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A franchise tag is a 1-year fully guaranteed contract. Green Bay can't afford to a QB franchise tag, which is projected to be between $14 and $15 million this year. They certainly can't afford to pay the money and not even have the player on their roster.
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Right, you tag him, he doesn't sign it, and then you trade his rights to some other team who negotiates a long term deal.
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I don't believe you can trade a player who isn't under contract, even if you've applied the franchise tag. Maybe you can.
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A franchise tag is a 1-year fully guaranteed contract. Green Bay can't afford to a QB franchise tag, which is projected to be between $14 and $15 million this year. They certainly can't afford to pay the money and not even have the player on their roster.
No, not if he is traded.
I understand the contract is guaranteed if he stays with the team, but if he is traded the contact is void.
Tell me we aren't going to debate contracts.
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They can't trade him without him signing the tender though.
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We're not going to give up a first round pick for Flynn. To be perfectly frank, I'd be surprised if we gave anything up for him and any play for him would simply be to sign him directly (he'll be a free agent) for to a multi-year incentive laden contract.
That's my take on it.
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Signing Flynn would handcuff our draft day options, which is why I don't think we'll sign him.
Actually, if they were looking at drafting a QB, it would relieve that pressure and allow them to go a different direction and use that pick to select another player.
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Say we sign Flynn then, for whatever reason, RGIII (who I don't like) falls to us. What do we do know? We can't take RGIII because we just committed big money to a free agent QB.
Then you field offers. If no acceptable offers are received, then you draft a different player. It really isn't that difficult.
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Say Indianpolis calls us the night before the draft and says, "We'll give you the #1 pick for both of your first rounders this year." Unlikely, but not impossible. We have to say.
Thanks, but we signed a QB in free agency. If you had read the transaction wire, you would have known that. Who's running that outfit over there since you fired the Polians?
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Flynn is an interesting option, but I think he is more of an option for a team that doesn't have the options we do in the draft.
And he's more of an option for us because we have those two first round picks.
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Wouldn't you rather have the possibility of trading up for Luck or drafting RGIII (if he's your guy) than signing Flynn?
Flynn seems like just as big of a risk as those guys, is older, and will cost more money.
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Wouldn't you rather have the possibility of trading up for Luck or drafting RGIII (if he's your guy) than signing Flynn?
Flynn seems like just as big of a risk as those guys, is older, and will cost more money.
It's not your money and and we can use all of our high draft picks for some playmakers. Flynn has two great NFL games under his belt, which is more than the qb's in the draft (and Colt McCoy)......meaning he is slightly less of a risk.
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It's not my money but I can want my favorite team to spend their money wisely. And from what I understand there aren't that many playmakers in this draft.
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I'm to the point I don't care WHAT we do...
It just needs to get to the point where we actually DO SOMETHING...
I'm tired of speculating...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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There are more than a few quality receivers, rb's and defensive backs. If we can get a qb and still retain all of our picks, I think it's a no brainer.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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2nd String
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Wouldn't you rather have the possibility of trading up for Luck or drafting RGIII (if he's your guy) than signing Flynn?
Flynn seems like just as big of a risk as those guys, is older, and will cost more money.
If the FO thinks he is the guy for the system I would rather have him and Blackmon than just RG3 or trading up for Luck.
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Wouldn't you rather have the possibility of trading up for Luck or drafting RGIII (if he's your guy) than signing Flynn?
Flynn seems like just as big of a risk as those guys, is older, and will cost more money.
Why would he cost more money? Make him an offer you think is fair. If he doesn't like it, shrug and walk away.
As for Luck, I don't want to trade up at the insane costs that some here have written that they would be be willing give up. If it's 3 firsts and other picks then I don't want Andrew Luck. I'd be willing to give the #4 and our second rounder (which is damned near another first rounder) and little more. If it took adding a fourth rounder, I'd give it. I wouldn't give up anything more and I'd flip Indy the bird.
As for RG3, I wouldn't even take him at Atlanta's pick if he fell that far. He's not a fit for the offense, so you'd have to retool your offense for him. I'd just say no and field trade offers or select Blackmon if he's there.
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Flynn seems like just as big of a risk as those guys, is older, and will cost more money.
I'm not saying Flynn would or wouldn't be a good signing, but signing one guy to a big contract costs the team a lot less overall than trading away a bunch of top draft picks for a guy who hasn't played a down in the NFL. The lost picks will cost a lot more in the long run for a team that needs players.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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I'm to the point I don't care WHAT we do...
It just needs to get to the point where we actually DO SOMETHING...
I'm tired of speculating...
Amen brother.. and it's only January 6. 
yebat' Putin
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That actually makes sense..
