Rams will stay with Bradford, no question about it. (Duh)
Seems to think that it's a 2 team race between Washington and Cleveland.
"Do you see RG3 playing under Mike Holmgren in Cleveland?"
"I can see it, yeah. In fact if Mike Holmgren doesn't do it he's crazy."
"If you are going to have Colt McCoy as your QB, what QB are you going to find in the next couple of years that can, at least, have you compete on a level playing field with Ben Roethlisberger, with uh, Joe Flacco, and also, now, a developing Andy Dalton. You've got to find someone. Colt McCoy can't do it. They're gonna finish 4th. At least with Robert Griffin III, maybe it'll take a year for him to at least get in there, but now you have the kind of talent, a Steve Young kind of talent, that you can compete against those teams who right now are better at QB than the Cleveland Browns."
Anyway ..... those are the Browns highlights. There's some free agency stuff in there, and he seems to think that the Saints could have to dismantle a large section of their team to keep Brees.
Thanks for joining the conversation Ytown. I probably didn't give this thread an appropriate title. I basically prefer drafting a volume of promising prospects falling on our doorstep rather than throwing all our marbles into 1 guy at the exchange value of anywhere from 4-6 players due to Daniel "Cookoo's Nest" Snyder driving up the auction. I don't think you've done a bad job of articulating your stance or concerns. Having said that, only a higher power can change the current supply and demand to meet our need of this elusive elite QB concept. We need Houdini or David Copperfield if we're going to count on MoMass and Little running themselves into traffic and dropping passes all over again. They don't give our passer YAC - they give him YUCK.
Cleveland didn't offer McCoy the same setup Roethlisberger walked into at Pittsburgh unless you can point out Plex Burress, Hines Ward, Jerome Bettis, Willie Parker, and a defense that limits scores to about 10-14 points weekly while often scoring or giving the offense the ball on the opponent's side of the 50 yard line. Tommy Maddox, and Kordell Stewart were taking that same team to the playoffs. If we swapped McCoy for Dalton in 2011, I think things turn out exactly the same. AJ Green catches alley ooops and rainbows in traffic while MoMass and Greg Little will never confuse any of us for AJ Green. They actually showed a video collage of rookie circus catches by Green on the NFL channel recently. Meanwhile, I'm sad to report Cleveland led the NFL in dropped passes.
Getting this more recent to 2012, I've heard outsiders and wishful thinkers saying we need to go Mike Ditka and make it happen with RGIII. I'm not the risk taker type that says "okay, run it man." I'm the whimpy type that reminds everyone Tim Couch landed on more than 1 injured reserve list exactly like Courtney Brown did. If we do our homework, RGIII needed a medical redshirt in 2009 because he blew out an ACL; and he left a November game with the same head trauma Colt McCoy had in December. I also remember Butch planning our 2002 defense around Jamir Miller because Courtney Brown already had 2 injured reserve visits on his resume. Then Jamir Miller blew out an achilles tendon in the first preseason game. Didn't we also offer up the highest free agent contract ever to a Center to a guy named LeCharles Bentley? He never survived the very first non-contact practice in shorts. And 1st round draft picks like Braylon Edwards, Kellen Winslow, William Green and even Brady Quinn landed on injured reserve. Where am I going with this? In Cleveland, 1 very important free agent or first round draft pick has always gotten injured. This has been the rule instead of the exception to it unfortunately. In order to know where we are going - it's critically important to understand where we have been.
Personally, I'd like to shore up holes all over our roster that would enable us to compete better on Sunday than changing the name of the QB for 100th time (the problem is the help so don't chase it way). We currently need a miracle worker not a QB so I'd like us to change those dynamics with the draft picks on hand to do so. In the process, nobody says we have to hand tenure to Colt McCoy or refrain from drafting other promising QBs that may fall to our doorstep. In 2010 when we spent the first part of our year looking at 18 million $ worth of combined QB alternatives to McCoy who honestly was not excited about seeing McCoy take the field? In the process, we beat NE, beat New Orleans and took the AFC Championship bound Jets into OT when McCoy had to lead us to a TD in order to get us into OT. In overtime McCoy was leading us toward NY's red zone when Stuckey fumbled away the ball at their 30 yard line. The team actually rallied around this kid vrs our best competition before he became our 3rd QB in a walking boot 1 week later. It showed me enough to say Jimmy Clausen and Sam Bradford were not better bangs for the buck in the same draft class.
