DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Draft Stuff v.3

Very good read. I agree with much of it. This is how I do my final board as well and it is scary how much I agree with this guy.

I like Jeffery, Sanu and Hill better than Blackmon, Floyd and Wright. Greg Childs is gaining ground as well.

Tannehill has a good chance to be the best player out of this draft if he gets the right coaching and the right system. (he needs to be drafted by the Browns for his own good) Never thought I would say that about any player.

I disagree on RG3, he just takes so many devastating hits. I have no confidence in him holding up to the NFL game. Luck is going to the wrong system and although he is my #1, I can't help but think next David Carr Tim Couch beat up QB.

Fletcher Cox has the best short burst of any DT in the draft. In the game against UK, he actually beats the 3rd down scat back to the edge and makes the tackle for loss.

fair enough and I do like that he approaches it completely differently than most. whether right or wrong it makes for a more interesting angle to think about rather than just parroting like most do.

it was a more writing style thing than a critique on "who" he rated "where"

I do think it's funny that if that was his critique of Weeden that he had Locker #2 overall the year before (he didn't exactly improve his senior year)

Thanks for the link DJ, but man Drew can watch film 24/7 and still not have a clue.

Anyway he's sure to get a couple right, just by the luck of the draw.

I think he was trying to produce shock and aha!

He accomplished his mission there

I think there is a three way discrepancy of opinion on the #4 pick between H&H&S. I have read some new reports today if anyone is interested PM me.

If Randy Lerner gets his way it will be QB.

OK, so we take Richardson at 4 and Sanu at 22.

Get me a RT please !

It is a good class of RT's. These seem to be your first 3 round tackles.

Martin, Reiff, Glenn, Amini Silatolu, Mitchell Swartz, Bobbie Massie, Kelechi Osemele,Donald Stephenson

I don't consider Adams a RT, I think he is purely LT. Now there are also some interesting guys later like Datko, Adcock, James Carmon, Lamar Holmes,

As would I. Actually, I would be ecstatic.

Richardson is the best RB, Sanu is the 2nd best WR (IMO), so I woul be pretty ecstatic as well.

especially if that RT happened to be a Dancing Bear (Osemele)

My "OMG I can't believe it worked out like that" draft would be:
1) Richardson (trading down a couple of spots picking up an extra #2)
1b) Martin
2) Weeden
2b) Sanu


Then adding Marvin McNutt in the 4th.

If we could pull that off, we could spend the rest of the draft on best available, and we could maybe take a huge step forward this year.

I Really like Richardson and would not be upset if we selected him. With that said the more I watch Doug Martin the more I think we can afford to pass on Richardson at 4. He is a great back for this offense and can do it all. In my opinion he has a better stiff arm than Richardson or at least uses it better. He reminds me of Ray Rice. I think the Brass is really targeting that third round pick for a tackle.

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If we pass over Richardson, the clear cut best back in this draft, and several drafts for that matter, for Blackmon, who may not be the best receiver in this draft let along other drafts, I'll be sick.


Say hello to Braylon all over.

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The more video I watch of Blackmon, the more I see a potential Edwards/T.O. kind of player. WAY WAY too much chest-thumping and self-congratulation, especially considering he doesn't have automatic hands. He drops more than I'd like to see him drop. When I see various reports stating he gets frustrated in games and loses focus if he doesn't get the ball, that scares the Hell out of me. I mean Christ, he caught 121 balls in a non-16 game schedule, yet he STILL lost concentration and focus because he didn't....get ready for it....see enough footballs to keep him interested? What does he think he's going to see in the NFL? He'll go from 10 catches a game down to 5 or 6, and won't be running wide open routes like he did in college.

The more I see of him, the less I like him.

I will understand the pick if we take him, but I won't be at all confident about it. In fact, at this point, I'd rather take any number of guys further down the boards.

Of the two, I hope he could become a T.O. At least he had some numbers and is a borderline HOF player if not a solid lock.


Like him or not, which I don't, T.O. did play his college ball here in Chattanooga, so I have to semi, sorta, pimp him.



