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Both Manning and Rivers had already been picked, and they swapped #1 for #4 (where NY was)
Last edited by OSGuy; 02/28/12 08:04 PM.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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We have had 2 great "eras" in the past 30 years. (and one of those was really short)
We had the Sipe Era ..... which included the Kardiac Kids, and which ended when the powers that were thought that Paul McDonald could easily step in for Brian Sipe ...... and so they didn't even try to keep Sipe when he was planning on jumping to the USFL.
That led to the beginning of, and quick end of the Paul McDonald era ......... as well as to the end of Rutigliano as head coach ......
Shortly afterwards, the Bernie Kosar era began.
We have had 2 above average QBs in the past 30 years. 2.
That's appalling.
We've also had 2 decent to good runs during that time frame.
That's not surprising.
Our only 2 decent to good runs during the past 30 years were when we actually had a good QB .... an effective QB ...... a QB who could attack a defense .......
When we don't .... well, then we get what we have gotten for most of the past 30 years. (Man, that's depressing)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Pretty much proof positive that if you don't has a good QB, you are going to have a tough go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
Both Manning and Rivers had already been picked, and they swapped #1 for #4 (where NY was)
That sounds right....thanks.
Like I said, I don't have a problem with the price if we rate him out as that type of player.
And....that 3rd rounder shouldn't be this year..All the other team get to defer a pick....so should we, and since we are giving the extra first this year, which provides the benefit of earlier return, I think we could leverage that in to a 4th next year. If not, I can live without a 3rd rounder next year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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#4 #22 2012 4th 2013 3rd IMO that's my top offer, I could be convinced to switch out the 3rd and 4ths but I'd want stuff in return... And unless Washington does litterally offer "the farm" that tops anything they have going... And guess what, WE'D STILL HAVE FREE AGENCY AND OTHER DRAFT PICKS... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
#4
#22
2012 4th
2013 3rd
IMO that's my top offer, I could be convinced to switch out the 3rd and 4ths but I'd want stuff in return...
And unless Washington does litterally offer "the farm" that tops anything they have going...
And guess what, WE'D STILL HAVE FREE AGENCY AND OTHER DRAFT PICKS...
And I might go more than that ..... if I absolutely had to. I certainly wouldn't let them know it right now though.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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But (not disagreeing with you by the way) ... what's the ceiling that you and everyone would go?
For all we know Washington doesn't want the guy. For all we know they want us to draft him so that THEY can go after Flynn. I know it's silly season after all ... so just humor me on that.
What if they want US out of the picture so they are trying to drive up the price. They wouldn't even give up more than another first for Griffin. To be fair we don't know their plans. All 3 camps (browns, miami, and washington) have been pretty hush hush about it officially.
So let's say Washington won't bid and REALISTICALLY St. Louis would trade with us for a little over a single first rounder. If we say "#4 and #37" they are thinking about it because they get a high second AND still get Blackmon / Kalil if they want.
But because we are so infatuated with this guy ... can they just say "well Washington just countered with this ... what else can you give us?"
I am to the point where I like Griffin but every ... and I mean EVERY player or pick has it's price.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
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Flynn is going to be signed a month before the draft...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Right.
But St. Louis wants the deal done before Free agency begins. As soon as another QB hits the market ... or is signed by us / washington / miami then the price drops.
Some "analysts" have even said the #2 pick could be moved in the next few days based solely upon the fact that the value won't go up. PLUS it is only going to drop.
If St. Louis waits for Washington to sign Peyton or us to sign Flynn then the demand decreases and the price for #2 drops.
So if THEY want it gone asap to lock in their extra picks... and Washington pretends they are offering a lot then it could force us to panic and go "GAHHHH! we need to move now!" Meanwhile ... old buddies Shannahan and Fisher get to move on happy. Fisher gets picks and Shanny has a clear path to Flynn if he wants him with the only other suitor being Miami most likely.
So ... don't forget that timing is important too.
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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We'd be absolute morons to move now and I do not believe H&H to be absolute morons.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
what's the ceiling that you and everyone would go?
#4
#37 (2nd)
#100 (4th)
2013 4th rounder
That's what I would consider, and I still don't know that I'd pull the trigger.
No way that would get it done, but that's about all I'd be willing to risk.
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I don't really know.
Would I go both 1st this year and next year's #2? Probably. Would I go more than that? Maybe ...... but I'd have to be pretty certain that someone else' s offer would blow that out of the water ...... and I don't think that it will.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
We'd be absolute morons to move now and I do not believe H&H to be absolute morons.
#gmstrong
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I would swap #2 and #4 (on draft day that is) and...
