Those were their rookie seasons, both teams made dramatic improvements in Aikman and Manning's second year.
No 5 year plan was needed. The Colts went from 3-13 in Manning's first season to 13-3 the next, Cowboys went from 1-15 in Aikman's rookie year to 7-9 the next. Meanwhile we just keep going 4-12 every year.
Quote: The Browns, playing 3 very good defensive teams in division, could have a better OL than another team outside our division, yet show up as worse based on stats alone.
YT...all the more reason to focus on one of the weakest links of the Browns offense...the offensive line.
Football basics...if the Browns offensive line can't control the line of scrimmage playing against teams in the AFC North, the Browns are not going to make the playoffs and are not going to be playing for any Championships.
In the past, there were no stats to measure the performance and effectness of a team's offensive line...that is beginning to change. I posted the offensive performance of the teams where George Warhop coached knowing that offensive performance and Oline performance are linked.
I wanted to see if Warhop's Oline coaching made a difference and translated into better offensive production. Warhop's body of work speaks for itself.
Knowing Alex Gibbs was one of the very best Oline coaches at the Pro level, I compared Warhop and Gibbs. It seems that Warhop and Gibbs are at opposite ends...
Those looking for dramatic improvement in the Browns offensive line performance this season...we can "hope".
George Warhop is no Alex Gibbs but with the Browns offense ranking near the bottom in points scored and total yardage, it should not be that difficult to show some improvement in offensive production.
I don't know if the Browns will ever have a dominate offensive line similar to the Saints Oline of last season. Some assume an Oline coach is only as good as the talent his team drafts to fill the 5 Oline positions.
It's not about just drafting talent..coaching does matter and plays a part in the end product. If the Browns are going to make the playoffs in the AFC North, they will need not only good talent at all 5 positions, but they must have exceptional coaching.
Warhop has to prove to me that he is capable of improving the play of his Oline unit. The Browns run blocking and pass blocking must get better if the offense is going to improve their production.
Quote: Those were their rookie seasons, both teams made dramatic improvements in Aikman and Manning's second year.
And for all practical purposes, last year was McCoys first year...
Although, those that absolutly believe he's not any good will argue that he played the year before.. They will also forget to mention All the other changes over the off season that occured that made everything new again..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: Those were their rookie seasons, both teams made dramatic improvements in Aikman and Manning's second year.
And for all practical purposes, last year was McCoys first year...
Although, those that absolutly believe he's not any good will argue that he played the year before.. They will also forget to mention All the other changes over the off season that occured that made everything new again..
Not to mention where Aikman and Manning were drafted in the first place...or what they were paid when signed.
None of which matters one bit when it comes to winning or losing.
We don't get a handicap for having a 3rd year 3rd round QB who has been horribly ineffective to this point. No one spots us points for having crappy QB play.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Those were their rookie seasons, both teams made dramatic improvements in Aikman and Manning's second year.
And for all practical purposes, last year was McCoys first year...
Although, those that absolutly believe he's not any good will argue that he played the year before.. They will also forget to mention All the other changes over the off season that occured that made everything new again..
I really think that those that ardently say that we have to replace McCoy are only content if the Browns suck year after year. They have no other joys in life but criticizing the QB position. It started with Tim Couch. His haters wanted Kelly Holcomb. When Holcomb sucked, they called for his head. They wanted Frye! Then they asked for some veteran QB and got Garcia, Dilfer, and more has-beens. They're not happy that we didn't give Dan Snyder ownership of the team for the rights to draft #2 overall.
Quote: None of which matters one bit when it comes to winning or losing.
We don't get a handicap for having a 3rd year 3rd round QB who has been horribly ineffective to this point. No one spots us points for having crappy QB play.
When he was drafted, the plan was for him to sit for three years...like that really good QB in Green Bay.
He played the first year due only to injury. You call him a "3rd year QB"...but the third year has not even started.
You consistently and conveniently forget all kinds of circumstances that got us to this point.
He's played two years...one in which he did not even get snaps prior to the injuries...last year was a story that could not be drawn up in the wildest of imaginations...his 3rd year is yet to even begin.
Quote: None of which matters one bit when it comes to winning or losing.
We don't get a handicap for having a 3rd year 3rd round QB who has been horribly ineffective to this point. No one spots us points for having crappy QB play.