If you're one of those fans that believes the 4th slot overall is as close as we'll ever get to this elusive elite QB prospect - divine intervention has thrown us a curve ball named Daniel Snyder. He only has 2 brain cells and they're not on speaking terms. If he wants to become St Louis' biggest hero, Jeff Fisher is ecstatic to be the beneficiary.
Last edited by Ottomatic Flugel; 03/04/1205:39 PM.
Quote: By saying they are unwilling to trade the 4 AND the 22 are the Browns saying they don't think RG3 is worth two 1sts?
Of course that went right over my head. I read it 3 times before understanding it a 1st time. And I'm talking about Daniel Snyder's divorced braincells?
Btw, that signature is hilarious.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
I'm the kind of person who believes that a great QB makes his team better. You don't believe that, or at least not tot he same extent I do. That's fine.
I would love to have great players at every position, but that's not how NFL teams are built anymore. The successful teams, the ones that make the playoffs year in and year out ... the ones who win Super Bowls, are built around a great QB. Rodgers, Manning, Manning, Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger ..... these are the QBs who take their teams to Super Bowls, and who win them. Other guys like Newton and Stafford are on their way to that type of status. Who do we have that compares?
IMHO, we don't have anyone.
Now I don't mean that once you have a great QB in place that you can then stop "and let the winning begin!". Obviously, no one player does it all by himself. Newton was an example of a guy who did about all he could to do that (21 pass TDs and 14 rushing TDs) ... and the Panthers still only won 6 games. You must have at least an average defense, especially early in a young QB's career. On our team I think that we need a RT, WR, and probably a RB. However, the biggest piece we are missing, and the one that will have the biggest impact on turning this franchise around, is the QB. If we can get the QB right, then other pieces will start falling into place. If we continue to ignore it, then we never really know what we have at WR. We might not even know what we have on the OL. The QB impacts every pieces of the offensive puzzle. Without a great QB you're trying to put together a jigsaw puzzle, with half the pieces missing, after the rest have been run through a shredder.
We have the rare opportunity to go get a franchise quality guy in this draft, and I hope that we take advantage of that opportunity.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Oh boy...I don't even know where to start pointing out the inconsistencies of your post
- people "forget" that McCoy was a 3rd rounder when they bash him but Cameron was a wasted 4th rounder? You want more McCoy despite bottom 3rd QB play after 21 starts but Cameron is a bust after 21 snaps?
- McCoy should get more time because he only has "3rd and 4th tier options at WR/TE or RB" but those same 3rd/4th tier guys should not get more time because they have a 3rd tier option QB throwing to them?
- you want more time for (despite bad play from) McCoy, thus don't want him to be replaced AFTER 2011 but H&H "did nothing to improve the Offense" after 2010? So you basically argue for a 3rd chance for Colt but criticze H&H for giving HIGHER DRAFTED players (Massa and Robo) that same 3rd season? Was life fair to them that they had those final chances with a rookie and 2nd year 3rd round QB?
Double standard anyone? Excuses and more excuses...and of all posters who want McCoy replaced nobody is excusing the bad WR, RT, RB play like you excuse Colt's...both sides are criticized and when you have sub par play at those positions you better start looking for better QB play because QBs make WRs and not the othe way around....I dont' want to ONLY upgrade on Colt...I also want a better WR, RT and more durable RB etc...strange enough, the Colt-apologists want everything around him get upgraded and keep Colt...that's either inconsistent reasoning (blaming 1 side and not the other) or delusional player evaluation (thinking that Colt is a better QB than the other players at their position in relation to the league)
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Cameron was a wasted pick cause he's a "project" and also the Browns already had depth at TE. Cameron showed me nothing last year that warranted a 4th RD pick. I didn't know a struggling franchise like the Browns had a luxury of drafting a "project" in RD 4. the Browns had more issues to address than TE last year Brian Robiskie has done nothing in the NFL. Massaqiou has been marginally better. both guys didn't help McCoy with their inability to beat CB's off the LOS or their inability to seperate downfield. tell me about that imaginative offense Shurmur instilled last year?
