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I would imagine any WR is looking at a few factors when picking a team in FA...
1. Money - chance to sign the most secure, lucrative deal
2. Winning - chance to get to the playoffs and contend for championships
3. Stats - chance to get the ball and put up good personal numbers and be recognized.
4. Location - chance to play in a desired city
Its likely that each WR might have these 4 things ranked in a different order based on where they are in their career, what kind of success they have had, etc.. but it's safe to say that the ONLY area where the Browns can rank high right now is with #1... we could pay them more. But we can't guarantee #2 and #3.. and well #4 is actually an obstacle that Cleveland has to overcome and it will not be overcome until they can fix #2 and #3...
yebat' Putin
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I want absolutely no part of Richardson - or any RB - at #4.
Claiborne, Blackmon or Trade Down are the only acceptable options, IMO.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
I want absolutely no part of Richardson - or any RB - at #4.
Claiborne, Blackmon or Trade Down are the only acceptable options, IMO.
Finally some sanity. Tannehil or Richardson at #4 is insane,
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I want absolutely no part of Richardson - or any RB - at #4.
Claiborne, Blackmon or Trade Down are the only acceptable options, IMO.
Im on board with this 100%
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I will simply put this with comments about how Crennel was a poor coach because he didn't sound good in interviews..... in the garbage.
Fair enough....I just get frustrated.
Overall I like the guy fine. I just think we flubbed this up and and we are stuck with some alternate plan at best. The A1 plan was shown, and it didn't happen.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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1st String
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I didn't say I wanted Richardson (I thought I made it clear that my choice would be Blackmon), however, this is how I see them going based on what happens in different scenarios (I also think we take Khalil in about 2 seconds if the Vikes pass on him).
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No sweat, I understand frustrated... but, sometimes no matter how you try, it just isn't within your power to do something.
It's all a matter of personal feeling, but for my $0.02, given the high price being charged to take a chance on a guy - I'm definitely not considering us as having dropped the ball on this.
Of course, I never wanted us to trade up, anyway, but that just means that I'm thankful that it didn't work out for us (which, I think, works out for us, hehe).
@brownorangedragon - I was just commenting that I want nothing to do with Richardson. The way I see it, Adrian Peterson is pretty much the best RB to come out in a long, long, long time.. and right now, I wouldn't even take HIM at #4. The difference in impact just isn't there, IMO. e.g. we have RB's that are pretty decent, so "upgrading" to Richardson isn't that big of a deal. However, our WR's aren't so great, so Blackmon is a HUGE upgrade, and Claiborne teamed up with Haden gives us a ridiculous secondary... the impact is just far greater, IMO. Beyond those two, I think the biggest impact for our team is a trade down and perhaps look at upgrading LB or DE... and get another pick in the process that nets us yet another player.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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If we go Tannehil with the 4th pick I think I'm going to be sick. When you draft 4th overall you HAVE to go with the best player available. That may leave us with a decision between Blackmon, Claibourne or Richardson.
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Quote:
Quote:
I want absolutely no part of Richardson - or any RB - at #4.
Claiborne, Blackmon or Trade Down are the only acceptable options, IMO.
Finally some sanity. Tannehil or Richardson at #4 is insane,
I agree. Except I'm going trade down first, Claiborne, then Blackmon.
I'll walk straight out of the house and go to anger management if we draft Tannehill at #4.
Richardson I think is a mistake, but I wouldn't flip out . . .
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Quote:
Quote:
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I want absolutely no part of Richardson - or any RB - at #4.
Claiborne, Blackmon or Trade Down are the only acceptable options, IMO.
Finally some sanity. Tannehil or Richardson at #4 is insane,
I agree. Except I'm going trade down first, Claiborne, then Blackmon.
I'll walk straight out of the house and go to anger management if we draft Tannehill at #4.
Richardson I think is a mistake, but I wouldn't flip out . . .
Honestly, I don't think there is much chance we'll draft Tannehill at 4.. I get the feeling that trading down will be the priority (which seems to be what you would prefer also)
We are gonna come away with our two firsts this year, (22 and whatever we get in trade) maybe an extra 4th this year and something next year like a 1st or 2nd for someone to move up to 4.
