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Legend
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Your opinion is different than mine. Therefore, you're wrong.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Hall of Famer
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My nightmare would be pulling a Viking and not getting the card turned in on time. That would be just like this organization.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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All Pro
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My Draft nightmare would be to trade up for anyone. This team needs so much more help than 1 position can offer. My ideal draft scenario would be to trade back with the Skins so they can grab RGIII for their #6 and #39 for this year and next year's second rounder. That gives us 4 picks in the top 39 and Heckert the ability to plug 4 holes on this team. 
And the next head coach is ......
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We have (4) selections in the top 67 picks, in three years if at least three of them are not big time contributing starters on this team will be my nightmare.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
My Draft nightmare would be to trade up for anyone. This team needs so much more help than 1 position can offer.
My ideal draft scenario would be to trade back with the Skins so they can grab RGIII for their #6 and #39 for this year and next year's second rounder.
That gives us 4 picks in the top 39 and Heckert the ability to plug 4 holes on this team.
Plugging our remaining holes is great but not when it means we don't patch the hole that is essential in today's NFL for teams to consistently win. How many holes do the Patriots have? They're riddled with them. I mean, they're playing Julian Edelman (QB converted to WR) at CB for pete's sake. Yet, because they have that elite QB, they're in the Super Bowl.
It would be like trying to cut a heating bill and choosing to replace 4 windows when there's a giant hole in the roof. Sure the windows are a good upgrade and definitely worth doing at some point but they probably aren't the best allocation of resources given the circumstances.
We have a Top 5 pick. We have extra assets to move if need be. There are potential elite QBs in this draft. To me, it would be an absolute shame to let other teams come away with one while we continue to search or hope and pray that our guys with few physical tools magically transform into studs.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
My Draft nightmare would be to trade up for anyone. This team needs so much more help than 1 position can offer.
My ideal draft scenario would be to trade back with the Skins so they can grab RGIII for their #6 and #39 for this year and next year's second rounder.
That gives us 4 picks in the top 39 and Heckert the ability to plug 4 holes on this team.
Plugging our remaining holes is great but not when it means we don't patch the hole that is essential in today's NFL for teams to consistently win. How many holes do the Patriots have? They're riddled with them. I mean, they're playing Julian Edelman (QB converted to WR) at CB for pete's sake. Yet, because they have that elite QB, they're in the Super Bowl.
It would be like trying to cut a heating bill and choosing to replace 4 windows when there's a giant hole in the roof. Sure the windows are a good upgrade and definitely worth doing at some point but they probably aren't the best allocation of resources given the circumstances.
We have a Top 5 pick. We have extra assets to move if need be. There are potential elite QBs in this draft. To me, it would be an absolute shame to let other teams come away with one while we continue to search or hope and pray that our guys with few physical tools magically transform into studs.
My thoughts exactly. You certainly said is better than I have.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Bengals in 1999 were offered 9 draft picks from Ditka but they said no and picked Akili Smith because they wanted that elite guy at the helm and it didn't work out for them.
If we draft RGIII he better be the guy because if he isn't it's going to hurt us real bad. No matter who we get at #4, if they turn into a legit starter for us who we passed up on makes no difference.
We passed up on Adrian Peterson, but we have Joe Thomas. Can you imagine if we passed up both of them and drafted Brady Quinn or Jamarcus Russel instead?
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Legend
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Quote:
The Bengals in 1999 were offered 9 draft picks from Ditka but they said no and picked Akili Smith because they wanted that elite guy at the helm and it didn't work out for them.
If we draft RGIII he better be the guy because if he isn't it's going to hurt us real bad. No matter who we get at #4, if they turn into a legit starter for us who we passed up on makes no difference.
We passed up on Adrian Peterson, but we have Joe Thomas. Can you imagine if we passed up both of them and drafted Brady Quinn or Jamarcus Russel instead?
Yeah, we might only win 4 or 5 games per year ......... season after season ........ 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
The Bengals in 1999 were offered 9 draft picks from Ditka but they said no and picked Akili Smith because they wanted that elite guy at the helm and it didn't work out for them.
If we draft RGIII he better be the guy because if he isn't it's going to hurt us real bad. No matter who we get at #4, if they turn into a legit starter for us who we passed up on makes no difference.
We passed up on Adrian Peterson, but we have Joe Thomas. Can you imagine if we passed up both of them and drafted Brady Quinn or Jamarcus Russel instead?