and Colt looks the part as QB project who still is unable to go through progressions and still is in his Texas habit of 1read and then dump off or go..he's just a project that got way too much playing time
If you think McCoy is a better starting QB than Massa is a starting WR or Pashos is at RT then you're simply delusional...that was the point of my last post....he's bottom 3rd, even worst 5 compared to other starters at his position...just like Pashos, Lauvao, Massa at their position etc
Just because those guys suck doesn't make him better...and the blame game goes either way as I said..bottom line is they all suck and need replaced
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Quote: By saying they are unwilling to trade the 4 AND the 22 are the Browns saying they don't think RG3 is worth two 1sts?
Of course that went right over my head. I read it 3 times before understanding it a 1st time. And I'm talking about Daniel Snyder's divorced braincells?
Btw, that signature is hilarious.
LOL.. I get a kinda kick out of things we've read today and yesterday about the cost of moving up., First it was gonna cost a kings ransom, now it's reported that the Browns won't give up two 1st round picks...
The truth is,, we don't know anything.
It's the silly season and for sure, nobody is talking out loud about anything they REALLY think or will REALLY do. and even if they are, how can you believe them...
As for the sig,,, I kinda like it and feel it's timely.. funny thing is, you and one other are the only guys that have commented on it....LOL
:
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Cameron was a wasted pick cause he's a "project" and also the Browns already had depth at TE.
If you think that a 4th round pick is a waste because they didn't show you anything they're rookie ear, then I don't know what you expect out of rookies...
Hindsight is wonderful. Isn't it?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Quote: By saying they are unwilling to trade the 4 AND the 22 are the Browns saying they don't think RG3 is worth two 1sts?
i guess its all in the way you look at it: If you trade two first round picks, and draft one player- isn't this really just giving up only a first. I mean, you still got your player. It is not like you lost two picks and have nothing to show for it....
So maybe the browns are saying he's not worth even the #4.
I don't know, it's the silly season. At least it gives us something to pass the time.
Quote: By saying they are unwilling to trade the 4 AND the 22 are the Browns saying they don't think RG3 is worth two 1sts?
i guess its all in the way you look at it: If you trade two first round picks, and draft one player- isn't this really just giving up only a first. I mean, you still got your player. It is not like you lost two picks and have nothing to show for it....
So maybe the browns are saying he's not worth even the #4.
I don't know, it's the silly season. At least it gives us something to pass the time.
Pass the time? All this crap does it make time take longer!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
I think the Browns will give up their first two picks. They are smart, however, saying that they won't. Talk had turned into 3 first round picks This will hopefully keep Washington from making an offer that can't be refused. The Rams still want to trade with the Browns because the 4th pick is far more valuable than the 6th. Drive the price down and then give up 2 picks.
I think it depends on how much Heckert and Co. love RG3...
What if they DON'T? What if all this is smokescreen?
What if we want a choice between Claiborne/Blackmon?
We WANT Stl to trade out, Minny takes Kalil, giving us a choice between the two guys we want?
Maybe we give a call to Dan Snyder and tell him he doesn't have to deal with Stl anymore? For a fraction of the price they can move up to #4 and get their guy...
ALL THIS CRAP NEEDS TO END SOON... MY BRAIN CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
Methinks the Peenster over-thinks things a bit here.. he's always welcome at our tailgates. I'm actually thinking about a road trip to Chattanooga this summer during pre-season to one of my favorite camp sites.. catch a game on TV and have Peen visit.. maybe even the River fest they have down there.
