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Im not sold on Flynn either but he IS an upgrade over McCoy but I still would prefer an upgrade via draft, as I'm not sure he's worth the 2 season it takes "to find out" yet again
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Im not sold on Flynn either but he IS an upgrade over McCoy but I still would prefer an upgrade via draft, as I'm not sure he's worth the 2 season it takes "to find out" yet again
DJ...you are not sold on Flynn, who has been with the Packers, learning their WCO, for 4 yrs...
....but you are totally sold on RGIII who has never played against a NFL quality defense.
...you are totally sold on RGIII, who played against college defenses that ranked nearer to the bottom than the top of NCAA defenses.
....not sure Flynn worth the 2 season it takes "to find out"?...if the Browns add a QB and he becomes the starter, regardless of who it is, the Browns have no choice but to invest time to see if the guy can be "the guy".
BUT...the beauty of going the free agent route, signing Flynn in this case...if after 2 seasons Flynn does not pan out, the Browns can cut him without losing a thing, other than the salary agreed upon.
...if the Browns trade up for RGIII, he would probably sit the first season or most of the first season. It would take another season, very likely as the starter, to know if he can be "the guy". This means you would have about the same amount of time invested, regardless if the Browns draft RGIII or sign Flynn.
...but look at what the Browns have lost if RGIII turns out, not to be "the guy"...look at the damage done to the rebuilding program, if RGIII turns out, not to be the guy. The loss of first round draft picks (and more) and getting nothing in return.
The rebuild program would be set back at least two seasons if RGIII fails to deliver.
Both QBs would cost the Browns "time" to find out if they can become "the guy". But if Flynn should fail, the Browns lose money...if RGIII fails, the Browns lose the draft picks needed to make the rebuilding plan successful, resulting in the Browns rebuild project being set back by years.
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While your points are well taken, they're still not very relevant.
Let's take a different look at it. What if both players are successes.
Matt Flynn costs you money and nothing else. If he succeeds, isn't he worth the money he was paid?
RG3 will cost money and picks. If he succeeds, he'll be worth the money he was paid, but will he have been worth the picks that were given up to acquire him? The questions would be asked: Could have have been selected at #4 without giving up the picks? Would he have been more successful with the players that could have been acquired with the picks surrendered to move up and select him?
Truth is that we don't know what will be the outcome. I'm not even sure the the monetary payout for Flynn will be all that much greater than for RG3. I'm not convinced that Flynn will get the 5-year, $50 million deal that people are suggesting.
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RGIII who has never played against a NFL quality defense.
By far my biggest concern. Of their 12 FBS opponents last year (they had one FCS opponent), two gave up 350 yards or less per game. Six gave up 400+ per game, including Kansas who gave up over 500 yards per game.
The worst defense RG3 sees in the NFL will be better than any defense he's seen in college, by a long shot.
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....but you are totally sold on RGIII who has never played against a NFL quality defense.
Neither has Flynn.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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The worst defense RG3 sees in the NFL will be better than any defense he's seen in college, by a long shot.
Can't we say that about every QB who has ever come out of college...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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....but you are totally sold on RGIII who has never played against a NFL quality defense.
Neither has Flynn.
OK, that one doesn't make sense..... sorry.
A Belichick defense is a confusing defense.
The lions had alot to play for- and he torched them.
And don't forget, he practices against a very good defense as well.
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To a degree, I'm sure. Still, a "man among boys" running QB whose opponents give up an average of 400+ yards per game doesn't give you any cause for concern? I'm not saying I would pass on him because of it, but it would certainly raise my eyebrows a bit. He's not going to be able to rely on his legs to keep himself out of trouble in the NFL or he's going to be playing less than 10 games per season because he's not big enough to take the punishment that a guy like Roethlisberger can.
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There's that label on Griffin again: A "running" QB.
The video's are all right there to see. He isn't a run-first QB. He's a passer first. Even when he does break contain, he more times than not is looking downfield for a receiver.
