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Hillis faced 8 in the box constantly. How much more help does Colt need from the RB position?
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Hillis faced 8 in the box constantly. How much more help does Colt need from the RB position?
Perhaps more than a few games?
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I keep hearing about value this and value that.. and it's really funny,, I don't remember hearing a sitting GM or Coach talk in such terms..
I do however hear tons of guys in the media use that term,,I hear former execs like Casserly using that term. Alleged draft gurus use it constantly. same with guys in fantasy football and of course on message boards..
Wonder why that is....
Personally, I think value is where you find it. you like Richardson at 4, Take him.. If you can drop a couple of spots, add some picks and still get the guy you want, do it.
Value is a funny thing
In the end, if you take a Richardson and he's able to add a dimension to the team that takes it further along, then I'd say he's pretty valuable....
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I keep hearing about value this and value that.. and it's really funny,, I don't remember hearing a sitting GM or Coach talk in such terms..
I do however hear tons of guys in the media use that term,,I hear former execs like Casserly using that term. Alleged draft gurus use it constantly. same with guys in fantasy football and of course on message boards..
Wonder why that is....
Personally, I think value is where you find it. you like Richardson at 4, Take him.. If you can drop a couple of spots, add some picks and still get the guy you want, do it.
Value is a funny thing
In the end, if you take a Richardson and he's able to add a dimension to the team that takes it further along, then I'd say he's pretty valuable....
If you don't understand that concept, then it's because you don't fully understand the Draft.
It's not a new trend or thing, but values of position can change, just as this League has changed.
The higher your Draft pick is the higher the value of that selection ... That should be obvious.
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Well, Arch beat me to it. Even when he was in there, he looked slow & playing like he was hurt or not at full power. I respect your thoughts, but I'm not ready to cast Colt off to the side. Although, in the end we'll probably be moving on.
You and Toad have been pretty much dead on, but I'll just wait & see.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Quote:
Quote:
I keep hearing about value this and value that.. and it's really funny,, I don't remember hearing a sitting GM or Coach talk in such terms..
I do however hear tons of guys in the media use that term,,I hear former execs like Casserly using that term. Alleged draft gurus use it constantly. same with guys in fantasy football and of course on message boards..
Wonder why that is....
Personally, I think value is where you find it. you like Richardson at 4, Take him.. If you can drop a couple of spots, add some picks and still get the guy you want, do it.
Value is a funny thing
In the end, if you take a Richardson and he's able to add a dimension to the team that takes it further along, then I'd say he's pretty valuable....
If you don't understand that concept, then it's because you don't fully understand the Draft.
It's not a new trend or thing, but values of position can change, just as this League has changed.
The higher your Draft pick is the higher the value of that selection ... That should be obvious.
that last part is a no brainer, I get it. But when people say that Richardson won't be a value pick at 4, that makes absolutly no sense to me.
I also get the concept that if you take a guy in the 6th round and he ends up quarterbacking your team to 5 superbowls winning three of them, then you really got some serious value.. But thats after the fact, not before hand...
Again, I admit that I'm no draft Guru,
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It is positional value. RB used to have the same value of QB and pass rushing defensive linemen. Now they have the value of a guard and center. When teams with horrible run games are winning super bowls, RB value is going to drop. Also few teams really desire to have the one great back, it is RB by commitee with your Big back short yardage guy, your speedy scat back and your 1st down all purpose type back.
Right now I would say it kinda goes like this
1. QB
2. Pass rushing DE
3. LT
4. CB
5. DT
6. WR
7. FS
8. RB
9. RT
10. LB
12. SS
13. C
14. Guard
15. Waterboy
16. Cheerleader
17. Kickers and Punter
I forgot TE but right now it is probably more valuable than RB.
Last edited by Mourgrym; 04/02/12 07:14 PM.
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There is no way to make an accurate list like that. All teams have different needs, philosophies, schemes, etc.
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It is positional value. RB used to have the same value of QB and pass rushing defensive linemen. Now they have the value of a guard and center. When teams with horrible run games are winning super bowls, RB value is going to drop. Also few teams really desire to have the one great back, it is RB by commitee with your Big back short yardage guy, your speedy scat back and your 1st down all purpose type back.
Right now I would say it kinda goes like this
1. QB
2. Pass rushing DE
3. LT
4. CB
5. DT
6. WR
7. FS
8. RB
9. RT
10. LB
12. SS
13. C
14. Guard
15. Waterboy
16. Cheerleader
17. Kickers and Punter
I forgot TE but right now it is probably more valuable than RB.
