowls, including the last 6, have been won by a QB drafted in the top 33 picks. And considering that 3 of the other 6 were won by the same guy, I'm going to state that a QB drafted in the first round is more likely to lead his team to a Super Bowl victory than one drafted later. That's all...carry on.
How Many Super Bowls did Tom Brady and Kurt Warner win?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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4. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won SBs as well.
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Which of course proves drafting 1st round QBs is dumb... We should trade for every 6th round pick and draft every QB available...
...Then after the draft, we'll stop at Aldi's, and grab a few Cashiers, and maybe a Stockboy to be safe...
Then we'll have our Super Bowl winning QB...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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4. Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer won SBs as well.
We can do this all day..lol Brees, Gannon(i think), Favre
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Favre and Brees were drafted with the 33rd and 32nd picks, respectively. Additionally, Green Bay used a first round pick to acquire Favre from the Falcons. Rich Gannon never won a Super Bowl. Troy Aikman was a first round pick though.
Not sure where you're trying to go with this, other than to demonstrate that there have been QBs drafted in various rounds that have won Super Bowls.
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Favre and Brees were drafted with the 33rd and 32nd picks, respectively. Additionally, Green Bay used a first round pick to acquire Favre from the Falcons. Rich Gannon never won a Super Bowl. Troy Aikman was a first round pick though.
Not sure where you're trying to go with this, other than to demonstrate that there have been QBs drafted in various rounds that have won Super Bowls.
I'm not sure either.. I was just following the lead. 
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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"what if we used our picks this year to get better as a team"
I'm all for that as well.. Unfortunately it ain't worked out so well has it ? We been using picks everywhere else but a High QB spot for how long ?
Well, let's see! Since 1999! What happened then? A can't miss QB thrown onto a pitiful team with poor coaching and no supporting cast.
Then we spent following season firsts on can't miss DL (Courtney Brown & Gerard Warren) that turned into total busts for the Browns.
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If you think the QB sitting at your spot is a FRANCHISE QB and you don't have one... you TAKE him. Period. If you miss, you take another shot when you get a chance. Our top 4-7 pick selections may soon run out and the premier prospects won't be reachable.
Premier prospects won't be reachable? Why not? Aaron Rodgers, the elite of the elite was nabbed at #24. Are you telling me that no other teams other than SF (Alex Smith) needed a QB after Smith was taken #1 overall and that GB (who already had Favre) just decided to take him? Washington drafted Jason Campbell with the pick after Rodgers, but I think you'd agree that Rodgers is among the game's elite QBs and would have been considered a premier prospect.
Truth is, nobody knows whether Luck would develop any better than QB prospects like Landry Jones or Ryan Tannehill or Nick Foles, especially if put on a team like the Browns. We don't exactly have a history of drafting players that can help QBs out.
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the real question in this thread though is do you risk RGIII being there at #4, do you trade up for him, or do you go out and get Flynn so you don't have to worry about RGIII in the draft?
of the options, I prefer the Flynn route even though it increases the odds that RGIII drops to us (1 less team talking to StL/Minn, which decreases the odds they trade out of their slot)
Or do you pass on RG if he's there and select a different player altogether or trade out and get additional picks?
After last year's run on first round QBs:
1 - Cam Newton (CAR)
8 - Jake Locker (TEN)
10 - Blaine Gabbert (JAX)
12 - Christian Ponder (MIN)
The second round QBs:
35 - Andy Dalton (CIN)
36 - Colin Kaeperick (SF - might have pushed Smith to perform better)
The third round QB:
74 - Ryan Mallett (NE)
All of these were drafted at a higher position than where Colt McCoy was taken the previous year.
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Just clicking
Some food for thought:
In the last 15 years, how many top 10 selections (at QB) have worked out?
If you go back further, you'll hear that the game changed.. so just stick with 15 years..
There were 2 guys that were out of the top 10 but still first rounders that won superbowls (big ben 11th pick and Rogers 24th pick) flacco has done well I guess but he was the 18th pick.
