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As much hype as the Browns get in regards to trading up for Griffin.. I could easily see Holmgren telling Heckert/Shurmur that he is sure that Colt McCoy is the guy.. "now go get him some talent to help him out"
Here is the thing. Heckert and Holmgren and Shurmer have stated they want to bring in some competition for McCoy. If you draft a guy 2nd or 4th in the draft you usually have no intentions of that guy being anything other than your day 1 starter. If you trade picks for Flynn and give him a hefty new salary you usually do that with the intention that he will come in and be your day 1 starter. What if they are thinking something totally different than what many of us are? Maybe they really like a guy in next years draft and trade down again to secure another first next year. Would you care if they brought a guy like Henne to compete for this year? What if they think the guy that would be able to grow this offense best is Kirk Cousins with time?
I won't be upset in whatever they choose, but have my ideas that I like better and least. Maybe this ends up being like our version of the Drew Brees/Philip Rivers situation. Where we draft a guy and he sits and the light comes on for Colt like Holmy said. That wouldn't be a bad situation to be in. If Holmgren came out and said Colt is the guy like you said and they went out and surrounded him with talent, I have no doubt that in year two with added weapons and an offseason will prove most valuable and we will be watching better football. Throw in Childress and I think we will give teams within our division all they can handle on game day and be better prepared.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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RG3 is highly coveted by the fans, sports radio guys, perhaps by the front office in Berea..
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I think it's more sports radio guys and "so-called" expertss more than fans and the front office. I know some fans want him, but I think it's the normal we want this guy mentality. The media is hyping it up more than anything. It's non-season so they need something to talk about.
I somewhat agree. Nobody knows who the FO covets. This time of year you can't take any quote from these guys as any sort of clue as to how they're really leaning.
Last year the whole known universe had us taking a WR high because that's what they figured we needed. So they said we "coveted" AJ Green or Julio Jones. Fact is, and it is a fact, our top two picks went to the defensive side of the ball.
So much for the talking heads opinion. Not only did we not go WR first or second, we didn't even go offense.
Now they figure WR is not our greatest need, (probably since we drafted Little), and now say we "covet" RGlll. They all say this.
But then again, last year they all said "that".
No one knows what they'll do and there are no clues as to how they're thinking. Personally, I don't think RGlll is a good fit here. But I severely lack in knowing anything about it.
So if the FO doesn't go for RGlll, and we have more ammo than anyone else to do it, then I'm ok with that as they either think he's not a good fit OR that we have greater needs.
If they do go for RGlll then I'll assume they do think he's a good fit AND it's our greatest need and I'm ok with that too.
What makes this time of the season so exciting is because it's like anticipating Christmas morning. We know there will be presents under the tree for us but we have no idea what they will be. We have our "wish list" but we just don't know what surprise awaits us.
If we knew it wouldn't be exciting.
#gmstrong
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And if this front office doesn't get him ..... they had better be right.
And if this front office DOES get him ..... they had better be right.
#gmstrong
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How many more games are the Browns going to win with RGIII at QB in 2012?
Sounds like a fair question to me...
...and since we no longer have first round picks, how do we address wr and RT?...
...anyone?
GM strong...
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And if this front office doesn't get him ..... they had better be right.
And if this front office DOES get him ..... they had better be right.
Indeed,, that's a concept that seems to get overlooked...
In other words,, They need to get it right.. no matter what they do.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I kind of like Derron Thomas too of Oregon.. I'm thinking they could be interested in getting someone like him.. He won't start.. but he would be new blood.
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How many more games are the Browns going to win with RGIII at QB in 2012?
Sounds like a fair question to me...
It is NOT a fair question. It is asking someone to predict the future. That's not fair. It's fun to try to do, but it's not a fair question if you are requiring a legit answer.
With all the possible variables in play there is no way to predict the future.
Now if I were to predict the future and say you will disagree with me I'll probably be right. But there are no real variables in play. Just the one fact that once you feel you asked a legit question you never back off of it. 
