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Since the RG3 debacle is behind us....
Now we all are assuming the Vikings will be taking Kalil. My question is what if they decide to go with a Blackmon/Percy combo?
Is it plausible that the Vikings could take Blackmon and if they do, who is the best option for us?
Even though i am in love with Blackmon i would love to get Kalil. Thomas, Mack, and Kalil sounds like a great line for the future. That would give us a back-up LT if Thomas ever goes down and solid line pieces for the future. Plug in play LG and Lavaou at RG and we have a Strong offensive line for the future.
Clairborne is still an excellent pick but I'm wasn't impressed with him at the combine. I think he has tight hips and definitely needs to work on some fundmental techniques. He is an great athlete with long arms, which I think helped him to recover. I really don't believe that he is that far ahead of Kirpatrick.
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I predict
#4 Tannehill
#22 Cordy Glenn
#37 Curry
3rd Dwight Jones
I hope
#4 Tannehill
#22 Mercilus
#37 Alshon Jeffery
3rd round Mitchell Swartz
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in a word, NO- its not possible that they pass on Kalil. Their left tackle is a turnstyle, and Hutchinson is supposed to be released as well. This pick has o-line written all over it.
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Tannehill is such a reach at 4...this draft is gonna suck
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I'm working on my "The Case for Kalil" post - might be up in a few days (pretty busy right now).
At this point my Brown Big board looks like:
1 Luck
2 Kalil
3 Claiborne
4 Richardson
5 Floyd
6 Ingram
7 DeCastro
8 Martin
9 Kuechly
10 Blackmon
11 RG3
12 Reiff
13 Coples
14 Upshaw
15 Barron
16 Kirkpatrick
17 Perry
We should be in good position to get at least two of those guys - which would make me happy.
~Lyuokdea
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My preference for the Browns goes like this:
1. Luck
2. RG3
3. Blackmon
4. Cliaborne
5. Kalil
....
We don't have a true #1 WR, and we have to get one to have any sort of passing threat. Hopefully they get one in FA, but if they can't then Blackmon remains my #3 choice. CB#2 and RT aren't as important to me because I think we can address those needs later in the draft.
Now suppose the Vikings take Blackmon or Claiborne and Kalil drops in our lap. He's the best LT prospect in the draft, do you think the Rams would trade up to get him? I think they would give up Washington's 2nd or STL 3rd to swap up to 4 to grab Kalil. That wouldn't be a bad trade and we could still address WR1 by taking Floyd at 6 or get a DE like Coples or Ingram. Might be worth it...
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if we are doing Tannehill that early- i hope we can trade back a bit, maybe Jacksonville. That would make more sense.
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If they somehow pass on Kalil, I have a feeling we'll be fielding some crazy trade offers.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
I'm working on my "The Case for Kalil" post - might be up in a few days
I would save your time, he won't be there. And it doesn't make sense to trade up for him. And i'm not so sure that he would do all that well at RT anyways...
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Anything is possible.
If Kalil is available at #4....I trade his rights to the best offer.
He is a LT....so is Joe. As good as they are at LT, I don't think either would become a awesome RT. Both are a little light and run blocking isn't their best talent.
I am not saying they aren't good run blockers, but neither is a classic pancake run blocker who can collapse the right side like you typically want in a RT.
To me, in some ways a good RT is harder to find than a good LT. The guy who can drive block AND pass protect with some skill is pretty hard to find.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
If they somehow pass on Kalil, I have a feeling we'll be fielding some crazy trade offers.
Agreed - and as much as I love Kalil, I'd take it if the value is there.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
If they somehow pass on Kalil, I have a feeling we'll be fielding some crazy trade offers.
And we should drive up the price, early and often.
#GMSTRONG
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If Kalil is there you take him and don't look back. He would easily be the best player on the board at 4. At this point we just need to continue to upgrade talent on our roster. He grades out as high as any offensive line prospect since Joe Thomas. We all know how that worked out. Having two hall of fame caliber players on your offensive line is a good problem to have. He would simply be the biggest talent upgrade we could make if that situation presented itself.
With that said, he won't be there at four.
Just take Trent Richardson and get it over with. Having a hybrid Adrian Peterson/Maurice Jones Drew type player in your backfield will make your team better fast.