Be sure and upload the vid of you and peen river dancing.
River dancing might be what it is called in Ireland. Here in the South, it's clogging or Buck Dancing..
The Over Mountain Men were mostly Scotch/Irish, thus the Riverdance style.
It took Over Mountain Men to turn the tide against the Brits during the Revolution....Tennessee saved the day at Kings Mountain
D.Ray White was a legend....here is some Buck Dancing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
like I said I didn't know the Browns had a luxury of taking projects. I look around the NFL and see a couple guys the Browns could have drafted in the 4th RD that would have would gave immediate help... OLB Sam Acho and WR Danarius Moore. Heck Pernell McGhee of Mississippi State would have been a upgrade over Jayme Mitchell. Other Jason Pinkston the Browns really reached for guys like Marecic and Cameron. and you guys wonder why the Browns are 5-11 and 4-12 every year. they simply don't draft well
Theres a reason people fall the the 4th round rounds and later... Because they are projects...
Like I said, It's wonderful that after the draft, and after their rookie year, you can find other players that maybe could of helped better, I'm sure that's wonderful, but you can't really use that WHILE YOU'RE DRAFTING...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
But it doesn't take a GM to figure out that a player like Jordan Cameron isn't ready to contribute right away....why cause he's a power foward trying to be a NFL TE. For every Jimmy Graham you have a Jordan Cameron. and players drop in the draft not because their projects all the time. sometimes one position is deeper than others in the draft. you got risers and fallers in the draft. its the smart front offices that don't draft projects and risks like Cameron and Montario Hardesty and select guys like Carl Nicks,Antonio Brown and Geno Atkins.
You threw a guy like Danarius Moore in there ....... but he had established and talented QBs throwing to him. After the Raiders lost Campbell they traded for Palmer, and the position really only missed a beat for a couple of weeks while Palmer learned the offense. Moore would never have popped like that here, because we don't have a QB of that caliber either in terms of talent and/or experience.
Almost every draft expert loved the pick of Marecic. I didn't ...... but I can see why they did it. He showed ability in all aspects of playing FB in college, and at a high powered school like Stanford as well. I suspect that he'll help the team more this coming year.
I look at Heckert's first 2 drafts, and I have a hard time saying that he didn't draft well.
Last year we gained starters in Taylor, Sheard, Little, and Pinkston. Each of these guys showed quite a bit as rookies, and each showed that he can play in the NFL at a high level. Skrine looks like a future nickel, at worst. Marecic looks like he can be a contributor on a winning team. That leaves Cameron and Hagg as the 2 big question marks. Hagg did play some defense last year, and also contributed on special teams. That's solid for a 7th round pick. Now we're down to Cameraon as the lone remaining major question mark. That's not too bad for year one.
From 2010 we have Haden established as a plus level CB, and Ward was having one heck of a year until he got hurt. Hardesty, obviously, had injury issues, and is a major question mark at this point. Colt McCoy is what he is ....... a question mark at this point in his career. I don't think that anyone is sure what his final destiny is. I suspect he'll be a long term backup. Lauvoa started all 16 games at Guard, and got better as the year progressed. Asante was lost because of an injury, and Geathers never made it out of camp.
So, from this draft we gained a starting CB, S, and RG. We have a guy who got a short at starting QB, but who will probably be a backup in the NFL. We also got a major question mark in Hardesty.
If Hardesty is able to come back and be what Heckert thought he would be, than this would have to be considered a plus draft as well. If he doesn't, then it drops to average level.
I don't see drafting as a huge problem. Anyone can look back with perfect hindsight at what could have been. I think that the Browns drafted well ....... they just didn't draft perfectly.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Cameron was a wasted pick cause he's a "project" and also the Browns already had depth at TE.
If you think that a 4th round pick is a waste because they didn't show you anything they're rookie ear, then I don't know what you expect out of rookies...
Hindsight is wonderful. Isn't it?