I just wish he would semi, sorta, pimp UTC.

Goodluck with that. TO's only loyalties are to his self-interests. He'll never thank the little university that got him his education, just like he'll never thank the QB's who threw him all those footballs.

If you told me Blackmon would be TO, I'd take him off the draft board all-together. That kind of player is radioactive...

I think you're reading too much into Blackmon and his "chest pumping". You have to remember he was at a school that has always been a perennial also ran and suddenly thrust into the position of being a top 3 team. It was a new experience and there's bound to be some chest pumping in that scenario.

I'm afraid that the reports of him losing focus and/or getting upset if he doesn't get enough footballs is a potential indicator that self-interest plays a bigger role than the interests of the team. Maybe if there were reports out there that he was a team-first kinda guy I'd be swayed, but I haven't seen that yet...

No one, certainly not me and obviously not you want a primedonna/cancer on the team. It's certainly team first and foremost.

However he's never, that I'm aware of and I live here, acted in a primadonna fashion and coach Gundy certainly loves the guy.

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. - In that he was the quarterback who passed to Hart Lee Dykes, the coordinator of the offense driven by Rashaun Woods and the head coach of the dazzling Dez Bryant, Mike Gundy expresses an extremely high level of respect for each of those former Oklahoma State wide receivers.


During the 2010 season, Gundy frequently was asked whether Justin Blackmon deserved membership in the Dykes-Woods-Bryant club.

Gundy was consistent with his response: "Let's see how Blackmon does over a longer period of time."

During Oklahoma State's preparation for Monday's Fiesta Bowl meeting with Stanford, Gundy again was asked to address the historical status of Blackmon - a two-time unanimous All-American and two-time recipient of the Biletnikoff Award, presented annually to the best wide receiver in college football.

When asked now about Blackmon's place among the elite receivers in Cowboy program history, Gundy's position is firm.

"I don't think there's any question that (Blackmon) is the best who has ever played at Oklahoma State," Gundy said. "He's going down, in my opinion, as the best player to play here since Barry Sanders (OSU's 1988 Heisman Trophy-winning tailback)."

A fourth-year junior from Ardmore, Blackmon has one remaining season of OSU eligibility, but - projected to be a top-10 pick overall - he is expected to enter the 2012 NFL draft.

In all likelihood, Stanford is his final college opponent.

"(Blackmon) is the best receiver in the nation," Stanford coach David Shaw said. "He is great after the catch. He is a big, physical kid. ... A game-changer."

Blackmon and quarterback Brandon Weeden certainly have been game-changers for Oklahoma State. In their two seasons as the most prominent figures in the offense, the Cowboys are 22-3.

During a news conference in January, Blackmon and Weeden announced that they would stay at OSU instead of entering the NFL draft. Their stated goals - to win the 2011 Big 12 championship and take Oklahoma State to its first appearance in a Bowl Championship Series game. Each goal was achieved.

In 2010, Blackmon set single-season school records for receptions (111), receiving yards (1,782) and touchdown catches (20). This season, he broke his record for catches (113), but his yardage (1,336) and TD receptions (15) haven't matched 2010 standards. Nevertheless, Gundy says the 2011 performance is more impressive because the game plan of every opposing defense centers on Blackmon.

Making the remarkable seems routine, Blackmon's most impressive statistic might be this one: Since the start of the 2010 season, he has played 24 games. In 12 games, he had at least 10 receptions.

Tulsa World

Only Jerry Rice has more TD receptions than TO.
Only Jerry Rice has more TD receptions than TO.
Only Jerry freakin Rice has more TD receptions than TO.

And you don't want Justin Blackmon because you're worried that he's too much like TO?

Because of some chest-thumping?


He was credited with 5 drops this year IIRC, which is a lot... Except he also had 121 catches! Please go through his game log and pick out which games he "lost focus."

I bet you'll struggle to find 2 individual games total from all of our receivers last year which match the games where he "lost focus."

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Only Jerry Rice has more TD receptions than TO.
Only Jerry Rice has more TD receptions than TO.
Only Jerry freakin Rice has more TD receptions than TO.