When he was drafted, the plan was for him to sit for three years...like that really good QB in Green Bay.
He played the first year due only to injury. You call him a "3rd year QB"...but the third year has not even started.
You consistently and conveniently forget all kinds of circumstances that got us to this point.
He's played two years...one in which he did not even get snaps prior to the injuries...last year was a story that could not be drawn up in the wildest of imaginations...his 3rd year is yet to even begin.
But, but... Jake Delhomme was all that and a bag of chips and that Seneca Wallace guy! He's a surefire first ballot hall-of-fame backup QB! Pay no attention that Wallace's record is exactly the same as McCoy's.
And the NFL doesn't give points for trying .... it doesn't give points "to be fair to the QB" ........
Hell, Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to "Hey, Trent Green is out, why don't you lead us to a Super Bowl win this year instead?".
People, especially QBs, get thrown into the fire sometimes. Some rise, and some burn. McCoy has burned so far. I had hope for him in his rookie year. However, he went into his rookie year, and had every one of his weaknesses exposed. He didn't have a great supporting cast. That doesn't change a thing. He still did nothing at the end of the year better than at the beginning of the year, and we scored about as close to no points as is possible in today's NFL.
There are some weak spots around McCoy. That does not make him a better QB than he is, and it will not make him make throws that he has proven incapable of making thus far. It will not give him a sense of anticipation. It will not make him more accurate. He is what he is, and that is a failed 3rd round experiment. Holmgren thought that he could outsmart the rest of the NFL. It didn't work. It's time to move on.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
And none of that changes the fact .... FACT ... that there are throws that McCoy simply cannot make, reads he cannot make, and his anticipation of a receiver coming open, or throwing a receiver open flat out SUCKS.
He is an awful QB who would not start for any other team in the NFL unless someone got hurt and the team got really desperate.
Sorry, but that's the truth.
That's why the team is saying nice things about him while desperately trying to replace him.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: And the NFL doesn't give points for trying .... it doesn't give points "to be fair to the QB" ........
I'm not saying be fair to the QB. I simply disagree with you that McCoy isn't the answer.
Quote: Hell, Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to "Hey, Trent Green is out, why don't you lead us to a Super Bowl win this year instead?"
Actually, when Dick Vermeil was asked about the QB situation after Trent Green went down, he thought the season was lost. I'll point out to you that Kurt Warner was an UDFA that was bagging groceries while playing in an arena football league. He was also invited into camp because they needed a practice squad QB and he was never expected to make the roster. There were future HOF players on that team though. Marshall Faulk. Warner himself is a lock for the HOF and Isaac Bruce & Torry Holt will make that leap at some point. I guess that they all sucked before Kurt Warner joined them.
Quote: People, especially QBs, get thrown into the fire sometimes. Some rise, and some burn. McCoy has burned so far. I had hope for him in his rookie year. However, he went into his rookie year, and had every one of his weaknesses exposed. He didn't have a great supporting cast. That doesn't change a thing. He still did nothing at the end of the year better than at the beginning of the year, and we scored about as close to no points as is possible in today's NFL.
He was on a team with a system that he didn't know, wasn't supposed to play at all and had poor quality players around him. What really got exposed was the Cleveland Browns team. It's not a surprise that Mangini got canned after the season.
Quote: There are some weak spots around McCoy.
A more obvious understatement hasn't been said about the 2011 Cleveland Browns than this.
Quote: That does not make him a better QB than he is....
...nor does it make him as bad or worse than you say he is.
Quote: ...and it will not make him make throws that he has proven incapable of making thus far. It will not give him a sense of anticipation. It will not make him more accurate. He is what he is, and that is a failed 3rd round experiment.
At this point, it seems to me that the Browns front office is going with McCoy again this year. Maybe the 'experiment' isn't over. And, what throws are you talking about (those 50-yard Hail Mary passes?) and the lack of accuracy that you're talking about? I saw passes on the hands that got dropped. The receivers are paid to catch the ball, even if it's in traffic. Seems to me that McCoy's detractors say that he led them into concussions but give the receivers a complete pass for dropping balls and killing drives.
Quote: Holmgren thought that he could outsmart the rest of the NFL. It didn't work. It's time to move on.