#gmstrong
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How many more games are the Browns going to win with RGIII at QB in 2012?
Sounds like a fair question to me...
...and since we no longer have first round picks, how do we address wr and RT?...
...anyone?
Based on the last couple drafts. Sam Bradford hasn't translated to wins and neither has Cam Newton. Just the teams picking in the top 10. I would say that Griffin doesn't guarantee any more wins and possibly less. Dalton in Cinci is the exception but next year they could be drafting 2nd for all we know.
2) St. Louis- Sam Bradford #1 overall pick
3)Minnesota-Christian Ponder
5.)Tampa Bay- Freeman
7.)Jacksonville-Blaine Gabbert
9)Carolina- Cam Newton
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Griffin would get wins.. no doubt in my head..
and Cam Newton has resurrected the panthers offense.. they just have to get better as a team.
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Griffin would get wins.. no doubt in my head..
and Cam Newton has resurrected the panthers offense.. they just have to get better as a team.
I was answering the question based on the last couple drafts. It wasn't how the Offense will look or if it gets better, but realistic evidence that show's that it might not translate to wins. I have no doubt in year two that Colt would get wins, so where does that get us? Now if you trade picks and can't address needs and holes and he has to learn how to read an NFL defense and the WCO and work on some of his flaws I can't say he will get us more wins this year.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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This draft just has trade down written all over it. Eagles is the favorite for that trade down right now.
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I wold also add one more thing ...... the universe has a way of rewarding the bold.
Like when the Vikings traded everything for Herschel Walker. Or when the Saints traded everything for Ricky Williams.
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What if Flynn is as overrated as I think he is?
What if Griffin is as overrated as I think he is?
Then what do we do?
What if the team is just good enough to steal one win per year from our divisional opponents, and maybe wind 5-7 games per year for the next 3 years?
Start over?
Try to find a QB from lower in the draft, or maybe have to give up even more at that point ..... if we can find a trading partner?
Sometimes you have the right player, and the right opportunity, and everything aligns for you ... and the universe just waits to see what you'll do .....
Sounds familiar, right? And what's with this universe crap? The universe doesn't care about the Cleveland Browns or any other football team.
How come Colt McCoy can't be the right player, with the right opportunity?
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This draft just has trade down written all over it. Eagles is the favorite for that trade down right now.
I'd love it for the Browns - but who are the Eagles targeting? Blackmon if they lose Jackson?
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Yep. they have been all over Blackmon and they have the buying power to go get him with Desean, Asante and 2 second round picks to work with.
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Yep. they have been all over Blackmon and they have the buying power to go get him with Desean, Asante and 2 second round picks to work with.
I'd be all over it - #4 for #15, #46, #51 is just about equal (1870 for 1800).
With 5 picks in the first two rounds - I'd see us making quite a few trades from there - but we could go get three first round picks that we are targeting.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Yep. they have been all over Blackmon and they have the buying power to go get him with Desean, Asante and 2 second round picks to work with.
I'd be all over it - #4 for #15, #46, #51 is just about equal (1870 for 1800).
With 5 picks in the first two rounds - I'd see us making quite a few trades from there - but we could go get three first round picks that we are targeting.
U guys r NUTS...
Below the top 5 or 6 if u add Blackmon this draft drops...ALOT...
Go Browns!!!
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U guys r NUTS...
Below the top 5 or 6 if u add Blackmon this draft drops...ALOT...
I actually completely disagree - I think (outside of Luck) this is one of the weakest top 5s we've had in years - it's nowhere close to 2011/2010 or 2008/2007, I think it's close to 2009.
Kalil < Thomas, Long and is ~ Williams/Smith
Blackmon < Green, Julio Jones,
Richardson < McFadden/AP
Claiborne < Peterson
But once you get out of the top 5 or so, the quality from draft to draft doesn't change nearly as much.
There are a lot of guys I like more than the "so-called" top 5. For instance:
Ingram > Coples
Floyd > Blackmon
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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I wold also add one more thing ...... the universe has a way of rewarding the bold.
