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J/C
Right now, I would go
1 Tannehill QB
1b Cordy Glenn RT
2 Doug Martin RB
3 Brian Quick WR
Wow, just wow. All I can say. These boards have gone off the deep end. Is mangini running this draft? Any mock with tanny at four is a waste. Wr no sooner than our fourth pick?
Tanny at four? I have some nice aisle 35 yrd line psls for sale if so.
I would like dibs on those seats! If we take the 59th ranked player in the draft with his 9 inch hands at 4 That would have to be one of the biggest reaches and blunders in draft history when several elite players are on the board with a team that lacks any. I would be sick and I like Tannehill, not in the first round though. He is a project and needs to sit at least a year or two.
QB Rankings
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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He probably will sit....for 5-6 games anyway.
As for receiver....I think Quick will be as good as Blackmon, at a much better draft position. Not to mention we pick up a solid back and solid lineman.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I don't get the Quick hype at all...he has disappointed at the SR Bowl and the track record of App.St WRs isn't helping him either
#gmstrong
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I would go dwight jones instead but I like that draft.
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Quote:
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J/C
Right now, I would go
1 Tannehill QB
1b Cordy Glenn RT
2 Doug Martin RB
3 Brian Quick WR
Wow, just wow. All I can say. These boards have gone off the deep end. Is mangini running this draft? Any mock with tanny at four is a waste. Wr no sooner than our fourth pick?
Tanny at four? I have some nice aisle 35 yrd line psls for sale if so.
I would like dibs on those seats! If we take the 59th ranked player in the draft with his 9 inch hands at 4 That would have to be one of the biggest reaches and blunders in draft history when several elite players are on the board with a team that lacks any. I would be sick and I like Tannehill, not in the first round though. He is a project and needs to sit at least a year or two.
QB Rankings
This is pretty much how I feel. It's fine to take a gamble with picks, but not with the 4th overall pick. This team has so many holes, going for a boom or bust guy seems like playing with fire. When you have a top 5 pick, you have to take the best possible prospect and there is no way that Tannehill is the 4th best prospect in this draft. Richardson, Blackmon, Claiborne all are way safer picks and have stud potential. Tannehill may be a stud..or he just may be Matt Jones.
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Dwight Jones looked pretty good vs. VT. Would you take him over Criner, though?
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Yes I would. I think he will translate to the pro level better and working in the WCO at UNC will help as well.
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I could see that. He has an imposing frame and he got open often against Hosley.
What do you think of Bryn Renner?
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I could see that. He has an imposing frame and he got open often against Hosley.
What do you think of Bryn Renner?
This begs the question ... Just who is writing for NFL.com
This is from the Combine on DJ at 6'3" 230 lbs and after reading the first line it's hard to read the rest with any credibility in mind.
Weaknesses
Jones is a skinny receiver who can struggle at times going across the middle. He is capable at times and shown the ability, but will alligator arm the ball at times when peeking at safeties coming down on him. This is synonymous with some of his other various hitches, such as disappearing at times in games or for entire games. While he has decent speed, if he puts on weight this area could be a concern, and he is a nonexistent blocker at his current weight. He hasn't displayed much effort in contributing to the run game up to this point.
So a 6'3" 230 lb WR is skinny?  
Anyway NFLdraftscout has him as the #15 WR #128 OA.
He was once considered a 2nd round prospect, so something tells me that there might be more then meets the eye with Jones.
Some said last year that Little had a bad attitude and had him falling out of the top 100 too, but I just did not see it. Perhaps Jones is being falsely labeled as well ... I don't know?
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Renner looks like he is 12 years old lol. Kid has major upside. Believe he is a redshirt sophmore so he will be around for 2 more years probably unless he really lights it up next year.
Big tall kid, thin framed, NFL arm, runs the WCO has a bit of a windup that I dont like but he has improved and cut down on some of that unnecessary motion. Kid will play at the next level but he really needs to pack on 20 pounds at least and clean up motion a bit but he could be a top 5 pick in 2014 draft.