If I understand what your saying, they franchise him, which they can do, then they trade his rights away. if that's the case, I would think that no money exchanges hands from GB to Flynn.. so if no money is paid, then wouldn't it follow that there is no hit to thier cap?
Wow,,for GB, that sounds like the way to go.. except, what about Finley?
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Right. There are some considerations, though.
First and foremost, they need to have the trade deal worked out before they franchise tag him. If they apply the tag first (and he signs it) and wait for a trade partner, they run the risk of not finding one, and he goes on their books for ~$14.5 million guaranteed. He'll also have to agree to the deal, because no team is going to trade for him without the assurance that he'll sign a long-term deal with them. As far as I know, if they apply the tag and he does not sign it, the only options the team has are to work out a long-term deal or rescind the tag, making him an unrestricted free agent.
There's also the fact that the league technically does not want teams to franchise a player with the intent to trade him, but I don't think that it would stop them from approving the trade.
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Wouldn't you rather have the possibility of trading up for Luck or drafting RGIII (if he's your guy) than signing Flynn?
Flynn seems like just as big of a risk as those guys, is older, and will cost more money.
Flynn also has had time to learn the WCO under the most successful WCO system in the NFL right now with a QB-coach who completely revamped Aaron Rodgers delivery and tutored him into the elite QB he now is. No guarantees on Flynn, of course, but it's at least promising.
Flynn also allows us to get Blackmon/Miller/Z.Sanders in the draft to boost our offense (or Kalil/Miller/Sanu perhaps if you prefer?). Basically, gives us one less area of need so we can boost the rest of the team.
It just depends on how you think about Flynn though. If you think he can be our Schaub, then he's worth it by a mile. If you think he'd end up failing without the GB system (like Kolb w/o Philly's), then it'd be a failure. Or, if you think RGIII will drop to #4 AND you think that he is going to become an elite QB, then it could backfire as well.
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Right. There are some considerations, though.
First and foremost, they need to have the trade deal worked out before they franchise tag him. If they apply the tag first (and he signs it) and wait for a trade partner, they run the risk of not finding one, and he goes on their books for ~$14.5 million guaranteed. He'll also have to agree to the deal, because no team is going to trade for him without the assurance that he'll sign a long-term deal with them. As far as I know, if they apply the tag and he does not sign it, the only options the team has are to work out a long-term deal or rescind the tag, making him an unrestricted free agent.
There's also the fact that the league technically does not want teams to franchise a player with the intent to trade him, but I don't think that it would stop them from approving the trade.
You aren't listening Adam....he will sign with anybody.
He isn't going to say no and take the 14 mil to pass up 40 or so million. makes no sense.
Also, the money on the tag is only a salary.
GB can always cut him and don't have to pay a dime. Contracts aren't guaranteed, only bonus money.
THERE IS NO BONUS MONEY here...it is a straight, yearly contract.
Whatever risks you envision are minuscule.
I would be shocked if the Packers just let him go without working for some sort of compensation.
It makes no sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I believe Holmgren has said that when you take a QB high in the draft you have to play him
I think that concept may change as teams adjust to the rookie cap. Previously you had a lot invested in a high pick QB, where as now that investment is more feasible to give them time to learn and adjust.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j/c Marla Ridenour: Browns should target Packers backup quarterback Flynn By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal sports columnist Published: January 6, 2012 - 12:00 AM BEREA: There’s no need to force RGIII into a system he doesn’t fit. Instead, Browns fans should be obsessing over Green Bay Packers backup quarterback Matt Flynn. It’s going to be costly to sign the soon-to-be unrestricted free agent, especially after Flynn set the Packers’ franchise records by throwing for 480 yards and six touchdowns Sunday in a 45-41 victory over the Detroit Lions. But if the rebuilding Browns are searching for the fastest track to the playoffs, it would be with Flynn, not with a rookie like Heisman Trophy winner Robert Griffin III of Baylor. As Flynn’s touchdowns piled up against the Lions, so did the millions he should reap. He became the fourth quarterback in league history to pass for 475 yards and six or more touchdowns in a game, joining Y.A. Tittle, Joe Namath and Joe Montana. Flynn surpassed Packers marks held by Lynn Dickey (418 yards), hall of fame-bound Brett Favre and NFL Most Valuable Player candidate Aaron Rodgers (among five men to throw five touchdowns). In his season-ending news conference with General Manager Tom Heckert on Thursday, Browns President Mike Holmgren had a moment nearly as revealing as owner Randy Lerner’s reaction when learning the New York Jets had fired coach Eric Mangini after the 2008 season. (To refresh memories blurred by a 14-34 record since then, Lerner abruptly got up and left a media-packed conference room.) Although Holmgren steadfastly maintained he couldn’t discuss players from other teams, his eyes lit up when asked how much stock he put in a player throwing for nearly 500 yards and six