If Heckerts run of finding guys like Haden, Ward, Taylor, Little and Sheard continue, we'll probably end up with 3 or 4 quality guys this year and the same next year.
I know it's frustrating,, but we very well could be getting there..
Ahh, there goes that glass half full talk again.... 
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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jc
The more I think about it...we will go Tannehill at 4...we almost have to if we don't go after and get Flynn
McCoy wold get his last chance until the bye, if he doesn't show significant improvement it's Tannehill time and if he does...well good for us and we have a valuable safety net behind him and there's always value in high picked QBs that sit behind a succeeding starter
#gmstrong
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The more I think about it...we will go Tannehill at 4...we almost have to if we don't go after and get Flynn
But why?! You don't just take a QB at 4 to take a QB! You are one of the last people I expected to say this. Please PLEASE if you have ANY video showing a good reason to take him this high share it here. The only video I can find on him online makes him look like a mid-rounder at best.
*edit* actually, now that I think about it, you did want us to take Gabbert at 6 last year going into the draft in the off-chance that he worked out, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Not that Tannehill is Gabbert, but there can be parallels drawn between them in strengths and weaknesses.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 03/13/12 11:04 AM.
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Id rather us get another mid draft project then a project at #4. Seriously...C'mon, he isnt worth a top10 pick.
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The more I think about it...we will go Tannehill at 4...we almost have to if we don't go after and get Flynn
But why?! You don't just take a QB at 4 to take a QB! You are one of the last people I expected to say this. Please PLEASE if you have ANY video showing a good reason to take him this high share it here. The only video I can find on him online makes him look like a mid-rounder at best.
and you don't have the videos of him looking his worst (Texas, OU, and OkieState in '11 in that order). no thank you. and JAX took a QB to take a QB last year. didn't work out so well for them.
I am hoping that we sign Flynn, and also use a mid-round pick on Foles or Coleman (guys that could have decently high ceilings that we can develop).
#4 pick is Blackmon, Claiborne, or trade-down for me. I think Kalil (if available) will be more valuable to other teams as a LT and will therefore get more back in a trade than his value to us as a RT.
#gmstrong
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If we go Tannehil with the 4th pick I think I'm going to be sick. When you draft 4th overall you HAVE to go with the best player available. That may leave us with a decision between Blackmon, Claibourne or Richardson.
Shoot man....I know you guys are right.
I'll come around in a day or two. I am past the point of being able to think rationally about the Browns 24/7. Sometimes my primal feelings surface and I just go on emotion.
Does anybody else ever feel like breaking something?? 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Quote:
Quote:
If we go Tannehil with the 4th pick I think I'm going to be sick. When you draft 4th overall you HAVE to go with the best player available. That may leave us with a decision between Blackmon, Claibourne or Richardson.
Shoot man....I know you guys are right.
I'll come around in a day or two. I am past the point of being able to think rationally about the Browns 24/7. Sometimes my primal feelings surface and I just go on emotion.
Does anybody else ever feel like breaking something??
From September to January, I call that feeling "every moment of every day."
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Does anybody else ever feel like breaking something??
my sons and I have "breaking days" where we take a bunch of stuff we are going to throw away and have fun breaking it to pieces.
cheaper than therapy and twice the fun 
#gmstrong
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That sounds pretty cool. I may try that.
It's been a while since I took my shotgun and just shot the crap out of water jugs, etc. I may go do that this afternoon.
Blow up a few cantelopes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Exactly...and if you told me this 3 or 4 years ago I would have argued as most on here as I was/still am the most prospect happy and "BPA all the way" poster around...but QB is THE most important position in this contemporary NFL...10 years ago a QB rating of 80 was considered good...now it's well below AVG
Yes, Tannehill at 4 would be a need over-draft, but 1 I would be willing to gamble on simply because QB is our most important need...we are the only NFL team that doesn't even have "hope" at that position...we have a well below AVG QB with next to no upside who isn't even above AVG at anything and an aging never has been as backup...I don't see any team's QB depth chart look this hopeless and there are at least another 5 teams who will scramble around for a QB this FA/draft
We simply can't punt this position year after year after year...there will NEVER be a perfect timing without a great amount of luck like the Colts had this year...look at teams like the Phins, Chiefs or Seahawks...they won't even get the chance to draft Tannehill, an upside project at the position...Seahawks are a perfect example of this mess...they have drafted a strong D and have a good running game...yet they are a 7-9 win team in the weakest Division in the league...guess why....we are headed in the Seahawks direction in terms of talent, so we probably (hopefully) won't draft in the top 5-10 so soon again....and if we don't we won't have a shot at next year's Top 3 QBs, the days where the Rodgers' and Roethli's fell to the mid 1st are clearly gone...and the cicle continues
at 1 point we have to roll the dice...and if Tannehill fails, we haven't lost any other picks, right?
