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Trading down, accumulating more picks seems to be the "smart" thing to do, rather than wasting picks on questionable QB talent....ya think?
I agree 100% 
Taking Weeden is just foolishness. He will be 29 this season. Say that again- 29!!!! And he still needs to be developed......
I can understand a reach for Tannehill. He looks like a QB and is young. IF he materializes, at least he won't be retiring the following year...
The smart thing to do is trade down a bit. IF can't be done, just stay at 4 and stick with best player available. Most would say Richardson, I'm fine with that. Then find a WR and RT. Then fill in the pieces BPA.
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Ever thought that Barkley and esp. Jones were adviced to stay in school because they had no chance to be "elite" QBs in THIS draft? They NEVER would have beaten out Luck and RG3...so? what does that make them? Battling 3rd/4th along with Tannehill and Weeden, right? So, next year they're no1 and 2 "maybe"...so what? Are they all of a sudden really better than Tannehill/Weeden class? I don't think so...if anything...we'll pay a higher price for talent we can get only "risking" 1 pick on this draft on Tannehill or Weeden and  at the rest of your post...WHO is acting here as if there's no 4th and 5th year? WHO wants to draft day 1 ready RT, Gs and FBs and other low value schmocks just not to look bad on paper? WHO the hell is being risk averse in this thread? The draft, like FA, is about UPGRADING...and we can upgrade on Colt...and don't act as if this would be difficult to do...4th down, 3p game and Colt throws it at Mack's butt...that's in the Dan Orlovsky running out of the endzone class in terms of stupidity...we can't upgrade on THAT and a 5.9yds/PA? I honestly think even Lindley, Cousins and Foles can challenge Colt day 1...hey, even Colt out of College would beat out today's version of Colt...in fact he did...and that Colt wasn't any good to begin with Mac, and which part of "punting upgrades to next offseason/draft is stupid and planning to do so even more (take this year's failed attempt at RG3 as the best example)" didn't you get? You or somebody else wrote the same BS last year..."we will find out about Colt", "if he sucks, we will pick high enough for a franchise QB", "we traded down so we have enough picks to invest in a QB to upgrade on Colt" What happened the last 12 months is EXACTLY what you wrote...why should we waste another season on Colt McCoy again? QBs are and will always be the riskiest picks in the 1st round....approaching the draft with the intention "not to bust" will get you nowhere...you can't win it if you aren't in it You will never upgrade the QB position if you keep punting it into "next draft"...if there's a 100% QB prospect he goes no1 and we won't pick no1 if you spend your picks on lower value positions..we will be somewhat competitive even with a hack like Colt and draft in Seahawks land...ask them how it feels to have just 1 big offseason need but NOT being able to address it because they're "too good to be sucky" but "too bad at QB to be a winner"...that's where this kind of draft "logic" leads to...just ask Seattle...wasting a 2nd on Whitehurst, FA money on Tarvaris, low/mid rounders etc etc...trying to get lucky at QB is far more risk (value AND time wasting) than gambling a 50/50 ticket on a 1st round QB
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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The Saints signed 27 year old Drew Brees as a free agent. Brees was coming off of a serious arm injury, and no one knew for certain when he would be back to 100% ..... if ever.
Kurt Warner was 28 or 29 in his 1st year of starting duty when thrown into the job.
The other QB on the Rams roster was their prized free agent signing, 30 year old Trent Green.
QBs are what they are, and if you can get 6-8 years out of one you are doing quite well ... especially if one happens to take you to a Super Bowl.
Hell, the Browns have been "back" for 13 seasons. We've had what ....... 11 .... 12 ...... 13 ..... 14 ..... 15 ... 16 ..... more(?) ........ counting injuries and ineffectiveness ......... different starting QBs over that timeframe?
I would gladly take an effective, quality, legitimate NFL QB for 6-8 years as opposed to the crap we've been fed at the position for the past decade plus. That would also allow us to actually develop a backup/future starter at the same time. Further, if we did that, we would than, possibly, be able to do what the patriots and other teams have done and trade a QB for big value.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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What Shaw fails to understand, Holmgren and Heckert do not have to justify their draft choices to Shaw or anyone else in the media.