For the record, I don't worry about his scrambling. That's a huge bonus to me. What I worry about is his instincts on not knowing how to avoid hits, just like Vick. THAT'S my big concern.
Bigf00t (I saw they are looking for you on the History channel  ) the Lions and the Pats were suffering defensively. McCoy would have looked like a pro-bowler against those two teams if he got to play them with the weapons that Flynn had there.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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running =/= run-first
I know he's not a run-first QB. He still relies on his legs to get himself out of trouble more than a prototypical pocket passer. And he must have done a little bit of running if he had 699 rushing yards last season.
The point is, one of RG3's biggest assets is his speed and ability to take off and run with the ball if he has to, but he's not going to be able to do that against top NFL defenses (which he will face if he plays for the Browns) the way he could against the inferior defenses, even by NCAA standards, that he faced in college. The defenses are bigger, faster, stronger and will hit harder. So the question is, will he be able to adapt or will he take off under pressure and get banged up and miss time?
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Bigf00t (I saw they are looking for you on the History channel ) the Lions and the Pats were suffering defensively. McCoy would have looked like a pro-bowler against those two teams if he got to play them with the weapons that Flynn had there.
What? Stop the presses, you mean that if Colt had more weapons he would win games and the Colt O Meter would go up? 
If you need 3 years to be a winner you got here 2 years to early. Get it done Browns.
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If I had those weapons, the Colt-o-meter would read the same as the Toad-o-meter 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think it is a lock with Flynn reuniting with Philbin. Manning to Seattle and Flynn to Miami would make me a very happy camper.
I don't know where the FA QB's this year will eventually land, but Philbin [Miami] would know from his experience in GB with Flynn, how to best use his talents and maximize his effectiveness. Flynn might not have a great body of work for the rest of the football world, but Philbin will know from having him in training camps and practices over the years, just how Flynn can be used effectively. Seattle will probably not go down without a fight.
It's conceivable that Flynn could chose a lesser offer in exchange for what he might consider a better opportunity to excel and be successful going forward.
The Redskins I think are the key to whether or not a trade for Griffen will be made.
There could be a team not on the radar that could be a surprise player, but I think it could come down to how much they are willing to offer.
We don't need to act, but we can react if we so wish.
Your surprise team is none other than the Jets.
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"if the Browns trade up for RGIII, he would probably sit the first season or most of the first season"
I kind of doubt if we go up to 2 to get ANYONE he will sit most of the year. I would expect him to start day one. No way he sits for more than a quarter in the first preseason game. Dalton, Newton, etc, etc all started but we sit RGIII ?
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"if the Browns trade up for RGIII, he would probably sit the first season or most of the first season"
I kind of doubt if we go up to 2 to get ANYONE he will sit most of the year. I would expect him to start day one. No way he sits for more than a quarter in the first preseason game. Dalton, Newton, etc, etc all started but we sit RGIII ?
If we go up to get anyone, they'll start from day one if they beat McCoy.. if they don't beat him,,, wow...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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....but you are totally sold on RGIII who has never played against a NFL quality defense.
Neither has Flynn.
Toad...you know your claim that Flynn has not played against NFL quality defenses, is not true...so why say that?
Flynn started against the Patriots in 2010 and played well and in his most recent start, against the Lions in the last game of the 2011 regular season. The Lions defense ranked 23rd in the NFL overall in 2011 and their pass defense ranked 22nd (after Flynn's performance).
While the Packers may not have had much to play for in this game, the Lions were fighting for the 5th seed in the playoffs, which they owned going into the last game of the year. Beat the Packers and the Lions would likely play the winner of the Giants/Cowboys game.
...lose to the Packers and the Lions would likely face the 49ers or the Saints. The Saints were the hottest team going into the playoffs, with an 8 game winning streak.
toad...don't try to tell me the Lions laid down for Flynn and that his performance against the Lions was tainted. I watched that game and it was clear to me that Detroit was doing all they could to win the game. If the Lions were not trying to do all the could to win game, why would they play their starting QB, Stafford for the entire game?
