DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Triathlons

So, in January 2011 I decided to get fit and live a healthier lifestyle, and as such I set and accomplished several goals. Starting with running and cutting fat, through a series of incremental goals I got myself down from a peak weight of nearly 250 lbs (and probably 35+% body fat) to my military days weight of 187 and roughly 12.5% body fat. I then decided that I was tired of being scrawny and that I wanted to bulk up and get some nice muscle definition... and over the last 6 months I was able to pack on 20+ pounds of lean mass while lowering my body fat percentage even further... which was exactly my 6 month goal.

So, now we're into 2012 and I've met all my goals from 2011... so I needed to set new ones, and I've decided on triathlons.

I've set late March as my target for competing/completing a Sprint Triathlon. I feel that this should be relatively easy as I think that I could probably roll out of bed tomorrow and finish one... but, I've set a future date to better train so that I can somewhat compete and not just go for merely completing it.

Then, I'm kinda eyeballing the May-June time frame to step up a notch and complete an Olympic length triathlon. This is actually my overall goal for the year and if it is as far as I get, I'd be quite content to say that I did it.

That said, today I registered for the Cleveland Half-Marathon in May with the idea that it will tell me whether or not I'll be up for my pie-in-the-sky goal of completing the Cedar Point Half-Ironman in September.



With all that background info now out of the way... has any of y'all ever done the triathlon thing? What were your experiences? What pitfalls can I avoid?
Any tips on training, diet, equipment? What about strategy for things like the transition areas and gear? I mean, I don't want to try running a half marathon in soggy padded bike pants, lol!

I personally cannot offer you a thing. However, I have a friend in Canad that, 2 years ago - made changes in his life. He has done marathons, 1 or 2 triathlons, he's done a half iron man - he's flying to Arizona in a couple of days to run a marathon there (only because his parents winter there).

He's a training fool. He could give you info on training for any event you want - nutrition, miles to run, when to break, what the 2 or 3 week prep before a race should be, etc

Let me know if you'd like to talk with him - seriously. He went from a 5'11", 210 lb drunk to a 5' 11", 150 lb. runner/marathoner/triathlete......and he'd go head over heels trying to help anyone.

If I can't get the help here, I will take you up on that for sure

I'm still so early in things that I'm more casually looking for info right now because with Cleveland weather, I can't even really begin to train outdoors yet, so I have yet to even buy a bike, etc...

I don't know if you'd want to talk to Arch's friend. They do things a little differently up in Canad.

Yeah yeah yeah - I meant CANADA.

Seriously though prp - if you're interested, let me know. He'd be able to walk you through anything and everything - plus, he's a computer dude!

Just what this world needs, physically fit nerds.

lol! Can never trust those guys from Canad. Those are the ones with the flip-top heads that they're always showing on South Park, right??

just be careful. my sister and her boyfriend (both in their 20s) decided to train for a marathon last year. they even paid a health facility to make sure they trained properly.

my sister ended up messing up her hip and not running the marathon. her boyfriend finished the marathon but did something to his knee as it is constantly bothering him now (wasn't before).

definitely not easy on the body.

I just finished my most serious season of Triathlons. I've done almost 2 dozen races of all lengths up to full IM and I'm totally addicted to them and have built much of my spring/summer/early fall activities around my Tri race schedule the last few years. Certainly not a bad choice of addiction considering the options.

