|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075 |
I try to be irrelavant as I can so that Otto has something to talk about  Like I said, I don't know that there is anything to it. But it did seem like they were all reading from the same playbook..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Quote:
Quote:
hey, a civil dissenting opinion. I didn't realize those were allowed here.
They aren't, Mours being banned for being too nice
Here's a kinda dumb question..
Last week during the an interview with Trivisonno, Randy Lerner was asked about Colt McCoy and if he was the guy. Randy hemmed and hawwed a little and made a comment like we have to solve that issue (paraphrasing)
Anyway, the indication was that Randy didn't think Colt was THE guy.
I've heard tell that Shurmur hasn't exactly been overwhelming in his support of Colt and Holmgren isn't saying super positive things either. I don't remember what, if anything Heckert said.
So, to all outward appearences, it looks like the powers that be aren't big fans of the Coltster.
Fair enough. But here's my question, if they aren't big on Colt, would they say it out loud? I mean, wouldn't they hold that close to the vest. If for no other reason than not to taint a potential trade at some point that could include Colt.
Or, what if they are blowing smoke in order to throw off other teams regarding the draft or maybe even FA?
I haven't fully fleshed this out in my mind so I won't be surprised if everyone just jumps out and calls me a dummy... I can take..
but the very fact that they are all singing the same tune could just as easily mean they love Colt.
Just some food for thought....Anyone hungry? 
Bolded - of course not. What are they going to say? Good organizations don't blast the quality of their players in the media and I wouldn't expect our front office or coaches to either. Instead they will say stuff like "he did some good things", or "there were other problems with the offense besides the quarterback" and that sort of stuff, and it's true to a certain extent, but they're not going to come out and just say that they don't think Colt is a good enough starting quarterback and they want to upgrade.
Actions speak louder than words. He was the unquestioned starter going into this season, and that has been revoked going into next year. Now we just have to see how free agency and the draft will unfold.
GM speak means almost nothing to me and I don't even see how the Browns could pull off a smoke screen anyway because 31 other teams know that we are looking for a QB, regardless of what comes out of Berea.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075 |
I think that's kinda the point. Teams don't generally bad mouth thier own guys in public. Holmgren isn't known for doing that, Lerner never speaks so who knows and Shurmur doesn't seem the type either.
Yet they've all been less than flattering when speaking of Colt McCoy.
Like I said, there probably isn't anything there to read into it, but it's just a little odd I think...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445 |
Quote:
I think that's kinda the point. Teams don't generally bad mouth thier own guys in public. Holmgren isn't known for doing that, Lerner never speaks so who knows and Shurmur doesn't seem the type either.
Yet they've all been less than flattering when speaking of Colt McCoy.
Like I said, there probably isn't anything there to read into it, but it's just a little odd I think...
My opinion is that they just don't think he is very good and they are trying to be as courteous and polite about it as possible. However, they aren't going to go too much out of their way to heap overly effusive praise on him when they are probably going to be drafting a QB in a few months. Going too far in that direction would make them look bad as well.
That's just my read, I'm sure plenty will disagree...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,857
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,857 |
Watched the video. What I liked was how effortlessly he throws the ball. What I would have liked to have seen was a back shoulder throw or two. Probably wasn't a part of there offense or just didn't make the highlight reel.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
Pre-Heckert I thought the GMs were morons which made draft day much more trying/questionable.
I still think GM's are morons...Heckert has proven already he is a moron...see his "brilliant" trade up for Montario Hardesty...he actually gave up picks for that bum...the dude is a bum....he has no speed, no burst, gets arm tackled...is slow...if Heckert thought he was a good player...well....we may be in trouble....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
I still think GM's are morons...Heckert has proven already he is a moron...see his "brilliant" trade up for Montario Hardesty...he actually gave up picks for that bum...the dude is a bum....he has no speed, no burst, gets arm tackled...is slow...if Heckert thought he was a good player...well....we may be in trouble....
He looked good in preseason before injuring his knee again.
This year he didn't look too good, and he missed significant time too. So, I'm definitely interested in replacing him.
But the pick up wasn't THAT bad. He was a very good college player and before his most recent injury, he looked good. At this point, I just don't trust him, even if he comes back this year stronger than last year.
