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I share your concern on "next year", but I think that it would be a far better idea to build the team than to over reach on a QB.
At this point, I agree. If we have more pieces in place next year, we might be more willing/able to part with a higher package to move up. Going for a QB just to get a QB is much worse than making sure it's the right QB.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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Who would he learn that from in Cleveland?
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I have a very good feeling that we offered both of our 1st rounders this year, and thats it. The rams then went to Washington and said we offered 3 1st round picks, at which point the Redskins jumped to 3 1st's and a 2nd and the Rams damn near killed themselfs getting to the phone to accept.
I'd bet that's probably right.. I just don't think Heckert and holmgren are dumb enough to offer 3 firsts let alone 3 firsts and a 2nd rounder.. They know we need help everywhere....Stripping the draft of it's meat for the next couple of years doesn't seem like the way to go about it. But we'll see how the Skins do with that...
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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None of that story made sense from the start. If we were to cheap to part with pick 22 this year, does anyone think we would offer up 2 more future firsts? lol
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None of that story made sense from the start. If we were to cheap to part with pick 22 this year, does anyone think we would offer up 2 more future firsts? lol
I know,, that's whats so puzzling about guys wanting to believe all the garbage that's been circulating. No matter how hard I look at it,, we had more to give up by virture of where our picks were than any other team,,(except the Vikings and they were never rumored to be in the mix) that tells me that if we really wanted RG3,, if we REALLY felt he was "THE ONE" we had the best ammunition to go up and get him.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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I really can't believe that there are posters that want to punt this decision another year and "draft another mid round QB"...if we would package all those late 1st to 3rd round picks we've wasted on QBs we'd would have half the price to get RG...and more importantly: we wouldn't have wasted year's on middling QB talent at the most important position...seriously, is there another Team in the NFL that does not have a 1st or 2nd round QB on their roster? 
The talent/skill gap between Luck and RGII when compared to Tannehill is huge. This is not one of those "coin flip" MIT decisions.
Drafting a QB high does not make him worth drafting high.
Did drafting Brady Quinn in the first round make him a good QB? He had deep accuracy problems similar to Tannehill. He was described as having a strong arm (I still remember the minicamp reports of Browns laughing at him for firing bullets into the wall.)
It's not "punting a decision," it's a decision. Is Tannehill the guy I want to hitch my team up to for a minimum of the next three years? No. Is he where I want to spend a premium resource? No. Now, I'll watch the videos that Ly was nice enough to hunt down and post to see if that will ease my resistance, but that's not being non-committal. Unless what he has linked is significantly different that what I have seen from him, then I am not interested in not only wasting the number 4 pick, but also the next three years of this team.
I wanted us to get Luck or RGIII in this draft. RGIII turned out to be way more expensive than I expected, and way more than I'd want us to pay. It doesn't mean I'm just going to take the next guy at the same pick I'd have taken Griffin because we still need an upgrade at QB.
Last edited by CleveSteve; 03/13/12 02:15 PM.
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It doesn't mean I'm just going to take the next guy at the same pick I'd have taken Griffin because we still need an upgrade at QB.
Heck no! That is the very definition of Reaching.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quinn, didnt have a whole lot of growth left in him. There wasn't a lot of specifics where one could say, he tightens this up he is gonna be good. He had pretty good mechanics and good footwork. His accuracy was not very good and the more muscles he added the worse it got.
Andrew Luck doesn't have a whole lot of growth left in his game either, other than the bad habbit of throwing off the back foot.
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There were flags up about Quinn leading up to the draft. I think he got by on his height/weight and the fact that he spent a few seasons under Charlie Weis who had just got done making Tom Brady the best QB in the league and a 3 time champ.
We heard the accuracy stuff from some of the experts. I think the arm strength was exaggerated as we found that out after a few games of watching him. Real easy to sit back there and chuck when you are playing Navy and Michigan and not the Steelers and Ravens.
I was fooled. I can admit it. I thought he'd be a very good QB. He couldn't even beat out Derek Anderson for a job.
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The only way I stay at #4 is for Claiborne, otherwise I'm trying to trade back 2-7 spots and grab an extra 1st or second rounder or two. I wouldn't take Tannehill higher than #22. Wouldn't mind Weeden in the 2nd or 3rd. The guy maybe 28 but if not for that he'd be a high pick for sure.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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A trade back with Seattle would be nice...
