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One question,, maybe you can answer it. if 1000 yard RB's are a dime a dozen, how come every team doesn't have a couple?
Because you can't have a 1000 yard rusher unless you also have an elite QB silly.. neither the Patriots or the Giants or the Packers or the Saints had a rusher with more than 700 yards..
You don't need a 1000 yard rusher to be successful any more.. you need an effective runner (or combination of runners)who can keep defenses honest, pick up short yardage, catch the ball, pick up the blitze, etc.. which is why I'm in favor of keeping Hillis, because he can do all of those things..
yebat' Putin
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you need an effective runner (or combination of runners)
That's the important part. A combination requires at least two. If Hillis isn't re-signed (and we don't draft or land in FA another starting caliber running back) then we'll have zero.
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you need an effective runner (or combination of runners)
That's the important part. A combination requires at least two. If Hillis isn't re-signed (and we don't draft or land in FA another starting caliber running back) then we'll have zero.
There is a chance that Obi or Jackson could be the second.. I still hold out a glimmer of hope for Hardesty but he is going to have to give me a good 14 solid healthy games this year before I believe he has any future with this team.
yebat' Putin
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I know some say he isn't special, but I disagree. He's pretty darn unique. I'd sign him in a heartbeat.
I couldn't agree more. I want him back.
And the next head coach is ......
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I may be in the minority here but I disagree about Hardesty. I just don't think he will ever become anything better than what he has shown. Time to lick your wounds and move on.
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I may be in the minority here but I disagree about Hardesty. I just don't think he will ever become anything better than what he has shown. Time to lick your wounds and move on.
I been saying cut him.. he's garbage.
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I may be in the minority here but I disagree about Hardesty. I just don't think he will ever become anything better than what he has shown. Time to lick your wounds and move on.
I been saying cut him.. he's garbage.
I have to admit im still on the fence with him but if they did it wouldnt bother me.
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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Yeah, still on the fence here as well, Nick. Going on the widely known understanding that a player isn't back to normal until his second season after a major knee surgery, I'm holding out a glimmer of hope on Hardesty. There is some ability there. No back was going to look good behind what we called an offensive line this season. When you march out two good players and three bad ones, well, it's hard to judge a RB. However, Hardesty probably only has one more chance to start to contribute on a regular basis.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I figure Hardesty will get that chance but I don't hold out much hope he'll be able to make a success of it. If him starting is plan A, then I hope we have a plan B and C firmly in place.
#GMSTRONG
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I figure Hardesty will get that chance but I don't hold out much hope he'll be able to make a success of it. If him starting is plan A, then I hope we have a plan B and C firmly in place.
Ogbonnaya 
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I figure Hardesty will get that chance but I don't hold out much hope he'll be able to make a success of it. If him starting is plan A, then I hope we have a plan B and C firmly in place.
If Hardesty starting is plan-A, I want a new coaching staff. 
At best he should be considered the relief back.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Not sold on Hardesty at all. Trade him, sign Hillis. We can do better, and we need better. And we need to use all backs smarter than we did. Line would be nice touch for run blocking. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I figure Hardesty will get that chance but I don't hold out much hope he'll be able to make a success of it. If him starting is plan A, then I hope we have a plan B and C firmly in place.
If Hardesty starting is plan-A, I want a new coaching staff.
At best he should be considered the relief back.
I think they are smarter than that.. the only way I see them using Hardesty is if they are forced to because of injuries..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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It would not surprise me at all if Hardesty is Plan A heading into training camp if Hillis isn't here.
What he is after training camp is anyone's guess but I don't think they drafted him to get 5 carries a game.
If Hillis is gone, and we don't take a first round RB, Hardesty will be the man. At least in the beginning.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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It would not surprise me at all if Hardesty is Plan A heading into training camp if Hillis isn't here.
What he is after training camp is anyone's guess but I don't think they drafted him to get 5 carries a game.
If Hillis is gone, and we don't take a first round RB, Hardesty will be the man. At least in the beginning.
My problem with Hardesty is that he hasn't even flashed a speck of what he could possibly do. Armond Smith has shown me more than Hardesty, and he's on PS. Obi has showed me more as well.
If Heckert can't see what most of us see.. then he is being stubborn in the fact that he just chose the wrong guy... good GM's count their losses early though and don't let that player's presence cloud your true evaluating skill.
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I don't think that Heckert is being blind or stubborn.... he's simply giving the player the benefit of the doubt on returning from an ACL injury. This was the first year back from the injury, it is the second year that the player returns to form.
