I just don't see Tannehill as a good option for us. Frankly I don't see him as that special a QB. He was a 2nd rounder prior to the combine, and now people are talking about him at 4. That's just crazy talk IMHO.
Maybe if he could come in and sit for a couple of years like Rodgers did ..... then maybe I'd take him ...... but I just don't see him being a viable starter until, at best, sometime in his 2nd year.
If we go through yet another horrible year, the pressure is really going to be on HH&S. I think that they have to come up with surefire starters in this draft, not guys who will sit on the bench and hopefully develop ... not in the first round anyway. I think that they almost have to get to 8-8 this year, no excuses, questions, or reason why they didn't. 3 losing seasons to open up their tenure (Holmgren and Heckert's anyway) would be a pretty damning indictment on their regime. I don;t care how bad the team was, people turn around teams in less time. Hell, the 49'ers sucked in a bad division last year, and turned around in one year.
I think that we go one of 3 ways at this point, and they all suck.
1) We sign Flynn. He's going to be a highly questionable, and expensive choice now. I'm not sure we'll even be able to sign him. If we do, he better be "all that", and he better win too.
2) We draft Weeden. Heckert loves the guy. Who knows?
3) We stick with Colt McCoy. This is risky for HH&S. If McCoy continues to struggle, and the team continues to lose, then everything they do is called into question. These guys were brought in to find the QB, and fix the offense. Thus far we don't have a real answer at QB, and the offense looks more limited than Mangini's. Not a good sign for a trio of offensive guys. Tannehill might buy them a season ..... but damn, they better be right, and he better be a breakout superstar in his 2nd year. If not .... then why do they have jobs? This was their entire reason for being brought in.
Right now the Browns have a lot of bad choices. Par for the course for us.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: the people bemoaning this trade aren't upset with Heckert for not topping the deal, just for the fact that we're stuck with mediocre QB options.
This quote made me realize that I don't know exactly how to feel right now.
Fact 1: You cannot win in this league without a QB.
Fact 2: There is no guarantee RG3 is going to be any good.
Talk about the ultimate risk/reward. There is a part of me that wished the Browns would have been aggressive and did whatever it took. There is an equal part of me that thinks the price was too high.
This is going to sound very obtuse, but maybe we will finally get lucky for once. Maybe we will bring in a guy like Flynn or Tannehill, and they will surprise. Or maybe McCoy pulls a Brees. Aren't we due for some luck?
I'm numb to most of this by now anyway. Not really looking forward to the season. Just kind of blah. Probably because I feel like all we have to hope for is a little bit of luck. But we've got to be due, right?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I do agree that the Browns should not have made the trade that the Skins did.
I think that given the two options I laid out that the Browns should focus on upgrading the talent at the positions other than QB, since I don't think as significant an upgrade is available at the QB position as there is at other positions of (in some cases dire) need. WR, RB, RT, DE, CB all need to be invested in getting premium talent. QB upgrade is needed too, IMO, but you can't get water from a dry well.
I'm surprised that the deal got done now. I was firmly in the camp that it wouldn't get done until draft day. So, I was wrong about that (assuming this all goes through, which it likely will).
That being said, I also was firmly in the camp that if we were going to give things up to the Rams, I wanted them to be just from this draft. I didn't like the idea of getting a guy like RGIII, then having to rely on later round draft picks and free agents to fill in.
I am surprised the Rams wouldn't trade with us, especially if we offered our 4, 22 and next year's first. They gave up 2 1sts this year and 2 1sts next year for 2 1sts next year and 2 1sts the following year. Maybe a wash, I don't know. I can see what another poster said, though, too, that the Rams may have dropped down too far (unless they're certain we're not going to take Blackmon and neither is TB. But, that doesn't mean we wouldn't trade out with someone who does want him).
In any event, I'm glad we didn't do it. I think we can get a very good player at 4 and another very good player at 22. I think that there will be some very good options for us at 37, too. Then, next year, we can still get 1st round talent.
That all being said, and putting my man love for Blackmon aside, I hope we trade down. Still in the top 10 (especially if someone wants to jump up to grab Claiborne or Blackmon before the Rams can take him, e.g. Jacksonville) and stock up on more picks next year.
I hope RGIII does well in the league. There are few guys I wish failure upon. Him going to Washington means we'll play him pretty rarely.
I'm kind of torn now on a trade down. Would love to draft Claiborne there and have the best young starting corner tandem in the league. Would also love to trade down, get an extra pick, and take Richardson.