Yeah, we might only win 4 or 5 games per year ......... season after season ........
We certainly wouldn't be any better and we would not have an elite left tackle anchoring our line. But if you really want to know why we win only 4-5 games a year it's because in 2008 we had no 1st, 2nd or 3rd round picks and in 2009 we completely missed our three 2nd round picks (MoMass is a #3 at best WR IMO and not worthy of a 2nd round selection). So from 2007 - 2009 we only have Joe Thomas, Ahtyba Rubin, Alex Mack, MoMass & Maiava to show from our drafts.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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Legend
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My draft nightmare is that we have the opportunity to get a franchise QB in this draft
I think you will be living your nightmare 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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1st String
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Quote:
My Draft nightmare would be to trade up for anyone. This team needs so much more help than 1 position can offer.
My ideal draft scenario would be to trade back with the Skins so they can grab RGIII for their #6 and #39 for this year and next year's second rounder.
That gives us 4 picks in the top 39 and Heckert the ability to plug 4 holes on this team.
This. the redskins are notorius for bad deals, be like the patriots and take advantage of suckers . . . not one of them.
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Legend
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Trading up
Richardson at #4
Burfict in a Browns uniform
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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We get a call from a team wanting to move up and offering us a 1st and 3rd next year and a 1st and 4th this year and we pass. Then with both RGIII and Blackmon on the board and we dont take 1 of them because that means I was way off on my opinion of them and will be  on why we didnt make the trade.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Quote:
The Bengals in 1999 were offered 9 draft picks from Ditka but they said no and picked Akili Smith because they wanted that elite guy at the helm and it didn't work out for them.
- If someone is willing to give up a 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, future 1st and 3rd to trade up 7 slots for RGIII then sure, trade down. I don't expect to see that deal any time soon though.
- Akili Smith busted out because he was weak mentally, didn't put the time in during film study or anything else for that matter and decided that going back to San Diego and partying was a better use of his time than training with his teammates in the off-season and preparing. That's the exact opposite of RGIII. He has a great work ethic, is smart as hell and comes off as incredibly mature in interviews. That's the kind of guy who makes good on his potential.
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If we draft RGIII he better be the guy because if he isn't it's going to hurt us real bad. No matter who we get at #4, if they turn into a legit starter for us who we passed up on makes no difference.
Not if we passed up a franchise QB. Miami fans regret passing up Matt Ryan for Jake Long all the time and Matt Ryan isn't even a stud yet. Just because RGIII is a risk doesn't mean we shouldn't draft him. I really think that Browns fans in general have been so burned by busts all over the place that we're afraid to take any risks. If there's a risk worth taking it's on a QB who, if he develops, can change the position.
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We passed up on Adrian Peterson, but we have Joe Thomas. Can you imagine if we passed up both of them and drafted Brady Quinn or Jamarcus Russel instead?
JaMarcus Russell had 0 work ethic and character questions. We didn't even start to talk trade up for Quinn until pick #12 so it's clear he wasn't even in consideration in the Top 5. Plus as we learned in Cleveland, Brady didn't really have great arm strength or accuracy (let alone pocket presence).
Griffin is different than those guys. He has the arm. He has fantastic athleticism. He has smarts. He has the character. He has the work ethic.
The concern with Griffin is that he isn't coming from an NFL-style offense which means he has to adjust to playing under center, making full field reads, etc. Then again, couldn't we have said the same about Colt McCoy and plenty of other QBs as well? It requires projection to see him as a star QB at the next level which I can understand worries some people.
At some point though, you have to take a risk to land a franchise QB. What better time to do it than when we have a Top 5 pick and extra ammo? If we pass up on this chance, go to .500 and Colt isn't the answer, we're going to be left reaching for guys at the back half of the 1st or later praying we get lucky. For me at least, I'd rather roll the dice on Griffin and his huge upside than put the team in place and realize we'll always be a stud QB away from greatness.
We're... we're good?
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although I agree with most of your post I dont think the browns are going to sniff 8-8 this year. Not a chance. They have the 3rd ranked toughest schedule next year and even with RGIII they will be in prime position to draft a great QB next year. Thats why Im in the camp of use the pick for another position/ Trade down and get a 1st next year instead of RGIII but I'm not against it (drafting RGIII) either because if they think hes the guy Im on board.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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If the Browns feel he is the guy I'd rather pick RGIII if he was there at 4, I don't want to trade up.
