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Yeah i can back it up....enjoy web page Ya know i noticed you didn't bother to answer my question....i'll post it again.... Out of the teams in the Super Bowl. How many have head coaches, OC's, and DC's that have been around for 3-4 years? Out of those...how many of those QB's have been around for that long too? I guess I should even add the playoffs...and please don't throw tebow out there, san fran maybe on the back of gore and the d...How many teams that consistently make the playoffs do it with a qb, and team that is in there first year of a system? How many without most of the starters have 3-4 years in the system? Why don't you answer that? Or you just like to whine? lets see green bay in 2008 rodgers--4th year in the system grant--2 years rb hall--2 years fb driver--10 years receiver jennings--3 years receiver lee--6 years tight end clifton--9 years left tackle spitz--3 years left guard wells--5 years center colledge--3 years right guard Tauscher--9 years right tackle I'm not gonna waste my time with the defense. What do you see when you look at that? anything stand out? Rodgers... A qb that had the playbook down? 4 years of lifting and study defenses? tons of practices, 4 off seasons to work on timing with receivers. colt gets a playbook....camp colt, and a bs session with farve. now rodgers' receivers.... driver and jennings. you think they knew what to do? where to be? you think they could read a d? I'll bet they both know how to run good routes at this point too. Colt gets... robo....2nd year...2nd system momass....2nd year..2nd system and injured cribbs....special teams stud...and what 2nd year as a receiver. little....rook that didn't even play the year before. rodgers gets donald lee...colt gets ben watson. watson has some time in the league and was reliable. rodgers gets... an offensive line with everyone have 3+ years of exp. I'll bet most of them in the same system too. colt gets... Nobody with any experience in this offense. Thomas and mack are good vets. a rookie guard another basically rookie guard and an oft injured stop-gap at right tackle Rodgers gets.... grant.....hey almost a rookie...2nd year in the system hall....2nd year in the system colt get.... rookie fb and wait!!! hillis....the madden cover guy....we are saved....oh...first year in the system and hurt hardesty.....maybe.....hurt jackson.....he was on gb.....backup to grant...wait...he's hurt too So...in looking at that, you don't see any problems? huh? you can waste your time watching all the film you want, and it won't mean squat. You can't tell me for one minute that any breakdown of film that you make has any merit, except for seeing a receiver wide open waving his hands that was missed, someone falling down, or if a guy executed his block....don't know if it was the right block, but you can see that. you don't know the play you don't know where the receiver was supposed to be or if the qb's drop back was perfect. I could go on and on. You wanna know, cause you care...but it don't change the fact that you are wasting your time. you can sit there and justify how "teams know colt, and just take away the middle" well guess what? hillis and watson were our only 2 threats....taking away the middle stops them both you say we could burn them outside, or over the top....with who? mitchell? whose gonna hold their block that long? We were throwing quick passes because we had to, and thats a big part of the WCO too. Those big passes come on 2nd and short, play-action helps too...how often were we in that situation. you say wallace did better....I say we could run it cause hillis was healthy, and have favorable down and distance for better passing. you say colts completion percentage is low...we lead the league in drops you throw out yards/attempt....really...all that crap might have something to do with it. The fact is our team is young...its gotta gain experience and learn. I don't know if colt is the answer or not, but you sure as heck don't know either. Not with this teams lack of experience, in both years in the nfl, and the system installed.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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You want to pay the quaterbacks coach 5 million a year? Peyton can't throw across his body so unless we need him to hold a clipboard or mentor the starting QB, i think it's a waste to even talk about manning playing again.
We aren't going to pay Peyton Hillis any money to throw across his body, hold a clipboard OR coach QBs... 
yebat' Putin
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Practice Squad
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I believe he means Peyton Hillis...not Manning.
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whew elf.. Dang son,  Nice try, but Ytown has made up his mind.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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Your posts are really thought out. You're pretty bright..and Ytown..I love a great debate..might as well be you.
Colt McCoy deserves another look.
The Browns offense was a factory of conservatism last year.
Pat Shurmur had no business calling plays.