The only thing I know for sure is I don't want to reach for a QB because we missed out on RG3. I think if I hear Tannehill's name announced with the 4th pick (and I have nothing against him and trust some of the good opinions on here about him), I think I'll just turn off the TV.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
The answer IMO is because all that are available are average QBs. Why burn premium picks to hopefully upgrade a position from below average to average when you can turn a weakness into a strength?
At this point, we need receivers who can break and avoid tackles on quick hitters, then run away from defenders. I'm hoping for Blackmon and Wright with our first two picks.
Hard to even come to grips with how disgusted I am right now.
Washington made it happen. The Browns failed.
The reasons are obvious. Why do you think Denver is rolling out the red carpet for Manning?
Washington and Denver recognize that you have to have a great quarterback to win.
I thought there was no way the Browns were not going to land Griffin. Just the history of Holmgren with Walsh. His experience with mobile quarterbacks. Steve Young, and Seneca Wallace playing in the offense he was so committed to.
Griffin having every characteristic you could want.
Now they can put all the spin they want to on Tannehill or "we love McCoy".
All garbage, our view of the AFC North will remain the same as it is now.
Players like Luck and Griffin do NOT come along often. Talk all you want about Barkley, Landry Jones, or Tannehill sorry not even close.
There is no player in this draft that can have the effect that Griffin would have brought.
Holmgren and Heckert have failed and they will join the others before them in a couple years because their failure.
the Browns have no choice but to return to the formula that turned the Browns pass defense into the 2nd best in the NFL
Post the the 3rd worst rushing defense in the NFL?
Yep ..... but people won't see that.
We allowed 133, (to the Rams, the 2nd worst team in the NFL) 108, (to Jacksonville, the laughing stock, other than us, in the NFL) 132 to the Bengals, 290 to Baltimore, 147 to the Steelers, 74 to the Cardinals, (yea) 162 to the Ravens (Yeah, but look at the improvement from a few weeks ago) and 161 to the Steelers.
For comparison's sake, the Jags game was our 2nd best effort in the 2nd half of last season. 11 teams did better than that for the entire season.
*Sigh*
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The answer IMO is because all that are available are average QBs. Why burn premium picks to hopefully upgrade a position from below average to average when you can turn a weakness into a strength?
At this point, we need receivers who can break and avoid tackles on quick hitters, then run away from defenders. I'm hoping for Blackmon and Wright with our first two picks.
Then why not sign one of the FA QB's and upgrade the QB position that way?
Another year of below average QB play is, for me, unacceptable. This regime's number one goal was to solve the QB position and so far they have failed spectacularly.
Flynn is still available (if he's as good as some think he is). There are quality QBs in the draft (Tannehill and Weeden). There may be some quality QBs in FA (like Jason Campbell).
Not sure I'm ready to give up on this regime just yet.
In fact, if you want to be optimistic, I'd say that it's encouraging that this regime was willing to give up what I think is a big payment in order to get RGIII. I think that shows they recognize that our QB position needs help.
I was against it, but we need something on offense, and a WR isn't going to have that big of an impact.
I would go WR with our 2nd 1st rounder, and then draft Weeden (and pray) with our 2nd.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Lol, my wife said this should be the Browns' theme song.
I happen to think this one is a better fit.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Glazer: Rams, Redskins strike deal for No. 2 pick Posted by Mike Florio on March 9, 2012, 10:29 PM EST The Dolphins had better offer Peyton Manning more money, because their Plan B has now evaporated.
Jay Glazer of FOX Sports reports that the Rams and the Redskins have agreed to terms on a deal that will send the second overall pick in the 2012 draft to Washington. The Redskins undoubtedly will pick quarterback Robert Griffin III. (Or, at the very worst, Andrew Luck.)
Glazer says that the team will swap first-round picks in 2012, with St. Louis taking the No. 6 pick. The Rams also get two future first-round picks and additional selections, one of which is believed to be a second-rounder.
Nice post! Thanks! If we look at all the teams drafting in the top 8 this year - how many of them have first round QBs? 5 right? If we ask how many of these teams have young QBs starting there's 6.
Don't many of these young QBs need either need an important pass protecting Tackle or a game changing WR? Giving up at least 2 consecutive 1st round draft picks and 1 second round pick removes the perk other young QBs are going to receive in getting this key offensive prospect to help the young QB.
Do you know what Andrew Luck is going to get that RGIII won't receive? First round help in 2013 and 2014. We're not exactly talking about Pittsburgh's front office that can land ho a Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, or Emmanuelle Sanders after round 1. We're talking about NFL body by Daniel Snyder, which has every football fan in DC missing the previous ownership considerably.
