I've never disagreed with anyone on how peoples opinions merit versus themselves.
You were the one that stated "If people havn't played HS Football then they don't know what they're talking about"
You were the one that called me stupid for stating my opinion (oh I'm sorry, you did it in the form of a question, that's completely different right?)
I don't have a problem with opinions, I don't even disagree with most of them (I've stated many of times im OK with Colt starting next season, I just think we can do better) You are the one that feels the need to attack people that state their opinions...
But I'M the one with the problem...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
If anyone ever watched the Sports Science segment with Drew Brees, you would have an appreciation of accuracy. It is more than luck. It is a fun watch... 20 of 20 or something silly like that.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I am not going to get in to where the perfect spot might be.
I do know Colts tends to underthrow the ball a high percentage of the time, making his receivers slow down, which pretty much eliminates the YAC potential.
Colt is pretty accurate when throwing to a stationary target, and not very accurate when throwing to a moving target.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Quote: I had the opportunity to listen Coach Kerhes of Mount Union speak a week or so ago. The conversation got around to QBs,what he looks for and grading them. He defines accuracy as this; A reciever holds his arm out to his side parallel to the ground,he bends his arms 90 degrees downward at the elbow,then bends 90 degrees upward to form an imaginary box.(It would be nice if I had a visual aid here) His QBs are assesd on the percentage of passes they throw "in the box" now remember that box moves as the reciever moves and if the reciever has to break his stride,it's not graded as a good pass.AQB with acceptable,not good,accuracy will hit on 75% of his throws,practice and games combined. As a side note,these are the 5 attributes he looks for in a QB 1.intelligence 2. mental toughness 3. leadership 4.accuracy 5.mobility
Just bumping this. I hate the last post on a page because I feel it gets lost sometimes once the next page gets going (is that just me?) and felt this was a good enough post that it should be carried over.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Quote: I had the opportunity to listen Coach Kerhes of Mount Union speak a week or so ago. The conversation got around to QBs,what he looks for and grading them. He defines accuracy as this; A reciever holds his arm out to his side parallel to the ground,he bends his arms 90 degrees downward at the elbow,then bends 90 degrees upward to form an imaginary box.(It would be nice if I had a visual aid here) His QBs are assesd on the percentage of passes they throw "in the box" now remember that box moves as the reciever moves and if the reciever has to break his stride,it's not graded as a good pass.AQB with acceptable,not good,accuracy will hit on 75% of his throws,practice and games combined. As a side note,these are the 5 attributes he looks for in a QB 1.intelligence 2. mental toughness 3. leadership 4.accuracy 5.mobility
Just bumping this. I hate the last post on a page because I feel it gets lost sometimes once the next page gets going (is that just me?) and felt this was a good enough post that it should be carried over.
He's a heck of a Coach and not just because my nephew Craig Leone [Riverside] played RB for him either, before an injury ended his dream
Now he is a 1st Lieutenant in the Army Rangers. Sis still blamed me for causing that decision LOL
Reading some of these post you would think that Arm Strength would be in his top 5 attributes.
Quote: Reading some of these post you would think that Arm Strength would be in his top 5 attributes.
Could be completely unrelated but could the fact that mount union is division III college football affect this at all? Maybe arm strength at that level is a less important attribute. Not saying that is the case, just posing the question.
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Quote: Reading some of these post you would think that Arm Strength would be in his top 5 attributes.
Could be completely unrelated but could the fact that mount union is division III college football affect this at all? Maybe arm strength at that level is a less important attribute. Not saying that is the case, just posing the question.
Perhaps to a degree, but it's more likely that it's just further down the list.
Quote: Reading some of these post you would think that Arm Strength would be in his top 5 attributes.
Could be completely unrelated but could the fact that mount union is division III college football affect this at all? Maybe arm strength at that level is a less important attribute. Not saying that is the case, just posing the question.
I think that you expect a certain level of arm strength at the professional level, and in fact, disqualify anyone falling below a certain level. Thus it becomes of somewhat lower importance.
Obviously a QB must be intelligent, especially in a complex offense like we run. In many ways, the smarter the QB the quicker he could be expected to pick things up.
Mental toughness is vital for a QB, especially a QB coming into a less than ideal situation. If he lacks that toughness, he'll crack under the pressure like an egg in a vice.