Good point about hindsight 20/20. How would you like to be that Chargers' fan that once said "we need a real QB with our first overall pick" back when Drew Brees wasn't polished enough to make everyone around him better. Today, he's 33 and sported one of the best statistical years ever. A place like New Orleans suddenly has a Superbowl Trophy and frequents post seasons. Meanwhile, San Diego allowed Denver to take their playoff spot.
In Brees' 3rd season he had a 67 passer rating with 15 INTs to 11 TDs; and was the QB of a team that earned the right to draft 1st overall the hard way. Again, you'll hear "good QBs make all those around them better." I think reasonable experience is a prerequisite to making that statement float in spite of the occasional exception to the rule on bad teams. Promising QBs going to bad teams usually involve growing pains or bad records. In saying that I need to provide some examples like Steve Young, Drew Brees, John Elway, Troy Aikman and countless others starting off in horrific settings early on with learning the NFL while getting zero help. Remember how many Dallas fans wanted Steve Walsh to be their QB back when Aikman wasn't making everyone around him better? How many own that in hindsight 20/20? Many other young QBs couldn't make their versions of MoMass look like Jerry Rice. Steve Young didn't make anyone look like Jerry Rice until he moved from Tampa to SF. When he was 29 and 30, he could make everyone better. We need to remember this when we look at a QB 21 starts old inclusive of deprogramming playbook #1 for playbook #2 in a year with no ota's. The worst thing you can do is give up a considerable volume of important draft picks only to put 1 more inexperienced QB in the same exact situation.
Not saying McCoy is Drew Brees Jr - I'm just addressing this notion that he's not making everyone around him better yet. Having said that, in 2010 when McCoy got treated the way Roethlisberger always got treated as a rookie - he had a 3 game stretch vrs 3 playoff teams where we went 2-1 with 1 OT loss to the Jets. Our defense scored twice vrs New Orleans, Hillis ran through NE like a John Deere Tractor and we pressed the AFC Championship Game bound Jets to them needing a Stuckey fumble at their 30 yard line. It seemed weird the only time the entire team rallied was when they didn't have Delhomme or Wallace letting the air out of their sails. Roethlisberger even had Ward and Bettis throwing TD passes for him while Alan Faneca was threatening his rookie QB with "don't lose it for us rookie!" I saw one 3 week stint of the Cleveland Browns giving their young QB such a margin of error in 2010 before McCoy became our 3rd QB to wear a walking boot. I'm hoping it's a foreshadow of what can be once we conquer depth and talent deprivation.
Let's get a team here by addressing RDE, RT, WR, RB (man does it suck to type that), Secondary, and LBer. Believe it or not, there's more than 2 QBs with promising upside in this draft. The good news is we shouldn't have to trade a thing to land one to come in and compete with McCoy.
Last edited by Ottomatic Flugel; 03/05/1208:57 AM.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
Quality starters in Haden, Ward, Lavauo, Pinkston, Taylor & Sheard combined with FA's and players from existing regimes, Watson, Gocong, Fujita, Jackson, Thomas, Mack, & Ruben and there's half a team. Thirteen actually. There's also Hardesty whom we can hope against hope that he returns to the guy they thought they drafted in his second year after surgery and it's not a bad start at all. Plus, we can count Hillis, or another equal back we're likely to pick up if the Hillis thing fails and it's actually a very good start with fewer holes than imagined.
Add to them FA's S. Brown and Patterson along with some promising later round picks like Moore (who's locked up), Skrine, Marecic and a few others who are promising and the team is not so far away as feared.
Of course it's optomistic but what the hell.
Add to those players whomever we may get from FA and the Daft this off season and it's really starting to look good.
Add to that an actual off season of preparation for both sides of the ball, which as you know is major in my opinion, and we could have a respectful season in 2012.
As has been said by you and others this is an extremely important off season for the Browns. The biggest one in years. Because we are close enough now to be dangerous and only a blown draft would set us behind at this point.
If Heckert equals his previous two drafts here with a third one of bringing in drafted starters and some wise FA signings we can be well on our way. As bad as we stunk in 2011 we were still close in most games.
