DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Mour's Mock v. 5

What do you feel makes Tannehill a better WCO prospect?
Bigger
stronger arm
better pocket presence
better mechanics
better footwork
He is from the WCO
He has actually called a play
He used a playbook and a playbook probably pretty damn close to what we will have here.
He actually took the ball from under center, dropped back and read the defense as he was dropping back
He throws those quick outs and wide receiver screens with incredible speed and accuracy
Short to mid his accuracy and timing is better than RG3

RG3 is so accurate because he holds the ball waiting for the receivers to come free and 99% of the time it is throwing to the spot. QB does that in the NFL he gets killed and the fans blame everyone but the QB lol. He is from a 1 read offense and never had a playbook, never took snaps from under center nor called a play. He has bad footwork and bad mechanincs.

He can overcome these issues but we certainly don't know how long ti will take him to do so. It is why I say he is behind Tannehill as far as being ready to start an NFL game.

we are almost at the bottom in plays run from the gun which says a lot since we were always trailing and were forced to run the gun in the 4th. I really think he is made more for a Bruce Arians offense with a lot of gun buying time and finding the man deep or Shannan's rolling pocket deep crossing offense.

We just run so much quick stuff and this is the area where he is going to struggle.

1. I think they have comparable arms but Tannehill's is better because he utilizes his lower body better in his throws.
2. I think RG3 actually gets the ball out faster than Tannehill on those quick outs and bubble screens.
3. I don't think his accuracy on those are any better or worse than RG3.

I think the thing that people don't realize is that Tannehill is comparable to Aaron Rodgers with his athleticism, mobility and scrambling ability. RG3 is on another level with Vick but Tannehill would be one of the best in the NFL in this respect

What do you feel makes Tannehill a better WCO prospect?

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Bigger

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OK. He measured and inch and a half taller and two pounds lighter than Griffin at the combine.

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stronger arm

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I'd like to say I disagree, but the truth is... you're just wrong here.

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better pocket presence
better mechanics
better footwork

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Can you please post some examples for those of us less experienced than you with this stuff?

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He used a playbook and a playbook probably pretty damn close to what we will have here.

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Really? Because last year we were in the bottom third of the league in shotgun snaps, and the games I posted most of his passing plays were out of shotgun.

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He actually took the ball from under center, dropped back and read the defense as he was dropping back

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Not very often v. NW or v. Arkansas. If you have some other games that are better examples, I'd like to see them, please.

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He throws those quick outs and wide receiver screens with incredible speed and accuracy
Short to mid his accuracy and timing is better than RG3

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I thought his short accuracy was surprisingly bad, especially under center. See all the missed screens in the v. Northwestern video I posted.

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[Griffin] never took snaps from under center

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Mourg, this just is not true. See the videos I posted in the Tannehill thread.

To trade, or not to trade? That's the Cleveland Browns fans' question: Hey, Mary Kay!
Published: Saturday, March 03, 2012, 11:00 PM
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer

Redskins owner Daniel Snyder is dominating the thoughts of several Browns fans, who wonder just how expensive moving two spots up in the NFL draft must be.

Hey, Mary Kay: If the Browns want to trade up to No. 2 in the draft, do they need to give up draft choices equivalent to the values on a chart that someone made up or do they just need to give up more than their competitors are willing to give up? If the latter, what would other teams need to give up just to equal the "chart value" of the Browns' first- and second-round draft choices? -- Paul Thiel, Crescent Springs, Ky.

Hey, Paul: The draft value chart is just a guideline, but it all depends on what the competing teams are offering. Word out of Washington is that the Redskins are willing to part with their No. 6 overall pick, their first-rounder next year, and two other early- to mid-round picks.

Hey, Mary Kay: With all the talk of the Browns drafting RGIII, why is it that I lack confidence in the staff's ability or willingness to sell out to whatever system will totally suit him 100 percent? I believe this is the only way it could ever work and that we can't afford another 15 years of rebuilding. -- Brian Damon, McCook Lake S.D.

Hey, Brian: Pat Shurmur has already said he'd tailor an offense to suit the strengths of a quarterback such as Robert Griffin III. His West Coast mentor, Eagles coach Andy Reid, set the precedence with Mike Vick.

Hey, Mary Kay: Does RG3 not throwing at the combine raise any questions about how he will perform with different receivers other than the ones he is comfortable with at Baylor? -- Carley Weber, Cleveland

Hey, Carley: Not an issue at all. RG3 is a tremendous passer, and he'll only get better when throwing to NFL receivers.

