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I will also, again, say that Tony deserved some sort of disciplinary action for his "tweet". But pulling him from the Browns beat was a massive overreaction that can only be attributed to the pressure they were receiving from the Browns.
BS.
When your integrity is compromised, you're done.
As a writer, you cannot show bias. Grossi showed bias. His integrity was compromised. There was no other choice than to fire him.
Case closed.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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"In another area, it would be an obvious call," said Fladung. "What if the reporter covering City Hall called the mayor pathetic and irrelevant? What if a reporter in the Columbus bureau said that about the governor? They would be removed from the beat immediately. It's the same with this situation."
That's really all that needs to be said here.
Also I can 100% guarantee that the PD and Browns at least talked back channels on this.
Because of parallel situations with which I'm familiar, my best guess as to how this went down is:
Grossi nearly has a heart attack when he realizes what he did.
Grossi contact superiors to inform because he doesn't want to be summarily fired.
Superiors discuss options
Option to fire is among other things discussed with internal legal or retained PD counsel.
Lawyers need a few days to advise management about possible options.
Best option is to reassign instead of fire.
In those few days PD has discussions with Lerner and Browns apologizing with tail between legs.
Grossi is reassigned ... to Siberia?
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Well, he hasn't actually been fired. And I am well aware that the PD had to do something. I'm just saying I believe that removing him from Browns coverage entirely was an overreaction.
Also, as has been noted by others as well as the PD themselves, columnists are afforded some leeway in offering opinions. While Tony is a beat reporter he also is paid to offer opinions in his "Hey, Tony" column, on the STO shows he is on and on the PD-sponsored Twitter feed. So it's more than a little disingenuous to get all huffy when he screws up and offers an opinion that more than one person on here has posted in the past. An opinion which, by the way, I do not totally agree with. And an opinion that everyone who was closely involved has said was made in a joking manner and was never meant for public consumption.
I also find it curious that while more than one poster has congratulated him on his continual feud with Art Modell these same people are all up in arms when he fires a broadside at the current guardian of the Orange.
Seriously, you guys aren't gonna change my mind in this matter and I'm not gonna change yours. That doesn't make any of us wrong. Even though I know some of you only see things in black and white, right or wrong. The world just doesn't work that way all the time.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Seriously, you guys aren't gonna change my mind in this matter and I'm not gonna change yours. That doesn't make any of us wrong. Even though I know some of you only see things in black and white, right or wrong. The world just doesn't work that way all the time.
Here's a little pablum for you... I agree with that comment.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I am not sure, but this might be the video that will be on Channel 3 at 11:35 this evening.. Not sure of that. Still, fairly interesting take a view http://www.wkyc.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=227440
#GMSTRONG
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Starting with the Question at 4:05
"I did not have contact with the Browns nor did any news room editor that I'm aware of"
Funny choice of words. Ultra-specific.
To me (opinion alert!) this says PD senior management had conversations with the Browns that he is well aware of.
Just readin' the tea leaves how I read em'.
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Or, it could be as simple as: The top guys at the paper thought "hey, this could end up being a serious problem for Tony as far as getting any insight from anyone in the Browns organization going forward. Tony might still be credentialed, but there's a chance no one will talk openly with him, due to orders from the Browns organization. Let's take him off the beat in order to protect our best interests."
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The Browns can't order players to not talk to reporters.
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The Browns can't order players to not talk to reporters.
Of course not.
And the Browns can't order the plain dealer to re-assign someone either.
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To me (opinion alert!) this says PD senior management had conversations with the Browns that he is well aware of.
or it may mean that nobody at the PD spoke to a Browns Rep.
it's pretty much what I said it was a few days ago. Grossis actions put his ability to be accepted as objective in question.
I thought that donovan, who admitted to being a friend of Grossi, was respectful, but hit him hard enough to make him sweat a little. in the end, I felt as if what I originally thought is what it turns out to be.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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So what?
So what is that you don't want to be the cause of that stress if you are hoping to get answers from them for tough questions.
If you say that about me and then ask me a question about why I did something I'd answer you with "Screw you, that's why."
You can't alienate the people from you from whom you make your living.
#gmstrong
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I believe so I remembered it after reading it here had totally forgot about that before. The PD gave him a 2nd chance and once again he blew it. Not to much can be said in his defense IMHO.
I know that the talking heads here on local radio where trying to drum up support for him being removed but I feel thats just them sticking up for 1 of their own and wanting to be able to spout off with no consequenses for their actions.
I had to laugh when their best defense was "well the browns were bad what should he say?" Well saying the Browns are bad is ok it's being a punk because Randy did an interview with someone else instead of you then saying what he did is what got him removed from being the beat reporter.
