Is "consistency" the name of the new drum that's going to be beaten, now???
If so, then someone please chime in with the following for me so that I can keep up: Other than that part where EVERYTHING changed... can someone name anything that was consistent about last year??
Mack & Thomas don't count.... so, other than them... what in the name of God WAS consistent?? And how do you expect and harp about consistency when absolutely everyone and everything is in the middle of trying to figure out something very new and incredibly complex??
Nothing was consistent last year.. not a damn thing. But that doesn't count Purp
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: It would only mean 10-6 if our opponents didn't shut it down by the time the 4th quarter rolled around.
If If If.... I said,, as clearly as I could, based on the final scores of last years games, we'd have won 10 games had we been able to score 21 points.
Really?
Quote: Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record....
show me a consistant QB and I will show you a supporting cast that makes consistant plays. the only thing I saw consistant last year was inconsistancy. Dropped passes..missed blocks...WR's not giving 100% on route running. can anyone tell me what player on the offense actually played at a high level last year? Joe Thomas. Thats where it ends
Quote: show me a consistant QB and I will show you a supporting cast that makes consistant plays.
The NFC Championship game where Rogers was being pressured and his receivers dropping crucial passes shows what a consistent supporting cast does for an offense..Rogers Stat line for that game 26/46 264yards passing, 56.5%completion, 5.74ypa, a long gain of 21 in the air, 2TDs/1int., 78.5QBR. They still had 174 yards rushing and were 6/12 on third downs and had 4 TO's. When guys that normally make plays for you don't..It makes a great QB look average and messes with his head and it was noticeable.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: It would only mean 10-6 if our opponents didn't shut it down by the time the 4th quarter rolled around.
If If If.... I said,, as clearly as I could, based on the final scores of last years games, we'd have won 10 games had we been able to score 21 points.
Really?
Quote: Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record....
So you are saying you didn't understand that?...
Last edited by Damanshot; 04/02/1208:32 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Django..like I said it is one man's opinion. Just curious what teams needed a QB as a #1 need? Here is a link I didn't want to read all through it but just curious. Maybe you could find a different one. The reason Holmgren waited and knew they could get McCoy later was the fact that most teams had QB's and it wasn't a need for most teams and the nerve damage. Under those circumstance he was taken right where he should have been.
Interestingly, the reviewer highlighted a few key points about the Browns heading into the 2010 draft.
The Browns could also use help at Right Tackle. By far John St. Clair is the weak link on their offensive line, and it could be time for the Browns to seek an upgrade.
and
If the Browns decide to stay with Anderson, than their top need becomes a number one wide receiver. Given the trade demands of Joshua Cribbs that could be their biggest need anyway.
We know they didn't stick with Anderson but brought in Delhomme & Wallace then drafted McCoy.
They drafted Little last year, but he's not what is meant by a 'number one wide receiver' and both the RT and WR spots are needs on this team still. To their benefit, the Holmgren & Heckert Show have made a pretty darn good defense out there.
Interestingly, the reviewer highlighted a few key points about the Browns heading into the 2010 draft.
The Browns could also use help at Right Tackle. By far John St. Clair is the weak link on their offensive line, and it could be time for the Browns to seek an upgrade.
and
If the Browns decide to stay with Anderson, than their top need becomes a number one wide receiver. Given the trade demands of Joshua Cribbs that could be their biggest need anyway.
We know they didn't stick with Anderson but brought in Delhomme & Wallace then drafted McCoy.
They drafted Little last year, but he's not what is meant by a 'number one wide receiver' and both the RT and WR spots are needs on this team still. To their benefit, the Holmgren & Heckert Show have made a pretty darn good defense out there.
In their defense we tried to build the team threw their defense first philosophy, but it's pretty obvious to me that WR (#1) and RT are our teams biggest needs this year.
Other needs are upgrades, but we have neither of the above.
In this League you lead, follow or be left by the wayside of the road.
Don't back off your "Colt is the problem" stance now. Your opinions of Colt are well documented. Trust me.
However, what the Little highlight reveals is everything you have said Colt can't do. Long throws, short throws, velocity, timing, accuracy......in short, everything you have said Colt can't do is there for the viewing.........
Quote: So you are saying you didn't understand that?...