The QB has to be the leader of the team. One voice must speak in the huddle. I remember when DA took over as starting QB how Joe Thomas and others spoke about how he silenced the other voices in the huddle, voices that were loud and pronounced when Frye was the QB. The QB has to lead, and get the team to follow. If he can't, then he's just a placeholder.
Accuracy has been the subject of a great deal of debate ..... much, much more than I ever would have believed possible.If a QB is inaccurate, or throws the ball to the wrong spot, side, or such, then it could be a completed pass, but it's not going to be a big play.
I found that sports science thing on Drew Brees. It's pretty incredible.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
In relation to Brees' accuracy - this means nothing. He's accurate. But the vid is misleading, to say the least - comparing a 20 yd. football throw to a 75 yd. archery shoot.
Anyway - only reason I bring it up is because I was thinking "dang - I might have a future as an olympic archer if they shoot at 20 yds. and only hit the bulls eye 50% of the time.
That's a good question about D-3 ball,and as it always seems with profound questions,I have no idea. My Sat.during the fall are occupied,so I've not actually seen MU play,but,I have caught several of their JV games on Sun.They run a quick pass spread O.The ball is out of the QB's hand quickly and doesn't travel that far. Remember,this is at the JV level,and it may have more to do with who they were playing,than with how they actually play. Now that I really think about,I maynot know what I'm talking about,as Ispend alot of time tailgating,BS'ing and staring at the cheerleaders.It's my day off.
Quote: I'd be happy if we could drop down the board, but would want to say at or around 10-15.
I proposed this to my brother (who likes the Browns but whose #1 team is the Cowboys) and if Morris Claiborne is there, that we could trade down from 4 to 14 (Dallas' pick) and acquire their first next year and a third this year and a 2nd next year. They desperately need a top-flight CB in a bad way.
Throw out the 'draft value chart', is that too much to ask for? He said that he wouldn't take it if he was making the decisions in Dallas.
Some believe Tannehill is slotted for #14 to Dallas... I dunno...
Does Jerry think he's a top flight CB away? Or better yet, does Jerry just want to make another big move so people will start talking about Jerry again?
Depending on who's at #4, I'd take it ONLY if we got the #1 next year, there are FEW trade downs this year (especially if someone wants a QB) that I won't be asking for a #1 next year...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
The value chart is about to be rewritten. a trade up that costs a 3rd last year could cost a 2nd and 4th this year. 2nd round last year you may be looking at 2nd this year as well as a 2nd in next years. Those bottom teams are going to want to move up for the elite players since the pricetag is so low for them and lets fact it you aren't going to have 8 or 9 rookies make the playoff teams roster.
Quote: Some believe Tannehill is slotted for #14 to Dallas... I dunno...
Does Jerry think he's a top flight CB away? Or better yet, does Jerry just want to make another big move so people will start talking about Jerry again?
Depending on who's at #4, I'd take it ONLY if we got the #1 next year, there are FEW trade downs this year (especially if someone wants a QB) that I won't be asking for a #1 next year...
He will if he wants to make money. I haven't met a single Cowboys fan (and I know a great deal of them) that think that Terrence Newman is the answer. A few of them would trade him for anything offered or flat out release him if they couldn't sucker anyone into giving up a draft pick for him. Seems that Jones isn't impressed (link) and Newman will be out of the league. No team is likely to even give him a roster spot after Dallas releases him.
Yeah, they're going to be looking for the best CB they can get their hands on and we might be able to benefit from it.
Theres a difference between NEEDING a CB, and trading multiple picks for one...
Cle and Arizona currently enjoy their CBs they've drafted, hell Peterson WON games for Arizona last year...
But would either team have traded UP for them? I doubt it...
Dallas could sit at 14 and take Kirkpatrick and sign a FA, but the idea of Jerry wanting to make a SPLASH (because it's been a year since he has) is basically the only way I think we'd get a deal done...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quote: Theres a difference between NEEDING a CB, and trading multiple picks for one...
Of course, but if that CB is viewed as elite (as Claiborne is) and you're picking at #14 (with no chance of getting him otherwise), you may want to go up and get him (Atlanta went up and got Julio Jones, further than Dallas would have to go) for what many consider a less crucial position and a less-sure bet than what Claiborne is presumed to be.
Of course, we'll have to see if Claiborne is all that and if Julio Jones turns into what Atlanta thought he would be (although, their record and playoff result was worse this year than it was last year - they had a first round bye last year) despite getting Julio Jones in the trade with us.