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Thank you! There's NO reason to draft Tannehill IMO. Is he really an upgrade THIS YEAR over Colt? Nope. He's a 2 year project and I still don't think you have a bonified starter when all's said and done. Everything I see when I see vids of him is thoroughly underwhelming, permanent back-up written all over him. If he's not an improvement THIS YEAR, then yes, punt the decision down the road. Start plugging all those myriad holes and upgrading across the board. Try to finagle some more picks for next year but for the sake of CONTINUITY (novel concept) you don't reach for a guy that never will be thereby watering down your draft and mucking up the locker room for the next year. We've got a quality backup in Wallace already. A similar number of red flags that were there for Quinn are there for Tannehill. The quality drop off from Luck and RG3 to Tannehill/Weeden/etc is laughably huge. You early picks HAVE to count. That's a 25/75 pick at best IMO. 30/70 and below QB picks are late 1st round thru high 3rd round IMO. Humongous fail at #4.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
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The talent/skill gap between Luck and RGII when compared to Tannehill is huge. This is not one of those "coin flip" MIT decisions
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show me tape of him looking like a first rounder
Ask and ye shall receive. Watch the throw at 6:38 and let the tape roll from there.
http://www.youtube.com/v/HT57THwIZwg
That throw will remind you of someone...Tom Brady.
That's an NFL throw...beautiful footwork, beautiful balance, perfect throwing motion and release to a WR outside the numbers on a line. Simply effortless.
If anyone doubts why I like this guy so much...and Mourg and others just watch this throw over and over and over. That's the potential to go with brains, brawn, durability and college WR athleticism. There it is for all to see.
If Tannehill can make that type of throw with consistency he's going to be a top level NFL QB.
You wanted the proof. There it is.
The rest is just fun with RG3 and Tannehill. Nice scramble at 7:48 too.
btw....A&M beat Baylor 55-28 behind 415 yards and 6 TDs from Tannehill.
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If Tannehill can make that type of throw with consistency he's going to be a top level NFL QB.
I wouldn't bet a number 4 pick on "if".
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Yeah, that play is cancelled out by the stupid decision and awful throw at 0:50 of the same video. What else you got? 
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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 Yeah that was blooper reel. But I'll take 415 yards and 6 TDs any day... Oh do I pine for the days of Bernie Kosar where that kind of line was even possible.
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Keep in mind that Baylor's defense was little more than Pop Warner caliber as well. They stopped the pass by having the clock run out. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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who he was playing really means nothing to me honestly.
that one throw tells me that if he has the determination to be a great nfl QB then he will be.
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I want absolutely no part of Richardson - or any RB - at #4.
Claiborne, Blackmon or Trade Down are the only acceptable options, IMO.
Finally some sanity. Tannehil or Richardson at #4 is insane,
I agree and I actually like both, but just not at pick #4.
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I just think we flubbed this up
We were told to make an offer. We offered three first round picks. A different team offered three first round picks and a second round pick. We were never given a chance to make another bid.
How is that "flubbing" it?
I have explained that man. I am not going to do so again. We flubbed the offer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I found my reply, in the cuts thread from this morning....I'll copy and paste just for you.
I had some questions about the guy, but for me it was the bungled attempt at RGIII.
I know some say we simply lost a silent auction, I say bull.
All one has to do is think about it a moment.
All reports indicate we were going to send two first rounds plus swap picks. That is a clear indication RGIII was the guy we wanted and we went with what we thought was all in...in our minds we had our guy.
But we didn't think this through...we sat back with a smile on our face when what we needed to do was ask some questions.
Question: Why did we offer up 2-3 first rounders?(depends on how you want to add up the picks)
Answer: Because we were sure that is what the Skins were going to offer.
Question: Which team had the better offer on the table??
Answer: The Browns. We had a better pick at #4 and had another pick at #22, which is better than a future pick. Instant gratification for the Rams.
Question: How could the Skins make their offer better than ours?
Answer: Toss in another pick. It doesn't take a genius to figure out it was going to be a 2nd rounder.
So, Heck got lazy and didn't take this far enough. I'd bet we could have tossed in a 3rd rounder next year and we would have been in the drivers seat since nothing the Skins could offer this year could beat our hand.