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I would say a #2. I don't think anybody would give up a #1 next yr. to move up 2-3 spots.
We we're going to give up 3 #1s to do it...
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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j/c...
Justin Blackmon has 232 catches, >3300 yards, and 38 TDs in the past 2 seasons. Who was the last FBS WR to have that kind of production in college?
Over the past four drafts, Ryan Broyles and Michael Crabtree are the closest it seems. Actually, Crabtree's production just about mirrors Blackmon's. Nobody else really comes close.
AJ Green: 3 seasons (well, 2.5) 166 catches, 2619 yd, 23 TDs
Julio Jones: 3 seasons 179 catches, 2653 yd, 15 TDs
Ryan Broyles: 2.7 Seasons 303 catches, 3899 yards, 39 TDs
Eric Page: 3 seasons 306 catches, 3446 yards, 25 TDs
Golden Tate: 2 seasons 151 catches, 2576 yards, 25 TDs
Jordan Shipley: 2 seasons 205 catches, 2545 yards, 24 TDs
Michael Crabtree: 2 seasons 231 catches, 3127 yards, 41 TDs.
So I guess the questions are:
How much does college production matter?
Why did Crabtree fail?
Do we hold Blackmon's production against him? Or does it bear merit?
Does Blackmon have the inner drive to step up his game for the NFL?
Do we have the leaders we need to help keep talented players focused?
It seems to me like this guy has the ability to be great. It sure looks like college production can't be used to predict success in the NFL, though. I hope the Browns make sure one way or the other whether he's got his head on straight. I to this point have no reason to think he doesn't.
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If the guy comes off with the slightest drama queen attitude, I think you have to take a pass in the first round. Between Edwards, Crabtree and Dez Brant, I just really dont want that on my team. It is just bad mojo for the locker room.
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Over the past four drafts, Ryan Broyles and Michael Crabtree are the closest it seems. Actually, Crabtree's production just about mirrors Blackmon's.
....
Why did Crabtree fail?
Are you sure he did? He has played for a team that has been a run first team (3rd in the NFL in attempts this year), he has played with substandard QB play (especially up to this year), he has played for a team that was very TE focused in its passing game...
He has improved every year in his first 3 years... I don't think he's ever going to be elite.. but I don't think he has failed.
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if you take a WR in the top10 and he doesn't become elite, then yeah, he has failed. not an epic complete bust of a failure, but still not what you drafted him to be.
#gmstrong
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I'm actually beginning to fall the other way on Blackmon.
It's unfortunate how it happened.
I decided last night to watch everything I could find on...Brandon Weeden. In the process, you know what I realized about Blackmon?
His hands are not elite, as he dropped more passes than I was expecting.
He's a MAJOR showboat who celebrates way too much for my liking.
His route-running isn't as great as I was expecting to see.
Blackmon got by in college based on freakish strength for a receiver without elite size. He breaks a ton of tackles for a receiver, and again, breaks way more tackles than receivers his size.
But he's not perfect, and #4 is too early for me.
I almost think I'd rather take Tannehill at #4 than I would Blackmon. If I'm going to throw the dice on a risky player at a risky position, well, it might as well be at QB.
Since I believe the only two 1st-tier QB's and Kalil are gonna be gone, this is how I view things at the moment:
1) Richardson
2) Claiborne
3) Tannehill
4) Blackmon
5) Coples
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I almost think I'd rather take Tannehill at #4 than I would Blackmon. If I'm going to throw the dice on a risky player at a risky position, well, it might as well be at QB.
Mourg is beginning to wear on you.
As to your signature. The medicine wouldn't be any harder to swallow than Marecic and Cameron Jordan were, in the long run. As Browns fans we endure disasters of near biblical proportions at least biannually don't we.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Marecic and Jordan, those guys were mid-round picks!