- a) not touch next year's 1st, 2nd and 3rd as I think we won't win more than 8 games in 2013 no matter who plays
- b) give them #22 + 3rd+4th as max offer
- c) agree to #22+#37 IF we get back a 4th from STL(basically swapping #37 and #96...for me #37 is as valuable as #68+#96+#100 in THIS particular draft)
- d) if we do b), I'd look to trade that #37 for either 2 picks in the #50-#75 range or "punt" it for a 1st (plus maybe a 5th this) next draft
- e) if we do c), I'd look to trade back up into the 2nd from #68 using 1 or 2 of the 3 4th rounders for a player we targeted for pick #37 and is falling, or use 2 4ths to get back into the 3rd etc...if we dont do that and let the board come to us, I'd def. do a "NE-type" trade, as in give up a 4th for next year's 3rd from someone
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Quote:
they also traded two firsts, a third, and a fifth to get him.
Great! Look at the list of how the QBs did this season.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?t...mp;d-447263-n=1
Manning is the only QB whose team traded for him that way and who made the playoffs. The only other QB that was acquired in a similar manner is Carson Palmer for Oakland and that hasn't been determined yet and I don't know anyone who thinks that Oakland got the better part of that deal but I'm sure there is someone out there that I haven't met yet.
Of the top dozen QBs last year, Manning was the only QB to have been acquired in such a manner.
1. Brees was acquired in free agency.
2. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round.
3. Matthew Stafford was drafted by the team with the 1st overall pick.
4. Eli Manning was traded for as noted.
5. Aaron Rodgers was drafted by the team who had the pick where he was drafted.
6. Philip Rivers was acquired in the Eli Manning trade.
7. Tony Romo was acquired as an UDFA.
8. Matt Ryan was drafted by the team that held the pick.
9. Ben Roethlisberger was drafted by the team that held the pick.
10. Cam Newton was drafted by the team that held the 1st overall pick.
11. Ryan Fitzpatrick was acquired in free agency.
12. Joe Flacco was drafted by the Ravens who actually dropped back to select him. They originally held the 8th overall selection after going 5-11 with Boller as their QB.
So, tell me how important moving up to get a QB like RG3 actually is to a franchise?
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Didn't the Ravens trade back, the back up to get Flacco?
And I'm not really sure what your point is, or what the Eli/Rivers trade has to do with RG3..
If the Colts drafted Luck, and we draft RG3, and then swap them, then I'd see a correlation...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It's almost if all the rules have been conveniently changed to suit the (emotional) moment.
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Quote:
Didn't the Ravens trade back, the back up to get Flacco?
And I'm not really sure what your point is, or what the Eli/Rivers trade has to do with RG3..
If the Colts drafted Luck, and we draft RG3, and then swap them, then I'd see a correlation...
I think the point is that you can find a franchise QB outside of the top 5 picks in the Draft and you don't necessarily have to trade up to the 'top' of the draft either.
The Ravens did traded up for Flacco at #18 IIRC. That's somewhat different then saying you need to draft up to the top of the draft or bust.
I think his point was well illustrated.
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Indeed, the Ravens did trade back and then traded up to get Flacco, but they got him 10 spots lower than their original draft selection.
The point with the Manning/Rivers connection is that others are bringing up that the NYG gave up 2 first rounders and more to acquire him.
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So in the only example of trading multiple firsts you can really show... The team that traded AWAY the first round picks has won two Super Bowls... 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
So in the only example of trading multiple firsts you can really show...
The team that traded AWAY the first round picks has won two Super Bowls...
well, SD has tried it both ways (giving away multiple high picks, getting multiple high picks). they've yet to have any real playoff success.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
So in the only example of trading multiple firsts you can really show...
The team that traded AWAY the first round picks has won two Super Bowls...
Well ... San Diego traded up for a guy named Ryan Leaf.... gave up 2 firsts, a second, and a guy named Eric Metcalf....
And some thought he had more upside than the guy who went #1 ... Pete Manning or something ... 
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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I wasn't aware SD traded up for Leaf... Ugh... I didn't realize that could be any worse...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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haha wow ... well at least they got Eli a few years after they missed out on his brother and ... oh ... wow... n/m 
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let's not forget that they also traded away Michael Vick in the top 5
both times they traded down, it could be argued they won. Brees+Tomlinson the first time. Rivers+Merriman the second time.
they got more than that both times, but those are the main assets they acquired.
#gmstrong
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a2d and FL, the point was that someone was trying to use the Giants as a reason to keep our picks. It seemed like the worst possible choice as an example, as they gave up two firsts, a third, and a fifth for the guy that led them to two 4th-quarter comeback Super Bowl wins and really magnificant playoff performances.
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a2d and FL, the point was that someone was trying to use the Giants as a reason to keep our picks. It seemed like the worst possible choice as an example, as they gave up two firsts, a third, and a fifth for the guy that led them to two 4th-quarter comeback Super Bowl wins and really magnificant playoff performances.
Man, I'd hate it if that's all we got ........  lol 
(Yeah, that's sarcasm people)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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But St. Louis wants the deal done before Free agency begins.
Says who???...Schefter???...
The Rams may want it done...And I'd bet anything that the Browns Brass has specifically told the Rams to contact US before u make any move...And they will because we hold the best package available to them...
Conversely...And this is HUGE on the part of the team wanting to move to 2...
We've got 8 weeks till draft day...That's a long time...Lots of working out and a Pro Day for Griff...And we've seen this before...What if he rips an Achilles or an ACL???...Do u still want em' at 2???