I have no faith that he can stay healthy
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,901 |
Quote:
Quote:
Pre-Heckert I thought the GMs were morons which made draft day much more trying/questionable.
I still think GM's are morons...Heckert has proven already he is a moron...see his "brilliant" trade up for Montario Hardesty...he actually gave up picks for that bum...the dude is a bum....he has no speed, no burst, gets arm tackled...is slow...if Heckert thought he was a good player...well....we may be in trouble....
KoB...so Heckert is a bum, according to you?
If a GM is not perfect on his draft picks, he is a bum...right?
Few years ago, I believe it was 2007, the Packers used their 1st rounder (#16) to draft a DT out of Tennessee...Justin Harrell. By the end of the 2010 season, Harrell had participated in just 14 regular season games over four seasons. He was often injured and never played to his potential and was released by the Packers prior to the beginning of the 2011 season.
...dude was a total bust...guess that makes Ted Thompson, the Packers GM a bum, according to your standards, right?
BTW, Ted Thompson is the GM who built the Packers team that won the Super Bowl last season and the team that went 15-1 in the regular season in 2011...
...but Ted Thompson is a bum, according to you... 
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
Quote:
Here's a kinda dumb question..
Oh, my.....ya know when you lob one up like that it takes all the control I've got not to hit it outta the park...
Anyway, assuming that we do take a QB I'm leaning more and more towards Mourg's position.
RG3 is gonna be a really good QB. But more and more I believe that it would be harder (to be that really good QB) in the system the Browns are (and will continue to) run. And I've always believed that with his similarity to Vick's game he'll spend a fair chunk of time on the bench healing each season.
Tannehill, on the other hand, seems to be the prototype the FO would be looking for if they are indeed looking to shuffle Colt off to the bench. Assuming that to be the case the question then becomes where will he be taken? Can we reasonably expect him to be there with our 2nd first round pick? If not, how far up would we have to move to safely snare him?
I checked a half dozen mock draft sites and Tannehill is going anywhere from 9th to the top of the 2nd round. I guess this is why it's wise to wait until FA is well under way to be hazarding a guess as to what will actually happen.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075 |
I keep readng that this guy is a prototype, that guy is a prototype.. OK,, what's a prototypical QB, from a physical standpoint specifically for the WCO..
Let's start with Height and Weight
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I like when people don't really show any opinion, but demand that other people who actually do show their opinions qualify those opinions to the nth degree...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Prototype QB size in any scheme is about 6'4"-6'5" 230-240 pounds.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445 |
This is at every single person that makes this statement...
"If RGIII is there at 4 take him but do not trade up for him"...
That is the most backassward thinking I think I've ever seen...And sifting through the ones actually saying it...It's showing those are the ones who don't value a QB very high...It's SAD...
Look people...We have the 22nd pick in this draft...A pick we wouldn't have if not for the trade last year...
This is what you're saying...In a nutshell...
Obviously u would be OK with RGIII at 4...So that tells me that u think he would come to Cleveland and be the QB of the future for the next 10+ years...U do not take a QB at 4 if u DON'T think that...Yet in the same breath u say DO NOT move to 2 or 3 to secure this same QB that u think would be the future for the next 10+ years...
If our FO thinks that way they need to be FIRED ON THE SPOT...
That is the most illogical thinking anyone could remotely come up with...
IF we determine RGIII is worthy of our pick at 4...That tells u that we have determined he is worthy of being the future of this team for the next 10+ years...I don't care if we have him RANKED at 4...U move up if u think u have to in order to not let him get away...Simply because he's at the most important position on the field...PERIOD...
We r way too high up in this draft...And have way too much ammo...To PASS on the opportunity to secure the face of a franchise...IF we like RGIII that much and sit at 4...And we lose out to anyone else moving ahead of us...We have incompetence running the show here...
Take him at 4 but DO NOT move up for him is close to the dumbest thing one could think...
Go Browns!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,812
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,812 |
I agree.
The problem is most of the fan base is accustomed and excited about draft picks more than they are about actually having a good team with good players. It's what they have grown up with.
We suck, but buddy, we have some draft picks!
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,370 |
Quote:
This is at every single person that makes this statement...
