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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Daman, I'll throw this out there to everybody... but...
If a politicians sole motivation is to keep their job
and they get to keep their job by getting re-elected
and they get re-elected by getting people in their states to vote for them again
and the people vote for them again if they think they are doing a good job
and they are doing a good job if they are doing what the people want them to do
Then how is working to get re-elected NOT doing what the people want you to do?
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,084 |
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Yup,, change the system first, But does anyone think that any elected official will want it changed.
I scoff at the notion that a politicians vote is his own.
In a perfect world yes, but votes are bought all the time, because what most politicians care about the most is their job security and the power that comes with tenure in their seat.
It might only be a part of the problem, but if it's part of the problem, then it might also be in part a solution if we change the way that business is done.
LOL,, Well, I was kinda trying to draw a direct line from the original article and this topic.
If the politicians ALL wanted change,, I mean REALLY wanted change, they could change it.. What's it say that it hasn't been changed?
I have a hard time believing that our founding fathers would have suspected the world would become as perverted as it has when it comes to the politics or they would have stipulated a punishment so severe that elected officials wouldn't risk doing things that would land them in the pokey
I cant argue any of that. Very good points on both sides and that tells me we do all see the problems however we are not sure how to fix it.
I agree, it's not like we don't all know the problems.. we do,, we really just differ on how to set the ship right.
It's maddening. I don't see an easy fix.. In fact, I 'm not sure of a Hard fix.
I'm convinced that whatever attempt to make this thing right we take, will be met with more ways to get around it. A new system will be corrupted and perverted in a matter of days..
I"m also convinced that the only way to get politicians to be honest is to make the penalties so stiff, they'd be afraid to mess with us.
Jail,, (not some freakin white collar jail,, but hardtime), fines, BIG MONEY FINES. Loss of benefits and pensions. forfeiture of wages paid (not sure that's legal,,)
Point is, make it so damn expensive to screw with us, that they won't do it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 |
Quote:
Daman, I'll throw this out there to everybody... but...
If a politicians sole motivation is to keep their job
and they get to keep their job by getting re-elected
and they get re-elected by getting people in their states to vote for them again
and the people vote for them again if they think they are doing a good job
and they are doing a good job if they are doing what the people want them to do
Then how is working to get re-elected NOT doing what the people want you to do?
DC, I know that you directed your question to Daman and you two are probably more politically savvy then I, but I think it comes down to who has the most to spend. Often times they will benefit over some hopeful who has less to spend and gets less in the way of campaign contributions.
So we are back to those who have the most to spend ... Will have the loudest voice in determining the laws of this land.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
I think the post i made awhile back to you is still applicable to what you are saying.
This is nothing more than a moral issue. plain and simple.
There are good people....and there are bad people.
Money and power corrupt.
If you go and take a look at what our federal government was supposed to be, as apposed to what it is now, then you'll see the problem.
We need moral people that follow the constitution. If they did that, then we would be fine.
What good would a lobbyist be if they gave money to people who said, "I looked into it and the constitution says we don't have that power?"
I think lobbyists would go the way of postal workers.
This applies to almost every problem that we have today.
We take from some, and give to others.
Fight un-declared wars.
Violate civil liberties.
bailout bad businesses
subsidize people as a reward for getting them elected.
All of it is bull...its all wrong on so many levels.
This is a moral issue...and DC kinda hit it right on the head.
We are to blame....some of us become them.
Some of us want a handout....others want a favor. Self-seeking at its worst.
Some of us are righteous.
Some of us want it our way.
Most of us don't have a damn clue. Ignorance is bliss i suppose. Were all to busy just trying to survive.
The problem is money...it fuels it all greed, power, corruption.
The American people stopped holding politicians accountable to the constitution a long time ago. Now its just about what can you do for me.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,084
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,084 |
Quote:
Daman, I'll throw this out there to everybody... but...
If a politicians sole motivation is to keep their job
and they get to keep their job by getting re-elected
and they get re-elected by getting people in their states to vote for them again
and the people vote for them again if they think they are doing a good job
and they are doing a good job if they are doing what the people want them to do
Then how is working to get re-elected NOT doing what the people want you to do?
I wish I had a snappy come back for all that, But I don't. So here is my less than snappy comeback...
Collectively, those 545 individuals are in it for themselves.. too much proof of that.
You are assuming that they get reelected because they are doing thier jobs.
Well, how could that be. Collectively, they haven't.. I know this because look at the state of the country.
THese people are the ones that direct the policy of this country. You and I don't. What direction are we heading in., and have been heading for 50+ years?
so, individually, there are I"m sure a few that do thier jobs to one degree or the other, but collectively, they are killing this country..
So I have to reject your premise on it's face..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,802 |
I think it just comes down to what a misinformed electorate will base their votes off of: superficial eloquence, hyperbolic "us vs. them" rhetoric, and comfort and familiarity. We aren't collectively a people who will really delve deeply into the nitty gritty of governing policies proposed by our leaders and make decisions based off of that information and what's best for the public as a whole. Instead, our litmus test is how similarly they'll think like us on a host of irrelevant, distracting issues, how they present their ideas in appearance, and take comfort in that being what our leaders need to be. When the job performance of our elected officials is based off of the most basic of limitations in our thinking- usually centered around over-inflated self interest without concern for any non-consenting parties- then those leaders are just a reflection of us. Selfish, misinformed citizens give birth to these self-serving, ignorant leaders. They don't spontaneously grow within the soil. It's our own damn fault. So at the end of the day, yes the 545 are responsible for most of the legislation that's shifted the nation's car downhill with no e-brake. But when their bosses (us) are less qualified to determine how well or poor their performance is, then the same outcomes reproduces as a result until that shift of evaluation happens.
Translation: If you always to what you always did, you always get what you always got. The public needs to wake up.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,456 |
Quote:
Daman, I'll throw this out there to everybody... but...
If a politicians sole motivation is to keep their job
and they get to keep their job by getting re-elected
and they get re-elected by getting people in their states to vote for them again
and the people vote for them again if they think they are doing a good job
and they are doing a good job if they are doing what the people want them to do
Then how is working to get re-elected NOT doing what the people want you to do?
Because they are not doing their job they are creating a voting block of people that just want hand outs a trade for votes and has nothing what so ever to do with doing a good job.
John comes to work puts in his 8 hours every day is a very productive worker and sometimes puts in OT for free to make sure everything is done. He is doing what the (boss/people) want.
Joe comes in every day sits in the break room gives out coffee donuts and dollar bills to all the others listens to their problems while John does his work. (hes what the people like)
One day they need a new manager and workers all say hey John was always elusive pushing to get some work done while Joe was freindly and gave us stuff never pushed us to do anything. We're voting for JOE.
Who really is the best?
So what happens the company starts losing money, starts to say we need to make changes, but Joe says to the workers no Im management I say we need more workers we need more benifits then things will be good. I will tell the other managers this is what needs to be done.
Joe says alls you need to do is work, earn your keep.
The people say John your the man tell them and he gets re-elected.
The company goes broke.
Last edited by NickBrownsFan; 02/11/12 12:49 AM.
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Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... 545 vs. 300,000,000 People - By
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