I'm saying that divining
Quote: I said,, as clearly as I could, based on the final scores of last years games, we'd have won 10 games had we been able to score 21 points.
from
Quote: Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record
is a stretch. But if that's what you think you "clearly" said, then so be it. Either way, its an asinine argument, and one that I'm certain nobody here gives any credence to. Adding an arbitrary number of points to our point total in each game and saying, "see, all we had to do is score 'x' more points and we'd be 10-6" means absolutely nothing, because in no real-world scenario is it applicable.
Are you trying to say that the Steelers, Ravens or 49ers, for example, would not have been able to hang another 3-7 points on us if the game was on the line? None of our games against those teams was ever in doubt beyond halftime except for the second Steelers game, where we took a 6-3 lead into halftime and let them come out and score 10 points on their first two second-half possessions. Other than that, the only reason these teams didn't score more than your arbitrary total of 21 points is because there was no need to.
Were you just trying to demonstrate your command of basic mathematics? Because aside from that, what was the point?
Quote: Oh, and a word of warning about season or 2 highlight reels ..... I bet that I could do a similar one on Frye, Quinn, Anderson, Couch, and every other QB to wander his way through Berea ... all showing "evidence" contrary to their purported weaknesses. Highlight reels prove nothing, except that someone had a few highlights.
I agree but in this case, there were some posters.. and I won't name names.. who repeatedly said that there were a lot of things that Colt physically was incapable of doing... and he has done them... that is why the new buzz word evidently has changed to "consistently"..
Well if you can physically do something once, you can learn to do it consistently... I will be the first to admit that he doesn't have a lot of time left to prove that he gets it and starts doing it more often.. but if he can do it, then there is a lot more hope than if he actually couldn't do it at all.
Quote: The thing is...Colt NEVER was considered even a potential franchise QB by 32 teams...all 32 teams passed him 2 or 3 times, including us in an incredibly weak QB class
And this means...what???
By your logic, Tom Brady is half the QB of Colt McCoy.
It means that we rather traded 3 picks for a gamble on a RB with bum knees than selecting our supposed franchise QB
and Tom Brady is a perfect example for my argument...he was NEVER drafted as a franchise QB...he was forced onto the field and made himself a franchise QB by playing good...he got a chance and ran away with it...Colt got his and he crapped his pants...like 98% of QB's picked in the 3rd to 7th do btw, so he's not alone...Tom Brady is the rare (actually UNIQUE) exception, not the norm...but he was never drafted with the intention to give him 20 + NFL starts...he earned them and Colt didn't...that's the difference
The 2011 Browns are not built like the 2001 Patriots. Tom Brady arose with a talented team around him. In McCoy's defense, he's had to deal with issues at RB and WR's. Its to my understanding that we led the league in drops last year.
Quote: The 2011 Browns are not built like the 2001 Patriots. Tom Brady arose with a talented team around him. In McCoy's defense, he's had to deal with issues at RB and WR's.
Troy Brown David Patten Kevin Faulk Marc Edwards Antowain Smith
That's the list of Brady's top 5 targets catch wise in 2001. Those last 3 are RBs. That's how good his WRs were that year. His TE's were Jermaine Wiggins and Rod Rutledge. They had a combined 19 catches.
That 2001 Patriots team was an example of low level free agency shopping really paying off. They brought in all kinds of washed up and never was "talent", and made it work because they had Tom Brady getting an opportunity because Bledsoe got hurt.
They had David Patten and Marc Edwards ........ who .... uh ...... umm ...... weren't good enough for us. (we had both players in 2000). They had Troy Brown, who was a decent, but hardly spectacular WR prior to that year. They had the perennially up and down Terry Glenn. They brought in Antoine Smith, who had disappointed in Buffalo.
However, somehow Bill Belichick managed to put this conglomeration of has beens and never wases together into a Super Bowl team ...... and started Tom Brady on his way to a Super Bowl career.
Ever wonder who the Patriots drafted at WR high in the drafts to help Tom Brady?
