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Your comparing an nfl quarterback to a car?? Last time I checked a car loses value each year. A great nfl quarterback will make your organization millions upon millions each year. Just look what Manning and Brees have done for indy and new orleans. Those 2 teams might be in different cities if it weren't for those two players. Sure the skins paid a steep price, but if they're right, they will recoup those draft picks 10 fold over time.
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Wait, so are you saying a car can't play quarterback? That's a little discriminatory, isn't it?
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
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Not if you believe the report that each was given the opportunity to turn in their best bid and the Rams went with what they thought was the best.
Unless you have some inside info I've not heard of yet?
Yes, the fact that Pat Shurmur looks like a rat which automatically makes him a rat.
It does....maybe it gets me kicked off here....good for you....you and Tulsa can kiss my butt....I don't care what you think....mock me all you want.
I think I have it right. It's not my problem you two choose to ignore the reality of the situation.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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All Pro
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I fully comprehend that. The point is we were willing until the last $100 bill.
I don't know if you have ever played real poker before with some real stakes, but once you go 90% in, you might as well go all in because you are going to be all in every hand after that.
I get your mindset but aren't you happy they didn't make that trade? You're a good dude and I respect your opinion but man I'm thrilled we didn't make this trade for a guy that may or may not be a good QB in this league. If he busts and we made that trade then I wouldn't hesitate to say that we would have set ourselves back about 5-6 years. Maybe it's just me but I was sooooo happy we didn't win the bid. Three 1sts and a 2nd to move up two spots? No thanks!! Much rather go with Colt again or sign Flynn. At least with Flynn it's Lerners cash not mine and we keep our picks.
I don't believe we could have ever outbid Snyder as someone else pointed out. I also think if the cards were even that the Rams would have traded it to the Redskins anyways due to the relationships. Another thing that we don't know is that maybe the Browns went over and above what they originally were willing to deal but still tried to keep up with the Redskins. Who knows?? Still glad it didn't happen though!!
![[Linked Image from netanimations.net]](http://netanimations.net/Moving-picture-dog-with-a-bone-animated-gif.gif)
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No, I am not happy.
I do trust Heck as a evaluator. I don't like how he showed we were all in, then didn't go all in.
Makes no sense.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I would of offered the Rams the #4, #22, a 2012 3rd and the 2013 1st Then when they accepted that... I would of traded it to Washington for the #6, 2012 2nd, 2013 1st, 2014 1st 
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It does....maybe it gets me kicked off here....good for you....you and Tulsa can kiss my butt....I don't care what you think....mock me all you want.
I think I have it right. It's not my problem you two choose to ignore the reality of the situation.
Whoa there bud, you're getting a might personal for a message board post and while it might be your reality it's not necessarily everyone's reality, and lets face it, reality is certainly subjective.
You might just want to accept the fact that people have differing opinions and the fact they don't necessarily agree with the "woe is me" mentality and choose a more positive outlook does not mean they are any less valid. They are simply different.
As a side note I don't believe I've mocked you in any way or fashion. If you're referring to my "Scotch" post, 79 fed me a straight line and I went with it. Sorry, if someone serves me a fastball when I'm looking for a fastball, I take my cut, you were not involved in that reply. I got a laugh out of it and that's all I was after.
Let's cut it back a notch or two, it's football after all, nothing that's going to change your tomorrow, even a little.
#GMSTRONG
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I would of offered the Rams the #4, #22, a 2012 3rd and the 2013 1st
Then when they accepted that...
I would of traded it to Washington for the #6, 2012 2nd, 2013 1st, 2014 1st
So, you'd have traded 3 firsts and a 3rd for 3 firsts and a 2nd. Or better put, to move down two spots you've have given up #22 and a 3rd this year for a 2nd this year, flip flop 1st rounders next year (which could be a lot) and a 2014 first rounder. With all due respect, I'm glad you're not our GM.
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So, you'd have traded 3 firsts and a 3rd for 3 firsts and a 2nd.
Yes.
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Or better put,
Aka: The way I just said it sounds too positive, so let me rephrase it with a negative connotation...
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to move down two spots you've have given up #22 and a 3rd this year for a 2nd this year, flip flop 1st rounders next year (which could be a lot) and a 2014 first rounder.
This trade is all based on (sarcasm... I mean...) if the Redskins fail, all their picks will be high than ours logically, The Rams will have our picks, We'll have the Redskins..
Trading the #22 for a future first is assume the future first will not be higher than that, and because I don't think theres alot of awesomness in this draft around 22...