Heckert doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that holds onto a player out of ego.... if Hardesty isn't cutting it this summer in pre-season, and they're not seeing what they expected of him when they drafted him, I have little doubt that Heckert won't hesitate to cut him.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't think that Heckert is being blind or stubborn.... he's simply giving the player the benefit of the doubt on returning from an ACL injury. This was the first year back from the injury, it is the second year that the player returns to form.
Heckert doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that holds onto a player out of ego.... if Hardesty isn't cutting it this summer in pre-season, and they're not seeing what they expected of him when they drafted him, I have little doubt that Heckert won't hesitate to cut him.
Thanks you save me the trouble of
re-chewing my cud. Anyways it's far to early to throw in the towel on Hardesty.
If like Little he can learn to catch the ball (by that I mean properly execute) he could be an effective weapon in the passing game, because I think that he can beat most LBers in coverage and can run WR routs as well as out of the backfield.
I never expected to see his full abilities to make moves on defenders in 2011 for the reasons you mentioned above, but I also did not anticipate him having trouble catching the ball, so there is pause for concern, but there is also a chance that it will be uncharacteristic of him moving forward.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 02/05/12 12:54 PM.
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I don't think that Heckert is being blind or stubborn.... he's simply giving the player the benefit of the doubt on returning from an ACL injury. This was the first year back from the injury, it is the second year that the player returns to form.
Heckert doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that holds onto a player out of ego.... if Hardesty isn't cutting it this summer in pre-season, and they're not seeing what they expected of him when they drafted him, I have little doubt that Heckert won't hesitate to cut him.
Damnnnn...I agree...lol...
Go Browns!!!
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Wow! We can agree in the forums! Amazing. Hardesty will need to show some more next season. I hope we see some different backfield combinations, ones without Marecic. We could be less predictable for the better. Hope Childress has some fresh ideas for the attack.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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I can only review very little, but from the 2nd half of the Titans and at Baltimore games, it appears if they can't get a passing game that's on target the runningback won't matter.
And if they keep getting outcoached and outquarterbacked the receivers won't even matter either.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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jc http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/17272...re-great-tv/rss9. The Cleveland Browns remain uncertain exactly how to handle running back Peyton Hillis. Some in the organization want to try and keep him, while others want to part ways and draft Alabama's Trent Richardson. I think the draft option will win out, but no one knows for certain just yet. If true =   
#gmstrong
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ugh.
blowing more smoke? Maybe trying to entice a trade from a QB-armed Washington or 17 and 21 Cincinnati?
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Depends on where these guys are on the draft board. Browns can go BPA with the first 3 picks and have day 1 starters in all of them. I'd be surprised if they have RGIII in the top 4 going by BPA.
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J/C
I know it's been said that a RB can be drafted anywhere, but a Trent Richardson cannot.
I'd rather re-sign Hillis than have to use a draft pick on on RB, but if he's not re-signed, I'd have no problem taking Richardson.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Problem I have with a Richardson selection in the top 5 (would be much better if we traded down and get another high pick back to compensate) is that it's be a LATERAL move...we let go a good all around RB in Hillis and waste our best pick on Richardson...how much better is our team? My answer: not much
I'd rather either keep Hillis or if his head has gotten too big let him go and sign a Tolbert in FA or BJGE
Think about it...what would be better for this team short and long term?
Richardson at RB and S.Brown at no.2 CB
or
Hillis/Tolbert/BJGE at RB and CB Claiborn at CB
It's much easier to find a decent RB in FA than an above AVG starting CB
value, value, value...Richardson would be a horrible lateral move...only scared GMs like Mangini would do stupid stuff like that picking "safe" over "value"...I won't and can't believe Heckert would consider Richardson at 4....maybe after a trade down to make up for the value loss
The worst part about this tidbit though is the perceived "split" in the higher ups of the org...I hope that NOT to be true....just let Heckert do his job...will ya please Walrus, Shurmur, Chilly....whoever? I fear more and more that Holmgren gets GM happy and starts pulling rank again...and as already shown with the selection of Colt...he has no clue
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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The Hillis thing may not really be up to us. What I mean by that, we've all heard or read reports that he's going to be asking for a lot and that that amount may not be what the Browns think he's worth.