And you don't want Justin Blackmon because you're worried that he's too much like TO?

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Yup, because there's one more record-breaking stat that TO owns which you didn't mention:

No single player in history tore apart more teams.

Dude was productive but toxic. We can't do toxic here.

It looks like I'm ripping on Blackmon. I'm not. I'm focusing in on his potential warts as part of a risk-versus-reward equation. I'd still take him as the 1st receiver in this draft, but I'm viewing him in the potentially over-rated category along with Tannehill, though for obviously very different reasons. With the #4 pick in an entire draft, you want more certainty than questions. Blackmon comes with more than one question. I don't dig those odds because we cannot afford to miss again.

By now we know who I'm pulling for first, but my second choice would probably now be Claiborne. He has less questions.

Hey, Tulsa, man, I can't read the words of his head coach, hehe. I need some unbiased stuff.

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Where do you get your misinformation from?

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Misinformation. definition: false or incorrect information, especially when it is intended to trick someone.

Opinion. Definition: a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

I'm not offering information, especially not with intent to deceive. I'm expressing my opinion. If you wish to ask where I'm getting the information which leads to my opinion, feel free to ask.

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What ever speculations you might have formulated ... I'm quite sure that H,H&H have all of the information they need to make the right informed choice if they select him.

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I disagree. They may have all the information they need to make an informed decision, but that is FAR from stating they will be making the right decision.

I've long since given up on trusting any decision maker that has been the leadership of this organization, and it's my opinion that Blackmon is a riskier selection than either Richardson or Claiborne.

I'm even fairly certain that a cage full of monkey's could have thrown their poo at a board filled with 1st round players and done a better job than the monkey's who are now collecting termination pay and sitting on their fat asses after screwing up the job here in Cleveland...

When you say "down the road to see who is right and who is wrong" are you speaking in general terms or in the specific, meaning you and I?

Well, If we take him I have NO problems with him thumping his chest after every TD catch. I think we have enough of the right kind of guys that would "teach him" the right way to act. Im not concerned.

What is this "TD catch" that you speak of?

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What is this "TD catch" that you speak of?

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TD catch stands for Third Dropped Catch. Also known as a "Little Hat-trick"

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What ever speculations you might have formulated ... I'm quite sure that H,H&H have all of the information they need to make the right informed choice if they select him.


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I disagree. They may have all the information they need to make an informed decision, but that is FAR from stating they will be making the right decision.

I've long since given up on trusting any decision maker that has been the leadership of this organization, and it's my opinion that Blackmon is a riskier selection than either Richardson or Claiborne.

I'm even fairly certain that a cage full of monkey's could have thrown their poo at a board filled with 1st round players and done a better job than the monkey's who are now collecting termination pay and sitting on their fat asses after screwing up the job here in Cleveland...

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Toad...you are good for a laugh, I will give you that.

This idea that you are some gifted draft guru is a fantasy you live out every year at this time.

I believe Holmgren and Heckert have done a good job of drafting and building the team via the draft, so far. You claiming there has been no progress after two drafts?

There is a reason you do what you do...and Holmgren and Heckert do what they do. It's like comparing fantasy to reality...

Tuesday April 17, 2012 - 6:09 PM
Draft Tip Sheet: Georgia Tech WR U; Poe, Barron, Crick updates

By Len Pasquarelli | The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com

Even with the prospect of having a second player in three years selected at the position in the first round, and the third in six drafts, no one is ready yet to anoint Georgia Tech as "Wide Receiver U."

But it is more than unusual, especially with the offense that coach Paul Johnson operates, to have such success in placing pass-catchers in the early rounds of the draft.

Calvin Johnson as the second overall choice in 2007? That one is certainly understandable, and has worked out swimmingly for the Detroit Lions.


But Johnson played under Chan Gailey for the Yellow Jackets, and not in Paul Johnson's triple-option offense, which has finished no worse than fourth in the country in rushing yards since the coach arrived in 2008, and has ranked either first or second in each of the past three campaigns.