OK,, that I get,, but why is it that way? Because it's a copycat league and everyone follows the latest fad.
What happens if we go out, Get Richardson, he runs for 1700 yards, blocks very effectively, catches 30 balls for 300 yards..
Will that change the value chart next year?
PS: I'd put Cheerleader ahead of Waterboy 
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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Is that a generic list, or a Browns specific list? The reason I ask is because I think that might be true for a 3-4 team ..... but not a 4-3 team. I think that DT is far, far more important to a 4-3 team. I know that it is to Heckert, because he has said so. He would take a DT in the 1st, but he has said that he feels that he can find high quality pass rushing DE in the later rounds. Of course, while a 3-4 team would love a pass rushing DE, they are more likely to desire a pass rushing OLB. In fact, a 3-4 team would value LB more than DL. For the Browns, I would guess that the list would go something like this, and of course this would be with all things being equal, which they never are: 1st round values: QB, DT, CB, LT Late 1st/2nd round values: WR, RB, RT 2nd round values: DE, MLB, S 3rd on ...... G, C, TE, OLB This is not to say that a special talent can't jump a round .... like for instance, he may not want to take a DE in the first ...... but if he had a Reggie White type player available, he would. Similarly with WR, RT, and RB. I think that he likes to look for value in the late 1st and 2nd rounds at these positions, but that he would make an exception in the first for a special player. I see almost no way that Heckert would take a G, C, TE, or OLB in the first round. I don't think that he places that value on those positions, and that he does feel that he can find quality deeper in the draft. I think that Guard would have to be Steve Hutchinson caliber. If we draft a cheerleader, she better be hot. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It was just a generic list. Something for a little discussion.
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I don't think there is a way to have a generic list as there are too many different factors that come into play.
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I don't think there is a way to have a generic list as there are too many different factors that come into play.
Apparently there is because I just made one lol
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Right. Anyone can make a list. Whether or not it actually means anything is what is important.
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Thanks Mourg, Basically RB's are not worth that high of a selection for what you get out of them today. The running game is important, but you don't have to have an all pro RB to be successful. You need them to help keep your offense on schedule and keep the defense somewhat honest. also their careers are somewhat shorter overall. It's the exception and not the rule to find QB's LT, DT's and such later in the draft process. Not so much with RB's ... A RB I wanted to Draft last year was Kendall Hunter [9er's] Round: 4 / Pick: 115 We take him over FB Owen Marecic Round: 4 / Pick: 124 and we are not having this discussion. Hunter wasn't my top RB or even the one I liked the most, that was Stevan Ridley [Steelers] Round: 3 / Pick: 73 Another question is Richardson going to do anything that Hillis could not do for us when healthy? That selection keeps us idle and keeps us one dimensional on offense. I personally like Hillis's hands better, neither have elite feet in the hole, both are a load to tackle and Hillis probably more so. We can't keep shooting Two's when the other teams are raining down Three's on us. The name of the game is score more points. 
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neither have elite feet in the hole
I don't know if that is true.
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Heck my favorite backs after Richardson are mostly considered the 3rd tier of backs with guys like Turbin, James and Pierce.
Lamichael James is a freakish athlete with his hands and speed and power. Then Tubin well he is super freak. the dude looks bigger than Hillis with those nimble feet.
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neither have elite feet in the hole
I don't know if that is true.
You don't!
Jamal Lewis had better feet in the hole, then either Hillis or Richasrdson 
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Heck my favorite backs after Richardson are mostly considered the 3rd tier of backs with guys like Turbin, James and Pierce.
Lamichael James is a freakish athlete with his hands and speed and power. Then Tubin well he is super freak. the dude looks bigger than Hillis with those nimble feet.
This years Draft is pretty deep at RB, but my point was that last year was considered to be a weaker RB class and I could have found two after the 2nd round. There isn't a whole lot of projection with RB's.
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Let's just say the Vikings take Blackmon at 3..
Do we get Richardson or Kalil?
I'm thinking we still go Richardson.. should u get a RT at 4?
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Richardson over Kalil, I don't go RT at 4. But in that scenario, we can move down so someone can get Kalil
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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Kalil falls to us we will Roethlisburger someone.
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We're pretty similar. I'd flip 2-3. And Heckert agrees with me there.