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You heard it here first .... TOAD says: " I'd rather take Tannehill at #4" 
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Sooo....what were your thoughts on Weeden? I'm thinking hard to secure him with pick 37 in my mock...part of me wants to take a risk and let him slide to our 3rd but I'm fearing the Cards and Chiefs and maybe even the Eagles with 2 picks could take a chance on him By the time the draft starts, you'll come around that Claiborne is the best "value" (position, career longevity, mid to long term need, money) of the draft...you're on your way  Richardson would improve this team the most for 2012 with THAT pick alone...but like the Mack pick, from a draft strategical viewpoint it's not very smart...a shutdown CB at 4 and an AVG RB in the 3rd/4th is simply better value than a great RB and Nickel-CB in the 3rd/4th As always, people forget to project and assess the WHOLE draft...we have 12 other picks, 4 other Top100 picks to select talents that can help day 1....shoot 1st and think about the rest later isn't the smartest way to approach a draft....think about a Fantasy Baseball Draft if you like, picking the best Catcher often is a wasted pick as they never outperform their slotting....gotta consider positional depth and where you pick when measuring VALUE...Bellichick said it best: "We're building a team, not collecting talent"
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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It's all going to be academic as Richardson is going to be our pick.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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You heard it here first ....
TOAD says: " I'd rather take Tannehill at #4"
he said almost and...
Personally, this is why Cleveland is losing so many fans and young fans are growing up rooting for other teams. My son is 10 and his 4th grade class is split 50/40 Cleveland/Pitts/other. We live 20 minutes from the stadium. What other cities in the NFL have been as bad (recently) as we are are? In 10 years they won't have anyone filling up the stands.
All good teams have a solid team minus the QB. They lose a QB and tank the next season and are able to draft high. The next Decade they spend at the top again. The part that everyone misses is that.... most of these other teams. figure out how to build a D, OL, a WR core, and insert a QB and RB. We really have to stop building the team the opposite way everyone else does. (some teams) get lucky and get talent like Manning Farve Rodgers etc. Personally, Brady was not anything special. He was built and because they put him on a Good team to start. Same with all of the other later round draft picks.
We don't quite have all of the pieces to insert top notch QB.
We still need a WR RT LB's CB S LB FS rotational DT Backup G's and T
If we draft that way this year... Colt will either lead us to the playoffs or will fail miserably and next year we can mortgage the future because we have 90% of the key pieces in place.
We keep getting ahead of ourselves and wanting the baker to throw the cake in the over before we added the eggs to the mix.
Meh.
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Hill, Wright, Jeffery, Sanu, Reuben Randle can all come in and start day1. You also have a ton of other guys including Broyles, Dwight Jones, Childs, Criner that have major talent. Unless you have a Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald type, you avoid the top 10 investment in that position. It is simply to hard to project.
Now there are 6 running backs that are capable of coming in and starting after Richardson comes off the board. 10 years ago, all probably go in the first round lol.
I see only 1 QB left that looks like he has anything close to the potential to be a franchise QB. Weeden can't move and Cousins can't throw.
It is a strong draft for all of our needs but unfortunately 2 of our QB options are already gone and there is only one left with franchise potential.
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Hill, Wright, Jeffery, Sanu, Reuben Randle can all come in and start day1. You also have a ton of other guys including Broyles, Dwight Jones, Childs, Criner that have major talent. Unless you have a Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald type, you avoid the top 10 investment in that position. It is simply to hard to project.
Now there are 6 running backs that are capable of coming in and starting after Richardson comes off the board. 10 years ago, all probably go in the first round lol.
I see only 1 QB left that looks like he has anything close to the potential to be a franchise QB. Weeden can't move and Cousins can't throw.
It is a strong draft for all of our needs but unfortunately 2 of our QB options are already gone and there is only one left with franchise potential.
over 50% of the time in the past decade the #3 qb drafted has failed.
why do we need to be the team that drafts that guy?