Because YOU say so? And, it was Randy Lerner that tried to force that deal for RG3 and got outbid by Dan Snyder. That wasn't a move that Holmgren & Heckert wanted to do. All those clamoring that the attempt proves that Holmgren & Heckert aren't behind McCoy has to realize they never wanted to make that move but that Lerner had tried - or forced Holmgren & Heckert to make the offer.
Quote: And none of that changes the fact .... FACT ... that there are throws that McCoy simply cannot make, reads he cannot make, and his anticipation of a receiver coming open, or throwing a receiver open flat out SUCKS.
Fact? More like your opinion which you claim is fact.
Or the FACT that the receivers simply can't hold onto the ball on a slant route or get separation more than 5 yards down field.
Quote: He is an awful QB who would not start for any other team in the NFL unless someone got hurt and the team got really desperate.
So, if he's an awful QB, maybe the Browns should cut him (why keep an awful QB on the team wasting a roster spot?) and we could see if there is any other teams that try to sign him. He should make it through waivers if you're right and we could sign him for even less money.
Quote: Sorry, but that's the truth.
That's why the team is saying nice things about him while desperately trying to replace him.
The only QB that I know that Holmgren pursued was Bradford, which isn't surprising because he sought to trade up to get him during the 2010 draft. The previous St. Louis regime refused. With a new regime in St. Louis, he thought he'd give it another try. Still couldn't get them to make a trade. And, if RG3 is all that, why wouldn't St. Louis take him themselves and trade Bradford? With the new rookie cap, they could make the numbers fit. They traded the #2 overall selection to a fool. For what Washington gave up to acquire the #2 overall pick, whoever they select (one assumes it is RG3) had better WIN the Super Bowl THIS YEAR - not just win more games or make push for the playoffs in future years.
Quote: So, if he's an awful QB, maybe the Browns should cut him (why keep an awful QB on the team wasting a roster spot?) and we could see if there is any other teams that try to sign him. He should make it through waivers if you're right and we could sign him for even less money.
That would be fine by me. Wallace or McCoy makes no difference to me.
Quote: The only QB that I know that Holmgren pursued was Bradford, which isn't surprising because he sought to trade up to get him during the 2010 draft. The previous St. Louis regime refused. With a new regime in St. Louis, he thought he'd give it another try. Still couldn't get them to make a trade. And, if RG3 is all that, why wouldn't St. Louis take him themselves and trade Bradford?
So when Holmgren said that he pursued RG3 ..... he lied about it ..... why exactly?
As far as why St Louis wouldn;t trade Bradford, it's simple. they believe in him, and further, he signed before the rookie cap, and trading him would have serious cap repercussions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: Actually, when Dick Vermeil was asked about the QB situation after Trent Green went down, he thought the season was lost. I'll point out to you that Kurt Warner was an UDFA that was bagging groceries while playing in an arena football league. He was also invited into camp because they needed a practice squad QB and he was never expected to make the roster.
Talk about revisionist history.
Warner played for the Rams in the 98 season as well. He went 4-11 for 39 yards in the last game of the season. Heading into the 99 season he was the backup to Trent Green. And actually when Vermeil was asked after Green went down he said, " We will rally around Kurt Warner. And we'll play good football." 1:17 in the video below.
Quote: There were future HOF players on that team though. Marshall Faulk. Warner himself is a lock for the HOF and Isaac Bruce & Torry Holt will make that leap at some point. I guess that they all sucked before Kurt Warner joined them.
Faulk was one of the best RBs in the league, but HOF at that point, I don't think so. Bruce had a couple of great seasons early in his career, but had spent the previous two years injured (only played 17 total games). Holt was a rookie out of NC State in 1999.
Kurt Warner played a HUGE reason why Faulk is a HOFer, Bruce will be, and Holt might be.
Kurt Warner was 28 when he was handed the reins to the St Louis Rams offense.
I don't recall whether or not the Rams thought he was too old ....... but they did sign 30 year old Trent Green that off-season, and expected him to be their QB. They then traded Green to KC, where he had some decent years, and 3 good years at ages 32, 33, and 34.
I'm not sure if they thought he was too old either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Let's look at QBs .... they may have something to do with this .....