You can talk all day long about which QB had what flaws, fact is they were rated high on peoples boards. People talked about Brady Quinn going #1, Phil Savage reportedly inquired with Oakland on trading up to #1 that year.
Fact is both are busts. Brady was concidered first round talent, we traded our second round pick in 2007 and our 1st round in 2008 for him. Instead of Brady Quinn we could have drafted Kevin Colb or Woodley in 2007 and in 2008 our first pick could of had us Chris Johnson, Felix Jones or Reshard Mendenhall.
Draft picks are precious and a team like us can waste them. We did it in the past and we are still suffering from them.
Using our #4 on RGIII is fine, trading our #4 and our #22 to get him at #2 then I hope he turns out to be a great QB for many years. It would be worth it if that happens, but the risk scares me because if he isn't a good NFL QB it will set us back. JMHO
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Legend
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There are a number of reasons that we have failed, year after year after year .....
We have changed philosophies every couple of years. Butch Davis ran a 4-3, then we went to Romeo Crennel who ran a 3-4. We then went to Eric Mangini who also ran a 3-4, but who didn't like most of Crennel's personnel. 2 years later, we went to a 4-3 again.
That means that we had 4 fairly comprehensive tear downs on defense alone in 10 or so years time. (2001-2009)
On offense we went from .....
2001: Couch
2002: Couch Holcomb
2003: Holcomb Couch
2004: Garcia McCown Holcomb
2005: Dilfer Frye
2006: Frye Anderson
2007: Anderson
2008: Anderson Quinn
2009: Quinn Anderson
2010: Delhomme Wallace McCoy
2011: McCoy Wallace
That's a lotta crap right there.
As far as leading rushers, we went from Jackson to Green to Suggs to Droughns to Lewis to Harrison to Hillis ....... just from 2001 to 2009.
We went from Davis to Crennel to Mangini to Shurmur ........
One LT has not made that much of a difference in the larger scheme of things ..... even one as talented as Joe Thomas. LT do not generally take teams to Super Bowls.
Joe Thomas has been to how many? How about Jake Long? What about D'Brickshaw Ferguson? Ryan Clady? Jordan Gross? Jason Peters? How many of these best LT playing today made the playoffs this year? 1?
It's important to have a solid OL. It's nice to have a great LT as it makes protections easier. However, it is not a position that drives great teams. Joe Thomas joined the Browns in 2007. We won 10 games that year. Since then we have won 4, 5, 5, and 4. Yippee. How much worse would we be without Thomas anchoring the left side? I don't know that we could be that much worse.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hall of Famer
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The reason for the tear downs and regime changes was because we drafted horribly and the product on the field was bad.
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Legend
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And what was the major piece missing? What is the one piece that we have chased, but never got right?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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And what was the major piece missing? What is the one piece that we have chased, but never got right?
You want to say qb.
Previous drafts prove you wrong.
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But who's to say that RGIII will be the correct piece? He could easily be another Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Cade Mcknown, David Carr or Jamarcus Russel. Or he could be a Dante Culpepper who is an average QB for us for a few years but nothing special.
As I've said, I'm no opposed to drafting him, but if I was running the draft I'm not moving up. Too much of a risk and we have too many holes to give up picks. If he was a sure thing that would be different, but RGIII is not a sure thing or he would be going #1.
He has a lot of talent and potential but until he takes a snap in the NFL then all he will be is potential.
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Legend
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with all due respect to Ytown
My biggest nightmare is that they trade a bunch of picks this year and next to move up to get Andrew Luck.
Next worst nightmare would be if they trade a bunch of picks to move up 2 spots to get RG3.
I was thinking and I'd like to amend my previous nightmare scenario
I really don't care who we draft or how we go about getting it done. I'm a fan.. nothing more.
Having said that, my nightmare is if we draft someone and they bust....
NO BUSTS.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think the only true draft "nightmare" would be getting guys who turn out to be horrible.
But if we traded back, I'd be disappointed. I get it, you get the extra pick, but at what point are we going to start going for quality over quantity? Sure we have needs. Every team does. The two teams in the Super Bowl don't have every need filled. It's the NFL.
The only situation I want to see us trade back is if we are sitting at 4, with RG3 still available, and Heckert and his people are just not sold from everything they have scouted and worked at. I'd have no problem getting an extra pick or even more to have a team move up and take him. I'm ok with that. That's why I always say I'm really curious as to what OUR guys think of RG3. I know what talking head experts think, but I would kill to know what Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur really thought of the guy.