Having your WR's run shallow crossing routes when you can't run the ball is a recipie for disaster. Over and over.
A young QB needs a some kind of running game in order to open up the defense.
can't run the ball,then the defense's job gets 80% easier.
3rd and 9..defense rushes 4 drops 7 or 5/6.
Defenses know the Browns have no WR that can blow the top off a defense.
the secondary just squats on 7 to 10 yard routes and waits for the WR's to make their breaks.
McCoy is at his best when the Browns can run the ball and he can use play action and freeze the LB'ers and hit that area between the LB'ers and S.
can you tell me what player(s) on offense had a good year last year?
Colt had the worst set of WR's in the NFL last year.
there isn't one WR on the Browns 2011 roster that I saw that I would say has a "high football IQ"
Greg Little hasn't played alot of WR. Massaqiou after 3 years,just doesn't get it.
he looks like a rookie out there. He fails to set up DB's.
Brian Robiskie couldn't beat CB off the LOS and lacked game time speed.
all in all..McCoy could not trust his WR's...
it didn't help that McCoy's pass protection was a sieve all year.
was there a worse pair of starting OG's in Lavaou and Pinkston?
and Pashos is a turnstile.
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Legend
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Of course most Super Bowl teams will have experienced head coaches and QBs. That makes sense, in that successful teams generally don't fire their head coach.
That doesn't change the fact that there are certain criteria you can use to judge a QB by, regardless of the team around him. You can look at a variety of factors, from how he handles the pocket, to how he throws the ball, the placement of the ball, and so on. These have nothing to do with the system, nothing to do with the other players, nothing to do with the coaches. Either a QB can make NFL throws or he cannot. Is he capable of seeing and understanding what is happening around him, and what the defense is doing? Thus far, McCoy is in the "cannot" category ....... and it doesn't matter what offense he is in, how many coaches or offensive coordinators he's played for, or any other factor.
Matt Moore left the Panthers and went to the Dolphins, he didn't necessarily know their offense, and he didn't know their players, and he had our offensive coordinator from a year ago who everyone tells me constitutes a weakness. He had a vastly superior year compared to McCoy's. If you watched him play at all, you can see why. He threw the ball where his guy could make a play on it. McCoy doesn't. It doesn't matter who he is throwing to, the matter remains the same .... he puts the ball in a bad position more often than not. it may not prevent a completion, but it prevents yards after the catch.
Getting back to McCoy ...... I don't really care what other QBs do or have. You can judge how a QB does things without great talent around him. I only mentioned Rodgers because of the fact that you brought his name up. I can compare McCoy to any of 31 other NFL QBs, and he almost always comes up short in almost every regard. Our OL was middle of the league, even with 2 young players. Other teams had it worse.Ask the Steelers. However, there are still certain things that a QB must be able to execute, or it will not matter how good the team around him is. McCoy fails in these most basic of criteria. That's not the recipe for success.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I agree with some of your points, but not all of them Storm........
I do agree that our offense was very poor last year. I don't put it all on Shurmur though. I think his play calling fit where the offense was at, and I think if he's the play caller this year, it'll improve.
I think that if Colt is given another year, he most definitely will improve in the WCO. Will he be elite? Probably not, but he should be an improved player just by knowledge of the offense and a real offseason to work with the coaches.
I don't think RB was necessary the real evil of last season, but it would have been very helpful if we were better at that position.
What I saw was that there was bad chemistry between the offense. That's because of the strike and a new offense. There also wasn't much talent on the offensive side of the ball either. Greg Little comes out as our best receiver, and he had a year off from college football before entering the pros. MoMass is really just a third down receiver built for matchups. He can possibly stretch the field and take advantage of defenses, but only against safeties, not against corners. Norwood looked decent, but he's no Wes Welker or Victor Cruz.
This team could use possibly two new receivers on the team.
As for the O-Line, I don't think Pinkston and Lavuao were as bad as you think. They're young, athletic, and they should improve. I do think that Pashos is garbage.
So we pretty much disagree on.......... how bad our receivers are (I say they're pretty bad, you say they're really bad) and why they're so bad.