Hes always had a bad rap against the Browns now its gone from 1 owner to another so I think we can all move along, let him do so as well, I personally wish they would have canned him.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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I will also, again, say that Tony deserved some sort of disciplinary action for his "tweet". But pulling him from the Browns beat was a massive overreaction that can only be attributed to the pressure they were receiving from the Browns.
BS.
When your integrity is compromised, you're done.
As a writer, you cannot show bias. Grossi showed bias. His integrity was compromised. There was no other choice than to fire him.
Case closed.
A+1 Toad and some of know that you mean fired as beat the senior beat writer for the Browns.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Hes always had a bad rap against the Browns now its gone from 1 owner to another so I think we can all move along, let him do so as well, I personally wish they would have canned him.
Yeah, he's stayed here for over 20 years because he was just waiting to rip another Browns owner.
That's so laughable I don't even know how to respond......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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how about trying with something intelligent? Because your not able to do that perhaps work on reading what people write. Go back read my post real slow and you will see I said the BROWNS even in your quoted section. So you can take your and continue to look a fool.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Yeah, he's stayed here for over 20 years because he was just waiting to rip another Browns owner.
That's so laughable I don't even know how to respond......
27 years actually.
And, after 27 years, I can see how he thought he was bigger and better than the team he was covering. He was wrong.
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I worked in journalism for 8 years, and I have to say that I was taught that news stories should answer the 5Ws and an H. Who, What, When, Where, Why and How. In other words... just the facts. It was drummed into us as reporters, you write about the facts. The editorials go on the Editorial Page, other opinions are left for the columnists.
Tony Grossi was a beat writer, a reporter, and was assigned to the Browns to write news stories. His opinon of Randy Lerner had no business being tweated, or being put out as an opinion, as long as he was representing the Plain Dealer. I realize that his opinion went over the interent accidentally, but when he put in an opinion, his integrety as a reporter, someone who writes about the facts was called into question. His stories would be considered biased, because readers would wonder if Grossi's opinion of Randy Lerner biased his reporting.
In the "Old Days," you had an editor who read your stories, and edited out "opinions." In today's social media age, a reporter must edit himself, something that Tony Grossi did not do.
The Plain Dealer clearly had no choice. Grossi had to be reassigned.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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The bottom line is that he screwed the pooch and had to take the medicine......just like all of the players, coaches and front office people he dispensed the medicine to over the years via the press. I don't really care if the Browns contacted the PD. It doesn't matter....it's the nature of the business. I just take some satisfaction in seeing the shoe on the other foot for a change.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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wow that is alot like sales.
But to your point I agree in the old days this would have never been published and today with the media as it is reporters need to edit themselves.
Good post I totally agree.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
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So what?
So what is that you don't want to be the cause of that stress if you are hoping to get answers from them for tough questions.
If you say that about me and then ask me a question about why I did something I'd answer you with "Screw you, that's why."
You can't alienate the people from you from whom you make your living.
Who did he say anything about that he might be asking questions of?
Eh, why bother. Who really cares about anything that Tony Grossi might have said, other than Thom Fladung apparently.
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not sure maybe wrong on your take or the whole conversation but I care alot about what any reporter says because until it was declared that the truth doesnt need to be present in the media I had hoped that we would get truth in reporting and not opinion or bias reporting.
I guess in the end we are all lemmings being leed over the cliff by our news sources but at least we as consumers can and should try to continue to demand they report facts not opinion or bias reports.
In the end we lose for the most part anyway. So as you said who cares what TG thinks or writes.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Maybe...I guess I just don't really care what reporters are saying about my team on a day-to-day basis. The truth gets out there sooner or later on the stuff that's truly newsworthy. But it's not as if Browns fandom will come to a screeching halt if Tony Grossi lets his feelings about Randy Lerner cloud his judgement, or Mary Kay Cabot focuses too much on Brady Quinn's bulging biceps.
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Just clicking
So I DVR'd the Sports Tonight show on Channel 3 last night and just watched it.
It was the same video I posted earlier, except that some stuff was edited out I guess because if time.
Anyway, that editor said that nobody that he knows of was contacted by the Browns about getting Grossi off the beat. Someone on here that that sounded odd.
While listening again today, Fladung (the PD Editor) mentioned the 3 people involved in the decision by name (he and two others) and he made it very clear that none of them had any contact with the browns prior to the decision to remove Grossi.
IMO, All this talk about the Browns putting pressure on the PD to remove Grossi is just that,, Talk.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Seriously, that's your big "gotcha" to me? Ooohhhh....that really hurt.