Like when the Vikings traded everything for Herschel Walker. Or when the Saints traded everything for Ricky Williams.
That's why you don't make big moves for RB at the top of a draft. Those weren't bold moves, they were stupid.
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What if Flynn is as overrated as I think he is?
What if Griffin is as overrated as I think he is?
Then what do we do?
What if the team is just good enough to steal one win per year from our divisional opponents, and maybe wind 5-7 games per year for the next 3 years?
Start over?
Try to find a QB from lower in the draft, or maybe have to give up even more at that point ..... if we can find a trading partner?
Sometimes you have the right player, and the right opportunity, and everything aligns for you ... and the universe just waits to see what you'll do .....
Sounds familiar, right? And what's with this universe crap? The universe doesn't care about the Cleveland Browns or any other football team.
How come Colt McCoy can't be the right player, with the right opportunity?
How come Colt McCoy can't be the right player? Because of his physical limitation, and because of the major structural flaws he showed last year. He could do a complete 180 in almost every area ..... and become something that he's never been in his entire career ...... but it's not likely.
If Griffin busts, then we've lost a couple of draft picks. That would suck, it would hurt, but in the end, it's a couple of draft picks.
If Griffin succeeds though ...... he'll succeed in a huge way. The team that he succeeds for will settle its QB situation for the next dozen years with a superstar type player. (IMHO) To me, that's worth the minor risks involved. He has everything a team could want in a QB ..... size, arm, accuracy, speed, leadership, experience, intelligence ...... and more ...... and he has them all in huge amounts. Some may think that he might bust, but I actually see him as a fairly safe pick. You may disagree ...... but I think that the risk is more than worth it ....... and it's a far better risk than trying to build around a deeply flawed QB like Colt McCoy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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You keep beating this drum that Newton hasn't led to more wins ...... but the Panthers went from 32nd ranked offense, to top 10 ....... and they went from 2 wins to 6.
To me, that's leading your team to better results, and more wins. I don't know how you figure "more" ...... but to me 6 is more than 2 ...... and 10th place is better than 32nd place.
Hell, that would be like us going from 4 wins to ....... 12 ...... and from 29th in total offense to top 5 or something. I don't know anyone who would see that happen and complain .......
Blaine Gabbert had a year remarkably similar to Colt McCoy this past year. he threw one more TD than INT ....... yards/attempt in the less than 6 yard range ....... under 60% passing ........
If he's not good enough as a rookie, why is McCoy good enough as a 2nd year player?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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" What if flynn is overrated as you think he is?"
" What if Griffen is overated as I think he is? "
You don't see how a guy with 600 pass attempts can be any good.
I don't see how Griffen with 2 unimpressive bowl performances can be any good.
What if they all suck?
Griffen, Flynn, Tannehill, Luck, Campbell, (Definintely Kolb)
What if Wheeden and some guy from San Diego State are the best two new Qb's this entire year?
If the Browns do draft RG3 and he stinks, what's their plan B. Because if they DO draft RG3 and go and cut ties with McCoy then they'll have a RG3 and be looking for a QB next year.
Or
They could get a Wheeden, or Tannehill, or ? or Flynn, or Campbell, or someone and they could also stink, and McCoy is STILL on the roster and next year they can go looking for a QB and still have more ability to trade one.
OK howso? Perhaps Wheeden, and McCoy are more value to trade one in early 2013, than what you could get for McCoy in late 2012 if you have RG3 and teams know you're looking to dump McCoy. ( That is the assumption I'm making.)
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Because McCoy had to deal with a brand new system, and a lack of talent...
And Gabbert only had to deal with a brand new system, lack of talent, and adjusting to the speed of the NFL game....
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I don't see how Griffen with 2 unimpressive bowl performances can be any good.
Unimpressive? 