2002: 2nd round, 65 overall, Deion Branch 2003: 2nd round, 45 overall, Bethel Johnson (39 career catches and 606 career yards) 2006: 2nd round, 36 overall, Chad Jackson (14 career catches for 171 yards) 2009: 3rd round, 83 overall, Brandon Tate (24 catches for 432 yards) 2010: 3rd round, 100 overall, Taylor Price (5 career catches for 80 yards)
That's it for the 1st 3 rounds of drafts 2001-2011.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quarterback Ball Velocity at NFL Combine 2008-2012 Posted on March 12, 2012 by ProScoutDan
Brandon Weeden 2012
Ourlads’ Guide to the NFL Draft is the only source that gives the number for the quarterback’s velocity at the NFL Combine. Velocity is measured by a radar gun in miles per hour.
YEAR: 2012
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State 59
Kirk Cousins, Michigan State 59
Austin Davis, Southern Mississippi 58
Nick Foles, Arizona 57
Chandler Harnish, Northern Illinois 57
Jordan Jefferson, LSU 57
Russell Wilson, Wisconsin 55
Casey Keenum, Houston 55
Patrick Witt, Yale 54
Darron Thomas, Oregon 53
Ryan Lindley, San Diego State 52
Kellen Moore, Boise State 52
Jacory Harris, Miami 50
Aaron Corp, Richmond 50
BJ Coleman, Tennessee-Chattanooga Did not throw
Robert Griffin III, Baylor Did not throw
Andrew Luck, Stanford Did not throw
Brock Osweiler, Arizona State Did not throw
Ryan Tannehill, Texas A&M Did not throw
Andy Dalton 2011
YEAR: 2011
Colin Kaepernick, Nevada 59
Ryan Mallett, Arkansas 58
Patrick Devlin, Delaware 56
Andy Dalton, TCU 56
Cam Newton, Auburn 56
Scott Tolzien, Wisconsin 55
Nathan Enderle, Idaho 54
Jake Locker, Washington 54
TJ Yates, North Carolina 52
Christian Ponder, Florida St 51
Ricky Stanzi, Iowa 50
Tyrod Taylor, Va Tech 50
Greg McElroy, Alabama Did not throw
Blaine Gabbert, Missouri Did not throw
John Skelton 2010
YEAR: 2010
Levi Brown, Troy 56
Colt McCoy, Texas 56 (Did not throw at Combine. Throw was recorded at a private workout with a Radar Gun & Computer Chip in Ball.
Max Hall, BYU 52
Tim Hiller, Western Michigan 52
Michael Kafka, Northwestern 52
Zac Robinson, Oklahoma St. 52
Jevan Snead, Mississippi 52
Sean Canfield, Oregon St. 51
Jarrett Brown, West Virginia 50
John Skelton, Fordham 50
Dan LeFevour, Central Michigan 49
Tony Pike, Cincinnati 49
Armanti Edwards, Appalachian St. 46.5
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma Did not throw
Jimmy Clausen,Notre Dame Did not throw
Jonathan Crompton, Tennessee Did not throw
Tim Tebow, Florida Did not throw
Josh Freeman 2009
YEAR: 2009
John Wilson Parker, Alabama 58
Mike Reilly, Central Washington 58
Drew Willy, Buffalo 58
Mark Sanchez, Southern Cal 57
Josh Freeman, Kansas State 57
Chase Daniels, Missouri 57
Nate Davis, Ball State 56
Curtis Painter, Purdue 56
Rhett Bomar, Sam Houston State 55
Tom Brandstetter, Fresno State 53
Cullen Harper, Clemson 53
Stephen McGee, Texas A & M 53
Graham Harrell, Texas Tech 52
Pat White, West Virginia 52
Matt Stafford, Georgia Did not throw
Joe Flacco 2008
YEAR 2008:
Paul Smith, Tulsa 57
Joe Flacco, Delaware 55
Kevin O’Connell, San Diego St 55
Brian Brohm, Louisville 53
Chad Henne, Michigan 53
Erik Ainge, Tennessee 52
John David Booty, Southern Cal 51
Matt Flynn, LSU 50
Josh Johnson, San Diego 49
Colt Brennan, Hawaii 44
Dennis Dixon, Oregon Did not throw
Matt Ryan, Boston College Did not throw
Andre Woodson, Kentucky Did not throw
I was bored(draft can't get here fast enough ) and went back and wanted to see the amount of time it took that 56 yard pass from Colt to Little in the air and try to find a comparison and I came across one with Roethlesberger..Both QB's unloaded it and thought it it would be a good measuring stick because neither were touch throws and both had a clean pocket..just a comparison for fun..take it for what it is worth.