Second year in the new schemes and some quality players brought in and we could be over the hump at least.
Quote: I saw one 3 week stint of the Cleveland Browns giving their young QB such a margin of error in 2010 before McCoy became our 3rd QB to wear a walking boot. I'm hoping it's a foreshadow of what can be once we conquer depth and talent deprivation.
The argument on here has been that he lacks an NFL arm to throw the deep ball and is not mentally capable of reading defenses or going through his progressions or spotting the man-to-man opportunities and confidently throwing to it.
The first point is physical and I don't believe Holmgren would have spoke up for him in the draft if lacked the arm. It's obvious he does not have an arm like Rogers, Brees, Big Ben or some others who manage the 50 yard bomb with consistency. Obviously Holmgren knew that going in but doesn't think our offense requires that. Plus, I have, and so has everyone else, seen McCoy throw some nice deep balls to some accurate spots for big plays. We saw him hit Little in stride on a deep ball down the middle of the field where the ball went 55 yards in the air. On that play Little was wide open like WR's get for Rogers, Brees and Big Ben. We do need more of that on a more consistent basis from both the WR's and the QB.
On his ability to read defenses and go through his progressions we all see him going through his progressions often. It was said that one of the reasons he was starting over Wallace was that Wallace only sees half the field whereas McCoy sees it all.
But in 2011 with the entire offense playing a new, difficult scheme with no preparation so learning it on the fly during the regular season it's no wonder McCoy, as well as the WR's, often, and I mean often, looked confused and unsure. Many say Colt regressed. But I saw it as giving Colt the ball and telling he and his WR's, "Here is a completely new offense. Now go out there and run it with no practice". I think that had a whole lot to do with his lack of confidence and the seemingly regression in his accuracy. Add to that the dropped balls at the most inopportune times and it all spelled the lack of an ability to sustain drives and score points.
I have no emotional ties to any player. I have no favorite player. I have a favorite team. It doesn't matter to me how the Browns handle the QB situation as I will be supportive of their decision regardless what it is. But pressed for my opinion I'd rather see what Heckert, who I feel has been successful so far, can do with the draft picks to improve the team and what the team can do in it's second year of the new schemes with a complete off season to prepare. I expect that combination of Draft, FA and an off season going into the second year would yield great improvement for the team.
If Heckert decides to trade away a large handful of picks to move up to #2 for the QB then I'm ok with that as well. I'd just like to think we don't need to do that to compete. Because I'm not talking about super bowls here although that is the main goal. I'm talking about one step at a time and the first step needed around here is respectibility and then move on from there.
how come the Browns can't develop interior o-lineman? Its been a staple since 1999.The Browns have seriously failed at drafting and developing mid rd o-lineman. The Saints might let Nicks walk and they will draft another OG that fits every criteria he set. see thats the thing about the Browns...they have never established a blueprint for success. they make dumb moves like let Vickers go but keep Robiskie around. they trade up for a RB with made of glass. They draft a TE who has barely played TE at all.... you get the picture
looking at the PDs list of "best at position since '99" interior OL is one of our strengths
O'Hara (either OC or OG) Faine - C Mack - C Fowler - C/OG Lauvao/Pinkston - have promise, still need to grow Steinbach - not drafted, so he doesn't count Ryan Tucker - good RG as well as RT Verba - one of the few brights spots early for us Hadnot / McKinney - non-drafted guys who were decent stop-gaps for their time.
I mean, it's not a great list by any means, but it is sadly better than most other position groups.
Denarius Moore played with 2 journeyman QB's and a QB that didn't have any kind of training camp or real knowledge of a playbook. yet despite all that,he managed to produce 3-100 yd games. I'm just saying Moore has something that the Browns WR's as a whole lacked last year..the ability to make big plays and being able to strecht a defense vertically. I'm sorry but Campbell and Boller are worse than McCoy and Palmer TD to INT ratio gets worse every year so he isn't that much better than Colt. as far Heckerts drafts go..he gets a B- or C plus from me. I grade him on who he selected,the positions he addressed..what he should have addressed,etc etc. remember the prior regimes set the bar so low before Heckert got here,it wouldn't be that hard for him to look like a genius compared to the Mangini's and Savage's. heck any one of us could have out drafted Mangini. Heckert just has to start drafting players that can get to elite status or All Pro status sooner than later... he's drafted too many guys in 2 years that have been average to mediorce and serviceable.