Sounds like your goals are pretty realistic. Being in decent shape is pretty much all that's required to knock out a sprint with relative ease. You'll see when you get there that a lot of people, especially on the short distances and smaller races, don't particularly appear to be great shape and still manage to finish ok. As the distances go up and the races get more high profile, the ratio of questionably fit to true athletes shifts dramatically. If you're running with any regularity and are decent in a pool and on the bike the Olympic will be a good challenge but not too crazy. I'm here to tell you that you want to do a few months at least of targeted training before tackling a 1/2 IM. I did my 1st the summer before last and even though I had 7 or 8 Oly's under my belt at that point it was, up to that point, the hardest thing I'd ever done physically. I finished and did pretty well but I wasn't fully prepared for just how taxing my 1st 1/2 IM was really going to be. It's slightly longer than 2x's an Oly but in terms of physical exertion, it's 3 or even 4X's an Oly. The pacing and nutrition and mental game is on a whole 'nutha level. We won't even talk about full IM's. They are a completely different ball game. That said, you've got plenty of time to train for 1/2 by this coming summer but even a sprint or 2 and an Oly is something to be proud of.

If you're anything like me you don't just want to do it just to say you did it, you actually want to do decently. There's people who sign up for races of all lengths having trained minimally and basically just walk & stumble thru just so they can get the t-shirt and the bragging rights. I like to be prepared. I have no illusions of finishing near the top of the field as even the small races now adays attract a good number of very elite amateur and pro athletes going for a piece of the purse. I'm not going to break any records but I want push myself.. run the whole run without walking and near my speed goal, keep my speed on the bike paced evenly near my goal, swim with some push. Maybe your goals are similar.

So a few things no one really spelled out for me:

1. Figure out if your a group or solo trainer. I'm a solo guy... I wake at 4:30 to 5:30 and do most of my workouts before 7. I haven't really trained extensively with others outside of some rides. Some guys really flourish when training with others and there's all kinds of Tri groups, riding groups, running groups, open water swimming groups. Sometimes you meet them through tri-specific personal trainers or on forums like slowtwitch.com, beginnertraithlete.com and others. In either case it's a good idea to download a scheduled training program from one of the myriad triathlon devoted sites. beginnertriathlete.com has some for free. They're customizable and pretty handy.

2. Be prepared to freak the hell out on your first Triathlon swim. Start in the back and on the outside for your 1st race even if you're an amazing swimmer. It's bananas, the siren sounds and dozens of guys, sometimes 100+, all swimming on top of each other, kicking each other, tangling arms etc. My 1st race, being (what I thought was) a good swimmer who swam in a pond a bunch as a kid and for a swim team briefly in school I foolishly swam toward the middle front at the start line. I got kicked in the face, goggles knocked off, I got literally swam right over by the truly good openwater swimmers that were all around me. I'm not at all prone to panic but I almost bailed from that race and all future races right then and there. You see it happen every race to some poor noobie. The water is nothing like the pool, it's black and cold, no bottom in sight and no lane guides, and it's vietnam with all the other doods going hard. Once you get room you learn quickly that you've got to sight every 5 or so strokes because everyone, and I mean everyone, veers in one direction or the other when they swim in open water without regularly correcting against a sight. Try to find an open water location to do a practice swim solo. Get used to sighting... pushing yourself up out of the water in-stroke to spot a landmark. An open water swim group or trainer is valuable. Can't stress enough.

3. get a tri or swim specific wet suit if your doing a race in coldish water. Most spring and even some summer races allow for wetsuits. Don't get a scuba or surfing suit. You'll thank me.

4. Just about any bike is ok. Don't buy the hype that you need a $3K bike, especially early on. I bought a good "last years model" at 30% off $900 a few years back and I pass lots and lots of guys on bikes that cost many multiples more. It's been shown time and again that the time difference in an Oly between a top tier Cervello and basic model roadie with clip-on aero bars is pretty minimal with the same rider. The motor is always the most important.

5. That said, get aero bars on your bike and practice with them. Steering is a little tricky at first. But they force you to sit in a way that distributes exertion more evenly throughout your legs so you're saving you running muscles for the run. And they keep your arms from going dead over the long races. I thought they were kinda silly until I get them and I'm a total convert now. They're not critical but very helpful.