It took the ball going 56 yards in flight from Colt's hand to Greg little 3 seconds in this video at 46 seconds. From the 30 yard line down to the 9 from 49 seconds to 52 seconds in the video Roethlesburger threw a 56 yard pass which took 3 seconds in the air..from the 361/2 yard line to the 71/2 at 6-9 seconds on the video
Done with a stopwatch(yes, really bored) McCoys traveled that distance in 2.67 seconds and Roethlesbergers the same distance in 2.88..
Loyal...you did good...now that is some stuff to think about...FREAKING COLT MCCOY...A 56 ...
...guess that makes the guy a noodle arm in the opinions of some on this board.
I'm not sure if folks remember, McCoy said he played his entire rookie year, not completely recovered from the injury he sustained in the 2010 NCAA Championship game against Bama.
There were people who swore that Charlie Frye didn't get a fair chance with the Browns .....
If McCoy flops again next year, there will be people who will still insist that he just didn't get the chance he should have received, and make tons of excuses about him not getting enough help, even if we spend all 13 picks on offense.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: There were people who swore that Charlie Frye didn't get a fair chance with the Browns .....
If McCoy flops next year, there will be people who will still insist that he just didn't get the chance he should have received, and make tons of excuses about him not getting enough help, even if we spend all 13 picks on offense.
unless 4 of his top 6 OL, his top RB, and his top 2 WR's get injured.... I doubt that.
At the end of the season he will have started 37 games (hopefully) There should be no question if he is the man to lead this team or not.
When was the last time we had a QB that has had 37 starts on our team? A decade ago? Couch? That is a feat into itself.
Get this guy some offensive weapons and a RT and see let's see what he can do.
If Colt can't pull it off, draft a QB high next year. If he fails it's not like we will be drafting past 15, especially with our Division. We can trade picks to draft up next year because we will already have weapons for our new QB that got the jitters out. Plus, next year should be a good QB class and it looks like we will have less teams trading up to get a QB. Probably 2-3 maybe 4 vs 7 or 8 of the teams, depending on how the season goes.
All I really know is it looks like Colt will be given this season.
This is the do or die season. We can't be sitting here next year debating his arm strength or how good he will be with some added weapons.
Can we all agree he needs to get it done this year??
Here is what I do not get from those try to beat a QB down like this (McCoy)...if you are a fan of the game, should you not understand that every successful QB has a competent supporting cast...offensive line and receivers?
That is basic football "common sense"...NFL QBs need a strong supporting cast if they are going to succeed in the Pros.
I look at Eli Manning and think how his Oline protected him and his WRs have turned in some remarkable performances that helped to make Eli look good. Like the circus catch in Super Bowl 42 by David Tyree and this year it was Manningham who made the remarkable catch.
Without that kind of support from the Oline and receivers, Eli Manning would not have the reputation he has today.
Peyton Manning...same thing...he has had a good Oline and top shelf receiving corp since early in his career.
Favre in Green Bay and now Rogers in Green Bay...both had Oline support and outstanding receivers.
One would think that Browns fans would understand our Oline is a work in progress and our receivers, as a group are toward the bottom in the NFL.
I believe most Browns fans agree, both areas (Oline/WR) need improved upon in this offseason (draft/free agency) but we seem to forget how the lack of a dependable Oline and competent receivers were needed by whomever the Browns have at QB.
All the many reasons the Browns offense suffered last season have been pointed out a million times, but especially the fact that the Browns needed to improve the QBs supporting cast...and now...just now, some finally get it.
I look for the Browns to do exactly what they said they would do...draft a QB to compete with McCoy and Wallace. In what round they will draft a QB is the unknown at this point...
...but regardless of whom is playing QB for the Browns, they will not be successful if their supporting cast does not play well.
Football is the ultimate "team sport", with 11 guys needing to do their job on every play if that play is to be successful...the QB is just one of the those 11 on the offense.
All I really know is it looks like Colt will be given this season.
This is the do or die season. We can't be sitting here next year debating his arm strength or how good he will be with some added weapons.
Can we all agree he needs to get it done this year??
It depends on what gets put around him...but ...generally I'd agree that this year is the year to make the ultimate decision.