Try reading my posts in this thread. Real slow (which I'm pretty sure is the only way you and Daman can read a post). Then maybe you'll see how dopey your position really is.
Believe it or not Tony is a fan of the Browns just like you (well, not like YOU but you get the drift, I hope). He's been reporting on the Browns for over 20 years. While he has had a problem in the past it was with Art Modell. The same Art Modell that most of you have voodoo dolls of with pins stuck in it. So I'm willing to give him a pass on that one.
Does he deserve a beotch slap for being stupid and letting that tweet out to the general populace? Yes. Does he deserve to be pulled off of the Browns? Maybe a short suspension but not permanently. Not in my opinion.
You may now go back to being a knee jerk reactionary.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Well then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I have talked to Grossi on twitter alot and had to stop because he would always dis everything they did.
Never did he seem to give them credit for doing something good usually he would say I've been telling them to do that for years or something along those lines.
So hopefully now we will get a good beat writer for the Browns and Tony can do his opinion peices. I think removing him was the correct thing to do He has shown a great disdain for the owner of the team and as such cannot be objective, also because he has now shown a pattern of action having to be removed before from the beat and again doing something that warrents being removed imho it was the correct course of action.
Im not trying to convice you, Im just giving my opinion. I understand yours.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Just clicking.....I skimmed many of the recent posts and didn't notice....any word on what he will be covering??
As to this, I don't really care who covers the team. I think Grossi did a good job and his comments didn't bother me, but as was said, as a reporter your responsibilities are different from those of a columnist.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Just clicking.....I skimmed many of the recent posts and didn't notice....any word on what he will be covering??
As to this, I don't really care who covers the team. I think Grossi did a good job and his comments didn't bother me, but as was said, as a reporter your responsibilities are different from those of a columnist.
Last time he was removed from the Browns beat he covered general NFL news. I would suspect that this is what he will do again.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Just clicking.....I skimmed many of the recent posts and didn't notice....any word on what he will be covering??
As to this, I don't really care who covers the team. I think Grossi did a good job and his comments didn't bother me, but as was said, as a reporter your responsibilities are different from those of a columnist.
In the video I posted from Channel three, the papers editor wasn't clear about that.. so from what I've been able to gleen,, no firm announcment has been made...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I think Grossi did a good job and his comments didn't bother me, but as was said, as a reporter your responsibilities are different from those of a columnist.
And this is true, as far as it goes.
But one of the points that was made and that I happen to agree with is that while he is a beat reporter first and foremost he could also be legitimately considered a columnist as well. I would certainly consider his "Hey, Tony" feature every Sunday a column because he is asked HIS opinion in every question. The same could be said of his Twitter feed. The PD required him to go on Twitter to interact with the fans and their questions. Now I agree that he could get quite snarky with some of his responses. But 144 characters isn't enough to give in depth analysis so you get what you get. Besides that some of the questions/comments were just as "vile" if not worse than anything Tony wrote about Randy Lerner. And those were just the ones WE saw. God knows how bad some of the stuff was that we didn't see.
As I said before, I didn't start this string of posts to change anyone's mind. I know better than that, especially on this board. I was just tired of reading post after post treating this as if he had mailed anthrax to RL rather than making an offhand comment that was admittedly in poor taste.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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But one of the points that was made and that I happen to agree with is that while he is a beat reporter first and foremost he could also be legitimately considered a columnist as well.
But, the PD doesn't consider him a Columnist.. They consider him a Beat Writer.
And that to me, is the end of the story.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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But, the PD doesn't consider him a Columnist.. They consider him a Beat Writer.
And that to me, is the end of the story.
Thanks, Captain Obvious....LOL
Of course, they consider him not to be a columnist. That stance allows them to serve Tony up on a platter while protecting their "journalistic integrity". It's the only stance that does, quite frankly.
As far as that being the end of the story, it very well may be (at least for this coming season). I'm sure it is to you. But if you were unhappy with the Browns reporting before I cannot wait to read the whining in the future.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Basically I agree with you.
I never had a problem with Grossi and never read his stuff expecting Pulitzer Prize winning stuff unlike a few who always complain about the media being this or that.
I agree with Grossi....Lerner is pretty insignificant......Kasper Milquetoast .
I think the paper made the move they felt they had to make.
Be it in the interest of impartiality or be it in the interest of the Advertising manager, I don't know.
At any rate, I don't really care. As long as Bud Shaw is in place, I am good. I like reading him rip the team.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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But, the PD doesn't consider him a Columnist.. They consider him a Beat Writer.
And that to me, is the end of the story.