touchdowns. “That’s pretty good,” Holmgren said. Asked if that was real, Holmgren said: “That’s a little unusual. You’re referencing the young man at what, the Packers? Yeah, I think when you go into your second start and you break the records that have been held by Bart Starr, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers in your second start, that’s a little unusual. Again, we can’t comment on players in the league right now.” That’s about as good a no-comment as the former Packers coach could give as he walked the tightrope of NFL tampering. There is a way for the Packers to keep Flynn, a seventh-round draft choice from LSU in 2008 who beat Ohio State in the 2007 BCS Championship Game. They could franchise him and then trade him, like the New England Patriots did with Matt Cassel. In 2009, the Patriots tagged Cassel, forcing any team that signed him to give up two first-round picks. But had the Patriots kept the franchised Cassel as insurance behind the injured Tom Brady, they would have had to pay Cassel more than $14 million. So they traded him to the Kansas City Chiefs for a second-rounder and 12-year veteran linebacker Mike Vrabel. Such a move with Flynn would be risky for the Packers. They would have to absorb about $23 million on their salary cap for two quarterbacks. Franchising Flynn might also mean losing tight end Jermichael Finley in free agency. For the Browns, the cost of Flynn could be steep. An agent who has represented a franchise player told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel this week that the Packers might be able to get a first-rounder for Flynn and perhaps a first- and a third-rounder. The Browns have two first-rounders, the fourth overall and the Atlanta Falcons’ pick that has yet to be determined. I would give up the Falcons’ pick in that scenario and also the third-rounder, but not No. 4. If Flynn hits free agency, the Browns have money to spend. He heads a weak free-agent class of quarterbacks (the New Orleans Saints’ Drew Brees excluded) that includes Jason Campbell and Kyle Orton. But Flynn carries risk for the Browns, too. He’s 26 years old and has made only two NFL starts, against the Lions this season and against the Patriots in 2010. Those pass defenses finished the regular seasons ranked 22nd and 30th, respectively. He has thrown only 132 career passes (completing 62.1 percent) with nine touchdowns and five interceptions. Without the Packers’ talent and scheme, he could turn out to be Scott Mitchell. The Browns are in desperate need of someone with better skills than Colt McCoy to compete with three playoff qualifiers in the AFC North. On Tuesday, coach Pat Shurmur refused to endorse McCoy as the starter for 2012 and Holmgren wouldn’t go that far, either, saying, “I’m not ready to anoint Colt yet.” To no one’s surprise, Heckert downplayed the chances of signing a quarterback in free agency, which begins on March 13. “It’s probably not the way we’re going to go, but you never know. It’s still early,” he said. He said the same thing about the chances of drafting a quarterback in the first round. Holmgren said the Browns’ plan is to build through a “smart, solid draft,” but didn’t rule out deviating from it to get a quarterback. During his two stints as an NFL coach with the Packers and Seahawks, Holmgren got his quarterbacks — Favre and Matt Hasselbeck — through trades. Before free agency begins, the Browns will fully explore the elite quarterbacks in the Class of 2012, especially Griffin and Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill. But Holmgren said he doesn’t believe in drastically altering his scheme to a player’s skill set, like the Denver Broncos did this season with Tim Tebow. That means the Browns will search for the best West Coast quarterback they can find. In my mind, that’s Flynn, even if the quarterback of the future doesn’t come cheap.
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Actually, if I'm not mistaken, once a franchise contract is signed it does become guaranteed, unless replaced with a different contract.
A team can't franchise a guy, have him sign the tender, then cut him and eliminate the contract from their books. The only things they could do at that point, and I'm not sure how the new CBA affects things, is to either then sign him to a long term deal, (which would include bonuses and/or guarantees) or trade him.
*Edit* The team can rescind their franchise offer at any time if the player does not sign it. This has happened a few times, where the player has refused to sign the tender, and the team eventually takes the franchise tender off the table and neither side then has any obligation to one another.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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GB can always cut him and don't have to pay a dime. Contracts aren't guaranteed, only bonus money.
I'm not sure that's accurate for Franchise Tagged players.. I mean, unless they tag him then pull the tag, I'd think they are stuck paying the tab. I also can't see them tagging him and then cutting him.. what value would that have? not sure I get that.
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The Browns have two first-rounders, the fourth overall and the Atlanta Falcons’ pick that has yet to be determined. I would give up the Falcons’ pick in that scenario and also the third-rounder
No.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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If you apply the franchise tag to a player and do not work out a long term contract with that player or trade him, it becomes a ONE-YEAR GUARANTEED CONTRACT with the team that applies the franchise tag. I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that. By accepting a franchise tag, a player is guaranteed that he will be paid at least the value of the franchise tag for his given position.