Like I said, though, I don't think there is any nightmare scenario with this front office other than these high picks just not panning out.
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Is it so much about trading down as much as it is the value in return?
If we were to trade from #4 to #6 for nothing other than Washington's first in 2013 as well ... that might be the ammunition to play around with and get Barkely (or Tyler Wilson or Tyler Bray or whoever) next year... and it's not about delaying the future ... it's about value now.
If we value the player we could draft more than the overall value of the return on picks then you pull the trigger on the player. But ... would I accept a first rounder next year to move back two spots? Yup. Because I am only making the trade down if I don't want Griffin in the first place - the caveat is if you DO want him then you pick him. If you don't then you trade down and at #6 you would assume that Luck is gone with Kalil / Blackmon (just assumed). If Washington trades up to 6 for Griffin ... then you not only get another first rounder for passing on a guy that you don't want ... but you also are guaranteed to get either Claiborne or Richardson - two guys that you wouldn't be 'upset' with even at #4.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I don't understand why some of you are down on Richardson. Yet you say: Quote:
Drafting players that would have little to no impact on your passing offense is not my idea of building a team.
It's clear that Shurmur wants a passing offense and a good defense. If we draft a running back with a potential franchise QB, WR, or CB
Please name a potential franchise WR? No, it's not blackmon, He's not a top 10 guy and yet we want to draft him #4 because he's the best in this draft class?
Heckert knows better. The RB touches the ball more than anybody else execpt the QB, so tell me again why we should pass on a playmaker? He would get alot more touches than any WR. The greatest show on turf (rams) were able to sling it down field because they had a great RB that had to be accounted for, and he could go the distance from anywhere. Thats what we need.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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J/C
My draft nightmare would be tornadoes ravaged the area the day before, killing local folks and knocking out power, just like last year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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No, it's not blackmon, He's not a top 10 guy and yet we want to draft him #4 because he's the best in this draft class?
He's not a top 10 guy, yet nearly every mock draft I've seen has him listed as a top FIVE guy.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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OP
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Quote:
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No, it's not blackmon, He's not a top 10 guy and yet we want to draft him #4 because he's the best in this draft class?
He's not a top 10 guy, yet nearly every mock draft I've seen has him listed as a top FIVE guy.
Didn't you know that revery positions best player gets drafted high no matter how good he is?
It's only cause he's the best at that position...
Ignore a few years ago when a WR wasn't even drafted in the 1st round...
Obviously Blackmon is only this high because he's the best WR, not because he's valued at being that good or anything...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
Quote:
No, it's not blackmon, He's not a top 10 guy and yet we want to draft him #4 because he's the best in this draft class?
He's not a top 10 guy, yet nearly every mock draft I've seen has him listed as a top FIVE guy.
Every single time I put Blackmon in the top ten, I wish I weren't. He doesn't belong there.
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Legend
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But who's to say that RGIII will be the correct piece? He could easily be another Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Cade Mcknown, David Carr or Jamarcus Russel. Or he could be a Dante Culpepper who is an average QB for us for a few years but nothing special.
As I've said, I'm no opposed to drafting him, but if I was running the draft I'm not moving up. Too much of a risk and we have too many holes to give up picks. If he was a sure thing that would be different, but RGIII is not a sure thing or he would be going #1.
He has a lot of talent and potential but until he takes a snap in the NFL then all he will be is potential.
There are never guarantees when it comes to the draft. Supposedly Jamarcus Russel was a hard working kid ........ until he got paid. Then he stopped caring about football and cared about playing and eating everything in sight. You can make an educated guess, and yes, sometimes they are wrong ..... but we are in position, right now, to make a move on a franchise type QB .... and I am of the opinion that if you don't have one, you need one if you want to go anywhere ...... so you better find him. (man what a run on sentence!)
I would rather "waste" 2 or 3 picks against the chance of getting a 15 year franchise type guy who is capable of leading this team to a Super Bowl one day, than trying to draft players to fill up the roster, but who will never, ever make the same impact the QB will.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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For those who don't want Richardson at #4, why?
Running back is a dime a dozen position, where you can find a good one later in the draft/in free agency. Richardson may be good, but his talents would be wasted here, in a passing offense.
Please provide a list of the "dime a dozen" RBs we've hit on later in the draft / free agency since our return...someone who had some sustenance.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Quote:
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For those who don't want Richardson at #4, why?
