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I have been thinking about this while listening to all of the talking heads talking about the Browns options at 4, and the desirability of the pick ...... and the Rams may have screwed up by trading with the Redskins and not us if they want to build their team through the draft.
Why do I say this? Simple.
Everyone is talking about how the Browns are currently the key to the whole draft sitting at #4. While the #4 pick will not bring a bounty like the #2 pick did, it looks as though it will be valuable nonetheless. People are talking about teams from the Rams and Dolpnins, all the way down to the Seahawks possibly being interested in the pick.
The Rams need quality players, and a lot of them. Think about this for a minute ......
The Rams could have taken the Browns trade. They then could either have stayed still and had their choice of either Blackmon or Kalil ...... or they could have traded down with the Dolphins ..... Seahawks, or maybe even a different team who might want a CB, WR, RB, or QB will probably be willing to trade up.
The Rams could have stacked their drafts even more for years to come. However, with a 2 step trade down, they probably could have added yet another 1st round pick, that they have now lost forever. (Plus whatever they lose if they do move up to #4 in a trade) They could have added more picks, and more quality picks to an already impressive haul.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Yeah, imagine if he would have said to the Browns, "We have 3 first round picks and a 2nd" ..... and the Browns said "We'll match that with better picks ....."
Then the Rams could have had 4 and 37 this year, plus a pair of #1s in the future. At 4 they would have then had all kinds of options, including being there already if they wanted to take a guy at 4.
Crazy.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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There is one team that can throw a monkey wrench into this whole process; the Vikings.
They can decide to trade down and then they control everything. I guess teams that covet Claiborne would still be willing to trade up, but I just don't see a team trading up for Claiborne when there a few other pretty good alternatives.
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If the Vikings trade their pick, the worst thing that can happen is for someone to trade up for Kalil ... which is a zero sum gain. If someone trades to 3 for Blackmon, then the 4 has value for Claiborne, Kalil, and Richardson. (and maybe Tannehill, but I still don't see him going before the middle of the 1st round, and a fall to 22 would not stun me)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yes, but also keep in mind the Rams might have done us a favor in NOT accepting our Trade, a trade like that is very risky, Were not in any postion right now to trade 4-5 players for one to me we have way to many holes to fill, This is what a team who is a player or two away from contending for a title does, not one like us that has stunk for a decade...
To me if the Browns would have made this trade or draft a QB in the first 3 round, I will lose all faith in this FO
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I agree that the Rams possibly fell too far to get either Kalil or Blackmon, perhaps not, but they have so many options with their draft picks the next couple of years that I think they can go with their BPA and still come out smelling like a rose.
I've given this some thought and I have concluded that end the end they probably still have the option of one of the following prospects.
Blackmon, Claiborne or Richardson. Sounds awful familiar right.
I have them going with Richardson (BPA) at 6 in my latest 1st round mock.
He fits Fishers throwback style and Jackson has over 2,100 carries already in his career, so he will need to be replaced sooner or later.
Fisher was always criticized by the fans in Tennessee for not selecting WR's high in the Draft, but he is not a Coach to ignor his OL and I think that this will be a priority too, however I think that they have traded out of position to take Kalil barring any further trades in the top 5.
They could go for Rieff at 6, but I think that could be a tad high for him.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/FL_Dawg/Logo5_1.gif)
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Quote:
If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
I've heard reports that the Browns offer was more potent than the Redskins because of two firsts this year, but that the Rams wanted the extra firsts in following years, not this years drafts.
In logical terms, the reported firsts that the Browns offered was more than the Redskins but the Rams FO wanted them over an additional year.
And, I'm glad they did. I didn't want RG3 anyway.
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Shortly after information of the trade became public when Holmgren talked about the Browns trying to move up, I pointed out that the Rams just screwed themselves by accepting the Redskins offer and not ours.
The Rams could have traded with the Browns and still been in great position to land Justin Blackmon.
Now the Rams set at #6 and are trying to make nice with the Browns, claiming all is good and they do consider the Browns as possible trading partners.