I say Heckert needs to keep it simple and continue to accumulate young talent. Draft the best player available at ANY position of need. When you do that then there will be plenty of quarterbacks that will want to play for us down the line. If we reach for Tannehill at four I will be on suicide watch.
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Quote:
if we are doing Tannehill that early- i hope we can trade back a bit, maybe Jacksonville. That would make more sense.
big...I agree that the #4 slot is probably too high for Tannehill, but the Skins/Rams trade was more than most thought the #2 slot was worth.
This year, it appears that QBs are a priority and with teams like the Broncos and Cards kicking tires on the Peyton Manning bus, there could be more teams willing to move up to draft Tannehill.
We know that Miami and Seattle are on the hunt for a QB too, so if the Browns want Tannehill, they may have to draft him at #4...like it or not.
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He is a LT....so is Joe. As good as they are at LT, I don't think either would become a awesome RT. Both are a little light and run blocking isn't their best talent.
I am not saying they aren't good run blockers, but neither is a classic pancake run blocker who can collapse the right side like you typically want in a RT.
To me, in some ways a good RT is harder to find than a good LT. The guy who can drive block AND pass protect with some skill is pretty hard to find.
I dunno Peen, I think I'd take Joe over pretty much any RT in football (at the RT position). Sure, he might not be the best runblocker, but his pass protection is excellent and his runblocking is good too.
Some excellent DE's like Julius Peppers play on the left side. Strahan played on the left side.
Having a RT who can do both is great. I think people often get too caught up in, RT has to be a runblocker mentallity. Generally the RT isnt as good of a passblocker as LT because of the QB's blindside. But pass blocking is definitely a major part of their game, either way.
If we draft Kalil to be a RT, he'll do very well. Will there be better RT's at runblocking, probably. But as a whole package, Kalil would be hard to beat.... That being said, I'd rather use that 4 on someone like Blackmon and hope to get Reif, Martin, or hopefully....Glenn to man the RT position. That's just from a value standpoint though.......
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Quote:
1 Luck
2 Kalil
3 Claiborne
4 Richardson
5 Floyd
6 Ingram
7 DeCastro
8 Martin
9 Kuechly
10 Blackmon
11 RG3
12 Reiff
13 Coples
14 Upshaw
15 Barron
16 Kirkpatrick
17 Perry.
This list is the best proof why this draft class sucks for 1st round picks...a G, an undersized DE, any RB and a DUI-filled WR in the top 10..and Kuechly over RG3, lol...Kuechly is so overrated, he's a good, solid LB but doesn't make a lot of big plays...he's a Laurianitis...shouldn't be on any Top 20 list in any draft imho
TRADE PICK #22 !!
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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First, Kalil is a really good run-blocker - he's strong and can bowl a guy over -- just because he has good feet doesn't make him "not a RT"
Second, most starting RTs in the NFL were LTs in college.
Third, we run a WCO - which doesn't mean that we don't need run blocking, but we also need a guy who can get out and make blocks on the second level (for the screen pass game) - Kalil provides both.
Fourth, he'd be the BPA by far, and at one of the primo positions in the NFL - you don't pass on that.
~Lyuokdea
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Quote:
I predict
#4 Tannehill
#22 Cordy Glenn
#37 Curry
3rd Dwight Jones
I hope
#4 Tannehill
#22 Mercilus
#37 Alshon Jeffery
3rd round Mitchell Swartz
I really hope your wrong... Tannehill at #4 is such a reach. IMHO i dont believe Tannehill will be even considered by any team until late 1st or 2nd.
I like mercilus, but not Jeffrey. Jeffery dropped off the radar from top 10 pick to 2-3rd rounder for good reason.
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If Kalil is there you take him and don't look back. He would easily be the best player on the board at 4. At this point we just need to continue to upgrade talent on our roster. He grades out as high as any offensive line prospect since Joe Thomas. We all know how that worked out. Having two hall of fame caliber players on your offensive line is a good problem to have. He would simply be the biggest talent upgrade we could make if that situation presented itself.
My issue with that is that Kalil will play here for four years and then become an UFA. Then he gets one more year with the franchise tag. So that's five years.
After that he HAS to become our LT. How long is Joe Thomas' contract? Will that fit? Because I don't think we'll want to be paying two tackles mega contracts........... Joe just turned 27 in December. So he'll probably have just turned 33 when we'd have to give Kalil a mega contract. Probably will still be going strong.