So I suppose it could be said that he could price himself out of "OUR" market.. Then it becomes "No Choice" that we need to find another back.. Somewhere...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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I hear that game changing RB's are a dime a dozen 
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J/C
The only problem with taking a back that high is the WCO doesn't highlight backs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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RB A: In 7 years, this RB ran for 9400 yards, Scored 100 TDs, had a 4.3 Yards average, Caught 215 balls for 1500 yards and 12 TD's and an average of 7.1 yards per catch.
RB B: In 8 years, this RB rand for 7500 yards, Scored 56 TD's, had a 4.1 yards average, Caught 566 balls for 4000 yards, Scored 17 TDs for an average of 8.7 yard average..
Both of them were in the WCO for those years mentioned (they both finished thier careers elsewhere however)
That's all further I went with this, but I bet you could find more.. I think you may not be correct about how a RB is perceived or used in the WCO..
Oh,, RB A was Shaun Alexander (seahawks) and RB B was Roger Craig (49ers). But I bet you already knew that..
I didn't bother to look for anyone from Green Bay or others that played for the 49ers or Seahawks..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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The good news is that free agency is first. I like Hillis and he brings an element to the game that you just don't see in every RB so saying he is a dime a dozen is silly. I think he might price himself out of the market and only hope he doesn't sign with the Bengals or Ravens if he does bolt. I know we will not overpay, unfortunately Hillis has signed three different agents that have filled his head with clutter and it seems he is easily influenced by stardom and what his agents tell him. If he wanted to stay here he would tell his agents that and to be realistic about his worth so they can get it done. He was obviously underpaid before so he might be trying to make up for it, but went about it the wrong way last year. He was such a humble guy before and a hard worker and team guy. That seems to have changed as his agents have. So we will give him the deal we think he is worth and sit on it, the choice is his.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Id be ok with Hillis and I'd be real good with Richardson but I'd be jumping for joy with both! Talk about wearing down a Dline and keeping the D honest.
Get your WR or DE with 22.
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Id be ok with Hillis and I'd be real good with Richardson but I'd be jumping for joy with both! Talk about wearing down a Dline and keeping the D honest.
Get your WR or DE with 22.
Oh no kidding.. That would be a pretty amazing pairing.. it would have been nice if we could have counted on Hardesty., But I'm thinking we just can't..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Right...because Roger Craig was a non factor in San Frans Offense......Shaun Alexander was just a pretty chrome piece in Holmgrens Offense in Seattle...Steven Jackson was an after thought in Shurmers Offense in St. Louis....
I think you mean to say they don't highlight the running game or more specific the Power Running Game (even that may not be completely true if you remember Rathman) is not the premier focus of the offense...The runningbacks however have always been an integral part of the offense...and one thing they absolutely must have is an ability to catch the ball...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Bengals or Ravens? My fear is that he'll sign with the Steelers, who pretty much have declared Mendenhall out for season because of his ACL
#gmstrong
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Bengals or Ravens? My fear is that he'll sign with the Steelers, who pretty much have declared Mendenhall out for season because of his ACL
Yeah, I was going to put that but they have some cap issues they have to resolve first. Plus need to re-sign a feww of their guys. They do want to get back to a heavier run than pass approach though.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I still am pissed that William green didn't make it here...
So to put it into perspective.. If we lose hillis I'd be 10 x as more upset.
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I'm with Django on this one. Hopefully Hillis stays. If not, pursue a 'back in FA and draft for different positions.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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The Browns signed Brandon Jackson last year, FA from Green Bay...he hurt a toe and was out for the season.
His last season with GB, he accounted for over 1000 yds in running for 703 yds and 342 yds in pass receiving.
I realize he is somewhat of a forgotten man because of not playing last year, but he has the potential to be very productive in the WCO.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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BJAX is a 3rd down back. That's not bad as he's a good 3rd down back, but if we go into the season relying on BJAX to be our primary ball carrier then something went wrong.
#gmstrong
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Problem I have with a Richardson selection in the top 5 (would be much better if we traded down and get another high pick back to compensate) is that it's be a LATERAL move...
I don't understand all the talk about keeping Hillis OR drafting Richardson. Why not both? They are a different type of RB. Djan: How can you say it's a Lateral Move? With Hillis (I'm a big fan), You get the tough yds., and every now & again a good 10-12 yd. run. With Richardson you get a chance to score everytime he would touch the ball. Thats the difference. PH is a tough yd. back & TR is a threat to score from anywhere back. Big difference IMHO.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
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I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Cleveland Browns have renewed
interest in keeping Peyton Hillis
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