Now...if we do something silly - like waste a pick by taking a project QB at #4 overall instead of a stud WR/RB/CB - or ignore RT until the 4th Rd (leaving Oniell Cousins as the starter)...then I'd say we probably WON'T know at the end of this year either.
Lastly, even IF we used all 13 picks on offense, those 13 players will STILL be rookies...all 13 of them.
I think the final decision/determination WILL get made at the end of this year. However - like it or not - that determination WILL include an evaluation of how well the players around him performed.
All I really know is it looks like Colt will be given this season.
This is the do or die season. We can't be sitting here next year debating his arm strength or how good he will be with some added weapons.
Can we all agree he needs to get it done this year??
Agreed, completely. I don't think that it gets measured in the Win-Loss column, though... he just needs to show that HE is not the weak link. If he does that, we're set; if not, we're shopping.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Quote: Lastly, even IF we used all 13 picks on offense, those 13 players will STILL be rookies...all 13 of them.
willie...good point...even if the Browns draft help for the Oline and WRs, those guys are still going to be rookies, so don't expect them to play like veterans.
They will play like rookies and they will make rookie mistakes that hurt the offense at times...but they will get better...and better, with experience.
Quote: So you are saying you didn't understand that?...
I'm saying that divining
Quote: I said,, as clearly as I could, based on the final scores of last years games, we'd have won 10 games had we been able to score 21 points.
from
Quote: Believe it or not, 21 points a game last year would have meant a 10-6 record
is a stretch. But if that's what you think you "clearly" said, then so be it. Either way, its an asinine argument, and one that I'm certain nobody here gives any credence to. Adding an arbitrary number of points to our point total in each game and saying, "see, all we had to do is score 'x' more points and we'd be 10-6" means absolutely nothing, because in no real-world scenario is it applicable.
Are you trying to say that the Steelers, Ravens or 49ers, for example, would not have been able to hang another 3-7 points on us if the game was on the line? None of our games against those teams was ever in doubt beyond halftime except for the second Steelers game, where we took a 6-3 lead into halftime and let them come out and score 10 points on their first two second-half possessions. Other than that, the only reason these teams didn't score more than your arbitrary total of 21 points is because there was no need to.
Were you just trying to demonstrate your command of basic mathematics? Because aside from that, what was the point?
It's clear to me,, I guess it's your problem
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
All I really know is it looks like Colt will be given this season.
This is the do or die season. We can't be sitting here next year debating his arm strength or how good he will be with some added weapons.
Can we all agree he needs to get it done this year??
I have no problem with that..Now getting it done means different things to different folks but I know what I personally want to see from him, from the Offensive coaches, from the supporting cast and as a team.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Lastly, even IF we used all 13 picks on offense, those 13 players will STILL be rookies...all 13 of them.
willie...good point...even if the Browns draft help for the Oline and WRs, those guys are still going to be rookies, so don't expect them to play like veterans.
They will play like rookies and they will make rookie mistakes that hurt the offense at times...but they will get better...and better, with experience.
Yep .... the preemptive excuses begin .........
McCoy better look like a real NFL QB this coming year or he is done. Moreover, if we take a QB in the 1st or 2nd round, he better show a lot early, or he'll probably be replaced by game 6 or 7.
He's damn lucky that Washington beat us to RG3, because if they hadn't, McCoy would be replaced, and would probably never start another game in the NFL.
I am trying to figure out what other teams McCoy would start for. The only one I come up with as a possibility is Jacksonville ...... and they have a rookie who put up similarly bad numbers last year already.
McCoy better put it all together and be a force this year, because "pretty good" just isn't going to get it.
The Browns, as a team, are getting better, but so are the other teams in our division. Every team in our division has a more effective QB than we do. If he doesn't at least catch up to 3rd place, then he's done.
If he "leads" us to another 4 or 5 win season, he may take members of the front office with him. These guys were brought in to finally settle the QB position, and it's as far from settled as it was the day they walked in.
Further, I love .... and I mean LOVE how a rookie QB in Cincinnati had his success last season diminished by certain people on the boards because he had AJ Green ... also a rookie, by the way ........ but our rookies won't be able to perform .... because they're rookies? Wow.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I am trying to figure out what other teams McCoy would start for. The only one I come up with as a possibility is Jacksonville ...... and they have a rookie who put up similarly bad numbers last year already.
our FO apparently thinks Seattle as well as we didn't pursue Flynn (and given our cap situation that means they think Colt is at least as good as him)
other teams where an argument could at least be made (though it'd be tough) if the QBs were placed on a nuetral team where draft selection and contract didn't matter:
Seattle, JAX - already mentioned
SF - Colt has proven he can game-manage under Daboll, which is what Alex Smith did last year under Harbaugh. Alex Smith is more known and likely better, but I could see an argument at least.