6. A swim trainer to sort out stroke issues is good thing for a few sessions. Same with bike and running trainers but a swim coach who specifically does triathlons is particularly helpful. There are triathlon trainers that will help you in all 3 but they're usually pricey. Still, technique in all 3 sports counts for A LOT! Some guy looks like he's in amazing shape and he'll finish well behind some guy who looks like average joe and it's often about technique.

7. When you don't know what to do today... run. Run every opportunity you get. Short runs, long runs, hills, flats, sprints. Ultimately success in triathlon is heart/lung training. The muscles will follow naturally.A heart rate monitor watch and chest strap is a good tool. Not critical in your 1st year but good.

8. Rest. At least once a week, twice a week in the beginning. Which means do nothing for 2 days a week. Not just that you aren't swim/bike/running. Do nothing or next to nothing. Preferably not one rest day right after the other, spit them up.

9. You didn't lose all that weight without leaning something about nutrition. Keeping weight down is easy when you're training hard but getting the balance right can be tricky, especially as you ramp things up. The subject is endless and important as it pertains to racing effectively. The choices become all the more important as you're performance becomes more directly and immediately reliant on what you're putting in your body on a daily basis.

10. Take it easy on your 1st race of each new length. You're setting the base line and the urge is ALWAYS to go off like a jackrabbit in the beginning, keep up in the middle and struggle like hell to stay in it towards the end. Having a little left in the tank at the end of your 1st race isn't a bad thing.

Oh, and 11... HAVE FUN!

Congratulations on your acheivements and meeting/exceeding your goals.

As for training for the marathons/triathalons/iron mans, I can't be of much help other than a steady regiment of workouts that feature the activites you will face. I know people who are physically fit and visably tone, but only focus certain muscle groups. Get them into a pick-up game of basketball or football and they won't get out of bed for 3 days.

I used to run on weekends in place of home cardio sessions, but my knee began hurting mid-way through a run, limped home. After 2 months off, and feeling good I went out again and within 1/2 mile the pain started again, so I guess running it out for me now. Problem I quit my workouts completely after the first knee issue, and have had a hard time starting back up.

It's amazing how easy it is to quit even when you know you enjoyed working out.

10Year.. awesome tips, thank you!

I'm definitely looking to perform in the races and not just complete them... though, I'll be happy to just complete the longer ones at first. I'm not fully committed to the Half-IM at this point, I intend to use the Cleveland Half-Mara to tell me whether or not I should go for the Half-IM.

As for bikes, of all things, I've found that Sam's Club carries aluminum road bikes for about $300 - 24 lbs, 16 speed Shimano drivetrain & shifters, etc. I have no illusions that they are top-end or even remotely near it, but I like the investment level for starting out.

The nutrition thing is going to take some figuring out for me, as in addition to training for the Tri's, I intend to continue my bodybuilding that I've been doing for the last 6 months... knowing that they are kinda diametrically opposed, I'm going to be kinda challenged to keep growing muscle while working toward the Tri's... but I expect that nutrition will go a LONG way toward helping that work for me. I'm definitely going to have to add a whole helluva lot more carbs to my diet than I've been having so far, and certainly more than just broccoli, lol.

As for swimming - I used to be near-drown-proof. I've always been an exceptional swimmer, and was once a rescue swimmer for the Navy... so being in open water - very black, literally miles deep water (I have been in the water in the center of the north atlantic) - isn't new to me. The swimming in a pack thing sucks. We did it once in swimmer school on the St. James River in Jax and we were all constantly swimming up on each other. The difference then being that we were told to stay in pace and maintain formation behind the guy in front of us, there was no free-for-all of people trying to gain position so the swim will definitely be a case of me staying to the outside, lol!!


Oh.. .bike sizing... should I go off of what they say on that Sams Club link? e.g. at 6' 2", would a 61cm bike be correct?




Florida - it sounds like you have something more serious in that knee that should get looked at. Call an ortho, get an xray and mri. Might just be a simple matter of cleaning out some tissue from a partially torn meniscus or an old ligament strain.. .perhaps even just some calcium buildup under the kneecap.