And then we disagree on the guards. And Shurmur's play calling (which was bad, but I expect it to improve this year)
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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RB wasn't *the* evil, but it absolutely was one of our Achilles' Heels last season.
WR - no more needs to be said. When a rookie that hasn't played in two years (and not even at that position) ends up as your best WR there's a significant problem with that group.
Lauvao & Pinky - They were a lot better as the season wore on, but they were atrocious early on.
It's a sad state of affairs that Pashos was our best RT.
I agree on the play calling - I've maintained almost all season long that we were in West Coast 101 mode and implementing this offense as we went and as the players showed they were ready for more.... which pretty much necessitates that we were going to be uber-vanilla.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Thats your answer? Successful teams don't fire there head coach?
Really?
How about the experience in the system part? I gave you a rather glaring example of a team that has been doing it right for years. Everybody on that offense knew exactly what they were doing when Rodgers took his first snap. By that time Rodgers had everything but one thing. Alot of game day experience in real games.
And you don't see that? Nothing but another colt is the devil rant?
Could it be that these teams hired good people, install systems, stayed the course at one time, built through the draft, coached up their players......and started winning?
Now you see the winning part, and say "i want that" well sure we all do. You have to look at what goes into it though.
The dolphins?
If good teams don't fire their head coach...and they fired their head coach....BUT they had Moore....weren't they still bad? Moore did good enough for them to suck less than us...naw....i want more.
If all it takes is a qb that can put the ball where it needs to be then shouldn't they have won? Saving their coaches job in the process?
i could care less about dumb stats. The browns are plenty enough misery for me.
I'll say it again, you might be right. colt might suck. I'm a firefighter, not a general manager. Do we need a good qb....sure.
Until this team has time to mature in these systems we will struggle.
These guys need to be coached up, learn, and be evaluated.
Some will make it, some will be replaced.
Holmgren said after 32 starts in the same system you can judge if a guy has it or not.
Maybe he's right. Maybe this takes time.
They will field a successful team if they stick to the plan...that much i believe.
As for the how and when....its out of my control...i'm not gonna stress over it.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Do you agree that a QB can be judged by how he, personally, performs, completely separate from the rest of the team, based solely upon what he is supposed to do, and how he does those things he is supposed to do?
I'm just curious.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Do you agree that a QB can be judged by how he, personally, performs, completely separate from the rest of the team, based solely upon what he is supposed to do, and how he does those things he is supposed to do?
I'm just curious.
I think that can only be done to a certain degree. And, to do it, you would need to know what his audible and progression responsibilities are on each play. Adding on, you also need to know if his audible and progression responsibilities are limited because he can't grasp the more complicated ones or if they are limited because they are not implemented in the system yet.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Do you agree that a QB can be judged by how he, personally, performs, completely separate from the rest of the team, based solely upon what he is supposed to do, and how he does those things he is supposed to do?
I'm just curious.
Yes - but it's very hard to do a good job without knowledge of the play being called and the all-22 view of the field.