Nope, they just have to win... soon. Because whether you want to admit it or not, the fan base is growing seriously tired of 4 win seasons, talking about the draft in September, shelling out cash to go watch totally uninspired football, etc..
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IF the price is right, trading down again, accumulating more of those 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks that can be used this year and in future drafts, might be the best move the Browns could make to fill as many of the remaining needs as they can.
If I was H&H I'd be looking at the calendar and wondering if I have another lack luster boring as hell 4 or 5 win season if I will even be here next year to worry about the great picks I've accumulated.
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Every year at this time, the media guys like Shaw, put on their draft guru hats and pretend they know how to run the Browns draft. Do the talking heads have the draft resources the Browns have...NO !!! But that does not stop the talking heads from making bold statements while they pretend they are the Browns GM.
If Bud Shaw, or you or me was in charge of the Browns draft, do you think we could have eeked out a winning percentage of 32.7% since our return?
They are always going to be second guessed, that's the nature of their job... but there is one way to put a lot of it to rest... win.
Bill Belichick could trade away 3 picks to move up in the first round and draft Danny Coale, WR/P out of Virginia Tech and the broadcasters would say something like, "I don't understand the pick but I'm sure the wiley ol' Belichick has something up his sleeve"... why? Because he wins. We could take Richardson, trade back up for the #2 WR, then take the 2nd or 3rd best OT in the second round and get, "Well this should improve them a little, but they still aren't going to contend."
If a regime, ANY regime, in this organization wants to say "We are the experts, you should trust us and our resources and knowledge" then they need to start winning some games... right now we look better on paper than we did a couple years ago... but we still won 4 games and that's the only number that matters in the long run. Go out and win 8 or 9 games this year and then they can have some legitimacy in saying they know what they are doing and they are building something sustainable.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Bill Belichick could trade away 3 picks to move up in the first round and draft Danny Coale, WR/P out of Virginia Tech and the broadcasters would say something like, "I don't understand the pick but I'm sure the wiley ol' Belichick has something up his sleeve"... why? Because he wins. We could take Richardson, trade back up for the #2 WR, then take the 2nd or 3rd best OT in the second round and get, "Well this should improve them a little, but they still aren't going to contend."
I'm going to go outside and cry in my car for a while.
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Legend
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dj...so now you are in love with Weeden and if you don't get your Weeden you are going to take your ball and go home.
Hey, maybe the Browns won't wait until next year to draft another QB...but, I see no reason for the Browns to feel any pressure from the media or fans to settle on questionable talent.
Weeden is a 28 yr old rookie who pursued a baseball career for 5 yrs and failed as a pitcher, quitting his sport of choice due to some serious shoulder issues. But some believe the Browns must draft a QB in this draft...or...or...or what?...the sky will fall?
This idea that the Browns must draft a QB this year or the team must win X number of games this year or Holmgren is gone...THAT is simply wishful thinking from some of the fans and media talking heads.
Some of our fans and media folks fail to realize, that the reason the Browns needed a total rebuild was because they never stuck with any one plan longer than 2 or 3 yrs, since the team returned in 1999.
Obviously, some would rather revert back to the very methods that made such a mess of this franchise over the last 13yrs...never giving a GM/HC and staff the time needed to build something that will last longer than one season.
If the Browns are willing to gamble on Weeden this year, believing he has the talent to be "the guy", great.
The way I understand Holmgren's rebuilding plan, it's a 5 yr rebuilding plan, not a 2 yr plan or a 3 yr plan. If the Browns want to bypass the remaining QB talent of the 2012 draft and begin to stockpile picks as trade ammunition so they can target one of the top QB in the 2013 draft...it's fine with me, because I know it's the smart thing to do, rather than gambling on second tier talent.
I'm on board for the rebuild and look forward to the finished product, which won't take the field until 2014...I can wait, can you?
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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We're not talking about a finished product mac .... just marginal improvement ...... and instead we've seen serious decline on offense. From where the offense started, that's damn hard to accomplish .... but we managed it last year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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This idea that the Browns must draft a QB this year or the team must win X number of games this year or Holmgren is gone...THAT is simply wishful thinking from some of the fans and media talking heads.