Fact is RGIII made a career out of feasting on some of the weakest pass defenses in the NCAA.
Here are the NCAA Division 1 pass defense rankings for teams in the Big 12, for the 2011 season.
TEAMS.......DEF PASS RANK
Oklahoma State...107..
Kansas State.......103..
Baylor..................118
Oklahoma..............79..
Missouri.................94..
Texas....................42..
Texas A&M..........109..
Iowa State.............73..
Texas Tech............66..
Kansas................110..
*NCAA ranks football stats for 120 Div 1 teams
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Not to argue Toad's points.. ( it makes me feel like a traitor  ) BUT, I think where most of us are coming from as far QB talent and why we want a change, is just based on what we see with our eyes as far as raw talent.
We look at Colts body of work in live action and see other QB's body of work and see a difference in the basic skills and instincts. I love Colt, nothing would make me happier than to have him come back to start or take over for someone else that failed, and light the league up. Like Brady did to Bledsloe. BUT.. I'm TIRED of waiting and I don't see the same basic skillset in Colt that RGIII posseses already. The arm is better, the legs are better, he's smart as heck and excites everyone around him.
Is it all potential ? SURE ! But he has MORE basic skills and a better chance to excel because of it in a lot shorter time. I don't care if we draft RGIII and sign Flynn and keep Colt.. I want to FIX the position and will take a few chances to do it.
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And to follow up with my post from the Draft forum:
My Draft nightmare is doing anything that doesn't get us at least ONE stud playmaker on the O side of the ball. Someone other teams have to prepare for each and every week.
I'm sick of the pathetic display on offense and the lack of playmakers anywhere on that side of the ball. Some teams have a player or players that play on crummy teams yet you STILL see the great talent and desire that player has when the ball is in his hands..
We have NONE of those. NO excitement, NO anticipation of greatness, NO faith or following in ANYONE that merits anything other than "he has potential" at best.
Say what you want.. but this team NEEDS some excitement, some national press coverage that isn't a Madden joke or a debate about head injuries. Take a chance, I don't care if it's QB, WR or RB. We need a PLAYMAKER, period. The Browns are really close to becoming the new Ohio Bungals and I'm sick of "filling in the roster" while I see the other AFC north teams with QB/WR combos that make ours look like a joke.
Yea Mike.. The Browns will always have fans.. but NO relationship is immune to the constant heart break and disapointment the Browns fans have indured over the years. Watching the Browns these last few years is like going through a multi year divorce, knowing the misery will never end and it always seems to get worse.
You and Pat say "you get it"... So go get IT
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Toad...you know your claim that Flynn has not played against NFL quality defenses, is not true...so why say that? Flynn started against the Patriots in 2010 and played well and in his most recent start, against the Lions in the last game of the 2011 regular season.
Sorry, but I know it's true. It's you who doesn't have a grasp of the reality of those two defenses.
That's the problem with the use of stats as your only means of comprehending an entire landscape, or falling into the trap of relying on reputation.
On the surface, "OMG! Flynn beat Bellichek's Pats!" but they ranked 30th against the pass. They stunk.
The Lions were a playoff team. They must have been good, right?
Hardly.
First and foremost, yup, they ranked 22nd against the pass. That really isn't very good. But again, that doesn't tell the story. For the Lions at the end of the season, the story got MUCH worse.
Let me give you a quote:
Lions defense ravaged by injuries
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"We finished off on a bad note defensively, but in my opinion, it shouldn't be an overhang about where we are defensively. When we're healthy and humming we have a pretty good defense."
Mayhew said injuries, not deficiencies, played a bigger part in the late-season lapses on defense.
"If you go back to last year, when we had our eight pass rushers going we were pretty good on defense," he said.