Basically, Heckert allowed a 3rd round pick to kill the deal for the player the Browns really wanted.
That's why I am down on the goof right now.
This isn't me professing my love for RGIII....it's evident the Browns were professing their love for the guy by offering what we did.
So now we get to wait and watch. Either way it is going to suck. RGIII tears it up for the next decade and we are left wondering how things could of, should of been.
RGIII busts out....we can laugh at the Skins, but are still left with the uncomfortable feeling Heck had the guy targeted as our guy. We may have gotten lucky, but that doesn't change how all of this went down.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Peen,
I get what you're saying. but I think had we tossed in another pick, then the Skins would have added yet another as well. If Snyder really wants someone, he will not be outbid. He would have kept going until we stopped. JMO
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Peen,
I get what you're saying. but I think had we tossed in another pick, then the Skins would have added yet another as well. If Snyder really wants someone, he will not be outbid. He would have kept going until we stopped. JMO
No, this was at the point the Rams said give your best offer, we end it there.
The nimrods in Berea couldn't figure out our 3 first rounders were better than the Skins, so the Skins had to add a little something to push it over the top.
While Heck was happy dancing around his office the Rams were calling the Skins to tell them they just got the 2nd pick.
The guy is a idiot. He deserves to get fired for that debacle.
Face it, he screwed up. Once you are to the point of giving up 2 first rounders this year and one next year, nobody can tell me another 2nd or 3rd round pick is what made it too costly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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This is just laughable.
So now because he wasn't willing to throw the better portion of two drafts away for a huge risk he should be fired immediately?
Everybody is laughing at Washington for their trade. Apparently you'd rather they were laughing at us?
It couldn't POSSIBLY be that we were willing to give up both 1st round picks this year (way more than I would have offered) and that was it. Anything beyond that was just too much for us to give up for RG3. If someone else was willing to out-bid us, so be it. They did. Good for them.
We didn't "flub" anything IMO.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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Peen,
I get what you're saying. but I think had we tossed in another pick, then the Skins would have added yet another as well. If Snyder really wants someone, he will not be outbid. He would have kept going until we stopped. JMO
No, this was at the point the Rams said give your best offer, we end it there.
The nimrods in Berea couldn't figure out our 3 first rounders were better than the Skins, so the Skins had to add a little something to push it over the top.
While Heck was happy dancing around his office the Rams were calling the Skins to tell them they just got the 2nd pick.
The guy is a idiot. He deserves to get fired for that debacle.
Face it, he screwed up. Once you are to the point of giving up 2 first rounders this year and one next year, nobody can tell me another 2nd or 3rd round pick is what made it to costly.
I don't know that it went down the way that you think it did. If I had a guess, I'd say Heck probably had a chance to bow out of the race. But either way, I'm elated we didn't make the move, and, yeah, I think that extra second round pick is the straw the breaks the camel's back.
We make that move and we're looking at not being able to add any pieces until the third round, and the second round next year.
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No, this was at the point the Rams said give your best offer, we end it there.
well damn peen.. what is it you wanted them to give up to get his kid? for crying outloud,,did you want them to give up more than three 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick?
Weren't you the guy that swore up and down and wanted to bet me a steak dinner that NO WAY would it take 3 firsts to get him?
yet,, that's what it took AND MORE, as I predicted.
You gotta stop your freakin whining already.., it's over.. done.. move on. if we made an offer, I'm pretty sure it was the best we were WILLING to make.
That DOES NOT mean we blew it,, it means we had a price in mind and the sale price exceeded what we were willing to pay..
END OF STORY..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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jc
Peen has a point...IF it was indeed a silent auction...me thinks this was PR talk from the Rams and Fisher guaranteed his pal Shanahan to be able to top the Browns offer, giving away our hand...he knew he would get a "Browns offer what they think the Skins offer" from us and THEN something extra from his buddy...I have a hard time believing it was a silent auction...he can say that to the press and he probably told us and he probably told his buddy to say the same...perfect lie and win-win for STL and WAS...I think our FO got exploited without being able to prove it
Sadly, Peen is also right about the bottom line outcome: we have egg on our face either way...I really hope RG stars in this league because if he busts I'll lose a lot of my faith in Heckert
#gmstrong
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j
Sadly, Peen is also right about the bottom line outcome: we have egg on our face either way...I really hope RG stars in this league because if he busts I'll lose a lot of my faith in Heckert
Can you explain that for me?
