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One last thing regarding Griffin......
What is the one thing the FO always says when asked about the future of the Browns? It's, "We're committed to building through the Draft."
I have a hard time believing that people who say that constantly are going to use up 3 or more draft picks for one guy unless they're on the verge of a Super Bowl. Which we are not.
I've said all along that I think the Browns would take RG3 if he's there at #4 but they're not moving up to pick him.
That Thursday in April is certainly going to be interesting no matter what.
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With the new wage scale, it may be the longest first round ever, even with the shortened time frame for making your pick. I suspect there will be a record number of trades.
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Quote:
With the new wage scale, it may be the longest first round ever, even with the shortened time frame for making your pick. I suspect there will be a record number of trades.
I can see the Browns involved in two trades themselves, both times moving back.
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Great idea....we have 13 picks already, let's add another couple and make it 15 rooks and then cut 5 of them come September
prospect happy anyone?
#gmstrong
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Great idea....we have 13 picks already, let's add another couple and make it 15 rooks and then cut 5 of them come September
prospect happy anyone?
Just increasing the odds of getting contributing players and whose saying that all those picks are this year? Add in the fact that picks can be packaged together or with players (yeah, there are players on the Browns that I would include with draft picks to get higher draft picks.)
Stupid much? 
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Also - Heckert loves to move up in the end of the first round to get players he's targeted (Taylor/Hardesty) - it would be great to have the ammo to do that.
I have a lot of faith in the guys Heckert picks out, he's done a great job drafting here the last 2 years.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Quote:
we have 13 picks already
dj...really...13 picks?
CLE...picks = 9
rnd..pick..
1. #4, #22 (from ATL)
2. #5
3. #4
4. #5, #23 (from ATL)
5. #4
6. #5
7. #4
Did I miss any?
Oh yea, the 6th and 7th round compensatory picks...you do realize, many of late round picks are a real long shot to make the roster?
The picks gained by trading back are usually not late round picks. Looking at the Atlanta trade, extra trades like those help to build quality depth that can help to rebuild the roster, "years" ahead of schedule.
Last edited by mac; 02/26/12 05:30 PM.
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We are expected to get three compensatory picks.
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The guy that "mocks" the Compensatory picks has us getting 4 picks this year, and he's usually pretty accurate...
Two 6s and two 7s, and these picks are not tradeable...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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and we don't have a 7th, but we have 2 6ths (before comps.)
13 looks to be right.. so what was the point of your question?
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Let's say we do have 13 picks. I'm not in favor of being the next victim of the latest 'Great Train Robbery' (the Herschel Walker trade) or Ditka's insanity to offer the entire New Orleans draft for Ricky Williams.
I'd just rather not do that.
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Oh yea, the 6th and 7th round compensatory picks...you do realize, many of late round picks are a real long shot to make the roster?
Like Rubin? or Vickers? or Hagg? our 5th to 7th rounders have turned out to be as good (if not better) as our 3rd to 4th
Name me the last draft pick we had that didn't make opening day roster?
Funny...all of a sudden we don't seem to "build from the draft" anymore 
Point is: we finally get comp picks to fill out the roster the way we want and we have to cut them all....what a waste
Newsflash: we already have a very young roster that needs further development time...how about we use some of the tradeable picks to get a premium talent at a premium position of need? Nah, let's go quantity over quality like we did in that 2009 draft...that worked so well...
#gmstrong
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Let's say we do have 13 picks. I'm not in favor of being the next victim of the latest 'Great Train Robbery' (the Herschel Walker trade) or Ditka's insanity to offer the entire New Orleans draft for Ricky Williams.
I'd just rather not do that.
And exactly where and when is this one gonna happen???
U might be classified a "Drama Queen"...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Let's say we do have 13 picks. I'm not in favor of being the next victim of the latest 'Great Train Robbery' (the Herschel Walker trade) or Ditka's insanity to offer the entire New Orleans draft for Ricky Williams.
I'd just rather not do that.
I agree with that, but packaging picks to move up in the draft isn't a bad call.
It seems like everything is so black and white sometimes. Having some extra ammo to move up to ensure guys we want doesn't have to mean giving up the entire draft for one player.