"If RGIII is there at 4 take him but do not trade up for him"...
That is the most backassward thinking I think I've ever seen...And sifting through the ones actually saying it...It's showing those are the ones who don't value a QB very high...It's SAD...
Look people...We have the 22nd pick in this draft...A pick we wouldn't have if not for the trade last year...
This is what you're saying...In a nutshell...
Obviously u would be OK with RGIII at 4...So that tells me that u think he would come to Cleveland and be the QB of the future for the next 10+ years...U do not take a QB at 4 if u DON'T think that...Yet in the same breath u say DO NOT move to 2 or 3 to secure this same QB that u think would be the future for the next 10+ years...
If our FO thinks that way they need to be FIRED ON THE SPOT...
That is the most illogical thinking anyone could remotely come up with...
IF we determine RGIII is worthy of our pick at 4...That tells u that we have determined he is worthy of being the future of this team for the next 10+ years...I don't care if we have him RANKED at 4...U move up if u think u have to in order to not let him get away...Simply because he's at the most important position on the field...PERIOD...
We r way too high up in this draft...And have way too much ammo...To PASS on the opportunity to secure the face of a franchise...IF we like RGIII that much and sit at 4...And we lose out to anyone else moving ahead of us...We have incompetence running the show here...
Take him at 4 but DO NOT move up for him is close to the dumbest thing one could think...
I'm not in favor of drafting RG3 at all and you're explaining exactly why I think that a trade back is the preferred option with the FO but that they could be standing pat and selecting someone else.
Truth is that if the FO is convinced that RG3 is the man that will do what you say, then they would move up to get him. They might also think that he'll be there at #4 and that no other teams are looking to trade up to draft him. Personally, I still don't think that he's even on the Browns radar.
Tony Rizzo said yesterday on ESPN Cleveland that his source says that the Browns were aggressively looking at the QBs at the Senior Bowl. Maybe that means they're looking at a QB to draft - but that it isn't RG3.
It's going to be an interesting few months to say the least.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075 |
Quote:
I like when people don't really show any opinion, but demand that other people who actually do show their opinions qualify those opinions to the nth degree...
I'm not exactly sure how to take that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075 |
Quote:
Prototype QB size in any scheme is about 6'4"-6'5" 230-240 pounds.
THanks,, that's a reference point.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 323 |
Quote:
This is at every single person that makes this statement...
Obviously u would be OK with RGIII at 4...So that tells me that u think he would come to Cleveland and be the QB of the future for the next 10+ years...
very good job of starting off a retort with a huge assumption that is pivital in making your point stand.
Quote:
Yet in the same breath u say DO NOT move to 2 or 3 to secure this same QB that u think would be the future for the next 10+ years...
it surely couldnt be as simple as the added value of extra picks...could it?
seriously? this post is very comical. you go straight from creating your own assumptions based on others opinions, effectively put words in their mouth, then proceed to make another assumption leading to your ultimate conclusion.
know where you went wrong? pretty easy really.....it doesn't matter what one THINKS about what the symbolism behind drafting any player at any position is. you think franchise guy for 10 years, i think its merely taking a shot at a franchise guy.
if thats not enough....you then assume value at 4 = value of a trade up. this "logic" is so not even worth spending ample time on. funny tho....
your real point that the extra value of extra picks to move up is minute compared to the total value involved is a value discussion....but how you present that argument does not do it justice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
There are more than a few that just dont believe he is worth taking in the top 10. Undersized running QB out of the spread that takes a lot of hits just doesn't spell franchise imho at least not for long.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543 |
I can kind of see both sides of this one. If they see Griffin as a 10-15 year solution at QB then he's worth the whole draft. We haven't had that in decades. If he's "iffy +", then he might be worth the 4, taking a chance that he might be that guy, but not worth risking anything more than that. Personally I think that he's a star waiting to happen. I was watching the pass plays from the Alamo Bowl, and heard "RG3 throws to Norwood" ......... and thinking to myself "That would work this fall too" . (Jordan Norwood's father is a coach at Baylor, and his brother is a freshman)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,632
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,632 |
Quote:
This is at every single person that makes this statement...
"If RGIII is there at 4 take him but do not trade up for him"...