Background:

I have completed many triathlons of varying degrees all across the country. My background is swimming and was a top high school swimmer and played water polo in college. I wanted to remain competitive at swimming and thus took up triathlons. It's also one of the main reasons I moved to Hawaii in 2003.

Anything you want to know about the swims and I'm your guy. My favorite triathlon to date was the Escape from Alcatraz in San Francisco. The last time I did the Rock and Roll triathlon in Cleveland I was second out of the water in the swim.

Biking is terrible for me. I would love to get a coach to become a good cyclist. Just 45 minutes ago I picked up my tri bike from the bike shop!

I'm going to do my first triathlon in 10 years in 2012. Back problems, then weight gain and other issues have prevented me from riding but I think it's all in the rear view mirror now.

Running is okay. I am definitely a slow twitch dude when it comes to running. My friends used to tell me that I was the only guy they knew that could swim faster than he ran. It's almost true lol.

Swimming Tips

1. Do not start at the front of the pack unless you know no one is going to catch you AND you don't mind others drafting off you. The front line usually talks if it's a swim start (starting already in the water) and we get to know the group before the horn. If you aren't good enough to be there then bow out because you will get swam over.

2. The first triathlon you do is all about gaining experience. Not competing. Period. I'd even say that each time you do a new distance. You'll know when to ratchet up and get the blood pumping. It's not at the start of the swim though. Some people panic. My wife did in her first race. Start toward the outside (on the inside of the turn if you want to try and compete in the swim)

3. Pick you target on the horizon. Then look down with your goggles on and find the sun. If you can keep the sun in the same position when you are swimming as when you orient at the beginning you never have to look up. It's a swimmer secret and why you never see top tri swimmers re-orienting. Just test this your first time. For now take 20 strokes at least before you re-orient and breathe every 4 strokes. If that's too hard you're swimming too fast. Remember you have 2/3 of the race to go after you exit the water.

Bike Tips

1. Don't buy a Sams club bike. The bike time is usually half the actual time of the race. It's one of the reasons among many! that I haven't won my age group ever. Buy a used tri bike for about the same price. Craigslist all the way. Aero bars make all the difference. Buy one with them and get used to it. Great previous advice from 10yr.

2. That's it for bike tips! I stink!

Running Tips

1. Do brick workouts. It's where you incorporate a bike and run workout. I did not do this my first triathlon and it was one of the weirdest experiences of my life making that transition in a race. I literally hopped like a bunny rabbit running for the first 100 yards or so. The blood that is all in the quads needs to shift to the hamstrings. Until it does you will look like a damn fool, just like me. Practice this and you won't ever have an issue.

2. Get up to speed gently your first quarter mile then manage your goal speed from there.

3. This is the last event so leave it all on the course! My experience is to get out ahead in the swim. Then I hear all the Zipp wheels and $10k bikes start to catch me. Then the good cyclists get past me. Then I catch quite a few people on the run.

4. Have fun! Tons of people talk on the course. Compete with others. Don't let that guy out run you! Stay on his heels!

Funny story I did that during Alcatraz. I was 185 and ripped up. This guy passes me at the start of the run and he's 220 and looked like he should have a remote sewn onto his hand.

I literally threw my race prep out the window and told myself I was not going to get beat by that guy. About 3 miles later, dying to stay on his heels I catch up to him and thank him for helping to pull me along. We talk for about 5 minutes. Then he mentions how he's doing the race as a relay with 2 of his best friends.

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

But it was awesome...after that I passed him and for some reason it energized me. Like I was some sort of super human or something ridiculous. Caught a bigger guy in great shape next...turned out to be the head trainer of the Chicago Cubs. We talked for a while and he gave me a front row ticket to the next day's Cubs vs. Giants game. Got to sit next to the dugout and see the relievers warm up right next to me. Sweet!

Have fun and if you have any questions let me know!!!

Good luck!