~Lyuokdea
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I believe that you can do some to a pretty large degree. Does the QB make throws that lead his receivers into the open, or does he merely throw passes that can be caught? Is he able to make all of the throws required of him with proficiency? Can he hit the deeper outs? Can he throw the ball down the field with authority? Can he drop a pass over a defender into his receiver's hands? Is he capable of leading his receivers away from danger? Can he throw to both stationary and moving targets capably? Does he hit his receivers in stride, or does he make them stop and come back for the ball, even when they are open by fairly significant margin? When throwing to a stationary target, does he make the appropriate decision of throwing to the inside or outside based on the coverage? Does the QB appear to be aware of what is happening on the field? Does he see blitzes, especially backside blitzes? Is he aware when there is an unblocked blitz, and does he either move from the pocket, or throw the ball to his hot read? These are just a few things that I think depend on no one but the QB, and by which he can be judged, even if receivers drop balls, and so on. These are areas where the QB is in total control. He makes his decisions, and he makes his throws. Up till that point, he is in control of certain factors. Once he throws the pass, he owns it. He can't make the receiver catch the ball, but he can put the ball in a position that makes it easier for the receiver to catch it. (and I am talking on most passes. Of course every QB has those passes that require a circus catch from time to time) I think that the QB controls a lot more than many people give him credit for, regardless of how the team is playing around him. There can be disastrous situations, like the Rams losing both starting Tackles, both starting WR, plus their rookie primary backup WR, (along with a staggering 6 DBs) but we only had 4 offensive players on IR, and 2 of them, Watson and Smith, didn't go on IR till after McCoy played his final game before being injured. Our other 2 offensive players on IR were Jackson and Steinbach, both lost in pre-season. Kinda weird looking at that list and seeing 2 Punters on IR.  I know we had injuries that kept guys (like Hillis and Hardesty) out of games. Regardless, there are still things that A QB must be able to do, several of which I listed above, and which I did not see from McCoy. Others want to disagree, that's their (and/or your) right. I just get sick and tired of the same tired argument that there is no way to judge a QB unless we have great talent around him ... because I feel that a QB can be judged solely on his play ..... and I think that teams must do this every year they don't have a franchise caliber guy. They need to see how each position plays, who was in the proper spot, etc., and how each player played in their own little bubble, and as part of the larger team.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It is not hard and you sure don't need all-22. 90% of the plays you should be able to read and know what was happening. The progressions in this offense is short and quick to long and deep and back to short on the dump down if the other options are covered. It is the basic philosophy of this offense.
Colt simply underperformed in all facets of the game. His presnap reads were poor. He appeared to 1 read and go to his emergency dump down target even when he had plenty of time. In crunch time he was more often than not stat whoring instead of looking to make a play. 4th and 15 with a min to go and he throws to the back 2 yards behind the line of scrimmage.
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Heres some other food for thought then I'm off to mens bball league.
Despite having shortcomings on the offense..McCoy threw for more TDS than INTS.
He was sacked 32 times...how many of those were coverage sacks or Colt not being able to sense the pressure collapsing the pocket?
He plays in a division where the other 3 teams have outstanding pass rushes.
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McCoy threw for more TDS than INTS. Hell his passes were so bad noone could catch them. In fact, he threw balls so poorly that 2 challenges were wasted by opposing coaches who believed the throw was so bad the defender had to touch the ball.
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Legend
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Quote:
Do you agree that a QB can be judged by how he, personally, performs, completely separate from the rest of the team, based solely upon what he is supposed to do, and how he does those things he is supposed to do?
I'm just curious.
YT...you can look at a QBs individual performance and make a judgement based on what the QB was supposed to do on a given play...
...but, you can only judge that QB fairly if you know what he was supposed to do on a given play.
YTOWN...DO YOU HAVE A BROWNS PLAYBOOK? ...do you have Shurmur's WCO?
I'll answer for you...NO, you don't have a playbook. You are simply judging the Browns QB based on some fictional image you made up in your own mind.
You don't have a clue on how to judge the QB play for the Browns, because you believe the success or failure of a (pass) play falls on one person..the QB. If a pass play fails, in your mind, it has to be the QBs fault...right?
Something you can't seem to grasp is how the performance of all 11 players on the offense (or defense) on every play, pass or run...depends on all 11 players to successfully do their job in order for a play to be successful.
Do you honestly believe a QB does it all by himself?
If just one offensive player fails to complete his assignment on a give play, the odds of that play being successful are greatly reduced.
This is what you don't seem to understand about the game of football...to fairly judge the performance of the QB position, you have to know what the other 10 players on offense were supposed to do on a given play and if they did complete their assignment.
...the fact is, you don't have a clue what the other 10 players on offense are supposed to do, on any play...DO YOU?
In the case of Colt McCoy, YT's focus is only on one person...the QB...and if a play fails...it's 100% Colt McCoy's fault.
Teams win championships...not individuals. The QB can't succeed if the other 10 offensive players do not complete their assignments on any play.
YT...you don't get a vote when it comes to McCoy playing QB or not. Your opinion is meaningless.
My opinion doesn't matter either...and I'm fine with that.