WR used to be low but that isn't the case today. Rule changes have made it so.
And for those who disagree completely just look at the positions drafted in round 1 coupled with the size of contracts given to each position in free agency.
GMs aren't talking about it but they're acting in a way for all to see if they want to.
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Quote:
Let's just say the Vikings take Blackmon at 3..
Do we get Richardson or Kalil?
I'm thinking we still go Richardson.. should u get a RT at 4?
If Kalil is there then I'm looking to trade down. I have no doubt that he will be in high demand and if the Rams covet him they will have to make an offer to trump another teams offer.
Kalil would allow them to move Rodger Saffold to the RT.
Giving them two good young anchors to grow with their young QB.
Fisher is an old school Coach (Captain Cave Man type) and he will build an OL and have a running game before he looks for a WR, just ask any Titan fan.
Like us it was only a pipe dream to have a top go to WR go to them in the Draft.
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We're pretty similar. I'd flip 2-3. And Heckert agrees with me there.
WR used to be low but that isn't the case today. Rule changes have made it so.
And for those who disagree completely just look at the positions drafted in round 1 coupled with the size of contracts given to each position in free agency.
GMs aren't talking about it but they're acting in a way for all to see if they want to.
Well said ... FA WR's went like hot cakes.
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Kalil falls to us we will Roethlisburger someone.
Nice pass
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Quote:
Another question is Richardson going to do anything that Hillis could not do for us when healthy?
#1. Hillis was not a threat to go the distance everytime he touched the ball TR is.
#2. TR can get around the corner and go, PH could get around the corner but did not have the second gear to pull away.
#3. It's all about playmakers and homerun hitters. PH could be a playmaker at times, but seldom a homerun hitter
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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Another question is Richardson going to do anything that Hillis could not do for us when healthy?
#1. Hillis was not a threat to go the distance everytime he touched the ball TR is.
#2. TR can get around the corner and go, PH could get around the corner but did not have the second gear to pull away.
#3. It's all about playmakers and homerun hitters. PH could be a playmaker at times, but seldom a homerun hitter
I don't agree that he will have "home run" speed at this level.
I see him being more effective between the tackles North and South
Bamma's OL needs some of that credit for what their backs do to College teams.
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Ok, I think credit goes to both OL's. Based on all around talent, I think it goes to TR. You asked & I answered the best I could. We might go any direction & I'm ok with that, I'm a Browns fan first, not a fan of players so much. TR seems to be the most gifted and thats why I want him on our Team.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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#GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Ok, I think credit goes to both OL's. Based on all around talent, I think it goes to TR. You asked & I answered the best I could. We might go any direction & I'm ok with that, I'm a Browns fan first, not a fan of players so much. TR seems to be the most gifted and thats why I want him on our Team.
He is still a RB.
He should be a good one too, but I just think that we can improve the team more with other positions then RB with that high of a selection.
Folks forget that when the Vikings drafted AP that they thought that they where but a few key players away from challenging for the SB.
He went 7th. < not top 5
McFadden went # 4, but you have to also consider the source was Al Davis and imo he was drafted too high.
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If I bring Tannehill in and he doesn't wow me. I trade down and build my base this year while adding some buying power for next year. I like Richardson but I just ain't prepared to take him that high. I am not a Blackmon fan and although I really like Claiborne, trading down will help us get this going going faster than adding 1 corner.
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If I bring Tannehill in and he doesn't wow me. I trade down and build my base this year while adding some buying power for next year. I like Richardson but I just ain't prepared to take him that high. I am not a Blackmon fan and although I really like Claiborne, trading down will help us get this going going faster than adding 1 corner.
I'm okay with a trade down scenario and still taking any one of those 3 prospects.
I just hope that before I die that I get to see a good team with great talent at the QB and WR positions.
I think Blackmon is a special talent on the lines of a Sterling Sharp and I like Floyd too, but after that I'm not so impressed with the rest as far as being go to guys.
I know it's a pipe dream to think that I will ever see a special talent at the WR position play for the good guys, but I keep dreaming anyway *sigh*
Paul Warfield played when I was still very young.
I've Not seen one like him in the Brown and Orange since.
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Quote:
It is positional value. RB used to have the same value of QB and pass rushing defensive linemen. Now they have the value of a guard and center. When teams with horrible run games are winning super bowls, RB value is going to drop. Also few teams really desire to have the one great back, it is RB by commitee with your Big back short yardage guy, your speedy scat back and your 1st down all purpose type back.