We definitely need more players on this team, but between free agency and developing some of the players we already have, trading up with some of our later picks isn't a bad call either.
Doesn't mean doing anything crazy, just if there's a guy high on our board compared to where the pick is, it might make sense to move up a couple slots to get him.
After all, only so many guys can make the roster
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I think that what you said about FA is important. Say we re-sign Hillis, thereby solidifying our RB corps and we get a quality no. 1 WR in FA like a Bowe (unlikely) or maybe Colston or Manningham (if you feel he's a no. 1). Then, you trade our top 3 picks for RGIII.
You come out of the offseason with a QB, WR and RB. Gotta think that helps our offense.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Funny...all of a sudden we don't seem to "build from the draft" anymore
dj...did I say the Browns were not going to build from the draft?
You do understand, those draft picks accumulated via trading down in the first round, usually yield those highly valued picks in the top half of the draft.
Yep, any player picked in any round has a chance to make it...depends on the individual. All a draft pick insures the prospect is a chance to make the team, regardless if it's a first round pick or a 7th round pick.
See if you can understand this...the longer the Browns stick to their plan of rebuilding the team via the draft, the better the talent becomes.
Through selective drafting, the Browns will be able to upgrade the talent level at each position..."if" the Browns stick to their plan.
At this time, the Browns have needs at just about every position, so the trade down option helps to rebuild the roster and improve the talent level and it reduces the amount of time, by years, utilizing the trade down option.
Trading down, for a team with many needs, such as the Browns, is a good draft strategy.
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Trading down, for a team with many needs, such as the Browns, is a good draft strategy.
I disagree.
First off, I don't think we have as many needs as some make it sound.
Secondly, if you're trading down constantly, you're not picking up Elite/Top level talent...
And filling your team with Average talent, creates an average team...
I would rather have 3-4 Top level players than 6-8 Average players...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Trading down, for a team with many needs, such as the Browns, is a good draft strategy.
I disagree.
First off, I don't think we have as many needs as some make it sound.
Secondly, if you're trading down constantly, you're not picking up Elite/Top level talent...
And filling your team with Average talent, creates an average team...
I would rather have 3-4 Top level players than 6-8 Average players...
How do you get 3 or 4 top level players if you trade your top 3 picks to get one "supposed" top level player?
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First off, I don't think we have as many needs as some make it sound.
Secondly, if you're trading down constantly, you're not picking up Elite/Top level talent...
Because we know that there is no elite talent outside of the top 10-15 picks in the NFL draft. /sarcasm
This isn't the NBA, and the talent gap between the top 15 picks, the 15-30th picks, and the 30-60th picks are nowhere near as big as people seem to think they are.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 02/26/12 07:07 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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I look at the Patriots, and they constantly trade back, get more picks, and while they occasionally hit with a Gronk and Hernandez, I think their lack of defensive talent is an affect of constantly trading back...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
First off, I don't think we have as many needs as some make it sound.
Secondly, if you're trading down constantly, you're not picking up Elite/Top level talent...
Because we know that there is no elite talent outside of the top 10-15 picks in the NFL draft.
This isn't the NBA, and the talent gap between the top 15 picks, the 15-30th picks, and the 30-60th picks are nowhere near as big as people seem to think they are.
I'm not agreeing with OS on this.. We have one receiver that's young but I think he's gonna be good (little) we have another receiever that always makes neat plays but he's getting older (cribbs), we have norwood who I like.
none of them are what anyone would mistake for a number 1 guy. (little may turn out to be but as of today,, no)
We have Hillis (maybe), then what?
We have a solid Center, LG and LT, but the right side is questionable
that's just the Offense.
On D we are missing a DE, 1, maybe 2 LB's, I mean Elite or approaching Elite LB's.
We have one solid safety (ward) and a bunch of guys, and one young, solid Corner (haden) and then a bunch of guys. Some of the "bunch of guys" on this team would be hard pressed to play for other teams very long. (that's not to say I don't like Adams and a few of them) but they aren't close to good enough.
So, WR, WR, RB, RT, RG (maybe), LB, LB, safety and Corner..
no,, we don't need much at all 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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How do you get 3 or 4 top level players if you trade your top 3 picks to get one "supposed" top level player?