From memory, I'm going with Manning, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Stafford, Palmer,
Ryan Leaf (#2, 1998)
Tim Couch (#1, 1999), Donovan McNabb (#2, 1999), Akili Smith (#3, 1999)
David Carr (#1, 2002), Joey Harrington (#3, 2002)
Byron Leftwich (#3, 2003)
Alex Smith (#1, 2005)
Vince Young (#3, 2006), Matt Leinart (#10, 2006)
JaMarcus Russell (#1, 2007)
Matt Ryan (#3, 2008)
Mark Sanchez (#5, 2009)
That's just the QBs taken in the Top 10 since 1998 (when Peyton Manning was selected #1) that you forgot about. Curiously, you completely forgot about Tim Couch, the Brown first pick back in 1999 re-inaugural draft.
Of those, you might say that Tim Couch had some success. He got the Browns into their first playoff (2002) and wasn't able to lead the team with Holcomb's performance in the game against Putzburgh in that playoff game (albeit a loss) and Couch never got his job back.
McNabb has had a good deal of success.
Alex Smith has finally arrived (although, most of those supporting 49er teams have been terrible) this year and they have a first round bye in the playoffs.
Vince Young had some success. As has Matt Ryan (with some really nice weapons) and Mark Sanchez (despite all reasoning).
But, Sanchez is proving why you don't trade up to get a QB high in the draft and some of those #1 overall selections were pretty bad.
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Legend
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Comparing Sanchez to Luck is just ridiculous...
We get it, you don't want to trade up for Luck.
But if prior failures in the draft were a reason not to draft someone... NOONE WOULD EVER GET DRAFTED...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Comparing Sanchez to Luck is just ridiculous...
We get it, you don't want to trade up for Luck.
But if prior failures in the draft were a reason not to draft someone... NOONE WOULD EVER GET DRAFTED...
I didn't compare Sanchez to Luck, although that comparison could be made. I think Luck would look better in that comparison. I was only listing the QBs that have been drafted in the Top 10 since Peyton Manning was selected in 1998. I added the comments about Sanchez because, by the definition of success described, Sanchez has been to 2 AFC Conference Championship Games (2009, 2010 seasons), he met those requirements.
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Neat. Nowhere in their did I say I hope Luck goes 1-8, 1-9, or 1-10.
I stand by what I said. Thanks for bringing it up. Kudos to you.
Trading 3 first round picks, plus a second - for one player, is stupid.
I don't think it's been done before - and if it has been, it didn't work.
Someone else, in this thread or another one - showed that first round picks have about a 40% success rate (subject to the last 2 picks who haven't had enough time to judged).
That's worth trading 3 first rounders plus for? Please, child.
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You're right. You said it here: Quote:
God forbid Luck gets drafted by the Browns. If he does, all we'll hear about is "we made it. We got the saviour." Then, after about week 6 to week 8 of the season, people will be griping about being 1-5 or 1-7. "We need a line. We need defense, We need receivers".
I guarantee it.
I was slightly off. You said 1-5 or 1-7, not 1-8 or 1-10. My bad.
And since you're playing the splitting hairs game, I never said you hoped he would have that record. I said you wanted to say "told you so" when he inevitably (in your opinion) did have that record.
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Legend
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You're right. You said it here:
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God forbid Luck gets drafted by the Browns. If he does, all we'll hear about is "we made it. We got the saviour." Then, after about week 6 to week 8 of the season, people will be griping about being 1-5 or 1-7. "We need a line. We need defense, We need receivers".
I guarantee it.
I was slightly off. You said 1-5 or 1-7, not 1-8 or 1-10. My bad.
WELL???? Get it right!!!! 
Let me bottom line it for you one last time: NEVER trade 3 first round picks plus a second or 2 for ANYONE. Can I make that any more clear?
Plus, I did NOT say I "hope he is 1-5 or 1-7". I said IF he is, watch the board go crazy with how terrible he is.
Dude, putting words in people's mouths is a touchy subject. It's worse when you are wrong with with you are trying to shove down.
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