Patrick Peterson did rather decently (4 return TDs and 2 picks) for a rookie last year. I truly think that the Browns would have selected him if Arizona hadn't but that our option of trading down was triggered when Arizona nabbed Peterson.
Quote: Cle and Arizona currently enjoy their CBs they've drafted, hell Peterson WON games for Arizona last year...
But would either team have traded UP for them? I doubt it...
Neither the Browns nor Arizona had to. Claiborne won't make it anywhere near the #14 spot for Dallas. If he's on the board when the Browns draft, he could very well be the Browns pick (and not a bad consolation prize for missing out on Peterson by 1 selection last year) and if the Browns don't take him, it's quite likely that Tampa Bay will.
Quote: Dallas could sit at 14 and take Kirkpatrick and sign a FA, but the idea of Jerry wanting to make a SPLASH (because it's been a year since he has) is basically the only way I think we'd get a deal done...
Maybe Kirkpatrick will be there at #14. I highly doubt it though. There are a number of teams looking for CBs ahead of Dallas and Kirkpatrick's legal issues will cause a number of them to pass on him, maybe even Jerry Jones.
Quote: I'd be happy if we could drop down the board, but would want to say at or around 10-15.
I proposed this to my brother (who likes the Browns but whose #1 team is the Cowboys) and if Morris Claiborne is there, that we could trade down from 4 to 14 (Dallas' pick) and acquire their first next year and a third this year and a 2nd next year. They desperately need a top-flight CB in a bad way.
Throw out the 'draft value chart', is that too much to ask for? He said that he wouldn't take it if he was making the decisions in Dallas.
Not only do u not get it about QB's in the NFL...
Now u wanna trade away a Top 3 ELITE talent also...
Someone else said it and they r 100% correct...This draft has 6 ELITE talents...5 if u don't consider Blackmon elite...
Picks in future drafts r not coveted and u wanna make a move like that for TWO picks next year...The only reason they get added to any trade is because teams don't have enough high picks is THIS draft to compensate a decent deal...
If we trade away Claiborne we r FOOLS...He may just be the 2nd BPA behind Luck...
I would put Claiborne at 3 right now, behind Luck and Griffin. I don't see us taking the WR at 4 unless those 3 are gone ...... and maybe not even then.
I guess I should add ...... IMHO ..... as if it was anything but my opinion .........
Last edited by YTownBrownsFan; 02/16/1206:49 AM.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I really don't see us going OL at 4. Not to fill the RT spot. I think that Kalil is a good talent, but I don't think that the value/position trade-off is there for the 4th overall pick for our team to fill the RT spot. I think that if he was the guy left on the board for us, we would look to trade down ........
and as always ...... JMHO.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I'm thinking the first next year and all other picks must be this years draft. But only if the FO is on the fence about McCoy or believes he is the guy. That way if they are wrong we have most of the pieces in place and the picks to move up and get the best QB available next year. In particular Barkley as I think he will be better than Griffin ( just my opinion).If we start McCoy and he ends up not being the guy we will be picking top ten next year.
I agree on the value for position, but I see so much of a dropoff after Kalil/Reiff to the rest of the OTs. I don't see as much of a dropoff from Blackmon to K-Wright/Sanu. Or from Richardson to L.Miller/Wilson. (and my preference is to get RT/RB/WR in the first 3 picks as I think we have value spots to fill in each)
so, I would consider RT at #4 based on that but would ultimately love to trade down if we could.
Left tackles and right tackles asked to do different things. LT's are asked to be primarily pass blockers. A guy who can take on the defenses best pas rusher and handle him one on one. Any quality run blocking is considered a bonus.
The RT is asked to primarily be a strong run blocker. In the passing game the RT is often helped out by the TE or Rb.
LT's go higher because they are harder to find.
Kalil is a LT. He is a very good pass protector but doesn't have the size and strength to be a RT - IMO
Don't blame the clown for acting like a clown. Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
Quote: Left tackles and right tackles asked to do different things. LT's are asked to be primarily pass blockers. A guy who can take on the defenses best pas rusher and handle him one on one. Any quality run blocking is considered a bonus.
The RT is asked to primarily be a strong run blocker. In the passing game the RT is often helped out by the TE or Rb.
LT's go higher because they are harder to find.