I'd rather have Trent Richardson/Blackmon (skill position players who we'll keep here longer than 5 years at 4 and a RT or Ryan Tannehill at 22 (hope that he's there).
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Quote:
Quote:
if we are doing Tannehill that early- i hope we can trade back a bit, maybe Jacksonville. That would make more sense.
big...I agree that the #4 slot is probably too high for Tannehill, but the Skins/Rams trade was more than most thought the #2 slot was worth.
It was more than some fans thought that pick was worth.
Many of the experts and national writers said it was going to take at least 3 first round picks to acquire the pick, and it did. No surprise there. I didn't think it would get to that, but I would have paid that price.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It's not a matter of them doing well, they would. Part of it is keeping them happy, and you can't pay LT money to your RT, and if the guy is a legit LT, he will want to be paid as one. No?? But after that, no, I don't think JT would be a great RT....he would be good, but it is a different body type. LT's seem to have shoulders wider than their hips. It is why they move better. RT's have hips as wide or wider than their shoulders. It's why they can drive the blocking sled further than anybody. In horse terms, it like a race horse and a plow horse. Same animal, totally different purpose. Put a plow horse in a race and it won't look very impressive. Put a race horse in front of a plow and you aren't going to turn much earth. Or to put it differently, you want the horse on the left side, the Ox on the right side. That's it....I want a Ox at RT.....but one quick enough to pass block in most cases.. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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yt...demand determines market value...
If the Seahawks do not get Manning or Flynn, they are going to be looking at the draft to find their QB...same for the Dolphins. The Dolphins have the #8 slot and the Seahawks have #12...would they take Tannehill?
When there are teams willing to do almost anything to get what they want...we either have to use our #4 or look at another option, such as Flynn.
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Or we say that neither Flynn nor Tannehill is all that, and we move on without them.
We could then take a QB later in the draft, and do exactly what so many people have been crying for us to do, and that's build around McCoy. Those people can have their wish .... but now it seems like fewer and fewer people want that option.
I don't get it.
We shouldn't go grab a QB just to say that we grabbed a QB. The guys should have a chance at being a great QB, or we should pass. I don't see greatness in either Tannehill or Flynn ...... so we should pass on both. We can grab Richardson, and give McCoy a great running game to work with. People also said that McCoy couldn't operate last year because he had no running game. Well, here is a chance to fix that for a long time to come.
The very worst thing we should do is take a project QB with the 4th overall pick. He's not going to start this year, and probably not next year either .... and he's not going to help our current QB. Draft Richardson, give McCoy the help people have been crying out for, and see what he can do. We can take a WR either with our 2nd pick, or our 2nd round pick, and still get great value.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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if they pass on Kalil.. no way in heck we do... and I'd be 100% happy w/ it too.
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I have no problem taking tannehill at 4 because of the rest of the class. Love Trent Richardson, but I refuse to consider a top 10 pick on a RB that just had knee surgery. I really like Claiborne but I don't know if you need two top 10 corners.
Not a big fan of Blackmon. Don't need a DT. I don't want a top 10 RT unless he is a monster in both run and pass blocking. #1 DE vs #6 DE isn't that big of a difference.
Tannehill's tremendous upside makes him well worth a top 5 pick, especially in this draft. If we don't take him at 4, I hope we trade down and trade down some more. Load up for next year.
Holmgren, doesn't want to play a rookie QB anyway so spend a year for Colt to raise his stock or you bring in a McNabb for a year while the rookie gets more coaching than he ever imagined. I would play him from day 1 but that wont happen with this regime.
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Eh, I guess we just disagree over the role of a RT today. I just don't see why there has to be a uniform standard of, RT has to be squattier and a mauler. Especially with the way teams pass the ball nowadays. I think we're going to see a lot less running with this team as soon as our offense is able to play. Remember the first couple games of the year, we threw the ball a ton. Now if we get someone like Trent Richardson, I expect to run the ball more, and in the cold we'll probably run it more too. But still, I think the Patriots/Eagles style of offense (throw the ball non-stop) is more like what will be happening. And that mauler RT won't be as key.
I just think you're putting an old stereotype into a RT position that has new requirements, at least for us.