"We had our eight guys and then when Lawrence (Jackson) got hurt and Willie Young got hurt, we had a lot more guys playing a lot more reps. We played Fluellen at defensive end and then (Ndamukong) Suh got suspended. Really, we didn't have that same energy upfront we had earlier in the season.
"And then (Louis) Delmas goes down and Delmas still wasn't 100 percent in the playoff game. We had guys playing hurt, Amari Spievey was playing with a knee injury, Chris Houston missed some time with injury."
Mayhew said he wasn't going to let those last two games impact his approach to this offseason. When healthy, the Lions were a good defense in Mayhew's opinion, and the biggest need moving forward is depth. The Lions were a top 15 defense before the injuries.
"Depth is really important and staying healthy is really important," he said. "Depth is certainly something that's of concern for us. We just have to get everybody healthy and humming and going in the right direction and we'll be fine.
"Those two games won't determine our offseason plan and haven't determined our offseason plan.
For the record and to put things into proper perspective, the Lions were so ravaged by injuries that Fluellen, who is a DT with a grand total of 11 tackles in 2011, had to be moved out to DE.
So let's stop pretending Flynn did great work against great defenses. They were anything but. Quote:
I watched that game and it was clear to me that Detroit was doing all they could to win the game.
So you watched the game, eh? Then one of two things has happened: Either you knew the Lions were down several players due to injuries and decided to ignore that fact in the hopes of glossing over posters, or in spite of watching the game you had no idea the Lions were down on talent, in which case your opinion is uninformed.
I'll let you decide how that played out.
Forming an opinion on Flynn based on two starts...with those weapons...against those two beaten-down defenses...is very risky business. Depending on the contract he wants, it may even be foolish business.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad...no comment about the defensive pass ranking of the Big 12 teams Griffin's career stats are based on?
Concerning the "RAVAGED" Lions defense...
Most NFL teams are dinged up when they get to the last game of the regular season, as some guys are out and some play hurt, that is not news to anyone. How much of a drop off is there from those filling compared to the starters is more important and to a large extent, depends on how many years the backup has been in the NFL. Face it, if you can't play, you don't stay in the NFL past a couple of years if you can't play.
But, to claim the Lions defense was "ravaged" by injuries is a little bit of a stretch. They did have to play with 3 of they #2 defensive players but none of those guys were rookies, so it's not like they were chopped liver.
Getting back to this claim that the Lions were "RAVAGED"...I read through the article, I could not find a headline or comment that said.... "Lions defense ravaged by injuries"
Toad...you "made up" that headline, didn't you?
The part about the Lions being so "ravaged" by injuries that DT Fuellen had to play..he subbed against the Packers, he did not start. I believe the article might be referring to the period of time when Suh was suspended or at a time earlier in the season, but not in the game against the Packers.
Below is the starting lineup for the Lions when they played against the Packers in the last game of the regular season. The Lions had to start 3 of the #2 defensive guys, which was likely better than most teams going into the last game.
For the record, I said the Lions pass defense ranked 22nd and never claimed Flynn played against a great defense"..did I?
Kyle Vanden Bosch ...#1 DE
Cliff Avril ...................#1 DE
Sammie Lee Hill ........#2 DT-3yrs experience
Ndamukong Suh ........#1 DT
DeAndre Levy ............#1 LB
Justin Durant .............#1 LB
Stephen Tulloch .........#1 LB
Alphonso Smith ........#2 RCB-3yrs experience
Chris Harris ...............#2 SS-7yrs experience
Amari Spievey ............#1 SS
Eric Wright ................#1 LCB
BIG 12 NCAA DEFENSIVE PASS RANKINGS...
Fact is RGIII made a career out of feasting on some of the weakest pass defenses in the NCAA.
Here are the NCAA Division 1 pass defense rankings for teams in the Big 12, for the 2011 season.
TEAMS.......DEF PASS RANK
Oklahoma State...107..
Kansas State.......103..