That is the most backassward thinking I think I've ever seen...And sifting through the ones actually saying it...It's showing those are the ones who don't value a QB very high...It's SAD...
Look people...We have the 22nd pick in this draft...A pick we wouldn't have if not for the trade last year...
This is what you're saying...In a nutshell...
Obviously u would be OK with RGIII at 4...So that tells me that u think he would come to Cleveland and be the QB of the future for the next 10+ years...U do not take a QB at 4 if u DON'T think that...Yet in the same breath u say DO NOT move to 2 or 3 to secure this same QB that u think would be the future for the next 10+ years...
If our FO thinks that way they need to be FIRED ON THE SPOT...
That is the most illogical thinking anyone could remotely come up with...
IF we determine RGIII is worthy of our pick at 4...That tells u that we have determined he is worthy of being the future of this team for the next 10+ years...I don't care if we have him RANKED at 4...U move up if u think u have to in order to not let him get away...Simply because he's at the most important position on the field...PERIOD...
We r way too high up in this draft...And have way too much ammo...To PASS on the opportunity to secure the face of a franchise...IF we like RGIII that much and sit at 4...And we lose out to anyone else moving ahead of us...We have incompetence running the show here...
Take him at 4 but DO NOT move up for him is close to the dumbest thing one could think...
If you're trading the farm for a QB, I hope it's Luck.
If we do take RG3 (and I hope we don't) then don't invest additional picks to do it.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 01/31/12 10:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556 |
Colts hiring Bruce Arians will make them think long and hard about RG3 at #1. I gotta say, the kid was made to run a vertical stretch offense. I do have less value on RG3 in this system but if we were running Chud's O or Arians O, I would want RG3 to run it over luck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
I agree.
The problem is most of the fan base is accustomed and excited about draft picks more than they are about actually having a good team with good players. It's what they have grown up with.
We suck, but buddy, we have some draft picks!
This is the same mentality that leads people to not value the decent players that we DO have.. in the past few years we have seen.. Cribbs? Let him walk... DQ? Let him walk... Hillis? Let him walk ... basically if you aren't Joe Thomas or Joe Haden, then you are expendable. 
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,075 |
Just a question for you DnD/.. is it that you think all it will take is our 4th and our 22nd to move up to get him?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448 |
Quote:
Colts hiring Bruce Arians will make them think long and hard about RG3 at #1. I gotta say, the kid was made to run a vertical stretch offense. I do have less value on RG3 in this system but if we were running Chud's O or Arians O, I would want RG3 to run it over luck.
Excellent point .. Boy do I wish we had Chud ! .. Talk about exciting football with RG3 and Chud ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I agree.
The problem is most of the fan base is accustomed and excited about draft picks more than they are about actually having a good team with good players. It's what they have grown up with.
We suck, but buddy, we have some draft picks!
hehe...sarcasm is one of life's little joys.
Dayton has a fair point, but only if you're truly committeed to Griffin and going all-in on him as the absolute way to fix the position.
There is another angle, which is one of essentially hedging bets. The best way to express that is to say we should trade our entire draft for Griffin. I'm sure that point makes itself. .
I can make a good argument for not spending picks to move up since the rest of the team has so many holes.
If I saw Griffin as the lock that Luck is, that'd be one thing, but as much as I like Griffin, he comes with warts. That makes for a shade of gray for each and every person. Frankly, I believe as of this moment, I'm good taking him at 4, but I wouldn't give up that 22 to move up. That's just how I would hedge my bet.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Is there a none zero chance the Colts take RGIII? Quote:
“Guys like that come along so rarely,” Irsay said on Oct. 10 at an NFL owners meeting in Houston, referring to Manning and perceived No. 1 overall pick Andrew Luck (although Irsay has since indicated that Robert Griffin III could also be the selection). “Even if that means that guy sits for three or four years, you’d certainly think about taking him … you see what Green Bay did with [Brett] Favre and [Aaron] Rodgers and you’d like to be able to do the same thing.”
If Manning were healthy, which I don't think he is/will be, I could see the Colts going with RGIII. Imagine the deal the Rams would get if Luck somehow wasn't picked #1.