Hey, Mary Kay: With all this QB talk, would it be safe to say that Senaca Wallace is history and that we would have an additional $3 million in cap space for free agency? -- Satch Wilson, Mansfield

Hey, Satch: Not necessarily. Even if the Browns draft RG3, they can keep Colt McCoy and Wallace as backups, with reasonable 2012 base salaries of $540,000 and $2.4 million respectively.

Hey, Mary Kay: If Matt Kalil slips to us at number 4, do you take him? -- Casey Phelps, Lakewood

Hey, Casey: I know the Browns are taking a good, hard look at Kalil, but I see them taking a playmaker if they stay in that spot. If Kalil happened to fall, he'd probably bring trade opportunities.

Hey, Mary Kay: A lot of fan and media focus has been on the Browns' first-round choice or choices. What are your thoughts on the possible selections for rounds two through four? -- Mark Stanley, Lancaster, Pa.

Hey, Mark: If the Browns don't get a receiver with either of their two first-round picks, they'll look hard at one with their No. 37 and later picks. Some to keep an eye on are Notre Dame's Michael Floyd, Georgia Tech's burner Stephen Hill and Baylor's Kendall Wright. The Browns also spent time at the combine with Illinois defensive end Whitney Mercilus, the Akron native who led the nation with 16 sacks. They also visited with Georgia CB Brandon Boykin and will have a workout March 12 with Cinci RB Isaiah Pead.

Hey, Mary Kay: I'm a huge Peyton Hillis fan and was wondering if you had any inside information. Anybody who can put up 100 yards on the Steelers is worth bringing back! -- Brian Ayers, New London

Hey, Brian: Hillis would love to stay in Cleveland, and the Browns might try to re-sign him. But he'll most likely test the free agent market first. Hillis told the Plain Dealer Friday that a report that he contemplated retiring and joining the CIA was false and made him look insane.

Hey, Mary Kay: It's assumed we can get RG3 because we have the highest first-round picks to trade. But what if Washington offers their whole draft, or a first rounder next year in addition to this year's first rounders? How much should/would the Browns give up if it becomes a bidding war? -- Bill DeShurko, Centerville

Hey, Bill: I'd go about as far as the Giants did to get Eli Manning: the No. 4, the No. 22, a third and a fifth, especially if they can add some starters in free agency and through trades.

Hey, Mary Kay: I was actually happy to hear that Mike Adams had a difficult combine. I certainly wish him the best, but I would love for him to fall to the Browns in the early second round. Is this possible? I don't care how much he can bench. Hopefully, he will never be called to lift someone off of himself while lying on his back! -- Nancy H., Baltimore, Md.

Hey, Nancy: I do think it's possible for Adams to slip to No. 37 and I think the Browns would take a good look. They're impressed with his massive size (6-7, 323) but need answers about his strength after the measly 19 bench press reps at the combine.

Hey, Mary Kay: The only team St. Louis would trade with is the Browns. They don't want to trade down any further and risk losing Justin Blackmon. It would be a big mistake for the Browns to trade up for RG3! If the Browns don't trade up and Washington does, St. Louis will not get Blackmon, or Kalil. Am I looking at this the wrong way? It just seems like we would be throwing away our 22nd pick! -- Todd

Hey, Todd: It's a virtual lock that RG3 will be drafted No. 2. The Rams would be willing to trade down to No. 6 with the Redskins and have already had preliminary talks about doing so. Ideally, they'd like the No. 4, but the Browns would also most likely have to surrender No. 22.

Hey, Mary Kay: The cost for the No. 2 pick seems to be going higher by the day. Would the Browns be able to recoup a draft pick by trading Colt McCoy? Maybe to a team in the Lone Star State? -- Richard Foderaro, Parma

Hey, Richard: The trade value for a former third-round pick with a 6-15 record wouldn't be that great -- perhaps a mid-rounder. But if the Browns throw an extra pick into the RG3 sweepstakes, it could help make up for that.

Hey, Mary Kay: I would like to see the QB position settled, like everyone else. But I just don't think the trade will be worth it with all the holes we have. How exciting is it to have three picks in the top 36! Everyone is talking Flynn as a FA option. What do you think about Jason Campbell? He could run this offense really well and would be cheap compared to others while allowing us to build the team. -- Art Vandelay, Bowling Green

Hey, Art: I don't see the Browns signing Campbell despite his 4-2 record last season before the broken collarbone. If the Browns decided to move on from Colt McCoy, I think they'll draft either RG3 or Ryan Tannehill.

Hey, Mary Kay: If the Browns trade up for RG3 this will set us back a bit because of the learning curve for QBs to learn the West Coast offense. What are the odds Peyton Manning goes to Arizona because of the dome and we can work a deal with them for Kevin Kolb? -- Charles Smitz, Reno, Nev.