Kalil is a LT. He is a very good pass protector but doesn't have the size and strength to be a RT - IMO
I agree Kalil like JT are better left on the weak side.
not sure that applies as much in the WCO though. depends on what we do with it, of course.
but, having a guy like Kalil, we would be able to use Moore as TE more often as he wouldn't have as much pass-blocking responsibilities. Also, RTs in the WCO have more pass blocking responsibilities anyway.
Also, the LG is supposed to have alot more pulling options to the right side in the WCO (we abandoned some of that late as Pinkston isn't the quickest guy in the world). If Steinbach is back, then we could do these overload runs to the right and having a good but not great run-blocking RT could still work well.
Or, we could trade down and pick Reiff who is more of that prototypical RT.
Quote: I'd be happy if we could drop down the board, but would want to say at or around 10-15.
I proposed this to my brother (who likes the Browns but whose #1 team is the Cowboys) and if Morris Claiborne is there, that we could trade down from 4 to 14 (Dallas' pick) and acquire their first next year and a third this year and a 2nd next year. They desperately need a top-flight CB in a bad way.
Throw out the 'draft value chart', is that too much to ask for? He said that he wouldn't take it if he was making the decisions in Dallas.
Not only do u not get it about QB's in the NFL...
Now u wanna trade away a Top 3 ELITE talent also...
Someone else said it and they r 100% correct...This draft has 6 ELITE talents...5 if u don't consider Blackmon elite...
Picks in future drafts r not coveted and u wanna make a move like that for TWO picks next year...The only reason they get added to any trade is because teams don't have enough high picks is THIS draft to compensate a decent deal...
If we trade away Claiborne we r FOOLS...He may just be the 2nd BPA behind Luck...
Oh, I'm not sure that I would pass up on Claiborne. I'm just tossing out the possibility. There are lots of possibilities for the Browns in this draft but there will be lots of opportunities in the draft next year too.
We could very well take Claiborne if he is there, but we could also target getting a very high quality player in the middle of the first round and pile up additional picks.
I'm not sure that I understand the view that a player (even a talented one) must be taken in any draft if players with very high talent levels can be accumulated in the draft in successive years.
For example, we could possibly get two first rounders in this draft and in next year's draft and multiple second rounders in the draft as well (yeah, I highly value the opportunity to get highly talented players in the draft as frequently as possible). Sure, you could get an elite player in the Top 5 or Top 10 of the draft. That's quite possible, and highly probable. You could also select a phenomenal bust. You could do the same further down in the first round, but you're likely to get a highly productive player further down in the draft. A look at recent drafts will verify this.
Give me more choices later in the first round and in the second round over a Top 5 or even Top 10 picks! Sure, if you draft in the Top 5, you'll hit on a high quality player most of the time, but your odds of hitting on one increase with the greater your numbers of picks in the first two rounds than if you hold firm to a Top 5 or Top 10 pick when you have one. When you're picking in the Top 5 or Top 10 consistently, the team obviously has more holes than it can fill with the number of picks you're getting.
I would certainly entertain the idea of going up and getting Andrew Luck if the price wasn't too high and he was available at #2 (if Indy somehow falls in love with RG3 and takes him over Luck). I'd give the #4 and #37 for him if I got the Rams #2 and their 3rd.
If the Rams demanded the #4 & #22, then I'd demand the #2, their 2nd and their 3rd, but I wouldn't necessarily initiate the call.
The more I think about it and the closer we get to the draft I firmly believe this is the best option for us at this point and moving forward. Knowing that Heckert and Holmgren have stayed true to building through the draft and not going crazy in free agency and taking into consideration the amount of holes and lack of depth on our roster help's reinforce that thought for me.
I am starting to wonder where Heckert and Company have Coples rated on their Board. If you can pick up an extra 2nd and still get your top rated DE I think you have to look at it. It fills a position of need with your highest valued guy. I wouldn't mind going Defense with the first two picks if we get an extra 2nd and maybe more depending on how far down we can go and still get our guy. I believe that we need to finish it off and stop the run to compete in our Division. Every team in our division is stronger on the Defense than on offense. If we want to compete we need to stop their weakness to stay in games instead of hoping and failing to attack their strength. We give ourselves a better opportunity to win if we keep the score low and keep their offense from running at will and controlling the clock. We are not going to just start outscoring teams in our second year in the system but with a second year in and a full offseason we will score more and with a better defense we can turn a lot of those close games into W's.