#1 QB - Drew Brees: #1 offense, # 2 OL, playoffs #2 QB - Tom Brady: #2 offense, #9 OL, playoffs #3 QB - Matthew Stafford: #4 offense, #17 OL, playoffs #4 QB - Eli Manning: #8 offense, #7 OL, playoffs #5 QB - Aaron Rodgers: #3 offense, #21 OL, playoffs #6 QB - Phillip Rivers: #6 offense, #8 OL, non playoff team #7 QB - Tony Romo: #11 offense, #19 OL,non playoff team #8 QB - Matt Ryan: #10 offense, #6 OL, playoffs #9 QB - Ben Roethlisberger: #12 offense, #24 OL, playoffs #10 QB - Cam Newton: #7 offense, #15 OL, non playoff team
So 8 of the top 10 QBs ran top 10 offenses, with the other 2 running the #11 and #12 offenses.
In this group of 10 QBs, 5 had a top 10 OL, and the other 5 did not. Their OLs placed 17, 21, 19, 24, and 15. (We had the #18 OL, but the #22 QB)
OL is not the end all-be all .... but QB sure looks as close to it as anything can be.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: That would be fine by me. Wallace or McCoy makes no difference to me.
Yeah, but what you say makes no difference to reality.
Quote: So when Holmgren said that he pursued RG3 ..... he lied about it ..... why exactly?
He didn't lie, but he was forced to pursue a trade to the #2 spot by Lerner. It wasn't something that Holmgren wanted to do. That is what I am saying. When the owner tells you to do something, you do it. The attempt to move up was LERNER'S doing, NOT Holmgren's.
Quote: As far as why St Louis wouldn't trade Bradford, it's simple. they believe in him, and further, he signed before the rookie cap, and trading him would have serious cap repercussions.
The Rams believe Bradford will be a better QB than RG3 will, despite not having shown much since being drafted. Sure, they ALMOST won the NFC West in his rookie season but lost to Seattle in the final game to lose it and then was in contention to get the #1 overall pick in the draft at season's end. Is that because Bradford is SO good or because he has no talent on the team around him?
What you had were 2 owners (Dan Snyder & Randy Lerner) that were just insane trying to bankrupt their franchise's futures to get to the #2 spot. It simply wasn't Holmgren's nor Heckert's decision to make that move.
The cap repercussions would hardly matter. RG3 wouldn't have been signing before the cap changes. He'd be signing a rookie scale contract. The Rams also have the cap space to trade Bradford if they wanted. Why do you think Holmgren pursued him? He tried to do so with St. Louis' last regime (during the 2010 draft) and he tried again with the new regime. Holmgren certainly thinks that Bradford is worth it. The decision to try and trade with St. Louis for the #2 spot wasn't his, it was purely Lerner's ball to carry and Lerner didn't get the job done. Holmgren was simply the conduit to make the contact (proper channels and all that, you know).
I have yet to see any evidence that Lerner had anything to do with the RG3 acquisition.
I do recall Holmgren was responsible for the McCoy acquisition. Perhaps he also was the one going after RG3. I've yet to see anyone explain the thought process behind the attempt.
I have to be honest Anarchy.. I'm not convinced that McCoy is the answer either. What I do believe is that we don't know because of the tools and weapons around him.
Put those things in place, see if he's the got "IT" or not, if he does,, Terrific.. if not, the next QB is set up to succeed because of his supporting cast.. Or at least the supporting cast won't be a reason to have failed.
Now, where have we seen this before...OH YEAH... Pittsburgh with big Ben... He had a solid line, good receivers, a RB that ran over people, a system in place for years, and a defense that was just KILLER.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: I have yet to see any evidence that Lerner had anything to do with the RG3 acquisition.
I do recall Holmgren was responsible for the McCoy acquisition. Perhaps he also was the one going after RG3. I've yet to see anyone explain the thought process behind the attempt.
king...there has been "speculation" that it was Randy Lerner's idea to pursue Griffin, but I have not seen any hard evidence.
That said, I doubt that Holmgren would pursue trading up, involving multiple first round picks, without letting his boss in on the plan. At the very least, Lerner had to be aware of the deal on the table.
Do I believe Lerner was the one pushing for a trade up and instructed Holmgren to try to make a deal?....I have a hard time believing Lerner would be pushing a deal for a QB without the approval of Holmgren.
Fact is, Browns fans don't know what went down...at this point, we are speculating.
Quote: I'm not convinced that McCoy is the answer either.