I figure the Rams are trying very hard to move to the Vikings #3 slot, rather than deal with the Browns.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
I agree 100%. My take on it when it happened was that I thought it was a good business move for the Rams to stick to their word, but it was a stupid business move to ever take that approach. As I've said in other threads, it's similar to buying a car. I expect to bargain, even if the guy says he's not going to.
I think that a lot of this assumes, though, that the Rams want Blackmon. It's a little hard to stomach that the Rams thought they could get to 6 and it's a guarantee that Blackmon is sitting there. They had to think that we might pick him, or some other team might trade up for him (since everyone thinks he's the Rams' pick).
I guess we'll find out draft day.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Quote:
If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
Which I think is total BS. The fact that they're even considering trading up to 4 for anyone says that the better offer would have been to take our picks. They know it will take more than the Redskins' 2nd rounder to move back up.
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Quote:
Yes, but also keep in mind the Rams might have done us a favor in NOT accepting our Trade, a trade like that is very risky, Were not in any postion right now to trade 4-5 players for one to me we have way to many holes to fill, This is what a team who is a player or two away from contending for a title does, not one like us that has stunk for a decade...
To me if the Browns would have made this trade or draft a QB in the first 3 round, I will lose all faith in this FO
I disagree. A franchise quality QB jump starts the development of a team. However that's a debate for another thread.
My point on this thread was, if the Rams really want the #4 pick, they could have had it without any need to make further move just by being a little smarter. They could have had the #4, plus a bounty of picks instead of now having to trade back up to #4 (if they do really want it) and winding up with a bounty minus whatever they now have to trade to get back there.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Quote:
If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
Which I think is total BS. The fact that they're even considering trading up to 4 for anyone says that the better offer would have been to take our picks. They know it will take more than the Redskins' 2nd rounder to move back up.
So the Rams 2nd rounder than? 
Seriously, what's the overall thought if we drop from 4 to 6 for say a 2nd this year an a 4 or something next year..?
Is it "worth it" ?
This could be a roller coaster Draft Day for Browns fans..
"Whoo we traded back!"
"That's all we got?"
"I guess that's enough..."
"Wait we took him?!"
"Ok that makes sense I guess.."
"..Now what!"
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
Which I think is total BS. The fact that they're even considering trading up to 4 for anyone says that the better offer would have been to take our picks. They know it will take more than the Redskins' 2nd rounder to move back up.
So the Rams 2nd rounder than?
Seriously, what's the overall thought if we drop from 4 to 6 for say a 2nd this year an a 4 or something next year..?
Is it "worth it" ?
This could be a roller coaster Draft Day for Browns fans..
"Whoo we traded back!"
"That's all we got?"
"I guess that's enough..."
"Wait we took him?!"
"Ok that makes sense I guess.."
"..Now what!"
A second and a fourth aren't going to be enough for the Rams to move up and it's their own deal with the Redskins that set the price tag.
They acquired 2 additional first round picks (plus the 6th overall) and a 2nd rounder this year to move back 4 spots. To move back up 2 of those spots, it's logical to think that it would take at least half that value (don't cite draft value charts - those don't apply here). So, with that in mind, it would seem to at least take 2 second rounders and a 3rd rounder. With the Rams and the seeming slighting of the Browns by the Rams, it makes sense that the Browns might demand a little more from the Rams. I suspect that the Browns would demand both of the second rounders this year plus second rounders over the next two seasons to move back just two spots. Yeah, if it were me, then the Rams would have to dole out four second rounders (2 this year, and one each in the following 2 seasons) for them to move up to the 4th pick. I'm not asking them to give up their acquired goodies other than the 2nd rounder they got from Washington. They would get to keep their first round picks that they got from Washington.
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I would like a trade back if it looked something like this:
Rams get:
1st round, 4th overall
Browns 5th (or 6th) round pick.
Browns get:
#1st round, 6th overall.
2nd round, 39th overall. (from Redskins)
2013 4th round pick
This would give us value, plus would add a pick to next year's draft. Adding more picks to this year really makes little sense, as 14 or more drafted players are not going to make this team. This would give us value for the pick, and also added value in next year's draft.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I suspect that the Browns would demand both of the second rounders this year plus second rounders over the next two seasons to move back just two spots. Yeah, if it were me, then the Rams would have to dole out four second rounders (2 this year, and one each in the following 2 seasons) for them to move up to the 4th pick.
