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Not sure if you meant me, but...
WHAT!!! 58 minutes, are you crazy, my time is far more valuable spent reading this site watching bball and scratching the occasional itch. 
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Not sure if you meant me, but...
WHAT!!! 58 minutes, are you crazy, my time is far more valuable spent reading this site watching bball and scratching the occasional itch.
LOL No just forgot to put that I was just cliicking.. 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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J/C
Well I guess that puts to rest all of the "crazy" trade terms for acquiring the #2 pick.
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Dawg Talker
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Well, I stand corrected. I did not think they would offer the moon. Still glad we keep our picks. Too many holes to fill. Much rather have RB or CB. If Dilfer can be serviceable, than I'm pretty sure Colt can get it done.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow
#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Legend
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Well, to play the other side, how do we know that's true??  It sounds like we offered the 3 #1 picks....maybe even the other pick. If it was a stacked trade, it is what it is. It would be interesting to know where the close relationship might be.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Hall of Famer
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I was on the call and that was the biggest bombshell to me.
He said that the offer was every bit the offer that was chosen. He said that he didn't want to get too far into it but there were reasons why they made the trade with Washington due to personal relationships.
You could tell that he was upset and shocked that they took Washington's offer. I truly believe that he believed the offer they made was superior but a buddy did another buddy a favor
Wait a sec. Didn't Shumur come from St. Louis? Just one year removed from them.
Do they have some animosity towards the Browns because of Shurmur?
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I was on the call and that was the biggest bombshell to me.
He said that the offer was every bit the offer that was chosen. He said that he didn't want to get too far into it but there were reasons why they made the trade with Washington due to personal relationships.
You could tell that he was upset and shocked that they took Washington's offer. I truly believe that he believed the offer they made was superior but a buddy did another buddy a favor
Wait a sec. Didn't Shumur come from St. Louis? Just one year removed from them.
Do they have some animosity towards the Browns because of Shurmur?
Fisher has no connection to Shurmur. No one else in the Rams organization matters.
#GMSTRONG
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Did the ownership change hands?
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Legend
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OP
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Did the ownership change hands?
I don't think so, but it's a new GM and new HC. I think what Holmgren is PO'd about is that he felt we never had a chance. I have a feeling we offered the exact same package (though in different years b/c of how the picks fall), but the Rams took the Skins offer. I think Holmgren feels that even if we offered more, we still wouldn't have gotten it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Or he is just wanting to change the subject.
At any rate, that is water over the dam.....nothing can be done about it so no sense worrying about it any longer. I'm not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Quote:
Or he is just wanting to change the subject.
At any rate, that is water over the dam.....nothing can be done about it so no sense worrying about it any longer. I'm not.
I agree. RGIII might end up being a great QB. I hope so, seems like a good guy. But I'm glad we have the picks instead.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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maybe the Rams see us getting better and think the Skins future picks are likely to be higher than ours. 
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Browns: Relationship blocked RG3 move March, 15, 2012 By Jamison Hensley The general perception is that the Cleveland Browns failed to move up in the draft to get quarterback Robert Griffin III because they didn't offer enough to the St. Louis Rams for the second overall pick. Browns general manager Mike Holmgren believes Cleveland had no shot at making the trade. In a conference call with Browns season-ticket holders today, Holmgren said "a very close relationship" between the Rams and Redskins prevented Cleveland from moving two spots up in the draft. Holmgren didn't go into specifics about the relationship, but it's well-known that Rams coach Jeff Fisher and Redskins coach Mike Shanahan are close friends. This is a very serious accusation from Holmgren, and he wouldn't speak publicly about this if he didn't feel strongly about its validity. If you doubt the closeness of Shanahan and Fisher, there's an article in USA Today from five years ago about the NFL's version of bosom buddies. Fisher and Shanahan bonded in the 1990s in San Francisco, where Fisher was the 49ers' defensive backs coach for two years (1992-93) while Shanahan served as the offensive coordinator for three (1992-94). Let's be clear about this: If this is true, Shanahan and Fisher didn't violate any NFL rule that I know about. But they are guilty of poor sportsmanship. I could understand a team trying to avoid helping out a division rival. But if the Browns gave the best offer, they deserved the pick. The Redskins moved into the No. 2 spot by sending the Rams this year's picks in the first round (sixth overall) and second round as well as first-rounders in 2013 and 2014. There were reports that the Browns offered three first-round picks but not this year's second-round one. Holmgren said the reports about the Browns' offer were incorrect, saying Cleveland made "every bit the offer" as the Redskins. While no one knows whether those future first-round picks would be better from the Redskins or Browns, a similar offer would favor the Browns because they were offering the fourth overall pick while the Redskins could only give the No. 6 pick. “Honestly, when it didn’t happen -- I think there are reasons that I can’t go into right now -- but there is a very close relationship between the people getting the deal done and the people who offered," Holmgren said in the conference call. "And I’m not sure anything we offered would have been good enough. We were very, very aggressive and it didn’t work." In other words, Holmgren says don't blame the Browns for failing to get RG3. You can point the finger -- or Dawg bone, if you prefer -- squarely at Shanahan and Fisher. web page USA Today article mentioned.