Link
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,728 |
As should be noted...I am not a fan of RG3 and there's no way I'd take him in the top half of the draft. He's a project and a boom/bust type. I don't like his throwing motion either. To add...I think his #1 asset is his athletic ability in the open field and his speed. I think that's also his #1 Wart. I watched the Texas Tech game live and saw this hit. Let's just say this is not an anomoly and he's going to take punishment in the NFL playing like this. Just ask Mike Vick. Click Here for Story and Video
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I don't even have to watch the clip to know what you're talking about. He got hit twice in the same drive. Both times his head slammed against the turf. There were about 5 players that came up groggy after their heads hit the turf that game. there really seem to be an awful lot of concussions in games at the house that Jerry built.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543 |
I would give up 4 plus 22 to get him ...... but I really think that it's a good possibility that 4 plus our 2nd ...... and maybe a mid round pick next year could get it done.
One thing is for sure ..... we have more ammunition to move up that almost anyone else. We also can offer a spot in the draft that will allow a team like St Louis to still get their guy.
I'm almost certain that we can get RG3 if we want him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
I agree that #4 + #37 should be enough. Washington is in the 2nd best spot to nab him and they can only offer #6 + #39. Trading next years 1st round pick is no better than #39, so unless they are willing to give-up all 3, then we should be able to trade-up if we would like to (and if they are willing, then we walk away).
Myself, I would prefer to sit tight at #4 and take what falls to us there because I see enough kinks in the RGIII armour that I'm not willing to give up that pick (I like him, but there is still significant risk in him).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543 |
He is a higher risk/higher reward player.
I would do whatever I could, within reason, to get him. We desperately need a QB. He looks like he could not only be a good one, but a great one. I think that we have to take that chance while we have the opportunity to do so. We need something to shake up this team.
Plus, this isn't a kid who went into an established winning program and "maintained". He helped turn Baylor around. He has that mindset of not getting down at the first sign of trouble. I think we need some of that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,217
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,217 |
Quote:
As should be noted...I am not a fan of RG3 and there's no way I'd take him in the top half of the draft. He's a project and a boom/bust type. I don't like his throwing motion either.
To add...I think his #1 asset is his athletic ability in the open field and his speed. I think that's also his #1 Wart.
Actually, his biggest asset as far as the Draft is concerned is that he just happens to be the next best guy after some kid named Luck.
He wasn't barely talked about by anyone until pretty much every other QB decided to stick around another year..... so, now everyone's on his jock because he's what's left.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Quote:
Quote:
As should be noted...I am not a fan of RG3 and there's no way I'd take him in the top half of the draft. He's a project and a boom/bust type. I don't like his throwing motion either.
To add...I think his #1 asset is his athletic ability in the open field and his speed. I think that's also his #1 Wart.
Actually, his biggest asset as far as the Draft is concerned is that he just happens to be the next best guy after some kid named Luck.
He wasn't barely talked about by anyone until pretty much every other QB decided to stick around another year..... so, now everyone's on his jock because he's what's left.
I loved him when he was considered a 2nd round prospect and still liked him alot as a mid-1st round prospect. I'm more skeptical at #4 but understand it.
Top loved Barkley, but CleveSteve loved RGIII (those were the 2 most vocal on each side). I think it was pretty well evenly split who people liked each as the guy behind Luck. I fell more on the RGIII side because Barkley floats those long balls too much and he just never came off to me as overly impressive watching him play.
nationally, he was talked about a bit in September (the TCU game?), but he played for Baylor so until he continued to put up pinball numbers week after week after week, he didn't get the attention.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
Colts hiring Bruce Arians will make them think long and hard about RG3 at #1. I gotta say, the kid was made to run a vertical stretch offense. I do have less value on RG3 in this system but if we were running Chud's O or Arians O, I would want RG3 to run it over luck.
This possibility (albeit insanely remote) is just one of the reasons why I'm OK with trading up to #2 well before the draft like San Diego did in 1998 (so long as Washington/Miami don't fill their QB holes in the off-season). RGIII may not be the prototypical WCO QB but he can definitely excel in the system. If we view him as a potential franchise QB, we need to make sure we get him.