Meh.
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I see only 1 QB left that looks like he has anything close to the potential to be a franchise QB. Weeden can't move and Cousins can't throw.
I agree with this, I don't want a 28 year old college QB. And while I like Kirk Cousins the college player and his intangibles, the guy just doesn't have NFL talent in my book. Comparing his arm to Tannehill's arm is night and day.
Cousins has less upside than McCoy in my book (what would be the point).
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That is just a bad argument. Some years have strong QB classes at the top and some don't. I don't think any of the QBs last year had the talent of Tannehill and that includes Cam. Cam is DA with great mobility. Perfect for Chud.
This is a strong at the top QB class but there is nothing beneath the top 3 worth mentioning.
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His hands are not elite, as he dropped more passes than I was expecting.
Yes, he definitely drops some passes. His biggest knock by far. He also caught 232 over the past two seasons.
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His route-running isn't as great as I was expecting to see.
Yet he was able to get open short, middle and deep on a consistent basis.
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Blackmon got by in college based on freakish strength for a receiver without elite size. He breaks a ton of tackles for a receiver, and again, breaks way more tackles than receivers his size.
And that's what I love most about him. I can't remember seeing a WR in college take so many plays that should have been 7 yard gains and turn them into 20-30 yarders. That's why I think he's a perfect fit for our offense.
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Cam is DA with great mobility.
That's just assinine. DA was a 50% completion guy in college and in his one decent year in the NFL he topped out at about 55% completions.. Cam was a 66% completion guy at Auburn and in his rookie year he completed over 60% of his passes. As far as accuracy and decision making go as a thrower of the football, DA doesn't even belong in the same conversation with Cam Newton.
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That is just a bad argument. Some years have strong QB classes at the top and some don't. I don't think any of the QBs last year had the talent of Tannehill and that includes Cam. Cam is DA with great mobility. Perfect for Chud.
This is a strong at the top QB class but there is nothing beneath the top 3 worth mentioning.
So was the year with Couch McNabb and Smith. Drafted 1-2-3.
What happened to Smith again? Wasn't he was supposed to be a huge upside pick and when he was playing for the Ducks?
Tannehill makes questionable throws at critical times and lofts balls. He has a 61% completion % He is terrible at looking off WR's. He usually goes to his second-read only while getting hit or flushing out of the pocket.
I like projects... We don't need a project at #4. I'd rather take another project with similar problems in the 4th-7th round.
Meh.
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I dont know. I watched a lot of Panther games last year because they are fun to watch but I saw a whole lot of bouncing the ball to wide open receivers from the kid.
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It is a strong draft for all of our needs but unfortunately 2 of our QB options are already gone and there is only one left with franchise potential.
mourg...how badly do the Dolphins want Tannehill?
Any idea what the Dolphins might be willing to give up to move ahead of the Browns to draft Tannehill at #3 ?
Next question...some considered Tannehill a reach at #4...does it make sense for the Browns to get into a bidding war with the Dolphins to move up to #3 to insure Tannehill is drafted by the Browns ?
If the Vikings had a choice, you have to believe they would rather deal with the Browns at #4 than the Dolphins at #8. The Vikings could make a trade with the Browns and still be sure of getting the guy at the top of their draft chart.
I never thought the Browns would find themselves in a position where they had to spend draft picks to move up from the #4 draft slot to insure they could draft a guy they wanted. If only the Browns had finished 2-14 instead of 4-12.
The Skins kind of set the tone when they gave up the farm to move into the #2 slot. With everything considered, Tannehill's connections with the Dolphins new OC Sherman, who was his coach at A&M and the fact that the Dolphins missed out of both Manning and Flynn...the Dolphins might be willing to give up a lot to move ahead of the Browns.