I talk to a lot of Browns fans down here and there is a level of apathy like I've never seen before. None of them want Holmgren gone... none of them want to sit through a 4 win, 13 ppg season again either.
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Some of our fans and media folks fail to realize, that the reason the Browns needed a total rebuild was because they never stuck with any one plan longer than 2 or 3 yrs, since the team returned in 1999.
We pretty much all realize that mac.. belive it or not, you are not the only person who sees the bigger picture.. but 3 years in and you should be seeing some improvement... it shouldn't take 5 years to go from worst to mediocre.
yebat' Putin
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I give up mac...it's like talking to a 5yo child  I'm probably one of the biggest backers of this regime around here, although I'm not 100% sold, so to deflect the discussion in this direction is useless Believe whatever you want...yeah, we stockpile picks to trade up to get 1 of the top 2 QBs next draft who would be 3rd to 5th this draft and we should not "waste" on the 3rd/4th QB this draft...makes perfect sense just keep ignoring that your "plan" already happened the past 12 months...it's like groundhog day or that dumb&dumber scene "so there is a chance" Always next draft...this draft didn't even start and people star planning for next draft...the RG3 trade shows that you can't plan, even roughly, next year's draft but it sounds good..."stockpiling picks"
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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yeah, we stockpile picks to trade up to get 1 of the top 2 QBs next draft who would be 3rd to 5th this draft
But things do change. People this year wanted to give up 3 firsts for a guy who, if he had come out last year, wouldn't have been close to the top 5 in RGIII... By this time next year there will be 2 other names being tossed around with Barkley and the ones we do know about...
I'm not opposed to waiting on the QB if the FO doesn't think the right guy is there. I don't want to reach and lose out on a talented player just to say we took a QB...
This team isn't good enough to be stockpiling picks, it needs to be stockpiling talent. If some of that talent is a QB, all the better, but we need talent at darn near every position.
yebat' Putin
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We're not talking about a finished product mac .... just marginal improvement ...... and instead we've seen serious decline on offense. From where the offense started, that's damn hard to accomplish .... but we managed it last year.
Are you talking about a "serious decline" on offense from Mangini's last year thru Shurmur's first year?
From one offenseive system to another...without training camp to install the new offense?
It would be hard to NOT have serious decline.
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That only works to a point.. BUT Didn't Dalton and Green have to learn a "new system" ? I'm sure it was just a bit different than their college days.
What we saw last year was more than just not knowing the system. It was low passes, high passes, behind the back passes, dropped balls that were right in the WR's hands, stupid lack of focus mistakes on all sides of the Ball. A lot of these were football 101 mistakes.
If your a corner.. you COVER a WR when he runs out instead of waiting for someone to tell you. You DON'T run out of bounds when you want to run down the clock, you don't throw the ball 10 yds out of bounds on a hail mary at the end of a half or game ! FIX THAT FIRST.
We looked like high school players half the time.. The "SYSTEM" had nothing to do with it.
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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I think you are correct on all counts....I also think...
AJ Green made a very pedestrian QB look good...along with two other solid WRs not named AJ Green and a damn good tight end.
We cut one starting WR in mid-season and our other starter played very sparingly...not to mention our practice-squad core of RBs...ER of TEs...and a Pashos/Hicks/Cousins turnstile.
Our circumstances are incomparable throughout the league...if not throughout history.
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That only works to a point.. BUT Didn't Dalton and Green have to learn a "new system" ? I'm sure it was just a bit different than their college days.
While this may be true, the rest of their team had been in the system already....big difference. The whole Brown's team changed systems on both sides of the ball. Dalton and Green did not have the same situation.
#gmstrong
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True.. But that doesn't explain the LOUSY execution of what they DID know. Sorry.. I ain't buyin "they didn't know the system well enough" theory to explain most of what we had to endure last year. And if it's THAT hard to execute properly then we don't need it.
Getting back to the thread subject... The best chance we have of getting a real stud is to NOT trade back yet again this year.. If I hear a " The Browns have just traded their number 4 pick and the ***** are now on the clock.. It better NOT be further than 7 or I'm gonna throw somin thru the TV" 
"Just gotta Coach em up" , "I thought they Battled" , " I need to watch the tape"
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Dalton also made the other starting WR look the best he has in his career, by far.