How true is that, I think 99.9% of all Browns fans feel this way, To add my feelings, I also dont believe anybody we draft in any round is better or could be better than Colt. Thus making any QB we pick a wasted pick, we have other areas to fix,
If QB is still an issue next year lets address it next year,
Quote: yt...what is your source for all of these stats..QB ranking, offensive ranking and Oline stats?
nfl.com
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: That would be fine by me. Wallace or McCoy makes no difference to me.
Quote: Yeah, but what you say makes no difference to reality.
Umm ...... how did the offense perform with Wallace compared to with McCoy? Remember that Watson lost Watson, Smith, and Norwood to injuries late. How much did the passing game "suffer" with Wallace in there? He's a career backup, and he performed as well as the future career backup in waiting did all year long. No difference in performance, but remember that Wallace was playing the Ravens and Steelers with Moore and Cameron at TE, no Marecic, and no Norwood to bail him out from the slot as he had been doing for McCoy.
Quote: So when Holmgren said that he pursued RG3 ..... he lied about it ..... why exactly?
Quote: He didn't lie, but he was forced to pursue a trade to the #2 spot by Lerner. It wasn't something that Holmgren wanted to do. That is what I am saying. When the owner tells you to do something, you do it. The attempt to move up was LERNER'S doing, NOT Holmgren's.
Umm ... yeah ...... OK. I love how you refuse to look at what happens on the field, but hold tight to rumors and speculation that has no basis in fact.
Quote: The Rams believe Bradford will be a better QB than RG3 will, despite not having shown much since being drafted. Sure, they ALMOST won the NFC West in his rookie season but lost to Seattle in the final game to lose it and then was in contention to get the #1 overall pick in the draft at season's end. Is that because Bradford is SO good or because he has no talent on the team around him?
What you had were 2 owners (Dan Snyder & Randy Lerner) that were just insane trying to bankrupt their franchise's futures to get to the #2 spot. It simply wasn't Holmgren's nor Heckert's decision to make that move.
The cap repercussions would hardly matter. RG3 wouldn't have been signing before the cap changes. He'd be signing a rookie scale contract. The Rams also have the cap space to trade Bradford if they wanted. Why do you think Holmgren pursued him? He tried to do so with St. Louis' last regime (during the 2010 draft) and he tried again with the new regime. Holmgren certainly thinks that Bradford is worth it. The decision to try and trade with St. Louis for the #2 spot wasn't his, it was purely Lerner's ball to carry and Lerner didn't get the job done. Holmgren was simply the conduit to make the contact (proper channels and all that, you know).
*Sigh*
Sam Bradford signed a rookie deal with a staggering $50 million in guarantees. This was largely done under the old system, and the signing bonus paid prior to last year and other tricks of the trade that were worked into old style rookie contracts would accelerate if Bradford were cut or traded. If he were cut or traded this far in advance of the season, they would accelerate onto this single year's cap. The Rams paid him a "signing bonus" last year of $17 million. He probably hit the 35% and 45% playing time escalators in his contract, although I'm not going to go check. However, that signing bonus was paid last year. That means that just one year's worth of the bonus has "accelerated" against the cap. He would have 4/5 of that bonus, plus portions of any other bonuses paid that were allocated across the length of his deal that would come immediately due against the cap. That means that a minimum ..... emphasis, minimum of $13.4 million would be immediately due against the cap if they trade or cut Bradford.
Further, why would Fisher have taken the Rams coaching job if he didn't believe that Bradford was the answer? That would make no sense when the Dolphins job was waiting for him.
Again, as far as RG3 .... you have taken some wild ass speculation with minimal, if any, basis in fact, and embraced it as fact. I laugh at how some of you guys lambaste the reporters covering the team for reporting stuff that goes on ..... but jump on these idiotic stories that are pulled out of left field ........
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: The only evidence we have is what has happened in the past, and that says Lerner allows his people to make the decisions.
I doubt Lerner walked in to Homie or Hecks office and told them to make the move.
I bet that he may have walked into Holmgren's office and said: "You fired Mangini because his teams scored 245 and 271 points, and he couldn't develop a QB ... then you went out and laid a freakin dinosaur egg in the middle of CBS, scoring 218 points with your hand picked QB. What are you going to do to fix this, and when .... because we will not have another year like last year without serious repercussions."