Hey, Charles: The Arizona situation is an interesting one to watch. But the Browns weren't as interested in Kolb last year as everyone thought. He's due a $7 million bonus this month, and could be released if the Cards go in another direction. The Browns would at least have to give it some thought, considering Tom Heckert drafted him in Philly and he's a West Coast QB.

Hey, Mary Kay: Let's suppose, as reported, that during free agency the Dolphins sign Flynn and the Redskins sign Manning. Would the Browns still need to pay a king's ransom to move up or could they stay with their fourth pick and get a QB? Would they take someone else? -- Bob Niemchak, Canton

Hey, Bob: Even if Washington and Miami drop out of the sweepstakes, other teams will come forward with a boatload of picks. Kansas City at No. 11 and Seattle at No. 12 are two possibilities, but there are other unnamed teams that have already expressed interest.
-- Mary Kay

btw...not even a real Seinfeld super fan but even I caught the Art Vandelay reference.

Nice work Bowling Green guy! Pretty easy to slip one by the Plain Dealer these days. What's next? Amanda Hugankiss? Hey guys I'm looking for Amanda Hugankiss!

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Washington isn't offering their entire draft,even now they don't want to yield their second rd pick..the lonegr things play out the Rams will lower that asking pice.

I have a feeling that teams might actually start low-ballin the #2 price.. Rams might be disappointed.

You're a bit more in line to my thinking. I'm horrified at what I see from some posters what they are willing to give up to move up in this draft. I think we can move up and I don't think its gonna take nearly as much as some people are saying.

This is looking like a Tannehill versus Griffin post.

If so, then I will add my 2 cents. Tannehill looks the part but at this point he comes with more risk because everything is based upon potential. 19 college starts is not alot to go on.

Hard to evaluate when the sample size is so small. Projecting what he can do in the pros is really guess work. He looks like a second rounder who will be drafted early because of his position.

To me you forget about the draft picks (2, 4th, 22, etc.) .

Just look at the players apple to apple Tannehill versus RG3.

Who is the better prospect? Who projects better into what you are looking for?

Tannehill may become a great player. But when you look at the two guys today it is my belief that Griffin is the better player.

If Holmgren/Heckert view it that way then go get him.

Pick 22 is the trump card. Get it done.

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Projecting what he can do in the pros is really guess work.

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Umm, that is the case for EVERY player... yes, even RG3.

Round 1.

1. Colts - Andrew Luck QB Stanford
2. Redkins- Robert Griffin III QB Baylor
3. Vikings - Matt Kalil OT USC
4. Jags- Justin Blackmon WR OKST (Browns receive pick 7, 38 and 101, Jags receive pick #4)

5. Bucs- Trent Richardson RB Alabama
6. Rams - Maurice Claiborne CB LSU
7. BRowns- Ryan Tannehill QB Texas A&M
8. Miami - Michael Floyd WR Notre Dame

9. Carolina - Fletcher Cox DT Miss. St.
10. Bills- Riley Reiff OT Iowa
11. Chiefs- Donatari Poe DT Memphis
12. Seattle - Quinton Coples DE UNC

13. Arizona - Cordy Glenn OT Georgia
14. Cowboys- Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina
15. Eagles - Michael Brockers DT LSU
16. Jets - Melvin Ingram DE South Carolina

17. Bengals - Mark Barron SS Alabama
18. Chargers- Jonathon Martin OT Stanford
19. Bears - Whitney Mercilus DE Illinois
20. Titans - Kenny Wright WR Baylor

21. Bengals - David Decastro OG Stanford
22. Pats from Browns- Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama (Browns trade 22 and 37 for picks 27 and 31)
23. Lions - Mike Adams OT Ohio St.
24. Steelers - Courtney Upshaw OLB Alabama

25. Broncos - Jerel Worthy DT Michigan State
26. Texans - Nick Perry DE USC
27. Browns from Patriots - Stephen Hill WR Georgia Tech
28. Packers - Dont'a Hightower ILB Alabama

29. Ravens - Peter Konz C Wisconsin
30. 49ers- Alshon Jeffrey WR South Carolina
31. Browns Patriots - Doug Martin RB Boise St.
32. Giants - Luke Kuechly ILB BC

Round 2.
33. Rams - Reuben Randle WR LSU
34. Colts - Coby Fleener TE Stanford
35. Vikings - Brandon Boykin, CB, Georgia
36. Bucs - Harrison Smith SS Notre Dame