Concerning his tape: He does a lot of things right but isn't consistent yet..he hasn't put it all together yet, which is problematic as anyone wants a "safer" prospect but it is what it is: a gamble on upside and brains....yes, he is "comparable" in rawness to Gabbert although completely different...Gabbert had even more upside and experience but Tannehill has playing in a pro-style WCO going for him and I think he has more "it" factor, call it willingness, work ethic, brains...whatever
If there wasn't RG and Luck in this draft...and if I didn't feel burned by Gabbert last draft, I'd probably be as big of a Tannehill pimp as Mourg
Best Case: Eli Manning
Worst Case: Sanchez
Like both these QBs...he needs time and there will be grwoing pains, but I think he's worth a shot...mid-term, it's the best we have at this point imho
#gmstrong
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I think there are a NUMBER of QBs people should be prepared to find out Heckert likes in the later rounds. QBs not named Tannehill or Weeden. All would be coming in to sit and learn, just like Tannehill & Weeden would.
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Like?
Underachivers like Cousins, Lindley? They are carbon copies of Chad Henne and certainly don't come close to having the "it" factor of Tannehill....there's a reason analysts came away more impressed with Tannehill's tape than those guys'
#gmstrong
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Like Heckert said, Untapped potential and a lot of upside.
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There was a poster, who was arguing vehemently against RG3, who said that there are 4 1st round QBs coming out next year. led by Barkley, who we could draft.
I think it was Barkley, Landry Jones, Tyler Wilson, and I can't remember who else.
Do you think that it would be worth potentially suffering through a year with Colt McCoy, adding more talent this year, and then maybe adding one of those guys next year? I know that it's hard to project a draft a year in advance, but still, that looks like it might be a better option. Would that be better than taking a guy who is not going to be NFL ready in a year?
Man, I look at Tannehill and he needs built as a QB. There's not a lot there. He has size, and he has a decent arm. He can move, and appears to have good feet, although his footwork goes to hell under pressure. He makes good decisions and throws within 5-10 yards, but deeper stuff is hit or miss. He hasn't seen much as a college QB. He hasn't even started 2 seasons. In short, there are a ton of reasons why he worries me to death, and I think that he is now the fall back ..... and settling for the fall back doesn't seem to work out very often.
I would rather take a guy like Richardson, who would be a huge help for Colt McCoy, add as much talent as I could in this draft, and grab a QB in the 1st round next year. Hopefully we'll be in a better position to do so at that point. I simply think that Tannehill is a big mistake for this team. He might be an OK choice for a team drafting around15, who has an effective but aging QB .... But not us. He's gonna get thrown in the fire way before he's ready if we take him, and he's gonna get burnt to a crisp.
Like with Flynn, I just can't see wasting a high draft pick, and/or a lot of money on a "B" option. I don't see how that helps us in the long run ...... unless we're counting on luck to carry the day, and the guy we choose to somehow be better than he probably is. That's a scary proposition given how crappy our luck has been.
We really could take Richardson at 4, Cordy at 22, and a WR in the 2nd, and then we would know absolutely for sure what we have in McCoy. I think that's what many, many people used to call for ....... but that chorus has quieted quite a bit. That would give us a viable, breakaway running threat, an excellent right tackle, and then grab a WR in the 2nd and let's see for sure what we have. If nothing else, we'll be ready to slide a new QB right in.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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There is no way we should go after guys like that unless it is as an UDFA or the Waiver Wire.
Worst case scenario at QB, we have our backup of the future already on the team... what the heck would we ever gain by drafting more low-round guys to fill the spot that an UDFA could fill?
I know that H&H have said that they could take a QB in every draft, but honestly I view that as a complete and total waste. There is no way we should do it this year.