I know Coples has some questions but the Brass know what they are looking at, I think the knock is he lacked effort and consistency. McShay had this to say about him. "The talent is top-five," McShay said. "I mean, it's hard to really debate that when you look at his size, his quickness, his ability to turn speed to power as a pass-rusher, his ability to seal off the edge and really defend the running game with some power, size and strength, he can do it all." We need to stop the run and put more pressure on the passer with our front four. I can't help Salivate over the Thought of having a front four of Sheard, Rebin, Taylor, and Coples.
Then the thought of adding Vontaze Burfict to add a nastiness and enforcer in the middle and a leader on the field. You can question Burfict, but the guy goes hard every play. Mayock doesn't particulary care for him, but I see an impact player with all the tools. Just watching him, I have no idea where Mayock comes off with this. He basically rebuted every positive attribute this guy was known for his first three years. Which are instincts, strength at point of attack, and ability to make a play with blockers on him. The negatives were his personal foul penalties and ability to control his anger on the field after the whistle blows. Like Newton did last year, I look for Burfict makes Mayock look silly again.
A trade down with Seattle would be nice so I will use that as my target team in my Brown's Mock. I will use their 2nd this year as part of the trade and would also include the remaining value from a pick in next years draft.
I think we will sign a WR in Free agency Colston or Meachem.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
It cracks me up that you still have us taking Burfict in the first round.
Quote: “I’m not a fan at all,” Mayock said of Burfict on Wednesday’s conference call with the media. “I just watched a bunch of his tape the other day. I came away unimpressed.”
Burfict has been criticized for off-field issues as well as his on-field self control, committing a high number of personal foul penalties. Mayock said he tried to filter out Burfict’s off- and on-field character when breaking down the player.
“His instincts aren’t good,” Mayock added. “He gets enveloped by bigger bodies and he runs around blocks. … For a big, strong guy, he’s nowhere near as strong at the point of attack as I thought he’d be.
Quote: It cracks me up that you still have us taking Burfict in the first round.
Oh my Gosh, what was I thinking!!! Not sure why you posted what Mayock thinks? Like it has some bearing on what I think. I really don't care what Mayock thinks and I highly doubt that Heckert cares either. Sometimes you have to use common sense and your own Brains. Some of you look at these Mock drafters like the bible. It's just a reference. Just because Mayock said that mean's squat. More Mocks than not have him going to the Ravens at 29 anyway. Yep, I still maintain he is a first round talent..Kiper had him ranked 15th last I checked but that doesn't matter either..The only thing that matters is where the team that drafts him has him ranked.
Heckert has already proven that he uses his own board..He selected Hardesty and I think Phil Taylor and Ward..I don't think any of the Draft Mockers had any of those guys ranked where we took them. Even a guy like Jordan Cameron..
I am suprised that is all you have to add to my previous post. I offered reasons I think moving down and an option different than going offense and instead strengthening the D and why I think it will help us be more competetive in the division and all you add is about a player that Mayock recently criticized. Selecting Burfict in the first is not as outlandish as some of you make it out to be. It might not be the player you like but that is your opinion. There is already a Burfict thread which you referenced so let's not make this another one. Here is a counter reference for fun. Walter Football Reference
Strengths: Sideline-to-sideline speed Quickness to the hole Fabulous closing speed Tough run defender Has the ability to take on and shed blocks Good instincts Tackling technique Ideal size Plays with shear violence Hard hitter Quick feet Strong pass defender Understands zone concepts Adept at reading quarterback's eyes Gets good depth in his zone drops Fabulous blitzer Plays with a mean streak Ability to produce game-changing plays Driven competitor
Weaknesses: Underwhelming junior season Overly aggressive at times Consistently draws penalties Needs more self control At his size, could get stiff as he ages
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 02/19/1206:44 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Like it has some bearing on what I think. I really don't care what Mayock thinks and I highly doubt that Heckert cares either. Sometimes you have to use common sense and your own Brains. Some of you look at these Mock drafters like the bible. It's just a reference. Just because Mayock said that mean's squat. More Mocks than not have him going to the Ravens at 29 anyway. Yep, I still maintain he is a first round talent..Kiper had him ranked 15th last I checked but that doesn't matter either..The only thing that matters is where the team that drafts him has him ranked.