Arizona - depends on what Kolb does this year, but his career numbers are right in line with Colts so far. A tad better but within margin for error (especially considering he has had DeSean, Maclin, Fitzgerald, etc.).
StL - hey, the whole NFC West. Bradford is likely better and has better tools. However, he hasn't had any more success yet in his career. Again, right in line with Colt.
TB - if Freeman's 2011 is what he is now, then maybe. Still, 2010 showed too much promise to probably be considered here. TBD.
Minnesota - Ponder had ups and downs. For that offense, probably Ponder though.
Oakland - let's just say I don't trust Carson Palmer to ever be good again.
KC - Cassel has had marginally better success but again with better weapons. A case could be made at least.
Jets - nothing that Sanchez has done shows that he is a bunch ahead of Colt. 73 QBrating, 55% comp, 6.5 YPA - career ratings. And, he isn't getting better per attempt over his 3 years (comp% up slightly).
Again, not saying Colt is definitely better than any of those guys. He needs to make progress before that can be said. But, in a nuetral QB competition setting, I think he at least competes with them and can beat a few.
I also think that we should have been trying to replace him this offseason (and wanted Flynn), but now think that our only real options for replacing him are gone and am only willing to use a mid-round pick if we are going to add a middling QB anyway (Foles, Osweiler, and Coleman - last one purely on what others have said).
take the QB's out of the equation..where would you rank the Browns 10 other starters on offense as compared to the rest of the NFL right now? I would rank it at 32. even worse than J-ville. At least they have MJD. The Browns have no one on their offense that you could rank in the Top 10-16 at their position other than Joe Thomas and maybe Alex Mack. Colt has the worst supporting cast of any starting NFL QB right now.
Quote: Here is what I do not get from those try to beat a QB down like this (McCoy)...if you are a fan of the game, should you not understand that every successful QB has a competent supporting cast...
Here's what I do not get from those that try to defend a QB like this (Frye)...if you are a fan of the game, should you not be able to understand what kind of tools a QB has...
McCoy doesn't have Manning's tools. He has to have SOMETHING elite to make up for all the severe deficiencies in his game.
But hey, as you've always said Mac, you trust the Browns FO and will support their decision, and their decision was to throw the farm at Griffin III and dump McCoy. So now you have a decision to make...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Quote: I am trying to figure out what other teams McCoy would start for. The only one I come up with as a possibility is Jacksonville ...... and they have a rookie who put up similarly bad numbers last year already.
our FO apparently thinks Seattle as well as we didn't pursue Flynn (and given our cap situation that means they think Colt is at least as good as him)
other teams where an argument could at least be made (though it'd be tough) if the QBs were placed on a nuetral team where draft selection and contract didn't matter:
Seattle, JAX - already mentioned
SF - Colt has proven he can game-manage under Daboll, which is what Alex Smith did last year under Harbaugh. Alex Smith is more known and likely better, but I could see an argument at least.
Arizona - depends on what Kolb does this year, but his career numbers are right in line with Colts so far. A tad better but within margin for error (especially considering he has had DeSean, Maclin, Fitzgerald, etc.).
StL - hey, the whole NFC West. Bradford is likely better and has better tools. However, he hasn't had any more success yet in his career. Again, right in line with Colt.
TB - if Freeman's 2011 is what he is now, then maybe. Still, 2010 showed too much promise to probably be considered here. TBD.
Minnesota - Ponder had ups and downs. For that offense, probably Ponder though.
Oakland - let's just say I don't trust Carson Palmer to ever be good again.
KC - Cassel has had marginally better success but again with better weapons. A case could be made at least.
Jets - nothing that Sanchez has done shows that he is a bunch ahead of Colt. 73 QBrating, 55% comp, 6.5 YPA - career ratings. And, he isn't getting better per attempt over his 3 years (comp% up slightly).