Quote: , Hillis ran through NE like a John Deere Tractor
Quite amazing what a running game does for the passing game. McCoy had a pretty good game also. 14/19 174 yards, 9.2 yards per completion and 101.6 QB rating. He didn't throw a TD but easily could have had 2 with better receiver play. At 1:57 if Cribbs keeps running and adjust to the ball properly it's 6 easy. McCoy put the ball where only his receiver could get it. At 3:07 in the video if Watson keeps running instead of turning and engaging the DB it's 6 easy. Even at 15 seconds in he throws a pass to Stuckey where many times you would see the Receiver make a play for the ball and cut in front of the DB.
Quote: Let's get a team here by addressing RDE, RT, WR, RB (man does it suck to type that), Secondary, and LBer. Believe it or not, there's more than 2 QBs with promising upside in this draft. The good news is we shouldn't have to trade a thing to land one to come in and compete with McCoy.
I agree 100%!
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 03/05/1203:07 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: see thats the thing about the Browns...they have never established a blueprint for success.
Isn't that pretty much inevitable when you change coaches, coordinators, FO every 2 or 3 years?
Quote: The Saints might let Nicks walk and they will draft another OG that fits every criteria he set.
Nobody on here would have ever wanted to draft Nicks in the first place.. Switched colleges twice from New Mexico State to Juco then transfered to Nebraska with only a couple years of big time college football experience.. Had a reputation for being a problem on and off the field at Nebraska... the vast majority of this board would have labeled him a huge risk and said "no thanks"... even in the 5th round...
I don't disagree with you that the Browns never had a blueprint before (though I think we do now).. it takes more than 2 years to plan and execute your blueprint before you start seeing results..
However, one other thing that should be obvious is that the WRs were actually making plays. Gee ..... how can that be when they all suck?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I'd say at least half of McCoy's throws were coming off play action. Play action is only effective if you can run the football. another thing that stood out..I didn't see any drops by the WR/TE/RB's. amazing how a drive can stay alive if you hold on to the football. not having Hillis around for a full season only hurt McCoy. McCoys legs are good enough to make teams pay if they can't finish the deal on him in the backfield.
Quote: It does make me wonder what happened to the kid.
However, one other thing that should be obvious is that the WRs were actually making plays. Gee ..... how can that be when they all suck?
So how can it be that Colt sucked this year - in your opinion?
Brand new offense? Receivers knew it as well (or as little) as Colt?
No running game?
Suppose those are possibilities?
Here's how I see it: Colt CAN hit moving targets, in stride. No problem. Colt DID make his reads/progressions.
Colt DID stand in the pocket.
So, what is different from that year (2 seasons ago) when Colt was expected to not even see the field - - - and this year, when you say he sucked, didn't make his reads/progressions, can't throw down field, etc.?
What's different? Could it be a whole new offense? QB learning new things, the line learning new things, our sucky receivers learning new things? No running game?
Ah, hell no, that can't be even one tiny tangent of what happened, can it? Let's just get a new qb. Let's dump the 3rd round pick that costs us basically nothing.......and go for the bright shiny new qb that has proven very little even in college, but will cost us multiple draft picks, plus probably more money in 1 year than colt has cost in his whole contract (I don't know that to be true - just guessing)...............and then what?
Well, then we'll hear all the colt bashers and griffin backers saying "well, geez, we need weapons. a qb can't do it on his own" blah blah blah.
Here it is, plain and simple: In the 2010 season, while not expected to see the field and totally ignored by the coaches - when Colt DID play, he did exactly what the naysayers are saying he can't do. He hit moving targets, accurately. He threw deep, accurately. He stayed in the pocket. He stepped into the pocket.