This is not serious, right?
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While I understand the angst against the Rams, I don't think you let that cloud your judgment if you can get a deal done that will help the team.
I'd hate to see us miss out on adding good picks just because we're trying to gouge them out of spite.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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While I understand the angst against the Rams, I don't think you let that cloud your judgment if you can get a deal done that will help the team.
I'd hate to see us miss out on adding good picks just because we're trying to gouge them out of spite.
What if we both like the same guy?
Do you say no or do you let them over bid and way your other options?
Because if we are looking at the same guy, then the ball is in their court to make an offer that we can not refuse.
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That's a different story. If we make them pay to make up for them getting the guy we really like, then fine. Now, in order to move me from taking the guy I want, you'd better be ready to pay a king's ransom.
I was just speaking to asking for the moon just because we're mad at the Rams.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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That's a different story. If we make them pay to make up for them getting the guy we really like, then fine. Now, in order to move me from taking the guy I want, you'd better be ready to pay a king's ransom.
I was just speaking to asking for the moon just because we're mad at the Rams.
I understand, but that's just silly talk by some disgruntled fans.
I have a strong feeling that we also like whom they like, but we might be persuaded to trade the rights to that player and still get someone we like at 6, but the ball would be in their court to pursued us to do so.
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Quote:
This could be a roller coaster Draft Day for Browns fans..
"Whoo we traded back!"
"That's all we got?"
"I guess that's enough..."
"Wait we took him?!"
"Ok that makes sense I guess.."
"..Now what!"
That sounds like every draft day. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
I would like a trade back if it looked something like this:
Rams get:
1st round, 4th overall
Browns 5th (or 6th) round pick.
Browns get:
#1st round, 6th overall.
2nd round, 39th overall. (from Redskins)
2013 4th round pick
This would give us value, plus would add a pick to next year's draft. Adding more picks to this year really makes little sense, as 14 or more drafted players are not going to make this team. This would give us value for the pick, and also added value in next year's draft.
I would be absolutely ecstatic if we could move back just two spots and pick up another 2nd rounder this year!
Heck, depending on what we could get... I'd then be open to the idea of trading down a second time to perhaps the 12-15 range. Yes, we'd lose out on all of the upper tier guys we've discussed all offseason, but we'd REALLY be able to load up on some talent at several positions as a result.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
I would like a trade back if it looked something like this:
Rams get:
1st round, 4th overall
Browns 5th (or 6th) round pick.
Browns get:
#1st round, 6th overall.
2nd round, 39th overall. (from Redskins)
2013 4th round pick
This would give us value, plus would add a pick to next year's draft. Adding more picks to this year really makes little sense, as 14 or more drafted players are not going to make this team. This would give us value for the pick, and also added value in next year's draft.
I would be absolutely ecstatic if we could move back just two spots and pick up another 2nd rounder this year!
Heck, depending on what we could get... I'd then be open to the idea of trading down a second time to perhaps the 12-15 range. Yes, we'd lose out on all of the upper tier guys we've discussed all offseason, but we'd REALLY be able to load up on some talent at several positions as a result.
All we need is a 1,2,3 QB scenario to unfold at the top of the Draft.
The Vikings will need to trade their 3 selection to a team looking to draft Tannehill ... Kalil falls to us at 4 and the Rams will come calling.
TB will take either Claiborne or Richardson. We will have the choice of Blackmon and whomever the Bucs pass on at 6.
Not a bad deal there at all 
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Quote:
Quote:
If the original report is to be believed, the Rams' Les Snead told the teams to make their best offer first, then based on something akin to honor, he would take that offer and never look back.
If true, that was a short-sighted thing to do then, and it's potentially an even dumber thing to have done looking back at it now.
I bet the fans of the Rams aren't going to be trumpeting Snead's virtue anytime soon...
I've heard reports that the Browns offer was more potent than the Redskins because of two firsts this year, but that the Rams wanted the extra firsts in following years, not this years drafts.