Again, not saying Colt is definitely better than any of those guys. He needs to make progress before that can be said. But, in a nuetral QB competition setting, I think he at least competes with them and can beat a few.
I also think that we should have been trying to replace him this offseason (and wanted Flynn), but now think that our only real options for replacing him are gone and am only willing to use a mid-round pick if we are going to add a middling QB anyway (Foles, Osweiler, and Coleman - last one purely on what others have said).
Would you be happy with any of those other QB'S?
I wouldn't want any of those guys. We need to fix the Qb position and your post clearly demonstrates that. Unfortunately we won't get it done this year unless McCoy progresses way beyond what most of us think he can. This is the reason I want to trade down for picks in next year's draft. Doesn't have to be a trade down with the #4 pick. We can trade down from #22 if someone in the upper part of round 2 or lower part of round 1 wants to jump up.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Man, my heart aches so badly because of this brutal rebuilding cycle we've been in that I'm more than willing to horse-trade all the way down from 4 to 22 if it means stocking Tue roster with 2-4 extra very high picks. I'm talking going from 4 to 6, then if ee drop down to 14, then even further to around 22.
I'm more than willing to forego the elite talent in this draft so we can gain 2 or even 3 years worth of "catch up" talent.
If that were to happen, we could finally be players in free agency instead of picking through guys that nobody cared about just to fill the roster.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy. Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
Agree completely. And Toad, I think this was Heckert's plan last year with the goal of getting a top Qb in this year's draft. Great idea but we got screwed by several guys going back to college. I think we turn more than one of our picks this year into additional picks next year. Again with the goal of getting us a premier Qb. Hopefully we will be more successful next draft. Even if we aren't we will finally be stocking the cupboard with some "catch up" talent and not the "ketchup" talent of prior management.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Quote: Further, I love .... and I mean LOVE how a rookie QB in Cincinnati had his success last season diminished by certain people on the boards because he had AJ Green ... also a rookie, by the way ........ but our rookies won't be able to perform .... because they're rookies? Wow.
Yeah...because rookie WRs USUALLY perform just like AJ Green...so all offensive rookies that come to Cleveland will be just as effective as AJ Green making Colt a 3rd stringer.
You regularly compare Colt to Manning and Rogers...now you are setting up your argument to compare latest-Browns-WR to AJ Green.
You conveniently forgot to mention that Dalton's other two WRs would be the #1 & #2 WRs on last year's Browns team.
I don't see any discernable difference between Colt and Dalton...and given how much time Flacco has had with a great defense at his back...I don't see anything in Flacco that makes me want him over Colt either.
After failing to swing a deal with St. Louis to acquire the right to draft Robert Griffin III, the Cleveland Browns are "moving forward," as head coach Pat Shurmur put it, with Colt McCoy as their quarterback.
Good for them. They should. But the Browns shouldn't stop there with commitments. They should "move forward" with someone to make McCoy look good, too.
I'm talking about finding offensive playmakers in this year's draft, and that shouldn't be difficult. The Browns have two first-round choices -- the fourth overall and the 22nd. If they know what's best for them, their fans and their starting quarterback, they'll draft legitimate threats to resuscitate the league's 29th-ranked offense and make McCoy and the team play better and win more. More on NFL Related links
Browns have many options with fourth pick Mock drafts: Blackmon or Richardson at No. 4? Latest signings: Free-agent tracker
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That, of course, means just saying, "No," to persons pushing quarterback Ryan Tannehill with the fourth overall pick. They want to flush McCoy, convinced that Tannehill is better and that McCoy can't play at this level, but I don't know how anyone comes to that conclusion.
Not yet, I don't.
Frustrated Browns' fans tell me McCoy is overmatched and has no future, and maybe they're right. But, based on what he has for running backs and receivers, how does anyone know? I mean, let's be honest: The people around him aren't very good.
Yeah, there was running back Peyton Hillis in 2010, but that's about it. Don't tell me about Josh Cribbs because he's a special-teams star who also happens to play wide receiver. I don't want to hear about Greg Little, either. The guy isn't a No. 1 receiver.
Ask people to name the best player on this offense, and they'll tell you it's Joe Thomas. And it is. But he's the left tackle. He's not someone catching passes or taking handoffs from the quarterback.
And that's a problem.