David doesn't beat Goliath without an accurate slingshot...
I haven't given up on the regime yet either. I'm just saying that below average QB play is not going to be acceptable again next year. If McCoy is back, he has to be at least average.
I'm not asking for much. I'm asking for average QB play. That should easily be obtainable. I do hope that Kolb does get cut in Arizona, because I think I'd like to see him here.
I agree 100% (though not necessarily about Kolb as I have no opinion on him). If we enter this year with the QB tandem of McCoy and Wallace, I think we will suffer unless they both improve dramatically. I don't expect that from Wallace. We know what we have in him. McCoy is the one who "might" improve.
Because if we get help at RT and WR and he still can't look like a true NFL QB, then that makes the decision easier. Then maybe next year we sell the farm to get a guy like Barkley. Heck, if McCoy struggles again this year, we might not have to owning the no. 1 pick.
I think we end up with Tannehill at 4 unless we drop a couple spots and draft him at 6 or close.
btw...saw Tannehill throwing it around with WRs before the drills.
He looks like a stud tossing it around.
Combine that with some serious athleticism and experience under Sherman in the WCO....
Holmgren is going to figure out how to sell this but he will....bank it.
Looks like this is going to come to fruition.
I'm excited about having Tannehill under center. I do hope we hold him back until after the bye week because AFC North defenses are just a wee bit better than the Big XII.
Resign Hillis, get a top flight free agent WR and draft a competent RT for the long term...and I'd be excited to see how this develops.
A lot of people are down on Tannehill but he has two main things going for him.
For all those guys freaking out that we must get a QB... do we? If we don't get a potential starter in this years draft or free agency.. so what? its not the end of the world. There is always next year.
We drafted Colt in the 3rd round.. he hasn't set the league on fire, but he will grow and get better.
Build up all the other pieces.. and then insert QB.. if Colt is not ur guy.
Quote: Plan A is gone (we obviously were in the bidding from all reports), and I'm not sure I would have paid THAT price but we should have paid less since we're at 4 and had another 1st this draft...
anyway...I'm confident enough in Heckert that he has a plan B, C, D and more
At this point I'll join Mourg's bandwagon and pull for Tannehill, that'd be my plan B now, plan C being Weeden, plan D Flynn and plan E Campbell and mid rounder
Not sure Tannehill can come in day 1 and beat out McCoy...so maybe both "camps" get their wish...McCoy gets another half season to show he's trash and then Tannehill takes over as soon as he's ready (or as soon as fans are finally fed up with Colt)...I hope though that we sign a stop gap QB like Henne, Orton, Campbell if we draft Tannehill...because....if we draft Tannehill, he'll be considered our franchise guy and McCoy has still some trade value as a backup QB option....he won't re-sign with us anyway as a backup, might as well get what we can and trade him then, rather then keeping him around as a "lame duck QB"...would be best for both
U and I tend to be on similar pages on analysis,but after this...I almostfeel like..WHATEVER..the wind was taken out of me a bit..I thought the Browns like RG because Shurnmur gave it away when he wanted to watch his game on TV..I hope Washington implodes from not having any draft picks to use..
Quote: For all those guys freaking out that we must get a QB... do we? If we don't get a potential starter in this years draft or free agency.. so what? its not the end of the world. There is always next year.
We drafted Colt in the 3rd round.. he hasn't set the league on fire, but he will grow and get better.
Build up all the other pieces.. and then insert QB.. if Colt is not ur guy.
I personally don't see McCoy growing into 'the guy', but if he's under center for another year, I can live with it, so long as we're building a solid foundation for his replacement to stand on.
I, for one, am pretty stoked that Washington pulled the trigger on this and not us. Griffin at 4, fine. Staking the mortgage on an unproven commodity when the cupboard is already bare is not my idea of success.
But some people around here act like Griffin is the last QB prospect that's going to come down the pike for decades. There will be more, and the more we've built up a solid team, the brighter the idea of them under center will become.
But some people around here act like Griffin is the last QB prospect that's going to come down the pike for decades. There will be more, and the more we've built up a solid team, the brighter the idea of them under center will become.
Quote: I personally don't see McCoy growing into 'the guy',
I think he can. I think we need to give him the tools to work with. A running game, RT and WR's that don't drop every pass thrown to them
Quote: but if he's under center for another year, I can live with it, so long as we're building a solid foundation for his replacement to stand on.
Solid back up plan.
Quote: I, for one, am pretty stoked that Washington pulled the trigger on this and not us. Griffin at 4, fine. Staking the mortgage on an unproven commodity when the cupboard is already bare is not my idea of success.