And then you're trading our 2014 for the Redskins, assuming we'll be better than they will by then... If we're a playoff team by 2014 ( ) and Redskins have bottomed out (again) we'l still have high picks...
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With all due respect, I'm glad you're not our GM.
With all due respect I wish I didn't have to post in purple just so people knew I was being (obviously) sarcastic...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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gotcha, didn't catch the (obvious) sarcasm in there
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Great thread.
For every post about the #4 pick there are 30 posts about the sky falling and Heckert being a dolt and RG3 as Jesus Christ Superstar.
Lets try and stay on topic people.
Is this a football board or a pessimists anonymous gathering?
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Is this a football board or a pessimists anonymous gathering?
Well, it is the Cleveland Browns football board...
...Is this a trick question..?
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Is this a football board or a pessimists anonymous gathering?
Well, it is the Cleveland Browns football board...
...Is this a trick question..?
To go on topic, as if it'll last. If we can't, or don't trade out of the 4 spot and the picks go as expected, I would be happy with either Blackmon or Claiborne. No particular order, I rate them almost even, with WR being the bigger need.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Assuming we stay at 4 and Luck, RG3 and Kalil are the 3 off the board then my preference is
1) Justin Blackmon
2) Morris Claiborne
3) trade back
I don't see another scenario that makes ANY sense.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/GraffZ06/browns_factory_sig.jpg) Fear us, for we are the BROWNS, led by the mighty BM! Only in Cleveland.
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We identified the player we wanted and didn't get it done because we weren't through.
OR we identified a player we wanted and determined what he was worth, then backed off when the asking price was way, way to high. 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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The way that Snyder is overpaying for WRs and the way they're really flying off the FA board... it's looking like there's not going to be another option for WR.
It'd make the most sense in the world to Draft Blackmon. IMO If Flynn is signed, he signed because they told him that they're taking Blackmon at 4...
Though, IMO I want them to trade back and acquire another 1st next year.
You hear every year how the Draft is thin in areas or it's a 4-5 person draft. The truth of the matter is that those 1st round picks end up making some impact in some way... no matter if you see it or not.
This team will do better if they keep on acquiring talent. Another first round talent is better than one...
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Is it just the Redskins over paying receivers, or is the value of receivers just that much higher now between the pass first offense and the new CBA? It seems like the Bills paid their receiver pretty high as well.
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Quote:
jc
Peen has a point...IF it was indeed a silent auction...me thinks this was PR talk from the Rams and Fisher guaranteed his pal Shanahan to be able to top the Browns offer, giving away our hand...he knew he would get a "Browns offer what they think the Skins offer" from us and THEN something extra from his buddy...I have a hard time believing it was a silent auction...he can say that to the press and he probably told us and he probably told his buddy to say the same...perfect lie and win-win for STL and WAS...I think our FO got exploited without being able to prove it
Sadly, Peen is also right about the bottom line outcome: we have egg on our face either way...I really hope RG stars in this league because if he busts I'll lose a lot of my faith in Heckert
This may come as a shock to you, but I don't agree with any of that.
Peens and yours apparently, beliefs are based on reports that we offered a ton and got outbid..
I'd say the truth is more like we bid what we felt it was worth and someone else bid more.. end of story..
I don't believe egg was involved
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Is it just the Redskins over paying receivers, or is the value of receivers just that much higher now between the pass first offense and the new CBA? It seems like the Bills paid their receiver pretty high as well.
The new,more upbeat me will say,that's a very good question and we would need to do some research to come to an answer.
the old me would have said,I don't know,let's go ask Brandon Marshall.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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I really, really hope we do not sign Flynn. I just don't see him as a top end QB. I would much rather see us give Colt one more year. If he sucks, we WILL be drafting high and have a shot at Barkley. If he improves, he will give us about what Flynn would anyways (for far less cash). Now if Tebow becomes available  .......
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If....IF...we made an offer then you have a point.
Here is the thing....did we? Its been reported that we did...but nobody knows for sure when all we ever hear is 'league sources'.
What are league sources? I can guarantee that the rams told the skins that other teams were interested. I can guarantee that we were mentioned, wether we were interested or not. Why? Because it sets the price.....sets it REAL high.
Right where the rams wanted it. Sane teams would have walked away, but the skins weren't going to be beat.
For all we know a member of the rams front office leaked this. Or someone in the skins front office said that we were interested, because thats what the rams said.
Its ridiculous. I think we stick with McCoy for another year. I say this not based on results, but based on time giving the desired results.