Maybe Colt McCoy isn't the answer, but the Browns never made an effort to find out. They surrounded him with ordinary players at wide receiver and running back and hoped he somehow could make them better. It didn't happen, and now fans want another quarterback.
I have another idea: Find better running backs and receivers first. And maybe you find a better quarterback while you're at it.
"At this point," Shurmur said at last week's NFL owners' meetings, "Colt is our quarterback. I've said it all along: We're looking forward to him getting better and being our guy."
He cautioned that there are no guarantees, and there shouldn't be. McCoy has as many interceptions in his career (20) as touchdowns, a 6-15 record and lukewarm support within the Browns' organization. All that could change, of course, if the Browns started to surround him with playmakers, and that's why they invented the draft, folks.
Look, I don't know what McCoy can't do, but I know what he can. I saw it when I watched him in successive games in 2010 vs. New England and the New York Jets. He and the Browns destroyed the Patriots one week -- one of only two New England losses that season -- then rallied to take the Jets into overtime, with McCoy driving the Browns 59 yards at the end of regulation to tie things up with a touchdown pass.
That Colt McCoy energized Cleveland. Last year's Colt McCoy sedated it. So now we're writing him off? C'mon. Before banishing the guy to the bench, how about giving him a chance to succeed? How about surrounding him with something more than average talent? At least then you have an accurate barometer.
I saw what happened when his most reliable receivers were Ben Watson and Evan Moore, and it was impressive. I also saw what he did in preseason last year under a first-year head coach, and that was promising, too. What wasn't was everything after that, with the Browns failing to produce more than 14 points in 10 of their last 13 regular-season starts and finishing behind only St. Louis in scoring.
McCoy ranked 27th among the league's quarterbacks and next to last in yards per attempt. His best rusher ranked 36th. The Browns had a league-low four touchdowns rushing. No receiver averaged more than 12.6 yards per reception, and their wideouts led the league in drops.
Oh, yeah, Cleveland also lost nine of its last 10.
Trust me, Ryan Tannehill isn't the solution. But Trent Richardson could be. Same goes for Justin Blackmon. Or Kendall Wright, Michael Floyd or Stephen Hill ... someone, anyone, who can make catches, make yards and make this offense into something other than a still life. Granted, McCoy isn't Tom Brady, but Tom Brady may be the only guy who could win with this supporting cast.
A year ago Cincinnati demonstrated how to run a draft when it gained its franchise quarterback and franchise wide receiver in the first two rounds. That was smart, with the move propelling the Bengals into the playoffs and setting them up for years.
The Browns are nowhere near the playoffs. In fact, they made them once since returning to the NFL, and that was back in 2002. McCoy may not be the quarterback to get them there, but nobody will know until he has weapons to work with -- and I'm waiting.
Colt McCoy is a quarterback with glimpses of promise and a multitude of unanswered questions. So let's answer them now. Do what's best for the Cleveland Browns and Colt McCoy, and don't just push forward with him; push forward with offensive playmakers to make him ... and the Cleveland Browns ... what they haven't been.
Successful.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright, Doug Martin, Brandon Brooks, and Andrew Datko. That would make the offense much, much better. Probably even watchable.
Quote: Justin Blackmon, Kendall Wright, Doug Martin, Brandon Brooks, and Andrew Datko. That would make the offense much, much better. Probably even watchable.
I could go for Justin Blackmon, Stephen Hill, Doug Martin, James Brown (I Feel Good), and Nate Potter.
Of course, I'd prefer: David DeCastro, Stephen Hill, Doug Martin, Nate Potter & Ryan Broyles.
That article says it a couple times, get players to help McCoy look better, and surrounded McCoy with ordinary players. It's time to hold McCoy accountable, because nobody's going to look any good if he can't be a better quarterback.
I don't know how one can expect him to get major improvement from last year until this when he didn't get improvement from weeks 2 and 3 where he played his best last year, until the end of the season.
I can't understand how they could go another year with Colt McCoy, when they have a whole year to do Anything else to challenge him to perform better. He just can't get the ball where it needs to be.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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) and went back and wanted to see the amount of time it took that 56 yard pass from Colt to Little in the air and try to find a comparison and I came across one with Roethlesberger..Both QB's unloaded it and thought it it would be a good measuring stick because neither were touch throws and both had a clean pocket..just a comparison for fun..take it for what it is worth.
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Wow.