Cool! This and 10YOS's post is the stuff I need to be learning

On the Sam's bike thing... I realize that it won't be a world-class bike, but would it really be THAT inferior for a beginner like me?

I'm thinking that for my currently ability level that *I'M* the limiter, not the equipment.


Brick workout... will definitely have to incorporate that! Is that just a once or twice a week thing, or an every time I run thing??

If boats are holes in the water you throw money in ...... then what are bikes?

I guess it just depends. There are people who ride mountain bikes during on-road triathlons.

Would it be far superior from the Sams Club option? Yes.

And you could use that bike until you got to the point where you wanted to really compete and win some of the races.

I don't know actual figures but a cyclist on a $300 Sams club bike vs. that same rider on a tri bike similar to the one I showed would get smoked.

It'd probably shave at least a minute or two off a sprint triathlon. Maybe five minutes or more off an Olympic distance.

And it'd get you used to proper position for race cycling in triathlons which is very forward and steep compared to what you're used to.

Being 100% comfortable in aero bars, absolutely jamming on the pedals....you would fly by the guy on the Sams club bike.

I know...I have a mid-range Cannondale tri bike and get smoked by the Zipp guys all the time. It's almost like I'm standing still sometimes and I know for a fact they wouldn't be doing that if the bikes were reversed.

holy smokes! Hopefully that bike, or one like it, will be there when I'm ready to buy (gonna be a couple of weeks, yet).

Ok, cool ... that's the sort of thing I was looking for. I knew there would be some difference in the equipment, but I had no idea how much.... that is a very significant difference.
A 5 minute difference is nothing to sneeze at for ANY distance.

Check it out!

I'm back baby!

Just picked it up and going to take it on its first spin in a long, long time this weekend.

lol, I can just imagine!

I'm still lifting heavily (and plan to continue to do so) and yesterday was my first day of running on a "Legs" day.... so, after doing a full leg workout of squats, deadlifts, etc.... I then got on the treadmill.

lol, it was like trying to stand on jelly

Ah yes, bricks, good advice. I call the 1st 1/4 mile of the run the constipated chicken. Regular bricks are definitely the cure.

And the beginner bike thing is a long and storied debate on the forums. It rages on. Go cheap and earn your motor or go whole hog and commit early. Gotta make the decision yourself. I would say if you are going to buy an inexpensive new bike buy a low end model from a trustworthy dedicated bike shop. They'll make sure you get right size, which has more to do with inseam length and a few other things beyond just height. I'm 6'1" but I've got a classic wrestlers build... Shortish legs and long trunk. So I'm on a 58. You really gotta get sized right, it matters. After that getting the bike fitted to you is also important. A good used bike can work but do the homework. Know your size and what features you want etc. You're still going to want to get fitted after you buy it.

Your military experience is going to serve you very well in the water. I'm not a great swimmer in terms of speed but I can swim forever. Finished my 1st 10k swim this summer. I'm just rather slow. I'm the opposite Hel, mediocre in the water, kill on the bike, and a granny on the run. oh how I work on the run to little avail.

I'm in the lottery for Alcatraz this year. That's the one race I'm really looking forward to. I'll get in one of these years.

When you get in make sure to PM me.

There are a lot of odd nuances of the course that I learned only by doing it. I think I could shave a good 10-15 minutes off of an equal effort.

Was looking for some race information and came across this video from Dave Scott...one of triathlon's best swimmers. I thought you might benefit from it.

Guide to Swimming Form

Some more swim tips are here:

7 Ways to Improve Your Swimming Form

#5 is the one that most beginner swimmers get wrong.
#7 is spot on. don't worry about getting stronger in the water. concentrate on swimming correctly. added bonus...you'll save lots and lots of energy to use on the bike and the run.

This is perfect freestyle form. Beautiful, relaxed and efficient. It's what you should be striving to achieve.