The only qb that i can see us going after if our front office knows that McCoy isn't the guy is flynn. He's got 4 years in this system, his learning curve would be less than any rookie qb.
I don't see the point of bashing our front office, when in fact you and I don't know what they have tried or not tried to do. They have stated that they will build thru the draft, and not go crazy in free agency. So far they have done exactly what they have said they would do.
As painful as it is to watch....what happens if its whats needed to become a perennial contender? A little time...some experience for the players in the system?
We've tried everything else. Why not this?
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Now if Tebow becomes available .......
so, considering the thread, you are suggesting we trade the #4 pick for Tebow? that's an interesting suggestion (IMO terrible one, but interesting nonetheless)
#gmstrong
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It was meant more as a joke (ie getting Tebow).
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Now if Tebow becomes available .......
Holy crap on a cracker, I hope this was not serious.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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The only qb that i can see us going after if our front office knows that McCoy isn't the guy is flynn. He's got 4 years in this system, his learning curve would be less than any rookie qb.
I don't see us going after Flynn unless we can get him at a bargian basement price...which isn't going to happen. I think a much likelier situation is this: If Manning goes to Arizona...we will have an interest in Kolb when he is released. If Manning goes to Tennessee, we will be interested in Hassellbeck when released. If Manning goes elsewhere, we will look to the draft at most likely Weedon (but not to start right away) or another developmental QB.
Is it popular....no...but it is the SMART MOVE.
And IF NEED BE we will still be in a position to look at the QB class next year...regardless of whether it is Barkley or not...the class appears to be strong and we should be able to get a strong candidate thoughout the first round.
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Quote:
It was meant more as a joke (ie getting Tebow).
sorry, mine should have been in purple. mine was also a joke to get back on topic to the thread!title 
#gmstrong
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I don't disagree with that. I'm just looking at it from what i perceive to be the front offices approach.
I know its not popular, but I think that what you see in a qb in years one and two is not the finished product. Holmgren has stated 2 years in the same system and then you know what you have. I take him on his word for that. Mostly because i don't have a choice, secondly because it makes sense.
I bring up flynn only because if...and its a big if...they think McCoy isn't going to cut it based on 2 years of film (even though its not the same system) and you have a chance to get a guy that you think can step in and perform better, then you do it.
I just don't see this front office straying from their plan. Even if Flynn = McCoy...meaning possible quality starter at qb, Flynn is still way ahead of McCoy as far as knowing the system. 3 more years of study is huge.
Unless we get rid of wallace, i don't see us bringing in an older vet...we could i suppose, if we thought McCoy needed to sit and learn some more, but i think we would have a hard time doing that now.
I don't know crap about Weeden, but I could see us bringing in someone to develop, except we might have that guy on the roster right now, that we stole from the rams.
Starter...backup, developmental.... 3 are filled imo....only question is it the backup or starter spot that needs upgrading.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Here is the thing....did we? Its been reported that we did...but nobody knows for sure when all we ever hear is 'league sources'.
Any moment now,, you will be called me..... Careful
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
If....IF...we made an offer then you have a point.
Here is the thing....did we? Its been reported that we did...but nobody knows for sure when all we ever hear is 'league sources'.
Look, if you guys want to hide behind that there is no use discussing it.
If we made a lower offer than reported, I think Heckert would be all over it saying we didn't offer that much.. He could sell it off as it was way to expensive and use that as the reason we dropped out....
At this point it doesn't matter. It's clear we are working on plan B....lets hope that works out.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I was discussing it....
I could just as easily say that since your mind is made up that we botched the deal, then there is no reason to discuss it.
We either did...and chickened out...or someone wanted it to appear that we were in the bidding.
Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that if you were the rams gm, that you wouldn't have been throwing our name out there as a bidder to drive the price up with the skins?
Thats salesmanship 101...
Its entirely possible that we never even tried to get him, and our name was used to get a killer offer from the skins.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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lol....I don't take this stuff that serious anymore. I used to get all irritated....still do sometimes i guess. We all want a winner, and we all have different views on how to get there. I don't fault anyone for their beliefs. I don't have to be right...and it doesn't even matter if i was. Heckert and Homgren...they are the ones that have to be right. I'm just gonna watch no matter what....just like all of you 
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Quote:
I was discussing it....
I could just as easily say that since your mind is made up that we botched the deal, then there is no reason to discuss it.
We either did...and chickened out...or someone wanted it to appear that we were in the bidding.
Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that if you were the rams gm, that you wouldn't have been throwing our name out there as a bidder to drive the price up with the skins?