The rush-heavy offense notwithstanding -- the run has accounted for nearly 73 percent of Tech's offense in Paul Jonson's four seasons, and more than three-quarters of the snaps, and the Yellow Jackets have averaged only 167.0 passes per year in that stretch -- Stephen Hill figures to be picked in the first round. Just as Demaryius Thomas was by Denver in 2010.

Hill and Thomas are tremendous examples of NFL scouts projecting talent, no matter the college offense in which they played, to the league level. But they also are, in addition to being players who will help Johnson recruit receivers who might otherwise be reluctant to perform in such a ground-based attack, good examples of how downfield blocking can help to accentuate a wideout's total skill set.

Make no mistake, Thomas was chosen in the first round by the Broncos (No. 22 overall) and Hill figures to get into the first round on April 26, because each is big, fast, and catches the ball well. But the downfield blocking ability of the two Tech players figured into the equation somewhere.

Notable is that Hill caught just 43 passes his past two seasons. Thomas had 85 grabs his final two years.

"It doesn't hurt," Hill said last month when asked about the blocking. "I think it helps to (dispel) some of the (diva) image that wide receivers have. It's something you have to want to do. The natural thing at the position is to want to catch passes. But here, if you don't block, you're not going to play. It's part of what you buy into when you come here. And I do think it makes an impression (on scouts)."

In fact, at Hill's pro day workout, the scouts who gathered on the Tech campus were far more concerned about his route-running skills, since they were a bit difficult to discern given the offense in which he played. What they found was that Hill, who has blistering speed in the low 4.4 range, is quick in and out of his cuts. What the scouts already knew was that Hill is unselfish and willing to perform the "grunt" tasks that others might avoid.

And, it seems, he's not the only such receiver this year.

The Sports Xchange noted in passing last week that the pool of wide receivers in the 2012 draft class was, as a group, relatively solid in terms of blocking for the run. In addition to Hill, Notre Dame's Michael Floyd has been noted as a standout downfield blocker. LSU's Rueben Randle has garnered mixed reviews for his blocking, but most scouts seem to feel he is above average. Among the highly-regarded wide receivers, Kendall Wright of Baylor is cited as a willing blocker. Some of the middle- and late-round candidates are also mentioned as good blockers by scouts, and not all of them possess great size, but do have obvious tenacity.

Again, teams aren't likely to invest even a late-round selection on a receiver based principally on his blocking prowess. But, as one NFC area scout noted: "Hey, it is part of the job description, you know? It still jumps out at you when guys do it."

And even with the "spread" offenses becoming so prevalent at the college level, more receivers seem to be doing it.

"I don't care where you play," Randle said, "you aren't going to see many long runs without a (wide receiver) blocking somebody down the field. It's almost as if it's become a lost art, and scouts are surprised when they see it. It's an effort thing ... and people want to see effort."

Draft notebook

• Although there is only a little more than a week to go until the first round, and draft boards for most teams have been fairly solidified, some prospects are still being much debated in war rooms, and few more so than Memphis defensive tackle Dontari Poe.

As noted here last week, and by several other draft-related sites, Poe isn't particularly productive on tape. But the equally-discussed element of his game is whether Poe, who has almost exclusively played in a 4-3 front, can transition to 3-4 nose tackle. "He's not classic," said the general manager of a 3-4 team. "If you want a guy to just eat up blockers, and not worry about the other stuff ... I don't know if he's the guy."

Then again, Baltimore tackle/end Haloti Ngata, the veteran to whom Poe is frequently compared, is hardly a nose tackle, and he's been chosen to the Pro Bowl four times.

• Unlike a year ago, when the talent pool seemed chock-full of five-technique defensive end possibilities for 3-4 fronts, there aren't a lot of candidates for the 2012 draft.

One guy who is getting attention, and who might have worked himself up to the third round, in part because of the thin crop at the position is Jared Crick of Nebraska.

The former Cornhuskers' standout has some injury concerns, and at 279 pounds at the combine, isn't nearly as bulky as some teams would prefer as a 3-4 end.

But Crick, who ran under five seconds in Indy, is deceptively strong, can hold the point, and really uses his hands well to get rid of blockers.