Baylor..................118
Oklahoma..............79..
Missouri.................94..
Texas....................42..
Texas A&M..........109..
Iowa State.............73..
Texas Tech............66..
Kansas................110..
*NCAA ranks football stats for 120 Div 1 teams
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Bigf00t (I saw they are looking for you on the History channel )
the Lions and the Pats were suffering defensively. McCoy would have looked like a pro-bowler against those two teams if he got to play them with the weapons that Flynn had there.
I love those shows (my wife just rolls her eyes)- bigfoot is an elusive critter
Flynn has played against better competion, it just can't be denied.
I would be really shocked if he signed with the browns. He reaks of Dolphin smell. Headlines will read, in worse kept secret ever- Flynn reunites with Philbin.
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In the 2nd half of last season, plus one playoff game, the Lions allowed: 37, 35, 27, 31, 28, 27, 10, 45, and another 45 to the Saints in the playoffs.
Ravaged, sucked, were horrible, couldn't stop anyone ....... however you care to put it, the Lions defense was awful much of last year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Toad...no comment about the defensive pass ranking of the Big 12 teams Griffin's career stats are based on?
Again and again and again...you argue against points that nobody is making. 
I'm not debating Griffin or Flynn. YOU are. I'm arguing against the fallacy that Flynn has "proven" himself after two starts in the NFL. 
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Toad...you "made up" that headline, didn't you?
We write in whatever we want to write in there. I could have typed Aloicious Pumpkin Mash and nobody would have cared.  If there was some kind of deception there, I wouldn't have gone ahead and done YOU and the board the favor of copying/pasting the article.
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For the record, I said the Lions pass defense ranked 22nd and never claimed Flynn played against a great defense"..did I?
You stated he played against quality defenses, which has now been debunked. Spin it however you like, but the truth is now out there for everyone to see.
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Fact is RGIII made a career out of feasting on some of the weakest pass defenses in the NCAA.
Back to arguing points I'm not making.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Again and again and again...you argue against points that nobody is making.
toad...no doubt about it, I'm debating points others shy away from or may not have considered...and in this case, that chart of where Big 12 defenses ranked in pass defense should be a concern for any team considering a Big 12 QB in this draft.
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We write in whatever we want to write in there.
toad...if someone is looking to hype a point that might not be true or accurate, you might write "Lions defense ravaged by injuries "
But the Lions were only down 3 starters which is hardly "ravaged by injuries".
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Quote:
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For the record, I said the Lions pass defense ranked 22nd and never claimed Flynn played against a great defense"..did I?
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You stated he played against quality defenses, which has now been debunked. Spin it however you like, but the truth is now out there for everyone to see.
toad...I stand by my comment, Flynn played against a quality defense.
More specifically, the 22 ranking for the Detroit pass defense is "after" they had been torched by Flynn for 480 yds. After Flynn's game, the Lions defense ranked 22nd giving up an average 239 yds per game.
I believe it is safe to say, the Lions pass defense ranked considerably better, going into the Green Bay game. Flynn doubled what the Lions gave up per game, "after" his 480 passing yds.
The Lions pass defense before being torched for 480 yds by Flynn might have been closer to the 12th ranked pass defense...does that make the Lions a "quality defense"?
Even if we want to rely on the stats after being torched by Flynn, the Lions pass defense ranked 22nd. The 22nd ranked pass defense is not the 32nd pass defense. How good was Flynn's performance against the Lions...Flynn doubled (480yds) the Lions pass defense average of 239 yds per game, after his performance was added into the stat averages.
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More specifically, the 22 ranking for the Detroit pass defense is "after" they had been torched by Flynn for 480 yds. After Flynn's game, the Lions defense ranked 22nd giving up an average 239 yds per game.
I believe it is safe to say, the Lions pass defense ranked considerably better, going into the Green Bay game. Flynn doubled what the Lions gave up per game, "after" his 480 passing yds.