Wow ..... you must have watched a different bowl game than I did. What I saw was a defense that sold out to stop the QB/passing game. Despite that, RG3 went 24/33 for 295 yards and a TD. He also had enough control of his ego to see that the running game was working like crazy, and to hand off even when you know that he probably would have preferred to show off. How hard would it have been for him to play action a few of those runs and try to make a play so that he could look good? He didn't though.He put team ahead of pride.
To me that was incredibly impressive.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He also had enough control of his ego to see that the running game was working like crazy, and to hand off even when you know that he probably would have preferred to show off. How hard would it have been for him to play action a few of those runs and try to make a play so that he could look good? He didn't though.He put team ahead of pride.
To me that was incredibly impressive.
Griffin called his own plays in college?
Or are you giving him credit for something his coaches did?
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Not that I know of .... but he was just as happy handing off as he was throwing deep to his receivers.
It's one of the things that impresses me about Luck as well.
These are 2 of the top QBs in college football ...... the expected #1 and #2 picks in the upcoming draft ..... guys who will get paid largely on their ability to throw ...... but they can check their egos and hand the ball off 20 times in a row if that wins a game. They don't whine or complain about it, as a lot of guys might.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I thought the point of being a Quarterback was to break every record? Regardless of current game situations...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I thought the point of being a Quarterback was to break every record? Regardless of current game situations...
Oh yeah .... how foolish of me ........ 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Ah, you made it sound like HE was doing it. But apparently it was his coach calling the plays.
Are you trying to tell me he did what the coach/coaches told him to do, and it worked? And he's "special" because of that?
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Believe the title of this thread is IF the Browns Don't draft RG3... whats their plan B?
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I kind of like Derron Thomas too of Oregon.. I'm thinking they could be interested in getting someone like him.. He won't start.. but he would be new blood.
Man - I had him claimed as my super-sleeper .... we might have to fight to the death.
My backup guy is Olivier Vernon - he's mine, MINE.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 02/25/12 06:21 PM.
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Believe the title of this thread is IF the Browns Don't draft RG3... whats their plan B?
Ah. So if we adhere strictly to the title of the thread: "If the Browns don't draft RG3, what's their plan B"..........the answer is simply: None of us knows. End of discussion. Right? Lock the thread.
But, I'll play along. We don't get him - plan B is stick with Colt, add to the TEAM - and if that means taking Tannehill later, okay I guess. But we fill needs first and foremost. (needs: meaning, we didn't get RG - so we look rec, O line, d.e., corner back or safety, maybe a linebacker.)
But, adhering strictly to the thread title - we don't have a clue what the Browns will do.
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I kind of like Derron Thomas too of Oregon.. I'm thinking they could be interested in getting someone like him.. He won't start.. but he would be new blood.
Man - I had him claimed as my super-sleeper .... we might have to fight to the death.
I was thinking about Derron Thomas from Oregon also. Possibly later round guy to take on a developmental role if we decide to stick with Colt. Thomas has a winning pedigree, very athletic guy, and a decent arm that could potentially improve. He's got upside for sure. But he's definitely less accurate than RG3 and he doesn't play in a pro-style offense at all. So he'll need time to pick up the position, but if we drafted him, we could get him pretty late and he'd have time to learn
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
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Indeed. Since the departure of K2 and BE the Browns have been extremely mediocre in the way of receivers. If the Browns give up #4, #22, +1 more for RG3, I would consider that a HUGE mistake. There are plenty of holes that can be addressed. We need to get as many opening day starters out of this draft as possible. Quote:
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keep McCoy starting another year (with or w/o a mid-round QB drafted)
I will be so unhappy that I will have to self impose a ban from the board if that happens.
That's funny, I feel the exact same way except about us drafting RG3. Needless to say I'm prepared for the worst.
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You do get that, don't you?
Here's what I get......
The guys that are in love with RG3 are constantly saying things like, "They better get him" or "They're morons if they let this guy slip by".
But they overlook the fact that the draft is a crap shoot, number one.
Number two, while RG3 is quite an athlete he's in the mold of Michael Vick who spends 5 or 6 games every year on the bench nursing injuries. Will Griffin? Who knows, but it's risky to mortgage the entire draft to find out, IMO.