IMO, (And this is assuming Griffin is a top level player), the QB is definitely the most important position in football. No question about it.
A top QB is more important than a top from any position. Just look at Peyton Manning...........
I think this is a case of not being sold on a QB and trying to find reasons not to get him. Trying to win in this league without a top level QB makes things a lot harder
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Quote:
Quote:
Let's say we do have 13 picks. I'm not in favor of being the next victim of the latest 'Great Train Robbery' (the Herschel Walker trade) or Ditka's insanity to offer the entire New Orleans draft for Ricky Williams.
I'd just rather not do that.
And exactly where and when is this one gonna happen???
U might be classified a "Drama Queen"...
Have you been reading what posters in this message board have been writing about what it would take for the Browns to move up two spots to draft RG3?
Sorry, but if they make such a trade, this front office needs to be fired and Lerner should be forced to sell the team.
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So, WR, WR, RB, RT, RG (maybe), LB, LB, safety and Corner..
no,, we don't need much at all
We need 1 WR, not 2.. We have 2 potential #2s in Little and MoMass then we have Cribbs and Norwood.. if we can add a #1 our WR corps gets immeasurably better as a unit. And that's not even considering a Calvin Johnson type #1.. just a solid deep threat #1...
If Hillis re-signs, we don't need a RB.
We do need a RT but I think we are ok at OG, especially if we keep Steiny.
We do need a DE and 1 LB.. and some secondary help would be nice..
But I think you greatly underestimate the impact that just 1 or 2 truly elite players would have in making a lot of our current players better.
The Steelers get to the playoffs every year and have won super bowls with what some consider an inadequate OL because they have other players that compensate for it... they have inadequate corners but with their pass rush and Troy P they compensate for it... no team is stacked at every position or even has above average talent at every position, yet they still win consistently.
I would love to have above average talent at every position and be elite in at least a few positions, that would be great but the reality is that you don't have to be to win consistently...
You put an above average to elite QB, an average RT, an elite DE or OLB on this team and we are immediately an 8 win team... (considering we keep what we already have)... Then fill in a couple other positions with above average talent and we are a 10 win team... and from where are starting, that should be our short term goal.. I will say it's asking a lot to get from where we are to 10 wins in one offseason, but I think it's doable with a good draft and a couple key FAs... 2 years is more likely.
You also have to consider that we had the youngest starting 22 in the NFL last year... and you begin to realize that the impact of a full year of preparation and a little more experience is going to do wonders for a lot of these guys as well... plus keeping them in a consistent system... I would agree with the poster that said we aren't as far away as some seem to think.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Quote:
Trading down, for a team with many needs, such as the Browns, is a good draft strategy.
I disagree.
First off, I don't think we have as many needs as some make it sound.
Secondly, if you're trading down constantly, you're not picking up Elite/Top level talent...
And filling your team with Average talent, creates an average team...
I would rather have 3-4 Top level players than 6-8 Average players...
osu...the issue I have with most of those who think nothing of trading away our first round picks for one player...
...you are not being realistic when it comes to address the team's needs.
Some act as if there are no defensive needs, talking only of the offensive needs.
The Browns defense made huge gains in "pass defense" but their "rush defense" ranked 30th, giving up 147 yds per game on the ground.
Needs on defense...
DE, LB, CB
The Browns offense ranked 30th in total yds, 24th in pass offense, 28th in rush offense.
Needs on offense...
WRx2, OL, RB, QB
Of those 6 positions of needs, if the Browns retain all their draft picks, they should be able to draft 3 starters with the 2 first round picks and the #37 pick.
If the Browns spend their two first round picks on RGIII, it is very likely he won't start this year (but hopefully in the future) and the Browns would be able to fill 1 position of need with their #37 pick...maybe one of the WR needs.
...the Browns would still need DE, LB, CB on defense
...and on offense, another WR, OL, RB
The best plan B, ..."IF"...Holmgren and Heckert believe their is a need to add another QB...sign Matt Flynn in free agency, which means the Browns could use their #4, #22 and #37 to add a
...WR at #4
...DE or LB at #22
...OL at #37
If the Browns are not able to sign Hillis, #4 could be used on Richardson, if he is still on the board.
The "team" will be further ahead, if they sign Flynn in free agency and use the top 3 picks to address positions of need, adding 3 starters.