I'm going to support whom ever the Browns line up behind the center because I realize there are coaches and front office people with tons more experience at judging QBs than I have.
YT...are you aboard this ship when it sails, regardless who is lined up at QB?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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mac... there is a difference between wanting the team to win, and expecting it.
I want the team to win no matter who is playing. I do not expect us to win if McCoy is the starter. I will hope I am wrong ...... but I don't think I will be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Despite having shortcomings on the offense..McCoy threw for more TDS than INTS.
So did Blaine Gabbert.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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Despite having shortcomings on the offense..McCoy threw for more TDS than INTS.
So did Blaine Gabbert.
The same can't be said for the 80 million dollar man though. Sam Bradford
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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This is the kinda retarded stuff that is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Look you dont need a playbook nor All-22 to know a guy is playing like crap.
How do you know that pass by DA that sailed 10 yards over the receivers head didn't go where it was supposed to go and the receiver just ran the wrong route? Because he did over 100 times this year.
Well same is true for McCoy, he underthrew or threw the ball behind the receiver all year long. My God he checked down on 80% of his freaking passes and still only had a 50 something completion percentage.
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This is the kinda retarded stuff that is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Look you dont need a playbook nor All-22 to know a guy is playing like crap.
How do you know that pass by DA that sailed 10 yards over the receivers head didn't go where it was supposed to go and the receiver just ran the wrong route? Because he did over 100 times this year.
Well same is true for McCoy, he underthrew or threw the ball behind the receiver all year long. My God he checked down on 80% of his freaking passes and still only had a 50 something completion percentage.
That's a great point. Many of the same people saying that it is impossible to appraise a QB's play today are the same ones who lambasted Anderson in the past.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
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This is the kinda retarded stuff that is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Look you dont need a playbook nor All-22 to know a guy is playing like crap.
How do you know that pass by DA that sailed 10 yards over the receivers head didn't go where it was supposed to go and the receiver just ran the wrong route? Because he did over 100 times this year.
Well same is true for McCoy, he underthrew or threw the ball behind the receiver all year long. My God he checked down on 80% of his freaking passes and still only had a 50 something completion percentage.
That's a great point. Many of the same people saying that it is impossible to appraise a QB's play today are the same ones who lambasted Anderson in the past.
That's all hindsight though..That is the equivalent of me saying that Many of the same people that said Quinn was our "Franchise QB" are the same one's saying Griffin is a "Franchise QB" and if he fails then soandso is the next one. They didn't know anymore than the one's saying stick with McCoy and give him this year. As far as the check downs..We could have the number one overall pick in the draft in Bradford, be picking second again two years after selecting him first. We can also have his 6TD and 6 interceptions in 10 games and a 53% completion percentage on checkdowns. We are saving ourselves a bundle right now...
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Do you agree that a QB can be judged by how he, personally, performs, completely separate from the rest of the team, based solely upon what he is supposed to do, and how he does those things he is supposed to do?
I'm just curious.
To a point i suppose....
If he punts on first down.....that would be bad 
for the rest...i'm afraid it would have to be a team thing...
Does the play get called in quickly.
Does everyone know what they are supposed to do.
Does the qb and line recognize the defense and call the right protections
Does the qb need to audible.
Do the receivers recognize the defense, and know which route to run.
Then you have the snap. If there is no false start, or illegal motion.
Linemen block successfully?
Recevers run a correct crisp route to the proper spot on time?
Does the qb drop back with perfect timing?
Is the ball released right when the receiver makes his break?
Is the ball caught?
When you know the play...and all that other stuff, then you can say who is most likely to blame.
I don't know where exactly or how they tell receivers to run to, but take a slant for example. Say the qb is expecting a receiver to be exactly 10 yards down the field at the left hash....he drops back..is on time...throws right when the receiver makes his break
The receiver rounds off his route and is actually 3 feet inside the left hash when he hits 10 yards....where's the ball? Its behind him.
So who screwed up? Looks like colt did...but it was the receiver.
By the same token maybe there was some pressure so he throws sooner than he should...now he's guessing where the receiver will be...might work, or he throws to the spot and the receiver has to dive for no yac. who screwed up here?