The Lions pass defense before being torched for 480 yds by Flynn might have been closer to the 12th ranked pass defense...does that make the Lions a "quality defense"?
Well if I'm allowed to take all of the teams that ranked above the Lions and remove their worst performance then each of them moves up as well...
I can take the 49ers and remove the 427 yard game that Tony Romo hung on them and they move up...
I can take the 403 that Cam Newton hung on Arizona...
The 387 the Pats put on the Bills...
The 383 the Saints put on the Bucs...
The 360 Christian Ponder put on the Broncos...
All well in excess of their season average... and if I start selectively removing each teams worst performance, they all move up, just like you are doing with the Lions..
What if we do this.. let's look at who the Lions built their stat on... the Chiefs.. 116 yards passing... Alex Smith... 111 yards passing... Tim Tebow... 117 yards passing...
yebat' Putin
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Detroit's secondary is terrible. I mean, they're awful. They might have the worst secondary in the league. Brady Quinn torched them several years ago, and while their D-line is much improved since then, their DBs are pretty much the same.
Throwing for big yards against Detroit isn't all that much of an accomplishment.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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Detroit's secondary is terrible. I mean, they're awful. They might have the worst secondary in the league.
well, that is what you get when you stock your secondary with guys the Browns don't want
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Detroit's secondary is terrible. I mean, they're awful. They might have the worst secondary in the league. Brady Quinn torched them several years ago, and while their D-line is much improved since then, their DBs are pretty much the same.
Throwing for big yards against Detroit isn't all that much of an accomplishment.
Any stats to back that up? They were 8th in the league in YPA, and 12th in Passer Rating
Yes, they gave up yards and TDs - but that's almost purely because they had the 5th most passing attempts against them (because their offense and run defense was so good). The large number of attempts also lead them to being 5th in INTs, and 10th in sacks.
Last edited by Lyuokdea; 03/05/12 02:46 PM.
~Lyuokdea
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DC...talk about getting buzzed right over your head...
What I'm pointing out is going into the game against Green Bay, the Lions pass defense likely ranked somewhere around the 12 best pass defense.
Coming out of the game, the Lions defense ranked 22nd in pass defense, largely due to the fact that Flynn and the Packers put up over double the yds the Lions pass defense was giving up before the game.
It's not about randomly removing a game from the Lions schedule...it "is" about showing the Lions pass defense was not all as bad as some are trying to make it out to be.
Flynn put up over twice the yardage the Lions were giving up before his 480 yds performance.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Detroit's secondary is terrible. I mean, they're awful. They might have the worst secondary in the league. Brady Quinn torched them several years ago, and while their D-line is much improved since then, their DBs are pretty much the same.
Throwing for big yards against Detroit isn't all that much of an accomplishment.
Any stats to back that up? They were 8th in the league in YPA, and 12th in Passer Rating
Yes, they gave up yards and TDs - but that's almost purely because they had the 5th most passing attempts against them (because their offense and run defense was so good). The large number of attempts also lead them to being 5th in INTs, and 10th in sacks.
See - that is EXACTLY what bugs me about "stats". Too many want to say "well, team X had a great pass defense".....and ignore that team X had a terrible run defense, or vice versa.
Or, "look at so and so's offense, their pass offense was terrible, the quarter back sucks - look at the stats"....while totally ignoring that team "so and so" had no running game. Yet, that is used as justification (the lack of a great passing game) to justify getting a new qb.
Stats - when ALL stats are considered, are a good thing. When only ONE stat is used as proof of anything - they are worthless.
Perfect example: your scenario with the lions.
Perfect example: someone compared colt's college numbers to Griffins - and then some "geniuses" said "you can't compare Griffins college numbers to colts - that's meaningless because rg hasn't played in the nfl.
What?
Take a receiver. Show me one that knows how to run routes AND catch, but runs a 4.7 40 time - and I'll take that guy any day and every day over the guy that runs a 4.3 40 but has a nasty case of the dropsies.