Running back is a dime a dozen position, where you can find a good one later in the draft/in free agency. Richardson may be good, but his talents would be wasted here, in a passing offense.
Please provide a list of the "dime a dozen" RBs we've hit on in the draft / free agency since our return...someone who had some sustenance.
+1.....I was thinking the same thing!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
He's not a top 10 guy, yet nearly every mock draft I've seen has him listed as a top FIVE guy.
Of course that wouldn't have anything to do with this yrs. talent?
Just because he's listed as the top WR this yr. doesn't make him to be the best, if that makes sense. He is not as highly rated as some of the other WR's that have come in other yrs. Yet you want to spend a #4 on a WR who some say is not as good as a Green or Jones? Why? Just because he is rated as the best in this yr.s class? I guess I just don't like WR's drafted that high. We need speed on the outside, and he ain't got it. So we just draft a #2 WR @ #4 just to please some fans? I don't think so. RB would give us so much more options, up the middle, sweep, screen and even running out wide for a quick over the middle.
Just a thought.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I feel yer pain peen. Hope the weather is better for you folks this year. Take care
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Legend
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
I would rather "waste" 2 or 3 picks against the chance of getting a 15 year franchise type guy who is capable of leading this team to a Super Bowl one day, than trying to draft players to fill up the roster, but who will never, ever make the same impact the QB will.
Well that where we differ because IMO RGIII isn't a 15 year franchise type guy, Luck has the potential to be that guy and I'd give up our #4 and #22 and a few other picks for him, but RGIII is overhyped, if Barkley was coming out this year RGIII would probably be the third QB off the board.
If RGIII is there at #4 I'd have no problem but I'm not giving up that many picks. Not for a guy that is clearly NOT the best prospect at his position. I'd rather stay at four and if Washington wants to jump up let them. Trade with with STL to move back so they can jump up and get Blackmon and be left with either Richardson or Claiborne and then draft another player at #22.
I just don't see Heckert moving up to #2, only way IMO RGIII is a Brownie is if he is still there at #4. But I guess we will find out in April.
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Quote:
Not for a guy that is clearly NOT the best prospect at his position.
This kind of thinking has baffled me........ I don't want to trade up for RG3. I don't even know if I want him at 4.
But what does it matter if he's not the best prospect at his position? What if the two best prospects are DE's? I hope NFL GM's don't do this. Rate and rank players against everyone else... The only pick where you want to make sure you get the top guy at his position is the number 1 pick. If the 2nd best player at his position is better than everyone else at their position, then the guy might make sense to pick.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Quote:
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Not for a guy that is clearly NOT the best prospect at his position.
This kind of thinking has baffled me........ I don't want to trade up for RG3. I don't even know if I want him at 4.
But what does it matter if he's not the best prospect at his position? What if the two best prospects are DE's? I hope NFL GM's don't do this. Rate and rank players against everyone else... The only pick where you want to make sure you get the top guy at his position is the number 1 pick. If the 2nd best player at his position is better than everyone else at their position, then the guy might make sense to pick.
They don't. Otherwise Ndamukong Suh and Gerald McCoy wouldn't have gone two and three.
If Barkley were in this draft, RG3 would still be the second QB drafted. I would disagree with it, but that's what would happen.
NFL teams are in love with RG3.
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For those who don't want Richardson at #4, why?
Running back is a dime a dozen position, where you can find a good one later in the draft/in free agency. Richardson may be good, but his talents would be wasted here, in a passing offense.
Please provide a list of the "dime a dozen" RBs we've hit on later in the draft / free agency since our return...someone who had some sustenance.
Why should we limit it to just the Browns? Just because we haven't drafted one doesn't make it any less true.
How many times have we traded a 4th/5th/Bust pick for a good running back? Running Backs simply aren't a position you take in the top 5. Longevity and Availability are two of the biggest reasons for that. Combine that with the fact that we are simply not a running team, then I do not see why drafting Richardson is a good idea.
you had a good run Hank.
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Legend
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Legend
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Dime a dozen runningbacks.
Lee Suggs, James JJ Jackson, Jason Wright. Jerome Harrisson, James Davis,
Ben Gay, Josh Cribbs, William Green, Hardesty, Hillis, Mike Bell, Ogbonnaya?,
Brandon Jackson, Droughns and Jamal Lewis,
Prentice? They haven't had anymore luck finding Runningbacks then Quarterbacks, and so much for continuity.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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