If the Browns decide they will not give up more than the #4 for Tannehill and if the Dolphins do make a deal to move up to #3 draft Tannehill, the Browns might consider trading down, to accumulate more picks.
Looking at the talent available at #4..Blackmon, Richardson, Claiborne, Kali (if the Dolphins trade up to #3)...trading down becomes an option the front office might consider, if Tannehill is picked at #3.
Maybe the Browns accumulate picks this year with the plan to use them to move up in next years draft to get the QB they want in the 2013 draft.
Last edited by mac; 03/30/12 08:25 AM.
GM strong...
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I take him if he is at 4 but I would not trade up for him.
Jeff Ireland can't get free agents to come there so I can't imagine they would trade away a lot of picks to fill a QB need when they do have Moore. I think they will take Floyd or Coples possibly even trade back trying to get buying power for Barkley next year.
If someone jumps us, we need to start planning for next year as well.
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If someone jumps us, we need to start planning for next year as well.
mourg...trading back, accumulating picks this year in order to have the ammunition to trade up to whereever we need to be to draft a top QB in the 2013 draft.
I wonder if Browns fans can think in terms of the Big Picture?
...a two year draft strategy, rather than only this years draft?
I could hear the local media going nuts if the Browns don't draft a QB in this draft and then trade back.
GM strong...
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Barkley could be the #4 or 5 Qb next year.
Tyler Wilson Arkansas (it will be interesting to see how he does next year after losing his top 3 wr's to the draft), Tyler Bray Tennessee, Logan Thomas Va Tech, the kid from Georgia, heck Landry Jones if he shows development are all potentially in next year's draft and all have superior physical tools than Barkley. Any or all could be drafted higher than Barkley.
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I agree with this, I don't want a 28 year old college QB. And while I like Kirk Cousins the college player and his intangibles, the guy just doesn't have NFL talent in my book. Comparing his arm to Tannehill's arm is night and day.
I've read several posts about Cousins not having an arm. I'm not saying it's as good as Tanneyhill's but I just watched some video clips, and in one he launced the ball 55 yards off his back foot with a guy in his face. His arm didn't look weak to me on that one. I haven't seen enough to make an overall judgment on whether or not he's draft worthy - just pointing out what I saw in that clip.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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mourg...trading back, accumulating picks this year in order to have the ammunition to trade up to whereever we need to be to draft a top QB in the 2013 draft.
I wonder if Browns fans can think in terms of the Big Picture?
...a two year draft strategy, rather than only this years draft?
I'm wondering why you didn't answer when I replied the 1st time to this great idea...
WE DID THAT LAST DRAFT ALREADY !!!
TRADE AMMO FOR LUCK...YEAH !!
We're sitting at 4...and have 3 Top 50 picks, 13 picks overall...and we couldn't even get the 2nd best QB...who the hell is going to guarantee you that we'll have a better shot next draft? It's improbable that we'll pick Top 5 again...and the price to trade up (and make no mistake about it, you'll have to pay for a franchise QB) is going to go UP not down
Imagine we win 6 games...improved roster, youth is growing, 2nd year in the system...it's not improbable that we'll win 6 games and pick around 10 or so...go ask the Seahawks or Chiefs how easy it is to trade up for a QB in that spot 
The sequel to a "always next year"...always next draft
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Sooo....what were your thoughts on Weeden? I'm thinking hard to secure him with pick 37 in my mock...part of me wants to take a risk and let him slide to our 3rd but I'm fearing the Cards and Chiefs and maybe even the Eagles with 2 picks could take a chance on him
I like Weeden less now than I did two days ago, hehe.
The impression that kept cropping up in my mind is that he's still a baseball pitcher out there playing football. He appeared to have what I call Brady Quinn accuracy, where his guys make the catches, but he doesn't hit his target in stride nearly enough and the receivers spend way too much time adjusting to his passes. In many ways he was Derek Anderson-like in that he makes up his mind where he's going with the ball and won't deviate from the plan regardless of coverage.