In logical terms, the reported firsts that the Browns offered was more than the Redskins but the Rams FO wanted them over an additional year.
And, I'm glad they did. I didn't want RG3 anyway.
Which really doesn't make too much sense. You have to always think that you might not be here two years from now so how will those picks help you next year???
With the whole "Picks spread out" explanation and the "Make your best offer" a month and half before the draft, it defiantly makes me feel there was some deal in place to give the redskins the pick.
![[Linked Image from mypsn.eu.playstation.com]](http://mypsn.eu.playstation.com/psn/profile/Letherface.png)
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I would like a trade back if it looked something like this:
Rams get:
1st round, 4th overall
Browns 5th (or 6th) round pick.
Browns get:
#1st round, 6th overall.
2nd round, 39th overall. (from Redskins)
2013 4th round pick
This would give us value, plus would add a pick to next year's draft. Adding more picks to this year really makes little sense, as 14 or more drafted players are not going to make this team. This would give us value for the pick, and also added value in next year's draft.
I would be absolutely ecstatic if we could move back just two spots and pick up another 2nd rounder this year!
Heck, depending on what we could get... I'd then be open to the idea of trading down a second time to perhaps the 12-15 range. Yes, we'd lose out on all of the upper tier guys we've discussed all offseason, but we'd REALLY be able to load up on some talent at several positions as a result.
All we need is a 1,2,3 QB scenario to unfold at the top of the Draft.
The Vikings will need to trade their 3 selection to a team looking to draft Tannehill ... Kalil falls to us at 4 and the Rams will come calling.
TB will take either Claiborne or Richardson. We will have the choice of Blackmon and whomever the Bucs pass on at 6.
Not a bad deal there at all
and loctus may as well start falling from the sky because that is not going to happen.
we could never imagine to be THAT lucky 
Meh.
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All Pro
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I would be absolutely ecstatic if we could move back just two spots and pick up another 2nd rounder this year...
...but we'd REALLY be able to load up on some talent at several positions as a result.
That's what we did last year... now it is time to collect.
If the rams want a trade... they gotta give up a first. They wanted 3 1st n some change to move up 2 spots... I'll take #6 next years 1st and 2nd this year for them to move up 2 spots
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I really don't see the Rams trying to move up for any one player...they already had a spot to take any player not named Luck in the entire draft...and felt quantity was more important.....If you cant find someone you like at 6 then you really need someone else at the helm of your organization.
Everything I read or hear is its the Vikes who are in the trade seat....as teams want in front of Cleveland to take Tann
HACK
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Quote:
I really don't see the Rams trying to move up for any one player...they already had a spot to take any player not named Luck in the entire draft...and felt quantity was more important.....If you cant find someone you like at 6 then you really need someone else at the helm of your organization.
Everything I read or hear is its the Vikes who are in the trade seat....as teams want in front of Cleveland to take Tann
HACK
yes, but if the Vikings trade #3 for Tannehill, then the Browns pick becomes the prime pick to trade-up for Kalil (drafts #1 LT).
at least that is what we are hoping. don't ruin our April hopes
#gmstrong
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
I really don't see the Rams trying to move up for any one player...they already had a spot to take any player not named Luck in the entire draft...and felt quantity was more important.....If you cant find someone you like at 6 then you really need someone else at the helm of your organization.
Everything I read or hear is its the Vikes who are in the trade seat....as teams want in front of Cleveland to take Tann
HACK
That would be even better..Pick of the litter for us and a Bidding war on the 4 for Kalil between two team that would have ammo..Rams and Minnesota.A 1-2-3 QB draft could only benefit us in doing what we want to do.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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If we take Tannehill at 4, I will likely throw many things in disgust.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c
You don't refuse to make steps that would improve your team, due to any perceived injustice from an opposing team in the past. Especially when that team is in the other conference
"When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God." Leviticus 19:33-34
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Legend
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I really don't see the Rams trying to move up for any one player...they already had a spot to take any player not named Luck in the entire draft...and felt quantity was more important.....If you cant find someone you like at 6 then you really need someone else at the helm of your organization.