Quote: It does make me wonder what happened to the kid.
However, one other thing that should be obvious is that the WRs were actually making plays. Gee ..... how can that be when they all suck?
Ytown, I am rather surprised at this question from you. This typically stems from anti McCoy sentiment going around that you choose to ask, " What happened to the kid ". Instead of grasping the big picture and realizing what happened was what everyone has been stating all along and it has less to do with "the kid" and more to do with everything else. The receivers in actuality were doing the things receivers are supposed to do and that is catch the ball. When in fact they had a nice game, they actually missed plays that should have been made. The "what happened", as explained thoroughly over time and I don't think needs to be listed again.
The video show's McCoy stretching the field, going through progressions, freezing the safety(see pump fake), changing the play at the line on the 4th and 1, throwing deep, and throwing very accurately on the run and in the pocket and by the way, he made some big plays with his legs. In essence, everything that has been posted that McCoy can't do. You can argue that he will need to be more consistent but with consistency around you, you become consistent. For the fun of it I went and watched Bradford in Shurmer's offense after a full off season and being selected #1 overall and it was ugly and looked like last year. Here it is if interested.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 03/05/1205:44 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: However, one other thing that should be obvious is that the WRs were actually making plays. Gee ..... how can that be when they all suck?
Well, you have a select few who think everything is Colt's fault.. then you have another select few who believe that all of the WRs suck... then you have a WIDE chasm in between of people who try to explain our offenses ineptitude as a function of a variety of factors with varying degrees of weight.... and those people are typically referred to as excuse makers or fence sitters because they can't identify one focal point to be THE problem..
I watch Colt McCoy this year early in a few games throw a long completed pass and then that play or one like it was never seen again the rest of the game. Was that Play calling or was it the guys not getting open or was it Colt checking down?
I felt we missed Chancy Stuckey's veteran leadership from the year before, the offensive play calling IMO looked to be just that...offensive.
The beginning of the year they didn't use Hillis properly trying to pass the ball, took away Vickers and then tried to make Hillis run to the outside with no lead blocker and wondering why he couldn't get the edge. Taking Hillis out in 1st and goal and running Hardesty only to watch him get stuffed at the line. Running a 3rd string running back on 4th and 1 in the Titans game instead of Hillis.
Hillis also had the strep game where he missed and Hardesty did an ok job of running against Miami, so the next game they wanted to give Hardesty more touches. Then Hillis got the Hamstring injury and missed 5 games.
IDK, I'm no expert but it seemed like to me that our offensive guru coaching staff didn't know how to use our players, or I should say they didn't know how to tweek their system to fit the players they had, instead they tried to make the players fit their system and some of them didn't.
Which is why I am kind of worried about RG3, because I don't know if our coaching staff has the ability to tweek the system to fit his abilities. He is not the typical WCO QB, and I don't know if it is arrogance or what, but our coaches run a system and don't change from that.
Quote: IDK, I'm no expert but it seemed like to me that our offensive guru coaching staff didn't know how to use our players, or I should say they didn't know how to tweek their system to fit the players they had, instead they tried to make the players fit their system and some of them didn't.
I'm no Shurmur apologist but I keep reminding myself that he didn't have much of an off-season to evaluate his team just like the team didn't have an off-season to digest the nuances of the playbook...
So in some respect, I will give him a fair amount leniency in trying to figure out what would work and what wouldn't on the fly...
Understood, however I saw John Fox on the fly tweek his system to fit Tebow and Harbaugh did a great job implementing his system in San Fran with the same offseason that Shurmur had. I'll concede that he had a lot more talent to work with, however look at the turn around job on Alex Smith. People were calling him a bust and I saw him make some great throws in the playoffs.
This will hopefully keep Washington from making an offer that can't be refused. The Rams still want to trade with the Browns because the 4th pick is far more valuable than the 6th. Drive the price down and then give up 2 picks.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)