Looks like colt, but its the line.
And finally...sometimes colt is going to screw up.
What causes less of this? see my post above.
knowledge...repetition...experience.
Thats my take.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Well, at least you explained why you feel the way you do. I can respect that, even if I disagree with it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Its cool...like i said i know you care.. When i read your stuff about qb's I can just imagine what your blood pressure is doing. Not healthy. I am simply not in control, so i don't let it bother me. We got some good qb evaluators on our team...and they have all that info that we don't have. I'm positive that if your right, then colt will be replaced if its not fixable. when you think about it, grading what we have been watching has to suck.  we lose sleep....these guys lose jobs. I think it will take some time..i hope to God not too much, but i'm sure the results will be worth it. Just think...we could all be doing road trips to the steelers, bengals, and ravens boards....cause nobody will show up to talk smack
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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McCoy vs the AFC North this year had less than a 50% comp.
the fact of the matter is,if you can't run the ball,you become one dimensional.
its all about balance in the AFC North.
I asked the question and no one answered it..who around Colt McCoy had a productive and good year?
more often than not,McCoy was playing catch up in the 4th quarter.
he lacked the weapons on offense to put the ball consistantly in the end zone.
other than Joe Thomas..his o-line was garbage.
Peyton Hillis missed more than half the year...
when your offense that is striving for balance and your best RB is on IR along with your best pulling guard..its not gonna work out.
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the fact of the matter is,if you can't run the ball,you become one dimensional.
Yet many teams can't or don't run the ball well. The Giants were last in rushing in the NFL this past year. Tennessee was 31st in rushing. The Lions were 29th. The Packers were 27th. The worst team out of this bunch was the 9-7 Titans.
We were 28th.
In the AFCN, the Ravens were 10th in rushing. Pittsburgh was 14th. Cincinnati was 20th.
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I asked the question and no one answered it..who around Colt McCoy had a productive and good year?
Alex Smith and Ben Watson had a decent year combined, but how can any receiver have a great year if he cannot get the ball thrown to him? Robiske was blasted as the problem, and was cut. Then we moved Little over there, and he got no passes that weren't short passes. Massaquoi has declined in productivity over the past 3 years, and has suffered concussions from big "kill shot" hits.
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more often than not,McCoy was playing catch up in the 4th quarter.
When you only score just over 13 PPG, that's gonna happen. Last year we scored almost 17 PPG with an offense people hated. What changed? We put more emphasis on the QB. We still have largely the same OL. (except Steinbach) We had the same receivers, except for Little, who was, by all reports, an improvement over Robiske.
So we improved .... yet declined.
We faced backup QB after backup QB ...... yet could not outscore teams. We faced amazing guys like Gradkowski, Collins, Boller, Whitehurst, and Skelton. We beat only 2 of these QBs.
I would venture a guess that we would have lost to Indy if they'd had Manning, and Seattle if they'd had jackson. (as unimpressive as he is)
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other than Joe Thomas..his o-line was garbage.
Yet McCoy wasn't sacked every other play. The OL was ranked in the middle of NFL.com's rankings. The line was actually better at pass blocking than at run blocking, although they did improve somewhat near the end of the year.
Pittsburgh had an OL that was garbage. They got (Oh so sad) Roethlisberger beaten half to death this year. (Oh I feel so bad for him) Our OL was gold compared to his.
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Peyton Hillis missed more than half the year...
That was a problem. Unfortunately, injuries this position hard. That happens. As pointed out above, lack of a running game is no longer a kiss of death in the NFL. You can even win a Super Bowl being last in the NFL in rushing.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Let me know when we disagree on something.
Also the most troubling thing to me about Colt is that he's not a highly accurate thrower of the football.
I really had hoped that he'd have near-Brees accuracy due to the college games that I saw and the statistics in the other games that I missed.
I can forgive a lot of things about a non-prototype NFL QB. But if that QB is also regularly inaccurate then I don't need to waste any more of our coaches time.
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Well, isn't this year going to be a bit different for rookies??