I do get that the right side gets the majority of handoffs, as most QBs are right handed and that's why the right side of the line runs the ball that way (and why it seems the TE lines up on the right side), but we'll be throwing the ball a lot and a great pass blocking RT would definitely be a premium.
That being said, I do think Cordy Glenn or another top tackle at 22 makes much more sense (so we can get a skill player at 4). I just don't see Kalil and Thomas here on the same team in 4/5 years. We're talking like 30 million probably going into the two tackle positions. Makes no sense
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Justin Blackmon would be my choice, but I will not expect it.
I would be happy with a FA signing at WR in his place however, but I'm not so high on any other WR's in this Draft.
Claiborne would be my 2nd choice, but I think we can find a starting caliber Corner later in the Draft too.
My third choice would be to trade down.
NACIH do I want Richardson at 4. We can get him later with a trade down scenario.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 03/12/12 08:03 PM.
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This regime likes big old bubble butt maulers. From Holmgren, to Heckert to Shurmur they like Big Butts lol
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Man, I would love to sign Meachem and draft Richardson. Offense instantly is way, way better than last year, especially with Little in his second season (I think he's going to explode this year).
Ideal case, we pick up a pick, fall back, and get Richardson a little bit later. But I'm not opposed to taking Richardson at 4 either. And I would love to resign Hillis. Richardson, Hillis, Jackson. That would be a really, really good backfield. We would have some nice young pieces on both sides of the ball.
I would like to pick up a QB as well at a minimum to compete with McCoy ... Flynn, Tannehill, Weeden ... no idea who ... but I think some competition would be good for him. Let the best man win.
Three simple moves ... be the highest bidder for Meachem ... gives us a deep threat with some potential along side Little ... draft Richardson ... resign Hillis ... seems pretty simple to me ... unless Meachem doesn't want to come to Cleveland ... but money has a funny way of changing peoples minds.
This would instantly make us a way better team. Get it done Heckert!
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Didn't Richardson just have ACL surgery?
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Didn't Richardson just have ACL surgery?
No, definitely not ACL. Some minor knee surgery. Very minor
OR at least it wasn't torn ACL, minor stuff as I said
Last edited by PeteyDangerous; 03/12/12 08:10 PM.
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I don't see us as a destination of choice for any free agent WR ...... simply because we have a heavily unsettled QB position.
People can say that it was all the receivers' fault last year, but receivers are going to check out a team before even coming to visit, and McCoy at QB, with the year he had, is not going to be a huge inducement for anyone.
I'll never say never, but i would be stunned beyond words if any of the top receivers wind up in Cleveland. The only way I see that is if we tell them that we are looking at QBs in the draft. What McCoy showed last year is not going to have any free agent receiver anxious to sign here. The QB matters to a receiver far more than a receiver matters to a QB.
I doubt that we're going to try and sign a Flynn in free agency. I cannot imagine that the front office looked at his tape and saw a lot of NFL throws. I also cannot imagine that they want to throw a ton of money at a guy they really have no way of evaluating. He didn't play much in college, and he hardly played at all in the NFL. In 8 years he threw less than 600 passes. That's not much to go on.
I think that all we can do is try to get through this year and hope that there is a QB we like in next year's draft who will be a mid 1st round type guy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Didn't Richardson just have ACL surgery?
No, definitely not ACL. Some minor knee surgery. Very minor
OR at least it wasn't torn ACL, minor stuff as I said
It was Arthroscopic. Had it done to my elbow for some chips, cartilage and bone spurs. Basically cleaning it out.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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I think for your own health you should take a break from the Browns and this board. I'm not saying quit the Browns or stop being a fan ... but maybe just take a break.
You are such a ray of sunshine for all those here, I can only imagine what it's like when you are not on here. It's probably not good for your stress level.
Maybe take a vacation. Or just get in the car and drive. No computers! Come back in a couple of months when you realize that while the Browns are a severe passion for most of us (and I get the emotional attachment, I really do) a 48 year old man should not be having the feelings you are having over your favorite football team. Sorry man, your fascination with RG3 and how it's now the end of the world because the Browns didn't get him has now reached the bizarre level. It's worse than your fixation with Mangini.
Step away, breathe, drive somewhere, fly to a place that has a beach ... do anything but come to this board and focus on the Browns. It really might help you cope a bit.
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We are in a prime location to trade out.