But some people around here act like Griffin is the last QB prospect that's going to come down the pike for decades. There will be more, and the more we've built up a solid team, the brighter the idea of them under center will become.
Quote: I just don't see Tannehill as a good option for us. Frankly I don't see him as that special a QB. He was a 2nd rounder prior to the combine, and now people are talking about him at 4. That's just crazy talk IMHO.
Do you really believe that was the case? Someone shows up at the combines and goes from 2nd round to top 10 prospect because hmm interviews. I mean that is all he was able to do since he was out with a broken bone in his foot.
Draft boards are 99% set before the National championship game. The only reason that you see guys shoot up the board is because the media and draft sites are slow to recognize people the scouts already held in high regard.
these kids rarely move up at all to be honest. Others may fall due to poor interviews, medical, background checks, or in the case of Mauluga ask the team driver to stop at the strip bar or a drink before going in for your interview.
The only time a great workout helps is when you have two guys rated even on everything else and it may help then but more often than not it will come down to need or a GUT feeling.
We have been scouting Tannehill especially hard for some time and for good reason. Hell I think we will draft him but if we don't I won't complain because there are some good prospects. Now if we don't take him and take a guy like Coples then i will rip Heckert as bad as I did when we signed Delhomme.
Quote: Lol, guess I was wrong, there are some people that wanted us to top Washington's deal.
I know right, crazy.
Had we kept raising until we got the #2, those people would be happy.....but they would also be the same people saying how horrible of a trade it was when RG3 doesn't deliver a playoff win within 2 years.
RG3 isn't a franchise QB. He could be, just like Luck or any other guy in the draft. I'm not going all in, at those stakes, for an unknown.
I think the "Factory of Sadness" people need to go take a leap. Being a fan of a team doesn't mean you're guaranteed winning seasons or titles.....you're just a fan of them, that's it. If you can't accept losing, tough times and feel like your team are failures when they don't trade 3 firsts and 1 second for ONE unproven QB......then leave.
People are acting like we owned the #2 pick and are passing on RG3....like it's a massive oversight on our part. The Skins paid WAAAAYYYY too much for this guy and all the pressure in the world will be on him. We still have all of our picks, lots of cap room and many years in the future to continue the build.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
Three first rounders ( 4, 22, and 2013) plus a third this year.
The fourth pick is a swap. So it cost pick 22, next years unknown first and a third this year. If you have to then give up the second this year. if the third is not enough.
There is no excuse for the Browns to let a team behind them in the draft land Griffin.
Now we all get to watch for the next 15 years and say "I wish we would have".
Like I said, I can't see us taking a guy who will be zero help this year with #4. Some teams can afford that risk. Some teams can take a guy with very limited experience and hope that he beats the long odds that shortfall entails. Cam Newton did it last year. However, Ryan Tannehill isn't Cam Newton. He may have been that once in a generation guy who makes a huge leap like that.
Some teams can take a guy with their first round pick and get nothing from him this year, and maybe even part of next. We aren't that kind of team. If we don't get a true franchise level QB, then we can't take the 3rd best option that high. That would be career suicide for HH&S. Imagine this team winning 4 games again, with Ryan Tannehill sitting on the bench, and the braintrust still not sure that he's ready to go on day 1 of the 2013 season. Ugh. They might as well start packing then.
Right now I am changing my thought process, and saying that we should go with Richardson at 4. I am against taking a RB that high, but we need a player with that pick who will make a huge impact as a rookie, and he's the best we could get on offense. We can look at WR with our 2nd 1st round pick to "surround McCoy with weapons", and finally know for sure what he is. We can take Weeden with our 2nd round pick, and hope that he is what we need if McCoy continues to struggle. We can fill holes from there. Hopefully we can find a veteran WR who actually wants to play here under our current situation, but i cannot imagine such a player's agent recommending us if the player has a choice. I don't see that happening until and unless we get the QB position filled by a player who makes a visiting free agent WR think that he can make him a star. Guys want money, no doubt about it ..... but they also want their career to continue and be successful. A WR is completely reliant on the QB he plays with. A bad QB can end a WR's career in no time flat. Heck, we have a guy who looked really promising in his rookie year in MoMass ....... over 18 yards/catch ...... yet here he is, struggling with QBs who cannot throw a deep pass ........ and on the verge of being cut. I would think that a free agent WR would see the same thing, and would, at the very least, have major reservations about signing with a team with nothing but question marks at the QB position.
Right now that's all we have.