Etc, etc, etc.
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Yes, they gave up yards and TDs - but that's almost purely because they had the 5th most passing attempts against them (because their offense and run defense was so good).
Giving up 128 rushing ypg (23rd in the NFL) and a 5.0 ypc average (T-29th in the NFL) is good?
So I suppose the argument goes like this.. aside from being 23rd in the NFL in total defense.. and 23rd in first downs allowed... and 23rd in rushing defense.. and 29th in yards per rushing attempt.... and 22nd in passing defense... and 23rd in scoring defense... .. if you are willing to overlook the fact that they were in the bottom third of every reasonable statistical measure of what makes a good defense..... then hell yea, the Lions defense was freakin' AWESOME. 
But hey, in their one playoff game they only gave up 626 yards and 45 points...
yebat' Putin
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DC...talk about getting buzzed right over your head...
Nothing went over my head mac.. Why is it that any time somebody disagrees with you that you automatically assume they don't get the point you were trying to make? Because if they did.. well then surely they would agree with you. 
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What I'm pointing out is going into the game against Green Bay, the Lions pass defense likely ranked somewhere around the 12 best pass defense.
And what I'm pointing out is that one of the ways they did that was by shutting down teams like the Chiefs, Broncos, Bears and other teams with crappy pass offenses... That's why you use season averages because those things even out.. you don't use season averages less 1 crappy game...
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Coming out of the game, the Lions defense ranked 22nd in pass defense, largely due to the fact that Flynn and the Packers put up over double the yds the Lions pass defense was giving up before the game.
The Packers also put up 160 more yards per game than the Packers offense did on average.. so by your logic, what the Packers should do is re-sign Flynn and trade Rodgers right?
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It's not about randomly removing a game from the Lions schedule...it "is" about showing the Lions pass defense was not all as bad as some are trying to make it out to be.
No, you didn't randomly remove a game, you selectively removed the worst game.. at least it was the worst game until the very next game...
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Flynn put up over twice the yardage the Lions were giving up before his 480 yds performance.
And what I'm arguing is that every defense has a bad week once in a while.. for the Lions thier worst happened to be week 17... but every defense or offense would look a lot better statistically if you could remove their worst performance of the year whether its in week 17 or not.
I'm not taking anything away from what Flynn did but don't try to build up the Lions defense to try to prove your point.. they are loaded with big names and a lot of hype but statistically they aren't even in the top half of defenses in any major category.. They gave up 20 or more points in 13 of 17 games.. they gave up 30 or more 5 times.. and over 40 twice.. that is not what good defenses do... by comparison, as bad as everybody says the Pats defense was, they gave up more than 30 once in 19 games.. the Lions did it 5 times in 17 games...
And the following week, on the biggest stage, in the playoffs, they gave up 660 yards and 45 points...
yebat' Putin
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some people think it was easy for Matt Flynn to just step in and walla he was gonna be successful vs the Lions.
Setting a team record in a meaningful game says alot.
He did something that Bart Starr,Lynn Dickey, Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers wasn't asked to.win a shootout vs one of the best passing attacks in the NFL.
he matched Stafford almost yard for yard and out scored him.
Its not like they asked Flynn to just manage a game and keep it close.You know do a Delhomme and hand it off and make a occasional throw.
signing a Matt Flynn accelerates this offense to a new level.
Flynn threw to 8 different targets in that game.
that tells me he wasn't staring down WR's.
He knew exactly where he wanted to put the football. There was trust and faith between QB and target.
Flynn didn't have to worry about drops(Little,Watson) or poor route running(Massaqiou) or guys that couldn't beat press coverage(Robiskie)
Flynn stayed in the pocket,with Lions in his facemask knowing his WR's were gonna be a particular spot to catch it.
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signing a Matt Flynn accelerates this offense to a new level....
He knew exactly where he wanted to put the football. There was trust and faith between QB and target.