Not all contracts in the NFL are guaranteed, but there are players with guaranteed contracts beyond the signing bonus.
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I swear every story prior to this I've heard of people NOT want to be Franchise Tagged was because it WASN'T garunteed, and if they got hurt they got nothing basically...
Edit: Guess I'm wrong </google>
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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No, it's because the only thing they are guaranteed is that one year.
There is no signing bonus money that they get up front when they sign (which is all guaranteed). Additionally, it pretty much kills their ability to negotiate with other teams.... so, getting franchised drastically hurts their ability to make the most of their free agency window; of which, most players only get one or two chances at the big money during their career.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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GB can always cut him and don't have to pay a dime. Contracts aren't guaranteed, only bonus money.
I'm not sure that's accurate for Franchise Tagged players.. I mean, unless they tag him then pull the tag, I'd think they are stuck paying the tab. I also can't see them tagging him and then cutting him.. what value would that have? not sure I get that.
Maybe you're right. I know the cap number wouldn't adjust down, but I do think they can cut him and not pay real money.
Even so, say your right, which you and Adam could very well be, what kind of odds do you place on Flynn not getting offers all over the place? Or him not signing??
I'd say pretty slim on both accounts.
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Players dislike the franchise tag because they want long term deals and large signing bonuses.
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Players dislike the franchise tag because they want long term deals and large signing bonuses.
Exactly why there is little risk the Packers end up paying him the money next year.
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What do you mean when you say "getting offers from all over the place" and "not signing"? Do you mean contract offers in free agency or trade offers after being tagged? Not signing a contract with another team, or not signing a franchise tender? I just want to be sure I understand what you're saying.
For the record, I don't think Flynn will be tagged, so I think all of this discussion is moot.
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How do people feel about Flynn, compared to how they felt about Kolb?
Both had good/great games in spot duty...
I wanted nothing to do with Kolb, I'm oddly ok with Flynn... Dunno why...
Thoughts?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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FYI: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/NFLCBA2011-20.pdf Quote:
ARTICLE 10 FRANCHISE AND TRANSITION PLAYERS
(from Section 2(c))
(c) If a player subject to a Franchise Player designation accepts the Required Tender, the resulting Player Contract shall be fully guaranteed if the player’s contract is terminated because of lack of comparative skill; as a result of an injury sustained in the performance of his services under his Player Contract; and/or due to a Club’s determina-tion to create Room for Salary Cap purposes. For purposes of this Subsection only, any contract termination due to the failure of the player to establish or maintain his excellent physical condition will be subject to review of a neutral physician appointed by the par-ties, whose physical findings will be conclusive in any arbitration proceeding relating to the physical condition of the player at the time of the exam, provided that such exam takes place within twenty (20) days of the contract termination.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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What do you mean when you say "getting offers from all over the place" and "not signing"? Do you mean contract offers in free agency or trade offers after being tagged? Not signing a contract with another team, or not signing a franchise tender? I just want to be sure I understand what you're saying.
For the record, I don't think Flynn will be tagged, so I think all of this discussion is moot.
After the Pack tags Flynn.
I don't think by tagging Flynn teams are going to be reluctant to seek his services. Rather, they will be banging on the Packers doors to find out what it will cost to secure his rights if they can work out a deal.
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i know it goes through different regimes (but nearly the same system) but for some reason QBs out of GB have thrived while QBs out of Philly have struggled.
Kolb
McNabb - he may have just been out of gas for his career though
AJ Feeley
Koy Detmer
(also Jeff Garcia and Michael Vick had their best seasons later in their career for them)
It's like Reid is good at helping QBs when he has them but they don't retain it when they leave?
GB
Brunell
Hasselbeck
Aaron Brooks
Brett Favre - was having a good year in NYJ before injury and had one of his best career years first year in Minn
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For the record, I don't think Flynn will be tagged, so I think all of this discussion is moot.
Cool, it's why we are having the discussion.
I think it will boil down to the Packers desire to gain some form of compensation V how much room under the cap they have to play with.
If taking the paper cap hit puts them at a point they have no room to do things with other players, I agree, they don't tag him.
If they feel they have the room to take the charge, then they do.
We'll see.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
That actually makes sense..
If I understand what your saying, they franchise him, which they can do, then they trade his rights away. if that's the case, I would think that no money exchanges hands from GB to Flynn.. so if no money is paid, then wouldn't it follow that there is no hit to thier cap?
Wow,,for GB, that sounds like the way to go.. except, what about Finley?
I thought that franchising a player with intent to make a trade ... Is illegal under the CBA?
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Matt Flynn? Hmm...continued.
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