I thought that last year's rookies were grandfathered in to be able to have fat contracts and this year is the first year of caps??
... or is my memory going to hell?
Yes your memory is off. The cap starts in 2013 and the contracts were immediately lowered for last year's rookies.
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This is the kinda retarded stuff that is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Look you dont need a playbook nor All-22 to know a guy is playing like crap.
How do you know that pass by DA that sailed 10 yards over the receivers head didn't go where it was supposed to go and the receiver just ran the wrong route? Because he did over 100 times this year.
Well same is true for McCoy, he underthrew or threw the ball behind the receiver all year long. My God he checked down on 80% of his freaking passes and still only had a 50 something completion percentage.
I agree. How many times do you need to see it before you understand that is his flaw. He may be throwing it on time, but the ball isn't getting there on time.
Earlier you were talking about Chris Rainey.
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This is the kinda retarded stuff that is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Look you dont need a playbook nor All-22 to know a guy is playing like crap.
How do you know that pass by DA that sailed 10 yards over the receivers head didn't go where it was supposed to go and the receiver just ran the wrong route? Because he did over 100 times this year.
Well same is true for McCoy, he underthrew or threw the ball behind the receiver all year long. My God he checked down on 80% of his freaking passes and still only had a 50 something completion percentage.
mourg...
...so it was all Colt's fault?
Well...I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you don't get a vote in whether it's McCoy starting next season or not.
Here is where I'm at in this great debate...whomever lines up behind center at qb...I'm going to support the guy...and I'm also going to respect those who make the decision, who starts at qb.
Some of the Cleveland fans and media talking heads may not like the fact that their opinions hold no weight with this front office...but consider this...who knows more about football and judging talent, Holmgren, Heckert and the Browns coaching staff?...OR... some fans and talking heads?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Just clicking
Personally, I think those that love Colt McCoy are jumping the gun.. He's not proven anything.
I also think that those that think Colt McCoy will NEVER be a great NFL QB are also jumping the gun.
here is what I know for sure: Holmgren, Heckert and Shumur know more than any of us. while that doesn't mean they will always make the right call on players, it's safe to say, they'll make more right calls than any of us.
If they dump Colt or replace him and move him down the lineup,, then I think that speaks volumes about what they think of him. (keep in mind, Holmgren benched Favre more than once in the beginning)
If they don't dump him, if in fact they stand behind him, that in itself will speak volumes. (it could mean that love him or it could mean he's a placeholder)
So what's it come down too? well, it comes down to how much faith you have in the front office.
I believe it's not time to throw Colt McCoy under a bus. I also don't think it's wise to throw a bunch of picks up for grabs to move up and get the next "Big Thing".
And I believe that Holmgren, Heckert and Shurmur have assembled a staff that can teach this group how to win. (see what Jauron did with the D)
I really wanna see a year of uninterupted learning by the players and teaching by the staff.
Those are just my opinions.. But I'm no guru.. Just a guy that likes football and in particular, the Browns..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It seems Gil Brandt's support of Colt McCoy has our local QB experts panties in a wod Now where did I put those hip waders 
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 02/11/12 09:07 AM.
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Oh, the "1 dimensional" excuse again....so tell me....why was it that opposing Ds played with 8 men in the box CONSTANTLY from the 1st game on...why? I guess they respected our running game more than Mr. McCoy's arm...and he NEVER made them pay to re-consider their gameplan....THAT is why we had no running game, our QB play (or lack thereof) We were 1 dimensional BECAUSE of Colt, not because of the 10 other players...Colt had 1on1 matchups with little S help over the top EVERY game almost on every passing play and all we saw was 1 ugly up for grabs jump ball throw every other game...no deep outs, deep crossers....just stupid hail maries and check downs...how anyone sees any potential in this guy after this season is really beyond me, I don't even like him as a bakcup on a bad team (and we still are) since he can't give that DA or Holcomb like spark from the bench for a couple of spot starts....he is a backup on a good team that wants his backup to limit mistakes and win with the rest of the team....it's true that it takes more than talent to win, but it's also true that you need more than intangibles to win...and that's talent...and Colt simply has not enough talent...he starts to remind me of a better Dorsey, who also won tons of games in College, had the brains but simply didn't have the talent and feel for the NFL speed....not hitting WR in stride, freezing under pressure is a sure sign that a QB is overwhelmed by the game speed...and that's what I saw from Colt all season....and it was all there at Texas too (go back to the scouting report in my thread "past picks profiles" for proof) Newsflash: in today's NFL you pass to set up (better: change up) with the run. The way Ds played us is ALL you need to know who they respected and feared and who not....do I have to pull out the Ed Reed quote again? Here you go: http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7299321/nfl-baltimore-raven-ed-reed-being-elite-safety
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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No kidding about being tough. I find myself swaying all over the board on what would be best.