Right now I would say it kinda goes like this
1. QB
2. Pass rushing DE
3. LT
4. CB
5. DT
6. WR
7. FS
8. RB
9. RT
10. LB
12. SS
13. C
14. Guard
15. Waterboy
16. Cheerleader
17. Kickers and Punter
I forgot TE but right now it is probably more valuable than RB.
OK,, that I get,, but why is it that way? Because it's a copycat league and everyone follows the latest fad.
What happens if we go out, Get Richardson, he runs for 1700 yards, blocks very effectively, catches 30 balls for 300 yards..
Will that change the value chart next year?
PS: I'd put Cheerleader ahead of Waterboy
Would you draft a punter with a first round pick?
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I believe we already have a potential great receiver on this roster in Little. The kid was converted from RB to WR in 2009. Did not play in 2010. No offseason to work on those receiving skills. He comes in and just continued to beat out guys.
At times the kid flashed MONSTER ability. Upgrade at QB, more effective run game and this kid is going to be a star in this league.
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I believe we already have a potential great receiver on this roster in Little. The kid was converted from RB to WR in 2009. Did not play in 2010. No offseason to work on those receiving skills. He comes in and just continued to beat out guys.
At times the kid flashed MONSTER ability. Upgrade at QB, more effective run game and this kid is going to be a star in this league.
I like Little, I really do, but I see him as more of an underneath receiver, one that can be more effective with a home run hitter running opposite him.
He's Taylor and we 'still' need our Rice.
What's Taylor without Rice?
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 04/02/12 09:54 PM.
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I believe we already have a potential great receiver on this roster in Little. The kid was converted from RB to WR in 2009. Did not play in 2010. No offseason to work on those receiving skills. He comes in and just continued to beat out guys.
At times the kid flashed MONSTER ability. Upgrade at QB, more effective run game and this kid is going to be a star in this league.
I like Little, I really do, but I see him as more of an underneath receiver, one that can be more effective with a home run hitter running opposite him.
He's Taylor and we 'still' need our Rice.
What's Taylor without Rice?
I agree and he can be a very effective underneath receiver if he can consistently catch the ball. Considering there are no upgrades to be had at QB this year I think the best way to help McCoy would be to go with Richardson and a receiver at 22 or a Blackmon and a RB further down with a RT in there somewhere.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Actually the one guy in this draft that reminds me of Rice is Mohamed Sanu. He isn't all that fast but they never seem to catch him. Just seems like he does everything without any real effort. He is really fluid through his routes, no wasted motion.
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I believe we already have a potential great receiver on this roster in Little. The kid was converted from RB to WR in 2009. Did not play in 2010. No offseason to work on those receiving skills. He comes in and just continued to beat out guys.
At times the kid flashed MONSTER ability. Upgrade at QB, more effective run game and this kid is going to be a star in this league.
I feel a better protected QB with a homerun hitter on the opposite side with bring out the best in Little. I still see him as a project WR with great athleticism. 
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Considering there are no upgrades to be had at QB this year I think the best way to help McCoy would be to go with Richardson and a receiver at 22 or a Blackmon and a RB further down with a RT in there somewhere.
I believe there is a huge upgrade available at 4 and the best way to help Colt is to give him free membership at the Coaching clinic. His future is in coaching not playing.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,660 Likes: 87 |
Quote:
Actually the one guy in this draft that reminds me of Rice is Mohamed Sanu. He isn't all that fast but they never seem to catch him. Just seems like he does everything without any real effort. He is really fluid through his routes, no wasted motion.
I actually like him behind Blackmon and Floyd.
22 is where I have a RT targeted ... Martin has fallen some and that's because he is being looked at as a RT and not Left. That's not uncommon for a RT prospect who was a LT to fall some in the Draft for obvious reasons.
The 4th pick I think will determine the 37th more so I'm thinking.
If we go Tannehille, then I would hope for Sanu at 37 with 
If we go WR, then I would look for us to take Weeden at 37.
We can find a good RB after the 2nd round to add to the mix there.
To me it comes down to the best combinations.
Selecting Richardson or Claiborne with our first pick means that one of the other 3 positions QB, RT and WR will have to come after the 37th selection. I don't like our odds with that scenario.
Last edited by FL_Dawg; 04/02/12 10:35 PM.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Richardson’s talent too great to
pass up
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