37. Pats from Browns - Shea McClellin OLB Boise State
38. Browns -LB Lavonte David Nebraska
39. Rams - Zebrie Sanders OT Florida State
40. Panthers - Mohamad Sanu WR Rutgers

41. Buffalo - Janoris Jenkins CB North Alabama
42. Dolphins- Vinny Curry DE Marshall
43. Seahawks - Zach Brown OLB UNC
44. Chiefs- Amini Silatou OG Midwestern State

45. Cowboys - Andre Branch DE Clemson
46. Phily- Leonard Johnson CB Iowa State
47. Jets - Kevin Zeiter OG Wisconsin
48. Patriots - Lamar Miller RB Miami

49. Chargers - Bruce Irvin LB West Virginia
50. Bears - Joe Adams WR Arkansas
51. Browns from Phily - Mitchell Schwartz OT Cal
52. Titans - Chandler Jones DE Syracuse

53. Bengals- David Wilson RB Virginia Tech
54. Lions - Jayron Hosely CB VT
55. Falcons Jared Crick DE Nebraska
56. Steelers - Kelechi Osemele OG Iowa State

57. Broncos - Dwayne Allen TE Clemson
58. Texans - Marvin Jones WR Cal.
59. Saints - Devon Still DT Penn St.
60. Packers - Brandon Washington OG Miami

61. Ravens- Brandon Brooks OG Miami (Ohio)
62. 49ers - Kirk Cousins QB Michigan St.
63. Giants - Ladarius Green TE La.-Lafayette
64. Patriots - Chris Givens WR Wake Forest

I don't mind the deal to move down from 4 to 7. But I can't say I like what happens after with those picks. Doug Martin at 31? If we want a running back, let's get the best one in the draft and take Richardson,

As we inch closer and closer to the draft, I'm more convinced we either take Richardson or take a trade to move down and make out like bandits.

Richardson at 4
Best available WR at 22

This gives Colt the weapons and officially puts him on his last chance. If he doesn't show improvement, its Barkley or Landry Jones in 2013.

Sorry if this has been covered or if I'm missing something, but how did we get #51 from Philly?

I had us trading up from 68 with a 4th and 5th. my bad

I love all of the extra picks from the trades ..... but again, what are we going to do with that many drafted players?

Anything over 10 is kind of a waste, because rarely will you add that many rookies to any team, no matter how bad.

You are bound and determined to draft Tannehill somewhere, aren't you? I want no part of an inexperienced 2nd round talent anywhere in the 1st round ........ but at least not before 27/31 in your scenario.

Your draft gives us massively inexperienced players on offense early. (Tannehill, Hill) Can't see us doing so on the unit that needs serious help the most, in a year where Holmgren has called everyone out on the need to get to 8 wins minimum. I like the Martin pick, and he could well be a guy we take if we pass on Richardson.

I kinda like the Lavonte pick, but I don't know if Heckert will. I don;t think that Heckert places 1st-2nd round value on the OLB position. In the drafts he ran in Philly, he drafted 5 LB ..... 2 in the 3rd, and 3 in the 7th. He took, in rounds 1-2, DT, T, QB, DE, DT, WR, WR, RB. (2006 to 2009, which IIRC, were "his" drafts)

I think, based on what I have heard him say and read, that he looks at the draft the following way:

1st round:
QB, DT, LT, CB, WR
2nd round:
DE, MLB, S, RB, RT

3rd round:
OLB, TE, and G and C, although his history seem to be that he takes these even lower

4th round:
FB

UDFA/FA:
P, K, LS

Obviously, a truly special talent may make him take a player higher than his preferred slotting, but I do think that this is his general rule of thumb.

I don't know that Lavonte would be a player to break the mold on. He's a good OLB, but he's not a pass rush threat from everything I have see and read about him. I think a guy like Clay Matthews would have been a guy who would convince him to adjust his slotting ....... but I don't know if Lavonte is.

I don't like the Pats trade. We let them move up 5 spots and we move from 37 to 31 as our only compensation? (moving down 5 to move up 6 later in the draft) I want a future pick (at least a 3rd) included to make this move.

Anyway, I respect the work you put into this mock. Any mock is a lot of work. I do disagree with the general direction this draft will take though. If we don't wind up with at least 2 day 1 starters on offense, and preferably 3, (RT, RB, WR) this front office/staff may not survive.

Few questions...

Reason for cowboys taking a CB after paying Chris Carr?

Why do Bengals pass on WR and CB for a safety?

Why do the browns accept that trade with pats if hill is their target and Denver, Pit, and Houston all probably have strong interest in him?

What do browns do to get philly's second 2nd? What does Andy Reid do about safety and LB?

Also, saints lost their second thanks to Gregg Williams.