But the most damning tendency I saw was that when he's faced with pressure he falls apart.
I'm not going to go into this long drawn-out personal analysis on him, but what I will say is that in my mind I wouldn't spend anything higher than a 5th rounder on him.
Weeden is going to be 29 this year. He's taken about 4 snaps from under center in his entire life. The offense he has run is nothing like what he'll be asked to do in the NFL, meaning that by the time he begins to figure out just how to run a conventional offense he's going to be 31 or 32. When you combine that with iffy accuracy and low percentage of success when pressured, well, he's a guy that you can't count on to be a starter.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,557
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I liked Weeden the college QB but he isn't on a mound with all day to decide when to throw the ball. If the guy is forced to move a foot off his spot, his accuracy goes from about 80% to about 0%.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
I thought Weedon's accuracy was pretty good, but yeah he's basically a juggs machine. I thought he would get the throw off pretty well even knowing he was going to get hit but didn't move around to avoid pressure at all. I even saw him get sacked by the turf monster dropping back a few steps after the (shotgun) snap.
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Thanks for your assessment...after reading your post I went back re-watched hie "worst" game vs Iowa St Here it is... http://www.youtube.com/v/3XooClErAx4Man, it still was a pretty good performance overall and I remember how disappointed I was in him because he was so much better before...but he drove them down the field in regular time for the game winning FG (that was missed)...sure, 3-4 passes were't on the spot but still caught and 2 of his 3 INTs were of the tipped variety....he made some of those over the middle in between 3 defender-zone throws that I've never seen Colt even try...he wasn't pressured much in that game but agree that this is his biggest knock and we all know he will face pressure in the NFL...otoh he gets rid of the ball and anticipates well...he's a bit of a statue ("juggs machine" hits it, thanks CleveSteve) but he still reminds me of a less mobile Roethli....the question for me remains: how good would Roethli be without his pocket mobility? because that's Weeden imho Follow up question: what round would you take him if he was 22/23yo? Also: if you'd be in the tough spot of being the Browns GM you would go with McCoy-Wallace again into 2012 as you wouldn't gamble on Tannehill at 4 and wouldn't take Weeden in the top 4 rounds...unless you see another QB in the draft that could compete from day 1, that'd be the consequence of your thoughts, right? Real GMs, with real life pressing needs think differently...I'll never understand how someone can say "I would take Tannehill in the 2nd" but wouldn't take him at 4 overall...if you'd take him in the 2nd you obviously think he can be a fracnhise QB and you don't draft another starting caliber player, right? What's the difference between pick 4 and 37 when you know that this QB most probably won't be there at pick 37? That's why so many 2nd tier QBs get drafted in the 1st lately...you either think he's a franchise QB or you don't....McCoy (or Frye before) is a perfect example of what happens when you pick a QB in the "I don't really know, let's just take the kid" section of a draft....when you draft a QB in the top 2-3 rounds, he's supposed to see the field someday and the fans will be screaming his name sooner or later...and we're STUCK with Colt, BECAUSE we never took a chance earlier at a QB....he was our highest drafted QB the past 4 drafts, so by default he's our QB...people moan about it but aren't willing to OVER-spend what is needed to get a better one Put yourself in Heckert's shoes....the entire world knows that they don't see a franchise QB in Colt....you have a HC probably begging you to change the QB, so that he doesn't have to gnash his teeth and have "he battled" PCs every sunday again...what do you do? Let Tannehill go at 4 although you like him at 37? Let Weeden go because you like his value in the 3rd/4th better but not in the 2nd? QBs get overdrafted, it's like that because THE highest value position...many, including myself, laughed at the Bengals "wasting" a high 2nd on a supposedly mid round talent like Dalton It's easy to armchair GM and pick the best talent at a particular spot....I'll requote Bellichick: "We're building a team, not collecting talent"....
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) PD: Justin Blackmon makes sense
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