In 3 years, Simpson's "big year" was 277 yards. Yippee. This year he had 725 yards in receiving for the year. Gresham improved. Besides Green and the now departed Simpson, it's amazing how little established receiving talent that team has. What other players on their roster would anyone consider to be elite type players?
Green was great as a rookie, but not great enough to carry that team by himself. The QB did that job, while putting up better numbers than Carson Palmer did the year before.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Can you think of any reason why Simpson wasn't very productive before Dalton? Maybe because he was a third or 4th WR. TO and Chad Johnson were there and he didn't even see action in most games playing in only 11 games his first two years for a total of 21 receptions having only 1 his first year. You can't seriously discount what AJ Green did for Andy Dalton and even for Simpson. Greens ability to make any play in his zip code made teams roll extra coverage toward him. He did more for that offense than Dalton did and Andy is in heaven knowing he can just chuck it up and his guy goes and gets it. I couldn't even tell you if he ran good routes because it didn't matter. If you take AJ Green out of that offense and give him Brian Robiskie, the Cincinattii Bengals would be drafting Ryan Tannehill or Griffin this year.
Now that I think about it I think Simpson got his playing time as a result of TO getting injured. Think about it..Simpson got to learn from TO and Johnson for two years before being put in a position to contribute. Who did we have Brian Robiskie and MoMass with a rookie QB. If you know football or have watched Grudens QB school you understand how difficult it is to learn an offense, your personnel, the different languages. Now learn three totally different ones in three years and the most difficult one on a shortened offseason where you were not allowed access to the playbook up until shortly before camp. There is a reason why QBs want to use their own receivers for their throwing part of their Pro-Day. The timing and familiarity takes time and now throw in the fact that there was many other factors that have been through the mill. AJ Green eliminated that. IF you give McCoy AJ Green and Jerome Simpson and a Gresham and a consistent running game I am not sure we are having this discussion right now and Tannehill and Weeden or Griffin discussion wouldn't have consumed our board.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 04/16/12 11:55 PM.
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Yeah, he did hardly play.
Then he played last year.
Now he's a free agent, and there haven't been any reports of the Bengals even remotely trying to resign him that I've seen. His legal issues are now settled.
Still the team seems to have little interest in him.
If he was all that, then I would think that the team would be ready to bring him back now that his value has bottomed out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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His legal issues are now settled.
Still the team seems to have little interest in him.
If he was all that, then I would think that the team would be ready to bring him back now that his value has bottomed out.
YTown,
You are better than that.
Legal issues settled? Well...he's not going to prison...unless he screws up again.
BUT...the league has not yet weighed in on his punishment...and will he be one screw up away from a year suspension?
He has shown to be a guy prone to doing really, really stupid things. Maybe that's why they won't take a chance.
You can stand firm in your belief that Colt can absolutely never, ever, ever be the guy. You might be right...you might be wrong.
But to pretend that any other team overcame similar/worse circumstances than did the Browns last year is ridiculous.
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there are legal issues stemming from having some pot in the car.
then there are legal issues stemming from running a distribution center out of your house.
I do not think that NFL teams view these equally.
#gmstrong
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We're not talking about a finished product mac .... just marginal improvement ...... and instead we've seen serious decline on offense. From where the offense started, that's damn hard to accomplish .... but we managed it last year.
YT...I suggest you list the "reasons"...not excuses...but reasons why the Browns offense did not function to your expectations.
You have been told by many of the fans who post on this message board multiple times, those events that had a negative impact on the Browns offense. Let's see if you can recall those events/reasons.
The events I'm referring to started a year ago...that gives you a starting point.
BTW, the offense did not function to my expectations either, but I understand why?...lets see if you know why.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Legend
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We pretty much all realize that mac.. belive it or not, you are not the only person who sees the bigger picture.. but 3 years in and you should be seeing some improvement... it shouldn't take 5 years to go from worst to mediocre.
DC...so what are you going to do...QUIT NOW ?