Robert Hurley

At the beginning of the video watch him. Then rewatch it and watch the guy two lanes below him. That's not what you want to look like!

And I'm sure this is a top notch field too.

Last One!

My favorite freestyler ever: Ian Thorpe

Start the video at 2:58. It's when the race begins.



Look at the body position. The high elbows and long lean stroke. The kick is awesome too (size 17 feet).

And the stroke never breaks down one iota. Watch the last 50 meters. Just going all out but not compromising his form one bit.

A thing of beauty.

Dude, you rock! I am sooo gonna be studying these (and trying to replicate in the pool).

So, I haven't started swimming, yet (still dragging my feet on getting a 2nd gym membership so that I have access to a pool), but I did my first Brick Workout today, lol.

Did 20 minutes on the stationary bike (about 6.5 miles), then immediately jumped onto the treadmill at a casual 7.0 mph... and holy crap, my legs were NOT happy with me!!
If it wasn't a lunch time workout, I'd have ran longer, but I only stayed on for about a mile until my legs had felt like they had acclimated.


Oh, and an obvious word of caution to anyone that cares to take note: Don't go for a large Indian buffet lunch and then decide to do an early afternoon workout an hour later. Curry burps SUCK.

Well now you know what it feels like! The effect decreases the more you do it and soon it'll be less than a quarter mile till you feel completely normal.

Going for a longer ride here shortly. We'll see how these old legs hold up.

Zombie thread Lives!

Just a little thread resurrection for a minor self-brag.
I received this in an email this morning:

Quote:

---

Congratulations Christopher . You have qualified for the Olympic-Distance race at the 2013 USA Triathlon Age Group National Championships on August 10 in Milwaukee, Wis., after finishing in the top 10 percent in your age group at the Ashland University Triathlon.



The USA Triathlon Olympic Distance National Championship is the nation’s premier amateur Olympic-distance event with top athletes from all 50 states forming one of the most prestigious age-group fields in the sport. A select few athletes from each age group will also qualify to represent Team USA at the 2014 International Triathlon Union (ITU) World Championships. ITU has announced that the 2014 World Championships will be held in Edmonton, Canada. Details will be added to the Team USA website as ITU makes announcements.

---

If you need a training partner let me know.

I will send Jules up to yell at you on a daily basis

Dear Lord, no!

Sweet!



btw...aren't you glad you got that bike?!?

Not sure what that means. But if its anything like powder coated donuts then I approve!

Congrats on the Qual man ... just getting back into cycling a bit myself, but I'm feeling old already ... not to mention my bike feels old too.

What kind of Frankenbike are you using these days?

Thanks! I'm pretty stoked about the Qual. I know that in the grand scheme, it isn't anywhere near as prestigious as qualifying for Kona or the Boston Marathon, but I'll take what I can get


My race bike is a 58cm 2011 Cervelo P1 with 90mm carbon wheels and an aerojacket wheel cover that allows the rear wheel to be almost as good as a full disk.
(This is me on the bike for Ironman 70.3 San Juan on March 17th, 2013: pic)

The FrankenBike that i'm building is a 58cm 2001 Cervelo P2K frameset (looks like this pic). I'm going to be building it up with inexpensive microSHIFT Arsis groupset and a standard FSA Gossamer crankset. It should be a fun rig to ride, even if the drops end up a little lower than normal.
The frame is getting painted/powder coated matte black and then done up with a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy theme, hehe ("DON'T PANIC" in large letters on the down tube, the green H2G2 guy on the face of the head tube, etc... )

Good for you man. I have been on a similar mission the last 3 years. I am older, so packing on muscle is harder, though I have, and I am not going to be participating in any triathlons, but I do pound the pavement walking 30-35 miles a week on avarage (once the weather breaks....say April through November). Dec.- March is hit or miss....a day here, a day there.


I also lift 2-3 days a week.....well, probably on average more like two, but that is year round.....was in the gym at 5:15 this morning before my 6 mile walk.