Carr only fills one spot and Rob Ryan plays more nickel and dime than anyone in the league. They could go safety but Gilmore is a really good fit in that scheme.

Kirkpatrick is a more of a zone/ off coverage type and doesn't fit the Bengals need. They could go Jenkins here but I believe with Gilmore gone they may look to the kid from Texas A&M or Bennet from Louisianna Tech.

Denver needs DL in the worst way, Pitt needs everything but receiver and Houston needs a #2 receiver. I don't believe in taking #2 receivers in the first round. Pass rushing DE/OLB has more value at that spot. Trading down there is of little risk for us and we walk out with 3 guys wrapped up for 5 years.

The safeties/ intriguing corners should come off the board in the 3rd as will a lot of the linebackers.

I was torn on the Saints due to appeal but left them in for now.

When are you targeting a RT to be ahead of Oniel Cousins on the depth chart?

Thanks

I believe Tannehill is our target and we can trade down with the Jags and get Richardson, Tannehill, Blackmon or Claiborne. At 8, you don't get the same level of skill.

I dont believe Miami will trade up. They would take Tannehil if he falls into their lap but Moore seems like a really good fit for that system. I really think they like Michaelf Floyd and will give Moore a chance.

The pats trade was to get in front of the Giants to land Martin. I feel the Giants would take him if available at 32. Value wise they would come out ahead but player wise, I really like that move up. Getting 3 starters wrapped up for 5 years has its own reward.

David was more of BPA from the list of guys we had brought in and it filled a need.

would be nice to have those xtra picks in the 4th. Love the 4th round fallers, no risk and tons of reward. Broyles, Minnifield at no risk.

I took swartz to fill the RT void.

This would be the ideal draft. Hill is a gamble but they don't make WRs like him too often. Martin is one heck of a back but...

I have been a big fan of watching Chris Johnson play. Seeing a hole when he sees it and knowing he's about to take it the distance. Super cool feeling. One that I haven't had since Eric Metcalf.

Part of me wants Miller or Wilson simply because of their speed. But I do see Martin as the superior player. Nice work!!!

We can argue about picks we like/dislike later -- but I don't understand the second trade whatesoever (with NE) -- we trade down 5 spots, to trade up 6 later.

I've never seen a trade like that where the team trading down gets obviously less value via the chart. Add in the fact that we are apparently targeting Hill with that pick (who is a wild card who could potentially go anywhere - especially to a team like the Broncos (to help manning) or the Texans (as a deep threat opposite Johnson) - and I really don't get it.

Drafting Ryan Tannehill in the Top 15 will make me sick. I will lose all hope for this organization.

You just havent seen a good qb in so long you have forgotten what one looks like :P lol

No, but I sure as hell know how to spot a below average one, which is why I don't want Tannehill

In all seriousness, I worry about taking a QB at 4 overall who has no true elite abilities.

1 - IND: Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
2 - WAS: Robert Griffin, QB, Baylor
3 - MIN: Matt Kalil, OT, USC
4 - CLE: Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama
5 - MIA: Justin Blackmon, WR, Oklahoma State
6 - STL: Michael Floyd, WR, Notre Dame
7 - JAX: Melvin Ingram, DE, South Carolina
8 - TB: Morris Claiborne, CB, LSU
9 - CAR: Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State
10 - BUF: Riley Reiff, OT, Iowa
11 - KC: Ryan Tannehill, QB, Texas A&M
12 - SEA: Quinton Coples, DE, North Carolina
13 - ARI: David DeCastro, OG, Stanford
14 - DAL: Michael Brockers, DT, LSU
15 - PHI: Luke Kuechly, LB, Boston College
16 - NYJ: Courtney Upshaw, ILB, Alabama
17 - CIN: Cordy Glenn, OG, Georgia
18 - SD: Nick Perry, DE, USC
19 - CHI: Jonathan Martin, OT, Stanford
20 - TEN: Dre Kirkpatrick, CB, Alabama
21 - CIN: Stephon Gilmore, CB, South Carolina
22 - CLE: Kendall Wright, WR, Baylor
23 - DET: Janoris Jenkins, CB, North Alabama
24 - PIT: Dontari Poe, DT, Memphis
25 - DEN: Mike Adams, OT, Ohio State
26 - HOU: Stephen Hill, WR, Georgia Tech
27 - NE: Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois
28 - GB: Mark Barron, SS, Alabama
29 - BAL: Dont'a Hightower, LB, Alabama
30 - SF: Kevin Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin
31 - NE: Jerel Worthy, DT, Michigan State
32 - NYG: Coby Fleener, TE, Stanford