#GMSTRONG
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Quote:
Browns: Relationship blocked RG3 move
March, 15, 2012
By Jamison Hensley
The general perception is that the Cleveland Browns failed to move up in the draft to get quarterback Robert Griffin III because they didn't offer enough to the St. Louis Rams for the second overall pick.
Browns general manager Mike Holmgren believes Cleveland had no shot at making the trade.
In a conference call with Browns season-ticket holders today, Holmgren said "a very close relationship" between the Rams and Redskins prevented Cleveland from moving two spots up in the draft. Holmgren didn't go into specifics about the relationship, but it's well-known that Rams coach Jeff Fisher and Redskins coach Mike Shanahan are close friends.
This is a very serious accusation from Holmgren, and he wouldn't speak publicly about this if he didn't feel strongly about its validity. If you doubt the closeness of Shanahan and Fisher, there's an article in USA Today from five years ago about the NFL's version of bosom buddies. Fisher and Shanahan bonded in the 1990s in San Francisco, where Fisher was the 49ers' defensive backs coach for two years (1992-93) while Shanahan served as the offensive coordinator for three (1992-94).
Let's be clear about this: If this is true, Shanahan and Fisher didn't violate any NFL rule that I know about. But they are guilty of poor sportsmanship. I could understand a team trying to avoid helping out a division rival. But if the Browns gave the best offer, they deserved the pick.
The Redskins moved into the No. 2 spot by sending the Rams this year's picks in the first round (sixth overall) and second round as well as first-rounders in 2013 and 2014. There were reports that the Browns offered three first-round picks but not this year's second-round one. Holmgren said the reports about the Browns' offer were incorrect, saying Cleveland made "every bit the offer" as the Redskins.
While no one knows whether those future first-round picks would be better from the Redskins or Browns, a similar offer would favor the Browns because they were offering the fourth overall pick while the Redskins could only give the No. 6 pick.
“Honestly, when it didn’t happen -- I think there are reasons that I can’t go into right now -- but there is a very close relationship between the people getting the deal done and the people who offered," Holmgren said in the conference call. "And I’m not sure anything we offered would have been good enough. We were very, very aggressive and it didn’t work."
In other words, Holmgren says don't blame the Browns for failing to get RG3. You can point the finger -- or Dawg bone, if you prefer -- squarely at Shanahan and Fisher.
web page
USA Today article mentioned.
But, but, but..........that can't be! Listen to the people on here - it CAN'T be - all that happened was the Browns screwed up.
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Quote:
Well, to play the other side, how do we know that's true??
It sounds like we offered the 3 #1 picks....maybe even the other pick. If it was a stacked trade, it is what it is.
It would be interesting to know where the close relationship might be.
The owners are best friends, go yahting together and all that fun stuff. Fisher and shannahan are also really good friends so it was a double whammy against us.
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I hope that Karma bits them both in the butt and someday we can return the dirty deed 
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Legend
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But, but, but..........that can't be! Listen to the people on here - it CAN'T be - all that happened was the Browns screwed up.
Cool man. That is a scenario one couldn't project. The fact is we did, did, did, make the play for the guy which many said we didn't, didn't, didn't.
So not knowing the Rams would take less from the Skins( how does one think that could happen since we aren't natural rivals), it isn't a stretch to think we screwed the pooch. So yes, we were wrong.
However, don't try to make this sound that those of us who were upset didn't have every reason to believe so and those who said we didn't make the play for RGIII aren't clueless.
Understand?? 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Well, to play the other side, how do we know that's true??
It sounds like we offered the 3 #1 picks....maybe even the other pick. If it was a stacked trade, it is what it is.
It would be interesting to know where the close relationship might be.
Somewhere it was written that the close relationship was between Shanahan and Fisher... FWIW
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Legend
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So here's what I heard on this call:
We tried to get RG3, our offer was as good or better in our opinion, but personal relationships sent the pick to the Skins.
Plan B is to put weapons around Colt.
Holmgren expects to be better than a 6 win team this year. He says just wait and see.... I for one will hold him to that.
Year two in the WCO under Shurmur will be better... again , we'll see.
Translation: We sucked last year and we know it. Please give us time to put a product on the field this year and we promise it will be better.
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Looks like you nailed it.
My question to Big Mike would be "Or What?"
If don't win more than 6 six,there will be no consequencies,no heads will roll,players won't get cut.We'll hear the same crap next year.
Nothing more than hot air.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I hope that Karma bits them both in the butt and someday we can return the dirty deed
Wouldn't it be something if the Browns get the 32nd pick each of he next 2 years and the Rams get the 31st pick from Washington and the 30th pick after losing to Washington in the NFC Championship?
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"Plan B is to put weapons around Colt"
Or whoever is playing QB... Is how I remember it.. I don't think they are done trying to upgrade that position THIS year.
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Wow. I am surprised they matched the Redskins offer. Oops.  As to the sportsmanship of it... I have no problem with the Rams taking a worse deal for the Redskins. Would make perfect sense on the school yard, you favor your friends. Dudes will both be alive for another 10-20 years, why muck it up over 600 trade value.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum "Exclusive" Conference Call w/
Holmgren & Heckert at 2:00
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