Holmgren told everyone what his plan was...to rebuild the Browns primarily through the draft and it was going to take 5 yrs...and he did not promise X number wins in any specific year of the rebuild process.
Like it or not, Browns fans are going to be forced to "sacrifice" as we go through this rebuild process...we don't have but 3 choices...
...quit the Browns..become a fan of some other team
...support the rebuild project knowing it is going to be a tough pill to swallow in the short term, but will taste much better in the 5th, 6th and 7th years.
...or, cry and whine because the Browns lose more games than they win in 1st, 2nd and 3rd years of the rebuild process.
Those claiming there is not enough progress being shown...are not looking very hard.
If you can't see the improvement on defensive side of the ball, you need to see the eye doctor.
Years 1 and 2 focused on building the defensive base, drafting...
2010
1st rd...DB Joe Haden
2nd rd...S TJ Ward
2nd rd...RB Hardesty
3rd rd...QB McCoy
3rd rd...OG Lauvao
5th rd...DB Asante
6th rd...WR Mitchell
6th rd...DE Geathers
2011
1st rd...DL Taylor
2nd rd...DL Sheard
2nd rd...WR Little
4th rd...TE Cameron
4th rd...RB Marecic
5th rd...DB Skrine
5th rd...OL Pinkston
7th rd...DB Hagg
First, let's look at the philosophy of drafting DB, S and 2 DL...the NFL is becoming a pass happy league and if a teams pass defense is poor, the chances of winning games is slim. After the 2009 season, the Browns pass defense ranked 29th in the NFL..they were getting torched. Obviously, the Browns pass defense needed to be addressed, so Heckert made the pass defense a priority in the top of the 2010 draft.
Did the Browns draft strategy translate to the field?...with Haden and Ward contributing, the Browns pass defense improved to rank 18th in the NFL after the 2010 season.
But the a team's defensive backs can only cover for so long...the Browns defense ranked 25th in the NFL in sacks, meaning the Browns defense was not getting enough pressure on the QB. In the 2011 draft, continuing to focus on the defense and Heckert drafted Taylor and Sheard with his 1st and 2nd round picks, in an effort to help the defensive line. While the defense did improve in sacks marginally, the defense was putting more pressure on opponents QBs in 2011 as the pass defense ranking shot up to #2 in the NFL.
In two drafts, the Browns pass defense went from 29th in the NFL in 2009, to #2 in the NFL in 2011.
Three first round picks and a second round pick were spent on drafting defensive talent...DID IT PAY OFF?
The defense still has work to do as their rushing defense needs to improve. Coaching and more experience for our young defensive lineman and LBs will help the rush defense, but we could see the Browns address LB/DB with a later pick this year.
The Browns did not spend their top picks on the offensive side of the ball in the 2010 and 2011 draft. They did add some talent to the offensive side in the 2nd, 3rd and later rounds, but "CLEARLY", there are major needs on offense. I look for the Browns to draft offense in the next two drafts now that the base defense has been drafted.
The draft philosophy will flip flop, with the top picks going to fill offensive needs and the higher round picks used to fill in the defensive needs.
The Browns may not be able to land the quality of QB they are looking for in this draft, but there is nothing to stop the Browns from focusing on drafting a QB in next years draft.
Most are not going to like what I'm about to say, but right now, going into the 3rd year of the rebuilding process, winning is not as important as continuing the rebuild process which is based on drafting the best talent available to fill the team needs.
Just as trading down helped the Browns accumulate more picks for the 2012 draft, it would not surprise me a bit to see the Browns trade down again in this draft, accumulating picks to help fill needs in year 4 of the rebuilding process. It all depends on what is offered...
The winning will take care of itself as the rebuilding nears the end of the 5 yr process and the players gain experience.
Don't look for any miracles in the 2012 season, but in 2013, after the 4th draft of the rebuilding process is complete...that should be the year when the years of sacrfice start paying off, IMO.
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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We are more like in the 13th year of a rebuilding process. Some of us are tired of hearing the same thing year in and year out. Of course we are a bit leery to drink the kool-aide of every front office - they've all sucked. Those of us who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on this excuse of a football team want to see some improvement. SOME improvement - not superbowl contenders or anything, hell I'll take 7-9 at this point if most of the 7 wins are at home. I'd like to have fun AT a game, not just tailgating.