Thanks, Captain Obvious....LOL
Of course, they consider him not to be a columnist. That stance allows them to serve Tony up on a platter while protecting their "journalistic integrity". It's the only stance that does, quite frankly.
As far as that being the end of the story, it very well may be (at least for this coming season). I'm sure it is to you. But if you were unhappy with the Browns reporting before I cannot wait to read the whining in the future.
Insulting SOB...LOL
it must not be that obvious or you wouldn't try to rewrite the facts.... 
Look, grossi blew it,, he took it to a personal level, the Plain Dealer considers Tony a beat writer.. Changing the facts to suit your agenda doesn't really help you out..,
Grossi is a damn fool who make an error and now he's paying a price.
it's really that simple
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Let me ask you a question that I know you've seen many times before....Did you bother to read anything I've said in the last few days? I'm not changing any facts. I'm just stating my opinion. Just as you are. The difference is my opinion isn't colored by my intense dislike of Tony Grossi. Yours is. You're constantly whining about his writing. You have for years. The only good thing about this is we won't have to listen to that for a while. I now expect some witty retort where you repeat what I wrote then put a at the end......That'll show me......
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Let me ask you a question that I know you've seen many times before....Did you bother to read anything I've said in the last few days?
I'm not changing any facts. I'm just stating my opinion. Just as you are.
The difference is my opinion isn't colored by my intense dislike of Tony Grossi. Yours is. You're constantly whining about his writing. You have for years.
The only good thing about this is we won't have to listen to that for a while.
I now expect some witty retort where you repeat what I wrote then put a at the end......That'll show me......
You know what Otto, I kinda agree with that assessment.. We disagree about Grossi.. I doubt that's gonna change.
We seem to disagree about the punishment he's gotten.. Again, I doubt that's going to change.
Where's that leave us?
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Where's that leave us?
Well....until Tony comes back from exile, which I assume he will at some point, I guess that will leave us disagreeing about Mary Kay....... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I'm not changing any facts. I'm just stating my opinion. Just as you are
But you think your opinion is ALWAYS right just like I do. Therin lays your problem 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,099 |
J?C with aother POV here
Hey, O:
There's perhaps another reason TG was demoted... and it has nothing to do with and potential 'back-channel' stuff.
It's the simple fact that his allowing a denigrating tweet get out to the public reflects poorly on the employer for which he works.
I have a pretty public job, in a sense... so I adopted a policy many years ago, that anytime I'm out in public, I'm still on the job as ambassador for the group that employs me. Essentially, it's an extension of the household policy that I grew up under, since My Pops was a 'public figure' in our town (esssentially, he was second-in-command of our local Police Dept- amswered to only the Chief and the Mayor).
Dude.... every time I'd head to the door to go out with my friends, I'd hear My Momz call from the other room: "HEY!!! Remember your last name while you're out there..."
So... for me, it's been habit. Habit I've tried to maintain anywhere I go... and that policy extends to the cyber-world, as well. I've even advised students and friends: "DON'T post anything on facebook you wouldn't say on the radio- with your Mom listening." What that means is that even if I did think my CEO, my immediate boss or a well- moneyed patron of our organization was a total asshat, I'd never allow the public to know... and I wouldn't intimate such feelings to more than my wife and a few trusted friends in casual conversation. It's just not smart, yo.
For the most part, Grossi never really broke that rule- until now. Some of us may have been able to 'read between the lines' with the tone of some of his words, but no definitive proof was ever available (nor was it relevant)- until now. When that now-infamous tweet went out, he put his employer in a PR bind... and from their POV, something had to be done about it. As his employer, the PD chose this option among many... and I have no problem with it. It was their mess to clean, and I won't quibble about their choice of solvent.
As I see it, the Browns or Lerner or Holmy (or anyone else) really didn't have to say a single thing... the PD was on the hook to fix their own problem.
Basic fact: Dudes have been fired- yes, actually FIRED for making their employers look bad. Some have even been black-balled out of their chosen professions. Even if they broke no laws, they are still on the hook for casting a bad light on their employers... and some take the fall much worse than Grossi is being required to.
Is it unfortunate for him? Yup. Do I feel a little sorry for him? Yes again. Do I feel he's been unjustly treated by the Plain Dealer? Nope. Because in the end, I have to at least TRY to look at it from their POV.
People do dumb things all the time. Usually dumb things carry consequences. This one is Tony's to own.
Just another view,
Clemmy
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Quote:
Where's that leave us?
Well....until Tony comes back from exile, which I assume he will at some point, I guess that will leave us disagreeing about Mary Kay.......
I didn't know we disagreed on Mary Kay.. perhaps we do...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Tony Grossi - Gone too far?
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