Everything I read or hear is its the Vikes who are in the trade seat....as teams want in front of Cleveland to take Tann
HACK
I would be absolutely ecstatic if someone jumped us to take Tannehill.
I think that Kalil being available at 4 would make 4 incredibly valuable.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think we have every intention of taking Richardson, but are putting out the Tannehill stuff as misinformation (even though everyone knows we're taking Richardson).
Maybe some team will think we're really going to do it and will offer up a ridiculous trade package.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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All Pro
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All Pro
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yes, but if the Vikings trade #3 for Tannehill, then the Browns pick becomes the prime pick to trade-up for Kalil (drafts #1 LT).
at least that is what we are hoping. don't ruin our April hopes
So the thought is that The Browns might take Kalil and put him at RT? Or that they would need to get in front of Tampa to get him?
HACK
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Legend
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yes, but if the Vikings trade #3 for Tannehill, then the Browns pick becomes the prime pick to trade-up for Kalil (drafts #1 LT).
at least that is what we are hoping. don't ruin our April hopes
So the thought is that The Browns might take Kalil and put him at RT? Or that they would need to get in front of Tampa to get him?
HACK
well, the thought is TB has been very quiet about their spot. Most think they are hoping Claiborne (NFC South w/ Brees/Cam/Ryan) and others think they go Richardson. But, it seems they are staying at that spot (unless they are just being super quiet).
St.Louis would almost definitely take Kalil at #6. So, if the Browns are willing to trade down, then teams would start gauging the price to make sure they got him there. Or, maybe someone else is in love with Claiborne and they want to jump TB.
But, either way, with the CBA taking care of the rookie wage scale, these trades are much more possible and going for a higher price than before in draft picks. So, we're hoping against hope that we can have our cake (get extra picks) and eat it too (still get one of the top tier guys - if we trade down w/ Vikings @ Miami's pick, there's a chance Blackmon or Richardson is still there).
#gmstrong
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Legend
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yes, but if the Vikings trade #3 for Tannehill, then the Browns pick becomes the prime pick to trade-up for Kalil (drafts #1 LT).
at least that is what we are hoping. don't ruin our April hopes
So the thought is that The Browns might take Kalil and put him at RT? Or that they would need to get in front of Tampa to get him?
HACK
The thought is just that there is the one elite LT in the draft available at pick 4 and that the teams picking 6, 8, and 10 all need one as probably their primary need.
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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I suspect that the Browns would demand both of the second rounders this year plus second rounders over the next two seasons to move back just two spots. Yeah, if it were me, then the Rams would have to dole out four second rounders (2 this year, and one each in the following 2 seasons) for them to move up to the 4th pick.
This is not serious, right?
You bet your butt it's serious! Was it reasonable for the Redskins to offer what they did to move up 4 spots? It got the job done, but was it reasonable? Most sane front offices wouldn't say so, but the Rams found an insane owner willing to spend frivolously for the 'hype of the moment'. The Rams & Redskins set the price and now they have to pay the same price.
For what Washington paid, they could have had the #1 pick from Indy, and it could have probably cost less if Indy was willing to make the trade.
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OP
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Did they pay too much if Griffin takes them to 1 or more Super Bowls? We get so caught up in what things cost from a draft choice standpoint while we slog away in ... well, I was going to write "mediocrity" ...... but we have a way to go to even reach that level. Ah well .... here's hoping we reach mediocre this year ...... 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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The Rams & Redskins set the price and now they have to pay the same price.
Unfortunately for us, that's not how things work. The Redskins traded that much for a quarterback. The Rams will not be trading up for a quarterback.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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The Rams & Redskins set the price and now they have to pay the same price.
Unfortunately for us, that's not how things work. The Redskins traded that much for a quarterback. The Rams will not be trading up for a quarterback.
Regardless.. the Rams at 4 would get a franchise player...
I would make them give us their 2nd and 3rd this year.. as well as their 3rd next year.
Then if I were Heckert.. I'd trade a 4th and 5th to try and get back into the 3rd round for even more talent.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) This is why the Rams screwed up
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