I'll agree that the defense did show improvement last year, no doubt. We now need playmakers on offense so I am hoping we don't trade down unless we think we can still get Richardson or Blackmon.
I'm not going to quit the Browns.
Of course I support the rebuild, though with much trepidation as my trust level of any front office is going to be very small until proven otherwise. Of course I will question moves that I don't agree with. If that makes me "whiny" then so be it. I am, and always will, love this football team.
You are whining just as much as those of us who are cautious about what this leadership team is doing, just on the other side - you want everyone to blindly follow H&H. Of course we really don't have a choice but to do so - but we can certainly question what they are doing. Isn't that the point of a message board? What fun would it be if everyone agreed?
#gmstrong
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We pretty much all realize that mac.. belive it or not, you are not the only person who sees the bigger picture.. but 3 years in and you should be seeing some improvement... it shouldn't take 5 years to go from worst to mediocre.
We are only 2 years in and really only 1 1/2 due to the Lockout. After this season we will be 3 years into the H&H era and 2 into the Shurmer. I constantly see accelerated growth charts and time stamps.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Legend
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Legend
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DC...so what are you going to do...QUIT NOW ?
No mac, I know you think you have cornered the market on what it means to be the ideal fan.. just like you have cornered the market on what it means to be an ideal American...
I've suffered through it for decades... excuse me for being less than optimistic that this time.. this one time.. after countless regime changes... that we have it right. Its kind of like deficit reduction... they can promise me the moon and the stars but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Holmgren told everyone what his plan was...to rebuild the Browns primarily through the draft and it was going to take 5 yrs...and he did not promise X number wins in any specific year of the rebuild process.
I'm not asking for a specific number of wins... I've thrown out numbers but those are just wishful thinking.. I just want to look like a competent NFL football team.. I don't want to be down by 6 in the 3rd quarter and feel the game is over because we can't score that many points in a quarter and half...
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we don't have but 3 choices...
...quit the Browns..become a fan of some other team
...support the rebuild project knowing it is going to be a tough pill to swallow in the short term, but will taste much better in the 5th, 6th and 7th years.
...or, cry and whine because the Browns lose more games than they win in 1st, 2nd and 3rd years of the rebuild process.
Again, it's not that they lose more than they win.. it's that they look absolutely pathetic doing it... if we were losing a bunch of competitive games 20-17, I might feel differently.. but we score 10 points a game.. and our defense looks decent right up until the other team actually NEEDS to score, then any competent offense does... almost at will.
As for the rest of your post, I didn't read it....
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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In two drafts, the Browns pass defense went from 29th in the NFL in 2009, to #2 in the NFL in 2011.
I think this is scewed a bit. We couldn't stop the run. We never had a lead. Why would any team even need to throw the ball against the browns. This is an overinflated stat.
...but yes, the defense is better. But it is not a #2 rated pass defense.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
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In two drafts, the Browns pass defense went from 29th in the NFL in 2009, to #2 in the NFL in 2011.
I think this is scewed a bit. We couldn't stop the run. We never had a lead. Why would any team even need to throw the ball against the browns. This is an overinflated stat.
...but yes, the defense is better. But it is not a #2 rated pass defense.
agreed. and anyone who saw the Tenn game should too. our pass defense was improved but we definitely had weak spots and it wasn't #2.
#gmstrong
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In two drafts, the Browns pass defense went from 29th in the NFL in 2009, to #2 in the NFL in 2011.
I think this is scewed a bit. We couldn't stop the run. We never had a lead. Why would any team even need to throw the ball against the browns. This is an overinflated stat.
...but yes, the defense is better. But it is not a #2 rated pass defense.
I think you mean skewed ..... then again, screwed works as well ...