My first option would be to call Dallas to see if they're interested in drafting Claiborne, then I'd switch the phone over to Tampa Bay. How much would they give to move up? We could say that Dallas wants to move up and is offering a lot more than Tampa Bay but that we don't want to move down that far but we'll take it if Tampa Bay won't give us an acceptable offer.
Then, if we work a deal with Tampa Bay and move down the one spot, we could look to get another pick or two. I'd be looking to get their 2nd rounder this year and 2nd rounder next year. Then we could either take Blackmon at #5 or trade again.
Would Miami look to add Justin Blackmon to Brandon Marshall? Move back again and pick up more picks. A move up from the #8 spot to the #5 spot should be able to get a #2 this year and another pick (either a 3rd this year or 2nd next year).
I'd look to get DeCastro there at #8. We could trade back again, but not too far - maybe Carolina at #10. I think Arizona would definitely try and get DeCastro if we moved back and getting him there. I think moving back from #8 to #10 should be able to get us another 3rd & 4th round picks this year, but it's possible that Carolina would nab DeCastro themselves.
It could be an interesting draft.
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Why? Because I'm a realist? Outside of awful pain in my back, I'm perfectly healthy.
Now, let's play a game.
OK .... you're a top WR. You are free to go anywhere you want, to any team that wants you.
What kind of team do you look for? What do you look for as far as coaching, staff, philosophy, personnel, etc.?
Are we that kind of team? (and please answer honestly)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,338 |
Like TO to Buffalo, Rice to Seattle? I think we will try hard for Colston and get him.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,744 Likes: 396
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 16,744 Likes: 396 |
Quote:
Why? Because I'm a realist? Outside of awful pain in my back, I'm perfectly healthy.
Now, let's play a game.
OK .... you're a top WR. You are free to go anywhere you want, to any team that wants you.
What kind of team do you look for? What do you look for as far as coaching, staff, philosophy, personnel, etc.?
Are we that kind of team? (and please answer honestly)
First off, you're not a realist. You believe RG3 is going to be a Super Bowl QB because you watched a few games and read some scouting reports. Your disappointment in not getting him is disproportionate with the fact that he is still an unproven commodity. But let's get back to your game ...
Coaching? Check ... I think we've assembled one of the best coaching staffs in the league.
Staff? Check ... see "Coaching".
Philosophy? Not sure where you are going with this one, but are you saying WRs don't want to play in a WCO?
Personnel? Of course we are light on the personnel side. We were 4-12. You sell potential FAs on being a part of the upswing.
QB? Yes, we are deficient here. But that's why you make a "pitch" to the guy. You explain how we are and will address the position. Or you sell your belief in Colt and why. Again, you sell the guy on being a part of something. Then you show him the money. 
I think that sales pitch might be particularly appealing to someone like Meachem who already has a ring. If we offer him the most money, he will be an undisputed #1 on an up and coming team (and he's already got his championship) getting paid the most money he could make.
I'm not saying it will work, and I'm not saying guys won't consider who's throwing them the ball and how that might be a deal breaker. But don't act like good players have never gone to bad teams in FA. And Meachem isn't even a top tier guy. I think he would do wonders for us, but we're not talking V.Jax or Bowe here.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212 |
buyer beware with Colston.... i don't think he does well outside of NO.
I would jump for joy with Garcon.... he put up pretty good numbers with horrid QB play. We need a veteran WR badly, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
I hope Manning makes his decision quickly. It really will have a huge factor in how things play out. If he goes to the dolphins, Flynn will be an option for Seattle or the browns. And I'm not sure if Seattle really upgrades with Flynn, they might be better to just roll with t-jack. If Manning goes to Arizona, I think Kolb here is a given. I think Flynn is stuck in limbo until Manning makes up his mind- that might give the browns a chance to strike fast with Flynn if we want him.
I really don't see Heckert drafting Tannehill at #4. He is by-the-book best player available. No way is Tannehill at #4 the best available. I don't think the browns take him unless they can trade down a bit and pick up another second rounder to "offset" a reach. No, i just can't see Heckert making a terrible reach even with the QB premium.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,562 Likes: 814
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,562 Likes: 814 |
I like Garcon....I toss a bundle at him.
The Browns won't. Heck is happy with our stable of receivers.
The guy is a goof. Pull up a vid of him talking if you need proof.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Pick #4
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