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This is just laughable.
So now because he wasn't willing to throw the better portion of two drafts away for a huge risk he should be fired immediately?
Everybody is laughing at Washington for their trade. Apparently you'd rather they were laughing at us?
It couldn't POSSIBLY be that we were willing to give up both 1st round picks this year (way more than I would have offered) and that was it. Anything beyond that was just too much for us to give up for RG3. If someone else was willing to out-bid us, so be it. They did. Good for them.
We didn't "flub" anything IMO.
I said he deserves to be fired....I didn't say he should.
I have grace and allowed people under me to make mistakes.
We'll see if he learned.
You guys can say what you want. We flubbed the offer.
We identified the player we wanted and didn't get it done because we weren't through.
That's the bottom line. Quite trying to make excuses and I'll quit hammering home the irrefutable point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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j
Sadly, Peen is also right about the bottom line outcome: we have egg on our face either way...I really hope RG stars in this league because if he busts I'll lose a lot of my faith in Heckert
Can you explain that for me?
I'll re-quote Peen for that, he said it best
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This isn't me professing my love for RGIII....it's evident the Browns were professing their love for the guy by offering what we did.
So now we get to wait and watch. Either way it is going to suck. RGIII tears it up for the next decade and we are left wondering how things could of, should of been.
RGIII busts out....we can laugh at the Skins, but are still left with the uncomfortable feeling Heck had the guy targeted as our guy. We may have gotten lucky, but that doesn't change how all of this went down.
#gmstrong
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Thanks for the clarification.
So, either way, the Browns get blamed. Got it.
Like I said - I've never seen such negativity on here.
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You forgot that if we hadn't pursued the trade at all, then that just shows that this FO is clueless by putting its support behind McCoy.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I don't understand how some can't comprehend that we just weren't willing to overspend for RG3.
It's akin to me "wanting" a corvette really badly. I find one that has a blue book value of $30k, but I "really" want it so I offer $40k (already more than it's worth). Then, somebody else comes in and offers $80k for the same car. Am I a fool who "flubbed" the deal if at that point I say...umm for $80k he can have it??
ZOMG I WANTED IT AND I DIDN'T GET IT I MUST BE SUCH A BAFOON!
That's exactly what happened here. We wanted RG3. We offered at least what we thought he was worth if not more than he was worth. Washington offered even more. We said "they can have him for that". End of story.
Again, I'm glad people are laughing at Washington for paying $80k for a $30k car today instead of laughing at us...no matter how YTown and Peen want to spin this.
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I fully comprehend that. The point is we were willing until the last $100 bill.
I don't know if you have ever played real poker before with some real stakes, but once you go 90% in, you might as well go all in because you are going to be all in every hand after that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I fully comprehend that. The point is we were willing until the last $100 bill.
I don't know if you have ever played real poker before with some real stakes, but once you go 90% in, you might as well go all in.
In poker though you have multiple rounds of betting, as reported, there was only one round so 90% or 100% is rather redundant.
#GMSTRONG
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Oh, there was more than one round....this went on a while.
It finally turned in to one hand.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not if you believe the report that each was given the opportunity to turn in their best bid and the Rams went with what they thought was the best.
Unless you have some inside info I've not heard of yet?
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Not if you believe the report that each was given the opportunity to turn in their best bid and the Rams went with what they thought was the best.
Unless you have some inside info I've not heard of yet?
Yes, the fact that Pat Shurmur looks like a rat which automatically makes him a rat.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Technically Peen is right...we were pot committed....we offered 3 1sts, have 90% of our stack in and then got timed out...that looks bad and it is, no ifs and buts...a future 3rd could have sealed the deal, maybe
...but Peen I really think this NEVER was a real silent auction...Shanahan used Fisher to get the last bid and Fisher was allowed to use both Heckert and Shanahan to get max return...that's more probable imho
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
Quote:
Not if you believe the report that each was given the opportunity to turn in their best bid and the Rams went with what they thought was the best.
Unless you have some inside info I've not heard of yet?
Yes, the fact that Pat Shurmur looks like a rat which automatically makes him a rat.
Oh... so this is about Shurmur. Here I thought it was about Heckert and his lack of toastmaster classes. Silly me... 
#GMSTRONG
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Pick #4
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