At 6-feet-4 1/4, he might not be able to hold a lot more weight, and a lot of teams project him more as a 4-3 guy who can move inside on third down, but he has some natural 3-4 skills, and is getting play as such.

• There don't seem to be many players jumping up boards around the league as much as Alabama safety Mark Barron has the past few weeks.

Although solidly in the first round all along, Barron was thought to be a prospect more in the 20s,but might go off the board more toward the halfway point of the stanza now.

There just aren't that many safety prospects overall -- and Barron certainly is the only one who merits first-round consideration -- and he is gaining momentum. The former Crimson Tide standout seems to have answered all the physical questions, after having undergone hernia surgery earlier in the spring. While he still isn't great against the pass, teams like his toughness, smarts and versatility.

• Perhaps the cornerback equivalent to Barron is South Carolina's Stephon Gilmore, who was highlighted by The Sports Xchange last month.

Big and quick, and able to play a variety of styles, Gilmore could suddenly be the No. 2 corner on a lot of boards, with the dropoffs of Dre Kirkpatrick of Alabama and North Alabama's Janoris Jenkins. What has helped Gilmore, among other things, is that some "cover two" teams that have worked him out in recent weeks are more convinced he can fit into that scheme.

Sometimes a hit-and-miss tackler, Gilmore nonetheless doesn't avoid contact and will support the run, a key attribute in the cover two.

• Keep an eye, too, on the Clemson defensive line duo of end/linebacker Andre Branch and tackle Brandon Thompson.

Each can line up at multiple positions -- a few teams actually feel Thompson might be best as a 3-4 end -- and both have had individual workouts for several franchises in the past two weeks. The second round is the most likely landing spot for the Clemson standouts, but it wouldn't be all that shocking to see one of them, Branch in particular, sneak into the first round.

• No inkling yet about who might replace the deposed Steve Hale as CEO and president of the annual Senior Bowl college all-star game in Mobile, Ala., but some locals are pushing hard for Philadelphia Eagles personnel consultant Phil Savage to at least consider the post.

A Mobile native, Savage is a longtime and widely respected league personnel man, was general manager in Cleveland (2005-2008), and a key member of Ozzie Newsome's top-shelf scouting staff in Baltimore for many years.

Hale was ousted last month after 19 years of running what is arguably the most conspicuous of the college postseason contests.

• Quick kicks: Some of the smaller-school cornerbacks, who seemed to be so fashionable only a few weeks ago, appear to be dropping on draft boards. There is a chance now that few, if any, will go off before the third round. ... Brandon Brooks of Miami (Ohio) isn't the only small college guard to get attention. He won't be drafted nearly as high as Brooks, who is likely to be the first non-combine player off the board, perhaps as early as the third round, but Gino Gradkowski of Delaware figures to be in the sixth or seventh round now. The main concern with Gradkowski is a lack of lower-body bulk. ... Defensive lineman Chigbo Anunoby has been fairly impressive in individual work and could be the second player from Morehouse drafted in the past three years.

• The last word: "I'll go anywhere, but you want the teams that didn't take you to wish they did." -- Alabama tailback Trent Richardson, expected to be a top five pick in the draft, but probably affected a bit by the NFL's trend to not take running backs as high in the lottery in recent years
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This idea that you are some gifted draft guru is a fantasy you live out every year at this time.

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That's what we all do this time of year. That's part of the fun of the draft.

It's just unfortunate that you'd rather play the bitter old guy sitting on his step threatening bodily harm to the kids who play on his lawn.

Or are you actually that guy?

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I believe Holmgren and Heckert have done a good job of drafting and building the team via the draft, so far. You claiming there has been no progress after two drafts?

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You can read what I wrote. If you choose to wrongly read anything into it, that's your decision, in which case you can start one of your patented internal debates rallying against a point that nobody has made.

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There is a reason you do what you do...and Holmgren and Heckert do what they do. It's like comparing fantasy to reality...

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After all these years, that's the best dig you can come up with? You have all the imagination of a corn-nut...