Trading up to #2 ensures that we get a franchise QB regardless of the situation. It takes all the guesswork out of the draft for us, ensures that we get our guy and lets us attack FA in a targeted manner. Eliminating the risk of having our guy get picked ahead of us (again) like with Berry in 2010 and Green/Peterson in 2011 is well worth it, especially when talking about the QB position (with other teams positioned to move up) and trading what amounts to an extra draft pick. It's highly unlikely that the player we get at #22 or #37 is worth losing out on a franchise QB should RGIII become one.
Plus... there's always the ridiculous longshot. As you said, RGIII fits a vertical offense better than Luck and Irsay seems absolutely hellbent on going through a meticulous process to make sure he takes the right guy. He's not going to go through it all and find out RGIII is a punk like he did with Leaf... if anything, he'll like RGIII even more when learning about him. If for whatever reason Irsay/Grigson decide to go with RGIII over Luck, Luck refuses to play for Indy, etc. we'll be sitting in a position to benefit immensely instead of a position to scramble with the rest of the league in need of a QB trying to move up to #2 and paying through the nose. Again, it's probably a 1% scenario but it doesn't hurt the case.
I know it's entirely possible to roll the dice in a big way and end up with RGIII at #4 in the end but if Heckert a) wants him and b) has serious doubts that he'll be there, I'd make the move. Whether or not we're in position to draft a potential franchise QB is not something to be gambled with IMO.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,812
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,812 |
Quote:
Quote:
I agree.
The problem is most of the fan base is accustomed and excited about draft picks more than they are about actually having a good team with good players. It's what they have grown up with.
We suck, but buddy, we have some draft picks!
hehe...sarcasm is one of life's little joys.
Dayton has a fair point, but only if you're truly committeed to Griffin and going all-in on him as the absolute way to fix the position.
There is another angle, which is one of essentially hedging bets. The best way to express that is to say we should trade our entire draft for Griffin. I'm sure that point makes itself. .
I can make a good argument for not spending picks to move up since the rest of the team has so many holes.
If I saw Griffin as the lock that Luck is, that'd be one thing, but as much as I like Griffin, he comes with warts. That makes for a shade of gray for each and every person. Frankly, I believe as of this moment, I'm good taking him at 4, but I wouldn't give up that 22 to move up. That's just how I would hedge my bet.
No doubt that is if Homie and Heck decide RG3 is the guy we want. If they decide that, they have to do what it takes to get him and protect the position. I thought I tried to make that clear at some point in these discussions.
The problem with me and message boards is I tend to continue a point, be it 25 posts back, or even from a different thread. Sometimes that gets lost in translation.
I long ago quit trying to use my opinion on who we should draft. The bottom line is I don't have a clue( and neither do most else) who would be the best player for us, so I am forced to trust what Homie and heck think. Unless they just pull some totally crazy pick off the board...."with the 4th pick of the 1st round, the Browns select Joe Schmoe, punter from Slippery Rock"...I am not going to say it was a bad pick. I might question it, but hey, that's what they are paid for. Right??
Again, this isn't so much to pimp RG3, even though I have less fear of spread, running QB's then do some others.
I'd be good if we took Claiborne. He is solid, has little bust factor, and would make a difference. Meets my requirements.
So as far as moving up, I agree, I don't want to move up, but I sure as heck would if he was the guy I really wanted and had even a inkling we might not get him without doing so.
To me, it's kind of like asking that hot chick out on a date. Maybe nobody is going to ask her and you can wait until Thursday night for a Saturday date, but if you are really hot on the idea, maybe you better ask on Tuesday.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,543 |
Quote:
I long ago quit trying to use my opinion on who we should draft. The bottom line is I don't have a clue( and neither do most else) who would be the best player for us, so I am forced to trust what Homie and heck think.
Most of us have opinions ..... just like we have opinions on which players should start ..... what plays we should run ...... what coaches we should hire ..... what philosophy we should follow .... etc.
Of course they are just opinions. Some are more educated opinions than others ...... and sometimes people are more right than the so called experts this team has hired over the years.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,812
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,812 |
Sounds like you are talking about me. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
He's sure not talking about anyone that wants Griffin.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
For those who think we should trade up.. Do you think the Rams would offer a "discounted" rate since Shurmur came from the Rams organization. 
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Steve Wyche of NFL.com says league
sources have us going Griffin
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Heldawg/rgiii2.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)