We either invest big, or we roll with what we have.... and on the invest big front, that does NOT include reaching for a player at 4.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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~Lyuokdea
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Thanks, I'll try to take a look after work (blocked here). So far I've seen v. Northwestern, v. Arkansas, and highlights v. Baylor. I didn't watch the v. LSU from the prior b/c I didn't think it would be fair.
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As I said, that would just punt/delay the "inevitable" decision into next season...and there's no way you can predict an upcoming draft 12 months from it happening...hell, exactly 1 year ago everyone was happy we finally had the ammunition to trade up for Luck...How did that "plan" work out?  we couldn't even come up with enough picks to get the 2nd best QB... Chances are that we'll pick outside the top 5, maybe 10 next season...heck, this year's 4th overall was highest in a loong time...and we're in the top 10 almost every draft...so, why could we confidently say we'd even get the 3rd best QB of next year's class? Btw, if Landry Jones would have declared for this draft he would have been picked AFTER Tannehill...he looked like total crap last season I share your concern for Tannehill getting thrown in too early but I agree with Mourg in thinking that he has the mental strength to "tough it out" and btw...RB at 4, underachieving and overweight RT with 3rd round tape at #22 and then WR in the 2nd looks like a Mangini draft, as in...play it "safe", not trying to make any mistakes...we have a saying over here: "The contrary to Good is well-meant"...and that would fit to such a draft...Mack-Robo-Massa all over again, showing no understanding of value RB market is a HUGE buyers market...there are good RBs in FA and all over the draft...I'd consider drafting Richardson at 4 a bigger waste in value than Tannehill We can draft above AVG to good level players every draft like Mack, Dqwell, Haden, Ward, Sheard etc...so what? We're still picking in the top 5...every idiot can pick a "safe", good interior OL, LB or DB in the 1st round....you won't pull away from your competitors drafting like this I really can't believe that there are posters that want to punt this decision another year and "draft another mid round QB"...if we would package all those late 1st to 3rd round picks we've wasted on QBs we'd would have half the price to get RG...and more importantly: we wouldn't have wasted year's on middling QB talent at the most important position...seriously, is there another Team in the NFL that does not have a 1st or 2nd round QB on their roster?  We laugh at "always next year" at has become a sad running gag among Browns diehards, but this is egtting replaced by "there's always next draft" when it comes to the inevitable decision to gamble on a QB early
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
If we go Tannehil with the 4th pick I think I'm going to be sick. When you draft 4th overall you HAVE to go with the best player available. That may leave us with a decision between Blackmon, Claibourne or Richardson.
Shoot man....I know you guys are right.
I'll come around in a day or two. I am past the point of being able to think rationally about the Browns 24/7. Sometimes my primal feelings surface and I just go on emotion.
Does anybody else ever feel like breaking something??
Yes, I'm on my fifth laptop in 3 years....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Like?
Underachivers like Cousins, Lindley? They are carbon copies of Chad Henne and certainly don't come close to having the "it" factor of Tannehill....there's a reason analysts came away more impressed with Tannehill's tape than those guys'
Not my job to find him.
I'm talking about Heckert & Holmgren. I think we should be prepared to see them pick a guy late that isn't Tannehill or Weeden. That's all . . .
I know I don't have to list past successful QBs that GMs chose in the later rounds. . .
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OK, LSU:
He does a nice job on some of the really short throws. He did have a couple of nice slants. There were back to back nice throws to the left about halfway through, and the fade for the TD was a really nice play.
he also had numerous throws that should have been easy pitch and catch type throws that appeared to be harder catches for his receivers than they needed to be.
He really struggles under pressure. Badly. I think that fade TD was one of only a very few completed passes while he was pressured.
He does like to run, and can do so effectively.
Arkansas:
Starts with 2 swing passes, then a nice throw down the right side. Then he gets picked going deep down the left. It was not catchable for his receiver, but he should have tried to break it up.
Next a swing pass, then a 4 yarder on 3rd and 11.
Tons of swing/flat passes.
The announcer says that scouts are telling him that Tannehill is a potential 2nd/3rd round pick. (4th game of the season)
He had a beautiful pass up and over the defense down the left side.
I am seeing several passes on 3rd and ..... that are just short of .....