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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And for those who hated on Fujita ...... our run defense got worse after he went out for the year. .......... (again) and it sucked to start with. I couldn't believe it until I went and looked it up for myself. Our defense is still pretty awful overall. We've got a few pieces, but we still need about 6 pieces before we can hope to have a truly good defense in all regards. That's just frontline players and a minimum of rotational players. In my estimation, overall we need: QB RB (2) TE* WR RT DE DT OLB OLB S CB I don't just mean some scrub we can plug in either .... these are positions with real, true need of at least an average player or quality rotational backup. * I don't see TE as a dire need this year or next, or even as a position that we need to spend a high pick on. We could probably fill the position with a free agent signing ..... if we ever signed anyone.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Legend
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Legend
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Why do you think we need two outside linebackers? Didn't Gocong play lights out once he switched sides?
Also, while Frostee Rucker is not a big name acquisition for us he will fill a role. He will play defensive end on running downs and on passing downs he will move inside.
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Legend
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Gocong did OK, but I still think that we need a nickel type OLB on sure passing downs.
Our run defense actually got worse after Fujita got hurt and Gocong switched sides. I know that it's almost impossible to believe, because I didn't either ..... until I went and looked it up for myself.
Fujita played 10 games last year. He did not play in the final 6.
We allowed and average of 147 yards/game rushing overall last year, and 4.4 yards/carry.
In our last 6 games we allowed:
Bengals: 132 yards rushing, 4.1 yards/carry
Baltimore: 290 yards rushing, 5.1 yards/carry
Pittsburgh: 147 yards rushing, 5.2 yards/carry
Arizona: 74 yards rushing, 3.1 yards/carry (our 1 good game)
Baltimore: 162 yards rushing, 4.4 yards/carry
Pittsburgh: 161 yards rushing, 4.5 yards/carry.
Our rush defense got worse after we lost Fujita. I know that's hard to believe ..... but it's right there in black and white.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Why do you think we need two outside linebackers? Didn't Gocong play lights out once he switched sides?
Also, while Frostee Rucker is not a big name acquisition for us he will fill a role. He will play defensive end on running downs and on passing downs he will move inside.
Y-Town seems to be in a talkative mood today,hell he even wasted time and energy with Mac,so here's the short unabridged answer;
"I don't just mean some scrub we can plug in either "
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Legend
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Legend
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Actually, I screwed up.
Fujita did play against the Bengals in the 1st game I listed there.
He sat out the game against the Seahags earlier in the year.
In that game, the Hags rushed for one 65 yards and 3.38 yards/carry.
Fujita did play in the game against the Texans. That was also a bad game.
The point is: in the 6 games Fujita missed, the Browns allowed 899 yards rushing, or 150 yards rushing per game.
In the 10 games Fujita played, the Browns allowed 147 yards rushing/game.
There was no improvement with Fujita out, and in fact we allowed very slightly more yards per game.
Gocong may have played better, but the defense as a whole was damn near the same (about 3 yards/game worse) against the run with Fujita out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 17,850 |
you listed the YPC numbers which are more important. basically, our run defense was overall about the same with or without Fujita.
now, the problem to me was that we were missing 2 things in our run defense.
1. DE - Sheard was great though got out of position at times at sealing the edge. The other side was a black hole. Hopefully, Rucker+Parker can be less of a black hole.
2. WOLB - Maiava was not very good. We need a speedy guy who can make plays and not miss tackles. I think if we replace Fujita with such a guy, then our run defense will be much, much better this year.
Not to mention I do not think anyone wants another year of watching Fujita try to cover TEs and RBs.
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RDE, WOLB, FS were horrid. Average at those positions would have given us a top 5 defense.
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Legend
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Legend
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I really want to throw CB2 in that group, but Sheldon was a step up from horrid. Let's call him below average (though his back-pedaling on runs to his side drive me bonkers).
#gmstrong
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Right, but having Rucker gives us a player who can play on all downs and give our big guys a rest. Sheard, Rubin/Taylor, Rucker, and Bernard on passing downs seems like a pretty good plan.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Right, but having Rucker gives us a player who can play on all downs and give our big guys a rest. Sheard, Rubin/Taylor, Rucker, and Bernard on passing downs seems like a pretty good plan.
i'm thinking the main plan is Juqua Parker as the passing down DE
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I don't know. Parker didn't play well last year and is old. Bernard can only rush the passer and is young.
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