U don't get your picks back...And u sure as hell aren't spending that much to move to 2 for Kalil...
Moving NOW is a dangerous game...Regardless how much the Rams might want it...Maybe a day or 2 before the draft but NO WAY I do it now...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
#4
#22
2012 4th
2013 3rd
IMO that's my top offer, I could be convinced to switch out the 3rd and 4ths but I'd want stuff in return...
And unless Washington does litterally offer "the farm" that tops anything they have going...
And guess what, WE'D STILL HAVE FREE AGENCY AND OTHER DRAFT PICKS...
I wouldn't spread it out past next season. After a nights rest I almost think just be done with it this year. The only round we would be without a pick is round 3.
Just do it and be done.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I agree, let the Rams take the risk Griffin gets hurt during this workout silly season.
I don't want to make a move until it is closer to the time we can have some say in what he does and doesn't do.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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One thing to keep in mind also is this .....
It's not only about Griffin potentially suffering some career ending injury before the draft, but Luck as well. If Luck were to suffer some horrible injury, then the Colts would simply move on to RG3, and someone trading for the 2nd pick would, again, be holding a damned expensive #2 pick with no value at all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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They said on ESPN last night that the Skins want to get a deal done, so they know if they have to chase a FA QB or not...
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They said on ESPN last night that the Skins want to get a deal done, so they know if they have to chase a FA QB or not...
That's what I was thinking. It makes more sense for a team like us or the Skins wanting to get something done.
As long as we don't do anything, and still show some interest, the deal won't happen this soon.
I think
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
They said on ESPN last night that the Skins want to get a deal done, so they know if they have to chase a FA QB or not...
"Good", I say the skins and rams need to Get 'er Done, so we can restore some sanity among Browns fans... ... 
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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"Good", I say the skins and rams need to Get 'er Done, so we can restore some sanity among Browns fans...
Ya really think thats gonna happen mac....
Wait till the other half finds out RG3 was never a choice, just a smoke screen...Wow are we gonna hear the screaming now.... 
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Quote:
Quote:
"Good", I say the skins and rams need to Get 'er Done, so we can restore some sanity among Browns fans...
Ya really think thats gonna happen mac....
Wait till the other half finds out RG3 was never a choice, just a smoke screen...Wow are we gonna hear the screaming now....
Clay...I doubt the insanity suddenly goes away...
If RGIII becomes Redskin, our cheerleaders will go back to blaming everything that has happened to the Browns since 1999, on Colt McCoy.
If the Browns don't trade the farm for RGIII, the cheerleaders will find a way to blame McCoy for that too.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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So in the only example of trading multiple firsts you can really show...
The team that traded AWAY the first round picks has won two Super Bowls...
Sure, if you want. The teams that haven't have won 7 Super Bowls (Brady x 3, Roethlisberger x 2, Rodgers x 1, Brees x 1).
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Quote:
Quote:
But St. Louis wants the deal done before Free agency begins.
Says who???...Schefter???...
The Rams may want it done...And I'd bet anything that the Browns Brass has specifically told the Rams to contact US before u make any move...And they will because we hold the best package available to them...
Conversely...And this is HUGE on the part of the team wanting to move to 2...
We've got 8 weeks till draft day...That's a long time...Lots of working out and a Pro Day for Griff...And we've seen this before...What if he rips an Achilles or an ACL???...Do u still want em' at 2???
U don't get your picks back...And u sure as hell aren't spending that much to move to 2 for Kalil...
Moving NOW is a dangerous game...Regardless how much the Rams might want it...Maybe a day or 2 before the draft but NO WAY I do it now...
Actually, to me it makes a metric crapload of sense that the Rams want the deal done now. Their position will not improve over time. Free agency can absolutely ruin it, though.
Say Manning goes to Washington (and I've seen on here that he wouldn't want to play his brother twice a year. Why not? He's a competitor) and Flynn goes to Miami. Now St. Louis is the girl at the dance no one decent wants to talk to. Now they are only entertaining offers from those in the middle part of the round, as we are the only team picking ahead of Seattle that would be interested in thier pick. Now we can offer them a token price, to swap places with them. Otherwise we sit tight and see if someone is willing to pay whatever price it takes to move up from the middle part of the round to #2, and see if St. Louis really wants to drop that far.
I can't imagine St. Louis can find anyone to be willing to pull the trigger on this trade before the pick is on the clock. Makes no sense to me.
Last edited by CapCity Dawg; 02/29/12 08:30 AM.
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Quote:
a2d and FL, the point was that someone was trying to use the Giants as a reason to keep our picks. It seemed like the worst possible choice as an example, as they gave up two firsts, a third, and a fifth for the guy that led them to two 4th-quarter comeback Super Bowl wins and really magnificant playoff performances.
I am fully aware of what the point was and my post was to counter that argument. If you want RG3, your chances that he's the guy is legit if you get him at #4 rather than taking him at #2 and giving up a bunch of high draft picks for him.
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