Overall a decent game. Couple of really nice throws. Solid power behind the flat, screen, and slant passes. Still gets blown up by pressure.
That's all I have time for right now. Solid arm .... though he does have some passes start to quack just a little. Decent anticipation on some throws. He has some promise, but he needs a lot of work. He does run really well, and shows decent accuracy on the run.
I still don't see enough to take him at 4.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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seriously, is there another Team in the NFL that does not have a 1st or 2nd round QB on their roster?
Off the top of my head - The Patriots with a 5th, 3rd and UDFA.
But they are a terrible team and I would hate to follow their model of failure year after year. We need to do the opposite and reach for Tan.
Next, we can review the 1st and 2nd round QBs the Browns have had since the return to see the correct road to success. It obviously is draft QBs early and often while ignoring the rest of the team.
Last edited by Divot; 03/13/12 01:06 PM.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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I don't see Tannehill as being ready for prime time next year. (his rookie year) he does know some of the language, so that would help, but I don't see him as finished enough to step in quickly.
I share your concern on "next year", but I think that it would be a far better idea to build the team than to over reach on a QB.
I don't know a whole lot about Cordy Glenn, but everything I have read says that he is a huge value at the 22 range. He has tremendous size, and would seem to be a great RT candidate.
From what I have read, he might not even be there at 22. He might go much higher. I have read comments from scouts that he has an NFL body .... and everything I have read says that he has remarkable athleticism for his size.
You obviously disagree with that. Can I as what you've seen that would make you disagree with almost every report I have read on him? (and I haven't seen much of him, if at all)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Also, the Chiefs with Cassel/Orton/Stanzi, and the Bills with Fitzpatrick/Thigpen/Smith
~Lyuokdea
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Quote:
I just think we flubbed this up
We were told to make an offer. We offered three first round picks. A different team offered three first round picks and a second round pick. We were never given a chance to make another bid.
How is that "flubbing" it?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,118 Likes: 134
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,118 Likes: 134 |
Quote:
Quote:
I just think we flubbed this up
We were told to make an offer. We offered three first round picks. A different team offered three first round picks and a second round pick. We were never given a chance to make another bid.
How is that "flubbing" it?
I'm not at all certain that's how it really went down,, But I'm really glad we didn't go any higher,..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
No one is certain that's the way it went down. But that's how almost every media source described the process.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,821 Likes: 460
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26,821 Likes: 460 |
I have a very good feeling that we offered both of our 1st rounders this year, and thats it. The rams then went to Washington and said we offered 3 1st round picks, at which point the Redskins jumped to 3 1st's and a 2nd and the Rams damn near killed themselfs getting to the phone to accept.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,590 |
I agree with this statement. You don't take a guy JUST because you need him. Especially when it's the QB.
Yes we need to fix it, but you don't do a half-... er ... behinded .... job on something as important as the QB position.
We went through last year with a team led by a QB that didn't have an offseason - was unprepared - without talent - young - inexperienced and was essentially forced into the decision of playing too early. There is also the argument that by sticking with Colt it forced us to stay out of the QB game last year as we were still figuring him out.
And now some people want to do that with Tannehill as a reaction to missing out on Griffin?
Taking a QB is a necessity because you need a franchise QB. But don't take one just to take one especially if he is a project.
And I LIKE Tannehill but I would be sick to my stomach if we draft him and then force him in by the midpoint of the season ... only to declare the next 2 years or so with him at the helm instead of solving the problem the right way.
Even if Colt stinks and we are essentially out of play for a big name QB at the top of the draft (if we win another 5 to 6 games) ... we will have enough talent that a veteran stopgap could put us over the helm. I would rather have us do that then sacrafice talent for short term toys that happen to be at a position of need. That's the Phil Savage model ...
"Believe deep down in your heart that you're destined to do great things."
@pstu24
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
i'm a terrible shot and live in the city, so I can't use shotguns (though seeing cantelopes and water jugs explode sounds like fun).
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6 |
I would let him compete and play but Holmgren will probably let his rookie sit for a year and endure Quarterbacking 101 as he intended to do with Colt.
I wouldn't be surprised to see McNabb brought in to compete with Colt and Wallace gets shipped out.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Pick #4
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