I can imagine that happening ...... and Lerner would be right to do it. He hired Holmgren to produce. This is his 3rd year as Team President. (plus the time he had in 2009) Lerner could pay some schlub off the street $25,000/year to produce this crap.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Quote: I still believe Thomas is the best LT in football and has been for several years, even if he isn't as good as guys like Pace and Jones were. I believe Mack has become one of the better centers in the league, and a guy that all 32 teams would be pleased to have no their roster. But beyond that, I think we are woefully lacking at the other three positions. I'm going to be very sad if we go into the season having only upgraded one of the three remaining positions with a high draft pick.
Who has the best OL in football? The Saints maybe?
RT - Charles Brown Pick 64 (2nd round) in 2012 RG - Jahri Evans Pick 108 (4th round) in 2006 C - Matt Tennant Pick 158 (5th round) in 2010 LG - Carl Nicks Pick 164 (5th round) in 2008 (signed with Tampa Bay) LT - Jermon Bushrod Pick 125 (4th round) in 2007
Who else is good? Houston?
RT - Eric Winston Pick 66 (3rd round) in 2006 (signed with the Chiefs) RG - Mike Brisiel Undrafted in 2006 (signed with Raiders) C - Chris Myers Pick 200 (6th round) in 2005 LG - Wade Smith Pick 78 (3rd round) in 2003 LT - Duane Brown Pick 26 (1st round) in 2008
I am not now, nor have I ever been, of the opinion that you have to have an entire OL made up of top 3 round picks. I can't find a single example of a good OL that is built that way.
The Browns need a nice RT pick (second round perhaps) and maybe a 4th or 5th round pick for guard depth and a guy that can blossom into something... If we start taking OGs in the 2nd or 3rd round this year I will be upset. Give the young guys a chance.
I am not now, nor have I ever been, of the opinion that you have to have an entire OL made up of top 3 round picks. I can't find a single example of a good OL that is built that way.
The Browns need a nice RT pick (second round perhaps) and maybe a 4th or 5th round pick for guard depth and a guy that can blossom into something... If we start taking OGs in the 2nd or 3rd round this year I will be upset. Give the young guys a chance.
I agree, RT early. But we have too many other needs to start taking OGs so early. Unless someone like Dicastro falls to our 2nd round pick, there's just no reason for it.
I want a RT with our 2nd 1st round pick or our 2nd round pick. Someone who can start right away. And I'm def interested in what Pinkston and Lavauo can do this year. They're young, athletic, and got a season of experience. I think they'll be better. And the line overall should be better too
Quote: king...there has been "speculation" that it was Randy Lerner's idea to pursue Griffin, but I have not seen any hard evidence.
until you mentioned it right here with this comment, I've not heard one single word linking lerner with RG...I don't think there has been ANY SPECULATION at all about it...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Quote: until you mentioned it right here with this comment, I've not heard one single word linking lerner with RG...I don't think there has been ANY SPECULATION at all about it...
Mike Florio started the rumor last week over on his site....other than that I haven't heard a lot about it.....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
The Saints and Texans offensive lines both took a hit this off-season. The Saints lost Nicks in free agency to the Buccaneers. The Texans cut Winston and he signed with the Chiefs.
What part of a "5 YEAR PLAN"...do you not understand?
Here the Browns are, not even 50% through the rebuilding process Holmgren started in 2010 and some of our fans are ready to give up on the plan and ready to return to the failed policies of the past.
Randy Lerner knows where the franchise went wrong in the past, because he was part of the problem, never sticking to a long range plan for success.
While some of our Browns fans struggle to find the strength and courage to endure the 5 year process started in 2010, Holmgren knows he has Randy Lerner's full support to see the process through to completion.
Trading down from the #4 draft slot to accumulate more picks for the 2013 draft is an option the Browns could employ to help secure a top tier QB (Matt Barkley, Landry Jones or Tyler Wilson) in the 2013 draft...if needed.
And, it was Randy Lerner that tried to force that deal for RG3 and got outbid by Dan Snyder. That wasn't a move that Holmgren & Heckert wanted to do. All those clamoring that the attempt proves that Holmgren & Heckert aren't behind McCoy has to realize they never wanted to make that move but that Lerner had tried - or forced Holmgren & Heckert to make the offer.
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