Flynn didn't have to worry about drops(Little,Watson) or poor route running(Massaqiou) or guys that couldn't beat press coverage(Robiskie)
Flynn stayed in the pocket,with Lions in his facemask knowing his WR's were gonna be a particular spot to catch it.
I'm sorry but if he comes here and has to deal with drops and poor route running and no separation and there is no established trust between QB and WR and when the defense is in his face and he is NOT sure what spot the WR is going to be at... how does that accelerate us to a new level?
yebat' Putin
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Flynn didn't have to worry about drops(Little,Watson) or poor route running(Massaqiou) or guys that couldn't beat press coverage(Robiskie)
Flynn stayed in the pocket,with Lions in his facemask knowing his WR's were gonna be a particular spot to catch it.
All things that QB's don't have here, yet.... so why would he fare any better here??
No matter what, his performance in that game was a one-hit wonder until he shows otherwise.
Yes, he obviously knew his progressions and was able to go through them and hit the appropriate WR for what he was being shown... that's great. With four years in the offense, that is the least I'd expect of him. Having WR's that got separation, knew their reads and routes, GOT TO THOSE SPOTS and hung onto the ball..... well, he won't necessarily have that here next year, and while the offense won't change, the terminology will, so there will be at least somewhat of a learning curve (as well as learning new WR's... ones that won't be as skilled as what he is leaving behind).
The long and short of it is this: If you look at that one single game and immediately conclude that he would make us worlds better... then I would say that you are grossly deluding yourself.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
signing a Matt Flynn accelerates this offense to a new level....
He knew exactly where he wanted to put the football. There was trust and faith between QB and target.
Flynn didn't have to worry about drops(Little,Watson) or poor route running(Massaqiou) or guys that couldn't beat press coverage(Robiskie)
Flynn stayed in the pocket,with Lions in his facemask knowing his WR's were gonna be a particular spot to catch it.
I'm sorry but if he comes here and has to deal with drops and poor route running and no separation and there is no established trust between QB and WR and when the defense is in his face and he is NOT sure what spot the WR is going to be at... how does that accelerate us to a new level?
Simple. ABC.
It's the mentality of a few outspoken members of this board. My guess is they think the more they espouse it, the truer it should be.
Anybody But Colt.
I feel they are, and have been, ignoring the reality of the situation.......but then they call me a "Colt supporter", when in fact I am intelligent enough to see the big picture. That really riles them up.
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What if I see Colt as the second option, behind the QB left after the Colts pick? But don't think Flynn, Tannehill, or a journeyman QB is a significant upgrade over Colt?
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It's the mentality of a few outspoken members of this board. My guess is they think the more they espouse it, the truer it should be.
P.D. QB Poll
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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What if I see Colt as the second option, behind the QB left after the Colts pick? But don't think Flynn, Tannehill, or a journeyman QB is a significant upgrade over Colt?
Then I say if we get the qb left after the colts pick..........and we get him with our 4th pick and no stupid trades (in fact, at this point in time, I'd say NO trades - but it's way too early.....blah blah blah), then we have a qb competition.
And I have this ........dare I say it...........gut feeling..........that everything will work out for the betterment of the Browns.
Trade away a bunch of picks to get this qb left over after the colt's pick.........we'll probably be in the same situation we are now.
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No matter what, his performance in that game was a one-hit wonder until he shows otherwise.
Which I believe is the point a lot of people are trying to make.. and how much money and how many years are people willing to gamble that he can come close to doing it again?
No matter what we do, it's a gamble.. perhaps people feel like this is less of a gamble because he actually has been in the NFL for a few years and played in some games.. that's a reasonable argument to make.. but it's a gamble none-the-less. History is repleat with backups who showed flashes of brilliance and then went to bad teams and discovered that they were not the savior everybody thought they would be...
The single biggest thing in Flynn's favor, for me, is that it gives us our full compliment of draft picks to select other players to support him...
yebat' Putin
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