I could probably find more stuff regarding RG3 to nit pick at by why bother? It's not his talent I question. Or his intelligence or heart. I think he'll be a decent QB. I just don't think we need to trade away all our top picks this year to get the guy.
I also get that Ytown isn't going anywhere if we don't draft RG3. But I disagree with the premise that not picking him will irreparably damage anyone's reputation. Sure, if he makes the next 3 Pro Bowls or takes his team to the Super Bowl in his first year some in the media and on here will delight in pointing that out as often as humanly possible. But ass on the line or reputations down the toilet?.....Not over one player, unless that player is Peyton Manning. And this kid ain't Peyton Manning.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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People want to compare RG3 to Vick, but they really are not similar QBs. Michael Vick threw for 3000 or so yards in his 2 year college career. He completed only 56% of his passes. He threw 20 TD passes in college. He only had 342 total pass attempts in college. Michael Vick was all projection based on dual threat physical ability, and was a novice passer in many ways. I think that people compare RG3 to Vick because both guys can run, have strong arms, and both are black QBs. Their college production in games is really not even remotely similar. RG3 is heads, shoulders, and kneecaps above Vick as a passer coming into the NFL. Vick threw for 3000 yards in college. RG3 threw for over 10,000. Vick threw 342 passes in college. RG3 threw 1192. Vick threw 20 TD passes in college. RG3 threw 78. Vick threw 11 INT in his 342 pass attempts. RG3 threw 17 in 1192 pass attempts. There is no comparison between the 2 as far as passing proficiency and ability go. RG3 is a far more polished passer, and a far more accomplished passer. He is a far more experienced QB. He is also considerably taller. lol (since that was so important ..... until it wasn't)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Just curious.
What type of offense did Michael Vick run and Virginia Tech compared to the one RGIII ran at Baylor? If Vick was in a similar offense would he have put up the huge numbers that Griffin did?
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
It's not about systems, it's about time to get better, RG3 has had time to grow and become a better passer...
Vick burst onto the scene, and used his "man among boys" talents and never NEEDED to get better... At that level anyways...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,958
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,958 |
Quote:
It's not about systems, it's about time to get better, RG3 has had time to grow and become a better passer...
Vick burst onto the scene, and used his "man among boys" talents and never NEEDED to get better... At that level anyways...
And Vick was drafted on potential as much as anything else. He never really did much at the college level as a passer. He came out as a sophomore. He lacked maturity. He didn;t have much as far as experience behind him in college. He did exactly as you said ..... got by on raw talent.
RG3 has developed and improved as the years have gone by. He has gotten better and better, and worked on the things he needed to work on. His weaknesses and limitations have improved each year. He is a true student of the game, and works hard on his own game.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Quote:
It's not about systems, it's about time to get better, RG3 has had time to grow and become a better passer...
Vick burst onto the scene, and used his "man among boys" talents and never NEEDED to get better... At that level anyways...
And Vick was drafted on potential as much as anything else. He never really did much at the college level as a passer. He came out as a sophomore. He lacked maturity. He didn;t have much as far as experience behind him in college. He did exactly as you said ..... got by on raw talent.
RG3 has developed and improved as the years have gone by. He has gotten better and better, and worked on the things he needed to work on. His weaknesses and limitations have improved each year. He is a true student of the game, and works hard on his own game.
Do me a favor, if we end up drafting this kid, go buy his jersey and do a "factory of Happiness" video for us!
#GMSTRONG
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,958
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,958 |
LOL I may hurt myself doing a happy dance. That would be a nice change though ..... usually I hurt myself because of horrible Browns doings.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,065 |
I told my dad the other day if we come out of this offseason with a new starting QB (Luck(ha) RG3 or Flynn) I was going to buy their jersey IMMEDIATELY... I always put off buying jerseys, so I'm looking for a counter jinx type thing...
Last edited by OSGuy; 02/25/12 09:46 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) If the Browns don't draft
RG3..whats their "Plan B?"
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