Thats salesmanship 101...
Its entirely possible that we never even tried to get him, and our name was used to get a killer offer from the skins.
Ok, riddle me this. Why are we denying the faulty reports about being in the hunt for Flynn??
If Heckert allowed the Rams to play us for their benefit and didn't say anything to dispell that, Heckert doesn't have a hair on his ass.
Would you let someone play you like that??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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 I think it went down like this. The Rams contacted us and they contacted the 'Skins. They said "give us your best offer. We're only taking one offer from each team and we're taking them at the same time. We will NOT give you a second chance." So, our FO and the 'Skins' FO sat down, and they each thought about their best offer. Our FO said "well, we have to think our two first-round picks this year plus our first next year is better than anything the 'Skins can offer. So, that's our offer." The 'Skins sat down and said "We can't beat the Browns' offer of 2 firsts this year, so we'll go a first the next two years, plus a second." We submit our offers at the same time. The Rams look at both, really think about it, and decide, for whatever reason, they like the 'Skins offer better. I don't see that as screwing up the deal. I see that as our offer not meeting someone else's offer. Think about a building contractor. They get a chance to bid on a job. They take into account all the materials, labor and profit margin. They then submit the bid. Does every contractor win every single bid they put in? No. Does it mean they're always screwing up? No. Maybe another contractor wants the work so badly that they give a ridiculous deal that no other contractor would ever offer. I think that's what happened here. Our "bid" wasn't accepted. The only way we could have won is if we had offered even MORE than the 'Skins to begin with, and I think it's reasonable to believe that our two first-rounders this year plus a first next year would be a better option than firsts over the next two years plus a second. JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
I think it went down like this.
The Rams contacted us and they contacted the 'Skins. They said "give us your best offer. We're only taking one offer from each team and we're taking them at the same time. We will NOT give you a second chance."
So, our FO and the 'Skins' FO sat down, and they each thought about their best offer.
Our FO said "well, we have to think our two first-round picks this year plus our first next year is better than anything the 'Skins can offer. So, that's our offer."
The 'Skins sat down and said "We can't beat the Browns' offer of 2 firsts this year, so we'll go a first the next two years, plus a second."
We submit our offers at the same time. The Rams look at both, really think about it, and decide, for whatever reason, they like the 'Skins offer better.
I don't see that as screwing up the deal. I see that as our offer not meeting someone else's offer.
JMHO
Thats about how I feel about it as well.
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what I don't get is how our #4 and #22 this year and first next year isn't better than what the 'Skins gave up.
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I can't see our front office responding to every ridiculous bit of speculation by the media. They all say we need a qb...the draft pundits all say we need a qb....the fans all say we need a qb....
I'm sure they know they need a qb. Maybe we already have one. Maybe we are targeting someone else in the draft. Maybe we want to trade down with the rams into the skins spot.
I don't see how it matters...what is the point of dispelling the rumor? I'm sure there are tons of rumors....i would rather have them concentrating on the draft board.
If our front office said, "nuh uh...we didn't ask about a trade...." would you believe them?
Who knows peen. Its all smoke, mirrors, and bs right now...you know it.
Maybe we inquired what it would take just to evaluate our options. Maybe our front office is looking to upgrade the qb position, but they have a limit because we have other areas to upgrade too..
Maybe they see McCoy as being equal to flynn and cheaper to boot, so they dispelled that rumor, because McCoy will be the starter.
This is like high stakes hold-em, mixed with chess. I don't know what they are thinking any more than you.
I do know they want to build a winner, and i'm sure they have a plan as to how to best accomplish that. As for the rest....assumptions, and speculation...and you know how that goes.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
Well, I guess the Rams saw it as having 2 picks this year and 2 picks next year (from us) versus having 1 pick this year, 2 picks next year, and 2 picks the following year (from Washington).
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 Likes: 501 |
Only a hypothetical but...
Who would you rather have for the #4 pick, Justin Blackmon or Mike Wallace?
I take Wallce every time.
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Rookie
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Rookie
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5 |
Why would that makes sense as a owner of a business who is trying to get the best return possible?
Why would the Rams give each team a fair opportunity instead of trying to drive up the value?
The Rams made it a bidding a war and let each team know what the other was offering until the other would stop bidding. That just makes the most sense on their part because they obviously want to maximize the value of their pick.
At any rate, Heckert graded RGIII as his guy and he failed....period....he failed....some people won't admit it but Peen is right, Heckert got beat bad and looks bad around the league.
However, its over, we must pick up the pieces and move forward.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Pick #4
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