As far as your question to me ..... do you really believe, even with the premium placed on the QB position, that Ryan Tannehill is anywhere near the 4th best player in this draft? 7th best? 10th best? I don't see him in the top 15 personally ..... and that's with a super QB premium added in. Inexperienced QBs generally do not make it in the NFL. That is fact. QBs with less than 2 seasons worth of starts, no matter how supremely talented, usually don't become successful NFL QBs. Can you find me 5 such guys in the last 10 years? I'll give you one: Cam Newton. I'll even give you a second of dubious distinction in Matt Cassell. Can you give me 3 others?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: "We have been scouting Tannehill especially hard for some time and for good reason."
So why did we go after RGIII so hard if we love Tannehill ?
Hell we could have been inquiring about a trade up if Luck happened to fall. Rams call up Snyder, Hey I got the Browns on the phone and they are wanting to move up so if you want to make a deal better do it now.
Three first rounders ( 4, 22, and 2013) plus a third this year.
The fourth pick is a swap. So it cost pick 22, next years unknown first and a third this year. If you have to then give up the second this year. if the third is not enough.
There is no excuse for the Browns to let a team behind them in the draft land Griffin.
Now we all get to watch for the next 15 years and say "I wish we would have".
That is wrong. It was a swap of this years first plus 3 additional 1st round picks and a second. St louis was hell bent on getting three firsts because they knew their buyer from day 1 and that was Snyder. I agree that if the Brown's wanted him they could have had him, but they didn't want him. If you believe any of this funny stuff that they entered the bidding at the last minute and raised their bid then you are delusional. I don't think any of us will yearn for Griffin at any time in the next 15 years.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
I have been a fan of this team for almost 40 years ..... game in and game out ...... living and dying with each victory, or far more often, loss.
I started following the Browns about the time I was 10 years old. That's 38 years ago.
What have I seen?
I have seen this team manage 12 winning seasons. 12. That means 23 losing seasons. (we lost 3 to oblivion when MoSMell screwed us) I have seen them go a combined 236-319. Think about that for a minute. I have lived every stinking year in a Steelers fan infested town ... hearing all about their 8 trips to, and 6 wins in the Super Bowl .... while we haven't even made it to one.
I have watched this team march out wretchedly awful players at the QB position, one after another after another ..... and we, surprise, keep losing.
Our best QB, from both a statistical and wins standpoints, since this team came back from non-existence, is Derek Anderson.
Think about that for a minute. Derek Anderson is the standard of excellence by which all others must be compared. he is the franchise leader in single season TD passes. The franchise leader.
I watched my beloved team stolen away, and then win a Super Bowl elsewhere.
Yes, I am sick of it. I'm not going to leave the team that I love ..... because even though it's an abusive relationship, I must somehow enjoy the beatings. I have been here for every single heartbreak ..... every single disgusting blowout, and the all too few high points that I could rub in Steelers fans' faces.
Go take a leap? I think not.
Just because I love this team doesn't mean that I cannot be disgusted with their inability to get things turned around. I don't think that a winning season now and then, or even a streak of winning seasons is too much to ask. Maybe you do. maybe you like losing. I don't. I am sick of it. I can't leave, but that doesn't mean that I am going to pretend that I am just fine with us stinking up the joint every freakin' year.
If you can't handle that, then maybe you should take a leap.
Have a nice day.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Where have you read that St Louis got 4 first round picks?
if it was 3, why would they take 3 from Washington, where their pick this year is inferior to theirs, and we could offer a 1st round pick this year, locked in at 22, while the Rams have to gamble on what they will wind up with from the Redskins?
I bet that we could have had the pick for both 1st round picks this year, a 2nd next year, and a 1st in 2014. is that an ideal situation? No. However, by accounts, it was the Browns refusal to add their second 1st rounder this year that doomed our bid. I would have done that.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: If it's me, at this point, I draft Richardson.
I was against it, but we need something on offense, and a WR isn't going to have that big of an impact.
I would go WR with our 2nd 1st rounder, and then draft Weeden (and pray) with our 2nd.
I know we're just rehashing old debates (what else do we have to do?) but I'm so against a RB w/ our first pick. I'm happy w/ Heckert's best player available there at #4. And thre are awesome WRs to be taken in the 2nd round and awesome RBs to be had in rounds 2 - 4 . . .
And whoever is talking Tanehill at pick 4 needs to stop right NOW . . .
I am so ready for free agency to come and go!!!!!!
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Do you really believe that was the case? Someone shows up at the combines and goes from 2nd round to top 10 prospect because hmm interviews. I mean that is all he was able to do since he was out with a broken bone in his foot. 
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