Last edited by mac; 02/26/12 07:47 PM.
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I will be livid if we pick Richardson at 4.
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I will be livid if we pick Richardson at 4.
ur not the only one.
I honestly would prefer getting a Kalil over Richardson..
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the talent gap between the top 15 picks, the 15-30th picks, and the 30-60th picks are nowhere near as big as people seem to think they are.
LMAO...
U need to just go do your Fantasy Land Football...Cause that comment makes u look like a fool...
Go Browns!!!
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LMAO...
U need to just go do your Fantasy Land Football...Cause that comment makes u look like a fool...
So you're arguing that elite players only exist in the top 15 picks of the NFL draft?
The probability that a player makes the pro-bowl from the late first round is more than 50% as much as a player from the top ten of the first round. In general if you traded a high first rounder for two low firsts, you'd get more elite players. (Defined only by pro-bowlers).
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 02/26/12 08:36 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Quote:
Quote:
the talent gap between the top 15 picks, the 15-30th picks, and the 30-60th picks are nowhere near as big as people seem to think they are.
LMAO...
U need to just go do your Fantasy Land Football...Cause that comment makes u look like a fool...
And yours don't?
Sorry, just because you follow some of the "experts" that, ironically, are NOT employed by nfl teams - does not make you judge, juror, and executioner.
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In 2009 the top 15 picks produced 3 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks also produced 3.
In 2008 the top 15 picks produced 4 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 3.
In 2007 the top 15 picks produced 6 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 5.
In 2006 the top 15 picks produced 7 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 9.
In 2005 the top 15 picks produced 8 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 3.
In 2004 the top 15 picks produced 10 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 5.
In 2003 the top 15 picks produced 7 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 5.
In 2002 the top 15 picks produced 7 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 3.
In 2001 the top 15 picks produced 9 pro-bowlers, the next 15 picks produced 7.
So no - the talent gap is not that great (61 to 43 if I can do math) . And you would get more pro-bowlers if you took two later picks rather than an earlier pick.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 02/26/12 08:45 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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I look at the Patriots, and they constantly trade back, get more picks, and while they occasionally hit with a Gronk and Hernandez, I think their lack of defensive talent is an affect of constantly trading back...
Isn't McCourty (drafted 27th overall) a Pro-Bowl corner? Vince Wilfork has been pretty decent (4 Pro Bowls) and he was selected 21st overall.
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Quote:
Quote:
I look at the Patriots, and they constantly trade back, get more picks, and while they occasionally hit with a Gronk and Hernandez, I think their lack of defensive talent is an affect of constantly trading back...
Isn't McCourty (drafted 27th overall) a Pro-Bowl corner? Vince Wilfork has been pretty decent (4 Pro Bowls) and he was selected 21st overall.
So when they don't trade back, they get good players? Interesting..
I'm not saying never trade back, I'm usually a trade back kind of guy, especially when the talent isn't that great and we can drop back and pick up picks the following year... But if we're just moving back to pick up 6th rounders or whatever then meh...
Would I always want to go from 5 to 27, even if an extra first is possible? No, because sometimes you just gatta take the Elite talent...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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the talent gap between the top 15 picks, the 15-30th picks, and the 30-60th picks are nowhere near as big as people seem to think they are.
Agreed 100%.
If we could move back a few spots pick up a second 2nd rounder in the process Id' go:
1a. Tannehill
1b. Mercilus
2a. David
2b. Osmele
3. Martin
4a. McNutt
4b. Broyles
5. Kelemete
6a. Rainey
6b. Harris
We sign a big time FA WR. And a top 1/3rd FA CB. Resign Hillis and Patterson.
Let Tannehill ride the pine for a year and work on his mechanics, improve his overall strength and master the WCO mentally.
I like our prospects in 2013 if we go that route.
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Much will depend on his workout, but I have a feeling if we want Tannehill we might be better off simply staying put. I think he is being viewed as a top 10 pick by some teams.
I am thinking
1. Tannehill QB
2. Sanu WR
3. Amini Silatolu OL
4a Chris Rainey RB/WR
4b Antonio Allen S
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) If the Browns don't draft
RG3..whats their "Plan B?"
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