I am now back to keeping the picks and throwing a ton at Flynn.
I'd then trade down out of 4 to whoever has the hots for Blackmon(I don't think he is the best receiver), and then target Richardson and Sanu in round 1.
This is 1a for me.
1b is staying at 4 and getting RG3.
I'd certainly give up picks for RG3 if he were a slam dunk type of guy. Just not sure that he is....that's why I don't want to give up picks.
Although if we resign Hillis, sign a good FA WR (not just a guy cause he's out there), then giving up picks for RG3 wouldn't be so bad.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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DJ, that Ed Reed quote pretty much speaks to the sad state of affairs this team has been in for a long time. Pathetic.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
It seems Gil Brandt's support of Colt McCoy has our local QB experts panties in a wod
Now where did I put those hip waders
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Y-town..the Giants,Packers and Lions idenities are throwing the football.
their offensive schemes aren't striving for balance. They are gonna live and die by the pass. But early in Manning's career,they were more balanced..likewise with Rodgers,and the Lions lost their bell cow before the season started so they simply changed their pass run ratio.
for whatever reasons the Titans running game didn't get on track till late in the year.
Robiskie was a problem. He would make any starting QB look bad.
he had issues beating CB's off the LOS..getting to spots on the field,unable to create seperation. If you aren't getting open, then you know what happens.
checkdown,sack, overthrow,incomplete.
take this into consideration...why was the Browns offense so conservative this year?
its like the one ex-player for Holmgren said on local radio
"Holmgren runs a out dated version of the WCO"
other teams get chunk plays and the Browns are trying to complete passes 5-7 yards at a time.
can you name me one Browns WR that other defenses really fear?
You stated Watson and Smith had decent years?
decent doesn't get it done.
I never said I was opposed to bringing another QB. But this team has bigger issues to address than QB.
have you ever sat and thought that McCoy has not had the benefit of solid tutilage?
maybe to this point the Browns haven't had anyone quailified to break down McCoy's film and tell him what he's doing wrong?
I doubt Seneca Wallace has extended himself to help McCoy.
maybe Brad Childress is that guy that right his wrongs.
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Does the QB make throws that lead his receivers into the open, or does he merely throw passes that can be caught?
It takes chemistry between receiver and QB to throw a guy open and that takes time and familiarization with both system and receiver.
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Is he capable of leading his receivers away from danger?
It's the receivers job to run the route properly (that includes his release from the LOS) and present a target to the QB.
The only thing a QB is guilty of in that case is throwing the ball to the guy who either ran a poor route and or could not gain separation perhaps due to a poor release.
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Does he hit his receivers in
stride,
That's a timing issue between QB and receiver and 50% of that equation is on the receiver to run a good route and be where the QB expects him to be.
I don't think that he has a problem hitting a moving target.
He seems to do a pretty good job of throwing on the move.
The windows are much smaller at this level and that's an adjustment all QB can struggle with at first.
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does he make the appropriate decision of throwing to the inside or outside based on the coverage?
Once again experience can make all the difference.
Bottom line ... You can't judge a work of art if it's not a finished product.
It's no different when evaluating a player.
It's true that you can judge a QB somewhat regardless of the talent around him, but you will never see the full picture until he has talent around him.
In the end you might be correct about McCoy, but not for the some of the reasons you have given.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 02/11/12 02:06 PM.
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